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    Echoes, part V

    As I said, Echoes is one of my favorites. I poke fun at the science moments because I'm no scientist--and because I don't really have any other criticisms of the story. I think it is an episode that was well-written, well done, and I enjoy every minute of it. Do I think it is one of the strongest episodes of the series? Probably not--from a developmental standpoint it doesn't have the impact of stuff like "The Eye" or "The Siege", or even, perhaps, "The Return", and I don't pretend it does. I think that's what makes it great for me. Despite not being incremental to S3 developments with Wraiths and Replicators, it's not a throwaway episode, a wasted span of 42 minutes where we have to suffer through stuff like Irresponsible, coming up. It has great character moments and interactions, humor, and even some pretty cool SFX and action. A perfect episode to lay back, enjoy, digest, and look forward to the next week.

    And one of the best things about it is the end. I think this has one of the tightest wrap-ups of the series. Three great scenes, both character-deep (or humorous) and completely significant.

    In the first, we get a chance for Torri to stretch her comedic wings, as Weir circles back to a humor device used earlier in the story, the inability to register volume control. Between her misinterpreting what John says, her own volume/expression, and the subsequent expression of John makes to Zelenka because of her, it's a great scene.





    The second wrap-up resolves the Ronon/Teyla connection. Feeling 'much better' Teyla has returned to meditating. Ronon, a poor student to begin with, is so glad to see her back he asks if he can try again. When Teyla chastizes him about falling asleep (that makes me giggle, too) he hands her a sword to beat him with.

    This is one of my all time favorite moments between any two characters. I think it's perfectly in character, adorable, and just a solid story moment. Thank you, Carl Binder, for understanding how people, actors and characters work.







    We wrap up with McShep, as Rodney bids goodbye to 'Sam.' It's a nice wrap up to an episode that is so packed with stuff--and a good John/Rodney moment as well. Or even just a Rodney moment.



    And so ends probably the longest recap I'll ever do!

    So what did you think? Do you share my enthusiasm? Or not? What criticisms of the story do you have? Or is it one where you pop it in when you need an SGA pick-me-up? Share your thoughts!
    Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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      Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
      So what did you think? Do you share my enthusiasm? Or not? What criticisms of the story do you have? Or is it one where you pop it in when you need an SGA pick-me-up? Share your thoughts!
      It's one of the 5 episodes that I would watch no matter what (yes, even Doppelganger but less) - I have Kate and that's all good for me. But less shallow maybe... I think Echoes is quite good because it's in Atlantis, and everyone (almost the whole of the expedition) is involved one way or another. They use all their characters somewhat equally. And that's what Atlantis is to me... It's not just about the team of four, but the team of expedition members.
      Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

      Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
        It's one of the 5 episodes that I would watch no matter what (yes, even Doppelganger but less) - I have Kate and that's all good for me. But less shallow maybe... I think Echoes is quite good because it's in Atlantis, and everyone (almost the whole of the expedition) is involved one way or another. They use all their characters somewhat equally. And that's what Atlantis is to me... It's not just about the team of four, but the team of expedition members.
        It was hard for me to pinpoint as I was going through it, but I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I love that everyone's in it. And they don't all have to steal the show, they can all be involved collectively and it makes for a great episode.
        Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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          Awwwwwwwwwwww thanks for the Recap Eri13!

          Echoes is most definately my favouritest ep (possibly equal with The Long Goodbye). Its a strong ep in all senses of the word, although there's a few WTF science moments (as you have mentioned).

          The other minor minor gripe I have.. since I have watched the scene WAY too many times... When John is carrying Elizabeth to the infirmary, anyone actually notice that she's hanging on?? Slight problem in that when you're unconscious, you don't hang on to the person carrying you.

          The humour in the ep is brilliant, from the hearing loss scenes to Rodneys fish/whale explanation (and Elizabeths comment 'how do you know he.. is a he?')

          All in all a brilliant ep... and a wonderful recap!

