Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[LiliJ]

Yeah I know. I agree with all your ship notes (I too loved the whole Liz and John alone thing... ). But I think it was just the writers giving us a little hook, and then forgetting all about it. It could have been anything, and I think that was the point. I hate that. In books (or films) if something like that happens there's always a reason and it's nearly always brought up or resolved later. All too often in TV shows it gets forgotten (think Desperate Housewives and its tangle of loose plot threads).

[gateraid]

Yeah I know. I agree with all your ship notes (I too loved the whole Liz and John alone thing... ). But I think it was just the writers giving us a little hook, and then forgetting all about it. It could have been anything, and I think that was the point. I hate that. In books (or films) if something like that happens there's always a reason and it's nearly always brought up or resolved later. All too often in TV shows it gets forgotten (think Desperate Housewives and its tangle of loose plot threads).

Akk!! I'm not a shipper, I swear

It's silly though. In any show, a scene that plays like that will be one that is touched upon (as in, previously on) at a later date if that ship goes ahead. Shep/Weir was never intended to be a ship, so why put the scene in there to begin with? Are we to believe that Shep had the hots for both Weir and Teyla at that point? It's hard not to get a mixed message, given that they gave us a giant Sheyla anvil not much prior to that with the cave scene

[Ruined_puzzle]

As much as I'd like to flat out say he was about to declare his deep & unyielding love for Elizabeth, its a bit too early for that. And yet it makes no sense otherwise. From a shipper perspective, Teyla was right there and so was Rodney, so if he had something of that nature to say to her, he could have just quietly done so.

They're only a couple of eps into their mission, so its not like he'd have any vital info to impart. He may have been about to suggest a replacement, but Elizabeth would most likely just nominate the next highest ranking officer (Ford at the time, unless they had any other secret officers somewhere).

But the scene at the end, in the infirmary, gives it a shippy overtone IMO. It's just dumb on TPTW's part. She asks him what he was going to say, he fobs her off, and then she waits til everyone leaves to question him. If it were a matter of business (eg I wanted you to abandon Atlantis & try to get home), he'd have said so right then and there. But they're giving each other sly looks & grinning from ear to ear.

As much as I love that scene (it's actually one of my faves), I do see it as rather pointless. I know when they're trying to foreshadow things; on a show like SGA foreshadowing is not done in a subtle manner, and yet I can't believe it was their intention to do so here. Did they not look at the dailys? Or the script for that matter?

IA.

38 Minutes made me a shipper. Up until that point I could not find anyone to ship Sheppard with, yes I was looking. I guess I just didn't pay attention to Elizabeth until 38 Minutes or the dynamic between John and Elizabeth. I blame this on my lack of interest in the show in general. Although it's strange to fall for a ship when more than half the episode they weren't with each other but the infirmary scene, I was WOE, there is some serious chemistry there. To me it seemed that tptb were trying out sparky and I was happy about it because I could not get into Sheyla or the show. Up until this episode I was just watching because there was nothing else on and Sheppard was pretty.

[gateraid]

IA.

38 Minutes made me a shipper. Up until that point I could not find anyone to ship Sheppard with, yes I was looking. I guess I just didn't pay attention to Elizabeth until 38 Minutes or the dynamic between John and Elizabeth. I blame this on my lack of interest in the show in general. Although it's strange to fall for a ship when more than half the episode they weren't with each other but the infirmary scene, I was WOE, there is some serious chemistry there. To me it seemed that tptb were trying out sparky and I was happy about it because I could not get into Sheyla or the show. Up until this episode I was just watching because there was nothing else on and Sheppard was pretty.

