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**Southern Red** · 21 January 2009, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post

First Strike was very heavy on the Shep/Weir angst. Not so much because Elizabeth was injured but because of the trust issue. It seemed that all these feelings were coming to the surface and I wonder if Elizabeth had stayed on what would have happened. How tptb would have handled it. I think it's definite that there would have been a lot of angst even with Elizabeth being there. But see it would have been different angst, it would have been relationship angst.

You read my mind. FS is just full of Sparky and not just because of the ending. I think if she had recovered fully, they would have had to deal with the trust thing again. The last conversation they ever had was stiff and just not them. John was clearly hurt by her attitude and so was she. That just built up the UST to me and then boom. *kicks TPTB*

**Scary Kitty** · 21 January 2009, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Reiko View Post

For some reason, I've always thought that Sparky would be best if it stayed the way it is in s1-s3 (from a more objective point of view) -- where they obviously like each other so it's an UST fest -- and not have them actually get together until near the end of the series because you're building it up a lot along the way. While C/T I can see as something that actually happens in the middle of the series (act of actually getting together) and is continued as something to the end.

What do you guys think?

Oh, I love that! Obviously, the UST would have to be done carefully, so that the audience doesn't feel like they're getting strung along (which is kinda what happened with Mulder/Scully in X-Files... they let the UST go on too long, and fans got pissed).

And though I don't ship them, I think C/T would've been wonderful to see. Episodes like Critical Mass give them this quiet, peaceful friendship that could so easily become something more. *sighs*

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Obviously the UST is what JF was hoping for. And yes, I agree. It would have been delicious to see things go along just like they were until the very end and then have them get together. Maybe just a real hug in the last ep and then get together for real in the movie. Wonderful. For UST to work they have to vary it, sometimes playful, then serious and for all of S1-3 they did a good job of that. Afterwards there was no where to go but angsty, and then thanks to JF it became even more obvious.

Oh, yes, yes, yes! And I think the movie format would've lent itself well to letting them finally have a real relationship, whereas it's much harder to try to maintain that kind of storyline 20 episodes a year, for however many seasons they might have gone.

Originally posted by justhere1971 View Post

I think JF did a fabulous job of displaying angst on screen after E was gone.
What do you think S4 would have been like if they'd continued with how they were progressing their relationship? Do you think once Elizabeth recovered w/o the nanites, John would have to build up her trust in him once more? In essence FS was a little about trust being broken between them. The absolute faith. Which if they had the smarts to continue on with would have been fantastic to watch on screen.

That would have kicked *ss! And having that falling out of trust, then having to rebuild it, all while Elizabeth is trying to pick up the pieces after her injuries, would've been a great way to keep the UST from getting stale for the audience.

**Erin87** · 21 January 2009, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Obviously the UST is what JF was hoping for. And yes, I agree. It would have been delicious to see things go along just like they were until the very end and then have them get together. Maybe just a real hug in the last ep and then get together for real in the movie. Wonderful. For UST to work they have to vary it, sometimes playful, then serious and for all of S1-3 they did a good job of that. Afterwards there was no where to go but angsty, and then thanks to JF it became even more obvious.

I so agree with this. *fights back tears and then shrieks*

That would have been wonderful and very delicious! I totally get the whole thing about maintaining the tension and everything, it does make for some great watching, but if you do that you need to PUT THEM TOGETHER IN THE END!!!

: TPTB apparently missed this important lesson when learning how to become tv writers. It's at least common courtesy after keeping people waiting all that time.
I agree with what has been said before, about not needing two whole seasons of them together as the happy little couple. All that is needed is for us to know it happened, and then maybe see a little bit of it (like was suggested) in the last episode and the movie.
And it would also have been nice, after they did get together, to have references back to them. Like in SGU or something they could have people talking and just mention in passing about how Colonel Sheppard and his wife did such and such. Just little references like that, to let you know that they're together and happy. Maybe mention a kid. *sighs wistfully* (kind of like what they did with Kanaan now that I think about it) (The author Tamora Pierce is a master of these references, of still letting you know what happens with previous main characters without having to have a whole story about them)

Wow, that was a lot.

**Reiko** · 21 January 2009, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

I'd have to go back and watch more C/T moments to decide what type of relationship they'd have. I think they wouldn't run into the hang-ups of a John/Elizabeth (balancing out their leadership duties would be a huge factor on a could-they or couldn't-they get together scale).

I don't think they would run into the hang-ups involving leadership of the city like Sparky does either, considering that if you're going to pursue any kind of romantic relationship on the show that they're all going to have their own special dynamic and style for whomever you pair up, and I would definately use a different style when doing John/Elizabeth than with Carson/Teyla. Which TPTB actually seemed to do.

You have to emphasize and focus on things differently when making different relationships; you can't just shove in a generic romance plotline because it's a drastically different formula for everyone.