          Comment


            Originally posted by yunadax View Post
            When John is carrying Elizabeth to the infirmary, anyone actually notice that she's hanging on?? Slight problem in that when you're unconscious, you don't hang on to the person carrying you.
            I don't think the Sparkies see that in their Sparky-induced gaze... They are too busy squeeing their heads off.
            Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

            Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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              Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
              It's one of the 5 episodes that I would watch no matter what (yes, even Doppelganger but less) - I have Kate and that's all good for me. But less shallow maybe... I think Echoes is quite good because it's in Atlantis, and everyone (almost the whole of the expedition) is involved one way or another. They use all their characters somewhat equally. And that's what Atlantis is to me... It's not just about the team of four, but the team of expedition members.
              FH, I couldn't have said that better myself! Like you, 'team' means (to me) the expedition as a whole, not just one off-world crew. And this is an episode that really lets everyone on the team strut their stuff and show why they're in Atlantis.
              (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
              Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

              Comment


                Originally posted by yunadax View Post
                The other minor minor gripe I have.. since I have watched the scene WAY too many times... When John is carrying Elizabeth to the infirmary, anyone actually notice that she's hanging on?? Slight problem in that when you're unconscious, you don't hang on to the person carrying you.
                Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                I don't think the Sparkies see that in their Sparky-induced gaze... They are too busy squeeing their heads off.
                Heh. Hey, I saw it! I figured Torri was just trying to not be total dead weight for Joe to carry. After all, we don't know how many takes they had to shoot for that scene.
                (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                  And it would be more fun with John, Elizabeth and Rodney instead.
                  *whimpers* Ahh, that episode would have been sooo awesome if it had been the three of them!! *shrieks at potential and headdesk at stupid PTB*
                  You really shouldn't do that to people - way too many good ideas.

                  Originally posted by Irish Eyes View Post
                  Love it. What makes it really work for me is Atlantis is in it - their kingdom.
                  Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                  Nice way to show the UST
                  And I always love a balcony scene in a wp
                  Thank you so much!! *does happy dance*

                  Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                  Oh, they could have done so much with John's ATA-gene and the wonders that Atlantis held... *growls at writers* They seemed to forget about the awesomeness that is the city in the final two seasons... *growls again*
                  So true! There is way more left to explore in Atlantis! (I still think they need to find some sort of ZPM factory. After all, what did the Ancients do? Conjure them up out of thin air? They had to have made them somewhere! )

                  Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
                  i was just thinking they need to Promote Sheppard to Full Colonel. He deserves it.
                  Realistic or not, they definitely need to do that, maybe in the movie. He's saved Earth/Atlantis enough that he really does deserve it.

                  Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                  Enter Sparky--how we love thee. As soon as Rodney faints, Elizabeth's concern turns to 'John, John, John'. The feel of the interplay between them is core Sparky--that ability to think along the same lines--as with Elizabeth reading John's mind about the medical team. Great scene, all around.
                  *claps* Yay for Sparky concern and mind reading!

                  Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                  Yes! They've got this internationally-renowned diplomat/negotiator on the team... USE HER!

                  Damn, when I think what she could've done in Inquisition...
                  *shivers* Oooo... that would have been awesome! She would have torn them to shreds. Heh heh heh... they would have had no clue who they were dealing with. * grins and rubs hands together evilly*
                  sigpic
                  Lovely Sparkiness! ~*~ My: Fanfics - Vids ~*~

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                    Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                    Heh. Hey, I saw it! I figured Torri was just trying to not be total dead weight for Joe to carry. After all, we don't know how many takes they had to shoot for that scene.
                    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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                      Originally posted by yunadax View Post
                      The other minor minor gripe I have.. since I have watched the scene WAY too many times... When John is carrying Elizabeth to the infirmary, anyone actually notice that she's hanging on?? Slight problem in that when you're unconscious, you don't hang on to the person carrying you!
                      I was wondering if anyone would comment on that - it's always kind of thrown me out of the story for a moment. Not a major gripe, but yeah, if she were really unconscious, she wouldn't be holding onto his shoulder.

                      In fairness, this isn't the only show/movie I've seen make this mistake, but whenever I see it, it always makes me laugh.
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                        Originally posted by yunadax View Post
                        Awwwwwwwwwwww thanks for the Recap Eri13!

                        Echoes is most definately my favouritest ep (possibly equal with The Long Goodbye). Its a strong ep in all senses of the word, although there's a few WTF science moments (as you have mentioned).

                        The other minor minor gripe I have.. since I have watched the scene WAY too many times... When John is carrying Elizabeth to the infirmary, anyone actually notice that she's hanging on?? Slight problem in that when you're unconscious, you don't hang on to the person carrying you.

                        The humour in the ep is brilliant, from the hearing loss scenes to Rodneys fish/whale explanation (and Elizabeths comment 'how do you know he.. is a he?')

                        All in all a brilliant ep... and a wonderful recap!
                        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                        I don't think the Sparkies see that in their Sparky-induced gaze... They are too busy squeeing their heads off.
                        Yeah, me too. I should have mentioned that in the recap as well because it is kinda funny. I think Torri was so tall he had a hard time navigating the doorway without her helping in some way. She doesn't look heavy to him at all, but perhaps a bit unwieldy.

                        I'll edit that into the recap.
                        Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                          FH, I couldn't have said that better myself! Like you, 'team' means (to me) the expedition as a whole, not just one off-world crew. And this is an episode that really lets everyone on the team strut their stuff and show why they're in Atlantis.
                          I'm one of those people too who considers the team to encompass more people than just Sheppard's off-world team. Because that's more specific. Elizabeth directs the off-world team so even though she is not directly there with them, she is still an integral part.

                          This is why when people say "I want a team episode", they can't really do any team episodes because the whole team isn't even there. And actually, I don't mind if some episodes aren't 'team' episodes and only focus on one or two characters -- but only if time lost with the other characters is made up later in the season. bad ptb.

                          Which, I have to share this article, which states: "The exceptional acting and chemistry between the core cast, Joe Flanigan, Torri Higginson, David Hewlett, Rachel Luttrell, and Paul McGillion, made this show great ... Atlantis had the dynamics that are rarely seen between characters ... no matter what other factors went into the show, I believe we all would have continued watching just to see them!"

                          And then it goes on to say that how Elizabeth Weir's loss and the cast changes was the beginning of Atlantis' demise and how after the third season the show was ruined.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                            I don't think the Sparkies see that in their Sparky-induced gaze... They are too busy squeeing their heads off.
                            Ha! It's true! (at least in my case , even though I might have noticed it. *shrugs* It's an easy thing to ignore. )
                            -
                            And great recap Eri! Loved all the detail, and you drew attention to just the right scenes.
                            I definitely like this episode. It does have some great character moments (for everybody!) that I wish we had seen more of. Plus, lots of John and Elizabeth walking down hallways together and lots of glances (both concerned and not) and the *sigh* carrying scene. I also did like the Ronon/Teyla moments. I liked seeing a slightly different, more caring and at ease, side of Ronon and just how good a friends they are. The meditation scenes were great. (and this ep really showcases the potential they could have had as a couple, but, *shrugs* oh well)
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                            Lovely Sparkiness! ~*~ My: Fanfics - Vids ~*~

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                              I think Echoes is my favorite episode just because of all the many varied character interactions. Wonderful recap, Eri! Thank you.
                              Last edited by Killdeer; 28 January 2009, 02:37 PM.
                              - Life after Stargate -
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                                Sooo, recap time! Oh, and Eri? I was dying of laughter at all the various 'rules' of dramatic writing you were quoting. That was perfect!