Originally posted by justhere1971 View Post

Exactly! It was just there, teasing us. Which is always fun. They made progress with those two from S1-S3. There was a natural build up that translated onscreen. Not always the flirt, but the trust, friendship and generally liking one another.

This is why I really like Sparky -- in fact, I think I could say that I didn't care if TPTB didn't get them 'officially' together by the end, but just rather that is would always be there! And that they wouldn't be paired with any one else, of course. I love the friendship and the angst, the coleadership and especially when they work together to defeat whatever evil of the week presents itself in a given episode.

That is Sparky, that is fun and something I enjoyed seeing with little glimpes of UST.

And (surprisingly) even more, I never felt that TPTB were just stringing me along. I liked the way I was stringed along, there.

**Erin87** · 21 January 2009, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

You read my mind. FS is just full of Sparky and not just because of the ending. I think if she had recovered fully, they would have had to deal with the trust thing again. The last conversation they ever had was stiff and just not them. John was clearly hurt by her attitude and so was she. That just built up the UST to me and then boom. *kicks TPTB*

Agree again. (especially the kick

) It would have been very interesting to see how those issues with each other would have turned out. *sigh* If only, if only...

**lizabeth39** · 21 January 2009, 12:48 PM

good evening fellow sparkys and thanks for the welcome A irish coffee would go down a treat tonight its freezing. dont know if anyone has mentioned already but Torri has said on her my space blog that she is waiting to hear about an upcoming series for this summer. fingers crossed.

**Erin87** · 21 January 2009, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Reiko View Post

This is why I really like Sparky -- in fact, I think I could say that I didn't care if TPTB didn't get them 'officially' together by the end, but just rather that is would always be there! And that they wouldn't be paired with any one else, of course. I love the friendship and the angst, the coleadership and especially when they work together to defeat whatever evil of the week presents itself in a given episode.

That is Sparky, that is fun and something I enjoyed seeing with little glimpes of UST.

And (surprisingly) even more, I never felt that TPTB were just stringing me along. I liked the way I was stringed along, there.

You know, in spite of earlier rant on getting them together, I think I completely agree with this. I love all the same things you listed. I think I would have been okay with them continuing as they were. I think. Maybe.

Heh, you know I don't really know.

If I had to choose between the current situation and it being like it was before, I would definitely pick the latter, but... over time I think, with the rate their relationship was progressing, and depending on how long the show lasted, it would have been like 'come on, let them get together already!'
Or maybe just implied togetherness at the end. You never actually see it, but you figure there's no other way it could have turned out.

Ahh! *shakes head at self contradiction* I'll just stop now.

**Scary Kitty** · 21 January 2009, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by lizabeth39 View Post

good evening fellow sparkys and thanks for the welcome A irish coffee would go down a treat tonight its freezing. dont know if anyone has mentioned already but Torri has said on her my space blog that she is waiting to hear about an upcoming series for this summer. fingers crossed.

Torri has a blog on myspace? I hadn't heard about that. Could you post a link so we can check this out for ourselves?

**Scary Kitty** · 21 January 2009, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Erin87 View Post

You know, in spite of earlier rant on getting them together, I think I completely agree with this. I love all the same things you listed. I think I would have been okay with them continuing as they were. I think. Maybe.

Heh, you know I don't really know.

If I had to choose between the current situation and it being like it was before, I would definitely pick the latter, but... over time I think, with the rate their relationship was progressing, and depending on how long the show lasted, it would have been like 'come on, let them get together already!'
Or maybe just implied togetherness at the end. You never actually see it, but you figure there's no other way it could have turned out.

Ahh! *shakes head at self contradiction* I'll just stop now.

And that's really the thing I would be concerned about, is letting it go on for so long that the audience starts getting annoyed. Sooner or later, there has to be some resolution; a good writer would know how long they could go before needing to give the audience their payoff. Case in point: Babylon 5 and John Sheridan/Delenn of Minbar. The series was planned to only run for 5 years, and in that time, we saw Sheridan and Delenn meet, slowly fall in love, go through hell and back, and finally get married in the final season before heading off into the sunset. The audience got resolution and could walk away from the show satisfied.

In SGA, if they had kept Elizabeth on the show in Seasons 4 & 5, and then had a Season 6 as their final season to wrap things up, and we had seen a resolution for Sheppard/Weir at the end of that, even if it was just them finally saying that 'I love you' to each other (and leaving it open to seeing more in the movies) that would've been fine with me, and I think with a lot of us as well.

**Reiko** · 21 January 2009, 01:28 PM

I think we would only have issues with the situation mentioned above if TPTB had decided to make them even closer to romance than they were in seasons 1-3. If nothing changed and the romantic aspect of Sparky formula had stayed the same, I don't think I would have balked. But of course, everything has to progress at some point.

And then we have the issue that SGA PTB don't even know they're writing this ship. lol.

**KrisRussel** · 21 January 2009, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Okay, I mentioned a Sparky with Elizabeth off-world fic earlier, and here it is:

Easier to Hide, by Melyanna. A routine mission ends with a freak accident, leaving Elizabeth and John waiting for rescue. Intended to be read as a Season 4/5 AU or fix-it, written for the Sheppard/Weir ficathon.

Happy reading!

*is loving the fic*
Truly awesome and made my day.

**lizabeth39** · 21 January 2009, 01:53 PM

[QUOTE=Scary Kitty;9615448]Torri has a blog on myspace? I hadn't heard about that. Could you post a link so we can check this out for ourselves?

not sure about the link ,but its Torri Higginson myspace (people) Its the one with the picture of Sedge.

**Eri13** · 21 January 2009, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by lizabeth39 View Post

good evening fellow sparkys and thanks for the welcome A irish coffee would go down a treat tonight its freezing. dont know if anyone has mentioned already but Torri has said on her my space blog that she is waiting to hear about an upcoming series for this summer. fingers crossed.

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Torri has a blog on myspace? I hadn't heard about that. Could you post a link so we can check this out for ourselves?

The Myspace Blog I can't ever get an answer to--some people say it's hers, others say it isn't...

However, I believe Kavan Smith mentioned somewhere that he and Torri had both been in a pilot for a show and were waiting to see if it had been picked up. Perhaps this is the same show. *shrugs*

**yunadax** · 21 January 2009, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

Wow. The discussions of the day have been amazing. Don't take my not commenting as meaning anything. It's just that I couldn't really add anything of substance (esp to Eri's suggestions for s4/5/6). So on the less substance note:

Spoiler:

Holy Catmilk that was hilarious... couldn't help but giggle... slight problem being in the office at the time...

**justhere1971** · 21 January 2009, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post

First Strike was very heavy on the Shep/Weir angst. Not so much because Elizabeth was injured but because of the trust issue. It seemed that all these feelings were coming to the surface and I wonder if Elizabeth had stayed on what would have happened. How tptb would have handled it. I think it's definite that there would have been a lot of angst even with Elizabeth being there. But see it would have been different angst, it would have been relationship angst.

You just nailed it on the head. The amount of emotional flailing sparky style would have been a joy to watch. It would have been those subtle looks, the eye $ex, but not really $ex in that moment. The heat would be pouring out, and we'd been watching our screen go up in flames!

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

You read my mind. FS is just full of Sparky and not just because of the ending. I think if she had recovered fully, they would have had to deal with the trust thing again. The last conversation they ever had was stiff and just not them. John was clearly hurt by her attitude and so was she. That just built up the UST to me and then boom. *kicks TPTB*

Ah! I thought about that conversation so much. In someways it felt like a lover's tiff, but really they were disagreeing/arguing over something work related. That's why I thought about trust.

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Oh, I love that! Obviously, the UST would have to be done carefully, so that the audience doesn't feel like they're getting strung along (which is kinda what happened with Mulder/Scully in X-Files... they let the UST go on too long, and fans got pissed).

And though I don't ship them, I think C/T would've been wonderful to see. Episodes like Critical Mass give them this quiet, peaceful friendship that could so easily become something more. *sighs*

Oh, yes, yes, yes! And I think the movie format would've lent itself well to letting them finally have a real relationship, whereas it's much harder to try to maintain that kind of storyline 20 episodes a year, for however many seasons they might have gone.

That would have kicked *ss! And having that falling out of trust, then having to rebuild it, all while Elizabeth is trying to pick up the pieces after her injuries, would've been a great way to keep the UST from getting stale for the audience.

AGH! I was on that ship train for so long! I wanted to throttle CC. Then to see the kiss scene they actually filmed, just didn't put in the movie???? Makes me angry still.

You bring up a good point of Elizabeth trying to get better all the while rebuilding of their trust??? If we thought John has serious guilt issues, imagine the guilt he'd have felt then?

Originally posted by Reiko View Post

I don't think they would run into the hang-ups involving leadership of the city like Sparky does either, considering that if you're going to pursue any kind of romantic relationship on the show that they're all going to have their own special dynamic and style for whomever you pair up, and I would definately use a different style when doing John/Elizabeth than with Carson/Teyla. Which TPTB actually seemed to do.

You have to emphasize and focus on things differently when making different relationships; you can't just shove in a generic romance plotline because it's a drastically different formula for everyone.

This is why I really like Sparky -- in fact, I think I could say that I didn't care if TPTB didn't get them 'officially' together by the end, but just rather that is would always be there! And that they wouldn't be paired with any one else, of course. I love the friendship and the angst, the coleadership and especially when they work together to defeat whatever evil of the week presents itself in a given episode.

That is Sparky, that is fun and something I enjoyed seeing with little glimpes of UST.

And (surprisingly) even more, I never felt that TPTB were just stringing me along. I liked the way I was stringed along, there.

That team feeling that just the two of them brought to the screen was phenomenal. It was like them against the world on some episodes, and they conquered them all.

I also enjoyed the ride, never felt strung along ... not until after she was gone.

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