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                And shippers? Take a number. There's really only one ship that gets somewhat poor treatment in this story, and I can bet most people in this thread won't complain. Plus, we get a brilliant scene that always makes our 'defining Sparky moments' list--and are we surprised? Of course not! Teleplay is, after all, by Carl Binder.
                                *snickers*

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%203/echoes0101.jpg
                                This expression is one of my all-time favorites.
                                Mine too. Rachel was hilarious here!

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                One of the things I like the most about Echoes is John's very carefree attitude. Binder (and Wright, who conceptualized the story alongside Binder) really let Joe have fun here. Some of his expressions and faces are hysterical. Like asking whether he could eat the fish.
                                Seriously, the first time I saw that bit, my reaction was, "Does the mess hall have enough butter for that fish?"

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                I do miss Kate, and I was sorry we didn't get to see more of the lovely Claire Rankin overall in Atlantis. She was featured in some of the best stories, and her role always fit. One of those characters always good to see.
                                *pets Kate* Episodes with Kate are always among my favorites. I guess it ties into my preference for 'team' episodes where 'team' means the expedition.

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                Did Torri seem extraordinarily TALL in this episode to anyone else?
                                I could be wrong, but I noticed that Torri tended to wear heeled boots with that outfit... that likely made her look a bit taller.

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%203/echoes0254.jpg
                                She honestly does shocked/scared out of her wits rather well. I kind of wanted to pat her on the shoulder. Or at least have John do it.
                                *smirks*

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                On DVD, the next scene feels a little hurried, but I supposed this is where commercial breaks make sense. We're back with Teyla, Weir and Heightmeyer, as Elizabeth explains that she's now seen the ghosts, too. One of the things I like about this scene is how Kate sorta implies that Elizabeth's making it up in her head, and, in my interpretation, Elizabeth knows exactly what she's implying and has this sort of irritated expression about it. Hey, Kate's the psychologist, that's what you pay her for, Lizzie!
                                Hah! Not so fun when the shoe's on the other foot, is it?

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                *snickers* I love the next few scenes. Call me a geek, I don't care--I think the shouting is absolutely hysterical. One of the best things about the shouting scenes is how it seems quite nearly impossible for the actors to get through it without smiling. God Bless Torri and Paul McGillion for however many takes they had to do. And David and Joe, too.

                                ...

                                Looking at things from a posting perspective, I guess I can find my love of Echoes in the fact that every single scene seems both important and good. Though it really serves no purpose other than to inform us Rodney's found a biolab, John's mocking him (loudly) is a favorite, too.
                                Definitely some of my favorite scenes. The part where John starts mocking Rodney's Canadian-ness was a scream! (no offense to any Canadians here, I just found it funny, is all )

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                Trouble is brewing--OSPL Rule #5: Always put someone in serious danger. The unfortunate representative victim is Teyla, who finally collapses from the effects of everything. *SHIPPER ALERT* We get more Spanky here. How did Ronon get there so fast?
                                Just as Elizabeth and John have Spidey Sense about each other, so too does Ronon have one for Teyla.

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                In other places on Atlantis, John and Rodney--after ANOTHER funny McShep moment--find the biolab. Meanwhile, Elizabeth is trying to call off Colonel Caldwell, who has arrived in orbit with the Daedalus. Good thing, too. What's up with Caldwell wanting to kill all the fish?
                                He's hungry and he heard Sheppard's earlier suggestion for a fish fry?

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                In the infirmary, a weakening Elizabeth (I give a shout out to Torri for playing Elizabeth as determined to stay strong, but delivering a fine performance where she is obviously growing weaker--she was one of the few to convey that sense) checks on Teyla. Carson advises that Teyla should leave, but in a plot contrivance to keep Teyla suffering more and provide some fabulous Spanky moments brave decision, Teyla opts to stay. Carson also begins to show signs of falling ill.
                                Yet another example of Torri's mad acting skillz (and why TPTW were idiots to waste that talent).

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                For Elizabeth fans, this is another great moment. Finally, after a hiatus of quite some time, we get to see her skills at interpreting Ancient again. FINALLY! I also like John's expression as he watches her work.

                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...echoes0606.jpg

                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...echoes0633.jpg

                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...echoes0634.jpg
                                He's kinda got a 'she's so smart!' look on his face.
                                Finally is right! And yes, I'd say this is proof positive that John thinks brainy women like Lizzie are hot.

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                SUPER Sketchy science moment #5: Um, anyone else believe all that stuff about the whales storing the trauma of a mass coronal ejection and the reactions of Atlantis to it into their genetic-memory because of Ancient whale-mimicry experimentation and then, 15,000 years later being able to project it into the minds of the humans via sonar and EMP fields?
                                Hell no. But once I got to the 'faint and carry' scene, I really didn't care.

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                *SHIPPER ALERT*

                                Spanky fans squee as Ronon shares a very tender moment with a continuously deteriorating Teyla. Anyone who was surprised at Ronon's tender moment with Weir in Adrift shouldn't have been. Jason Momoa can play Ronon surprisingly sweet, and Echoes is a good example of where he shone.
                                *sighs* That was wonderful. Also gives us a bit more of a glimpse of what Ronon's really like under all that rage and aloofness from 7 years of being a Runner. This must be what Melena saw in him.

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                All I can say about the scene where Rodney explains what exactly the CME is, which ends with Elizabeth collapsing, is an all-time fave. Part has to do with how everyone is acting--it has precision humor courtesy Zelenka and Rodney (minor Shipper alert there) and John's sort of tense, serious body language. And then there's Elizabeth, obviously suffering and yet doing her best to be attentive. I'll even forgive...

                                Sketchy Science moment #5: Um, isn't radiation sort like, not, you know, a thing you can keep out of an attenuated bubble? *shrugs*

                                Special shout out to the 'just like a pigeon' line. Brilliant. As was Joe's delivery.

                                If you don't watch that scene for the details (and what Sparky doesn't?) check it out again. 3 times during the scene, John glances or shifts in Elizabeth's direction in response to her speaking. He knows something's wrong. And his face when she collapses, well...that's our true Sparky moment.

                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...echoes0676.jpg

                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...echoes0689.jpg

                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...echoes0690.jpg

                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...echoes0691.jpg

                                *SHIPPER ALERT!*

                                Yes, it's bread and butter. Not just because it's a great scene for Sparkies, but because of all the reasons we can ask as to 'why?' In any case, John carries Elizabeth to the infirmary. That's all that needs to be said.

                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...echoes0692.jpg

                                http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...echoes0716.jpg
                                I saw it, I saw it! I squee a little louder every time he looks over at her, just knowing what's coming next. Heehee!

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                Sketchy Science Moment (and plot overlook moment) #6: Isn't taking the ZPM a BAD BAD BAD idea? I mean, if the plan doesn't work, doesn't that mean that Atlantis will get burned to a crisp?
                                Yup. Hope they packed their sunscreen!

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                The second wrap-up resolves the Ronon/Teyla connection. Feeling 'much better' Teyla has returned to meditating. Ronon, a poor student to begin with, is so glad to see her back he asks if he can try again. When Teyla chastizes him about falling asleep (that makes me giggle, too) he hands her a sword to beat him with.

                                This is one of my all time favorite moments between any two characters. I think it's perfectly in character, adorable, and just a solid story moment. Thank you, Carl Binder, for understanding how people, actors and characters work.
                                You know, I think I squealed just as much over that scene as I did over the Sparky 'faint and carry' scene. This scene with Ronon and Teyla was just sweet and funny and felt so perfectly natural for them.

                                Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                                So what did you think? Do you share my enthusiasm? Or not? What criticisms of the story do you have? Or is it one where you pop it in when you need an SGA pick-me-up? Share your thoughts!
                                Definitely one of my all time faves. When Season 3 was in syndication, I always made sure to tune in, because it was so much damn fun. And yes, I'll pop in my disc now just to relive the glory.
                                (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                                Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

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