Test driving Sparky? *mind wanders into gutter*

Rising sold me on Shep & Weir as characters, mostly due to the balcony scene (there are so many great quotes from that scene), but 38 Minutes sold me as a sparky. Dammit, i never recovered from it

NB: I wasn't looking. I knew what they were trying to do with the cave scene, and the head scene at the end, but figured they would explore Sheyla in a few years time. That was relatively consistent (as much as tv people ever are) with their "there is no ship in SGA" policy. I assumed Shep would have random relationships throughout the course of the show (ala early O'Neill).But its hard to miss the 38 Minutes scene

[Ruined_puzzle]

Test driving Sparky? *mind wanders into gutter*

Rising sold me on Shep & Weir as characters, mostly due to the balcony scene (there are so many great quotes from that scene), but 38 Minutes sold me as a sparky. Dammit, i never recovered from it

NB: I wasn't looking. I knew what they were trying to do with the cave scene, and the head scene at the end, but figured they would explore Sheyla in a few years time. That was relatively consistent (as much as tv people ever are) with their "there is no ship in SGA" policy. I assumed Shep would have random relationships throughout the course of the show (ala early O'Neill).But its hard to miss the 38 Minutes scene

I didn't really pay attention to the episodes until 38 Minutes, I kind of watched while doing other things like being on the internet.

I knew that they were trying to do sheyla to, it was pretty obvious I just didn't buy it. It felt cold and basically rolled my eyes, I think the fact that they were shoving sheyla as the ship kind of put me off the show which is probably why I just didn't pay much attention. So when the Sheppard/Weir scene happened I went all wait....a minute I thought it was him and the other girl and then I was just confused. They really shouldn't have played with Sheppard/Weir if they weren't going to follow through. I hated that they did that because it gave me hope and got me actually interested in the show. I hate when shows play with ships, just pick one and go with it. SGA took too long to pick one, I say they finally decided on one when they got rid of Elizabeth and by that time fandom was split, even though Shep/Weir was more popular.

[gateraid]

You speak a lot of sense I can't really add to that.

Btw your sig is great. With that close up, I almost see Torri when I look at MM.

[Anuna]

I'll say it for the umpteenth time... I saw the chemistry in The Rising, when Elizabeth had the champagne bottle and looked up at John. Every interaction which followed just strengthened my impression. Yes I saw the cave scene but it was so forced when compared to natural chemistry between J and E (and until today J and T chemistry remains to be forced and unnatural). SGA couldn't pick ship, but the ship picked itself. Same thing happened with Ronon and Teyla in S2. Anything else was swimming against the stream. Right now the show is drowning. How ironic is that?

On Sheppard the sexist... I never saw him as one. I don't remeber sexist behavior on his part, and I'm pretty sensitized to that topic. Rodney is far more sexist than John. Writing John as incompetent sexist is OOC, and yes, what gateraid said about JM doing backstabs at JF - that crossed my mind too.

[Anuna]

Akk!! I'm not a shipper, I swear

It's silly though. In any show, a scene that plays like that will be one that is touched upon (as in, previously on) at a later date if that ship goes ahead. Shep/Weir was never intended to be a ship, so why put the scene in there to begin with? Are we to believe that Shep had the hots for both Weir and Teyla at that point? It's hard not to get a mixed message, given that they gave us a giant Sheyla anvil not much prior to that with the cave scene

I may have your answer: BAD. WRITING.

[gateraid]

I may have your answer: BAD. WRITING.

There really is no other conclusion is there? The "no ship" policy, while well intended, obviously created a few problems. Some writers write what could be interpreted as ship without realising, and actors create what could be interpreted as ship without realising. They should have said publicly "there's no ship" but privately "hey guys, this is the direction its gonna head, just be aware of that". Or Sheyla has no chemistry, but sparky has heaps, lets go with sparky

[Anuna]

There really is no other conclusion is there? The "no ship" policy, while well intended, obviously created a few problems. Some writers write what could be interpreted as ship without realising, and actors create what could be interpreted as ship without realising. They should have said publicly "there's no ship" but privately "hey guys, this is the direction its gonna head, just be aware of that". Or Sheyla has no chemistry, but sparky has heaps, lets go with sparky

You know, all of that is just too schizophrenic for me. (when you can't find a reasonable interpretation to 'reality' due to ambiguous stimuli, you're looking at possible psychosis). Which is why I see what I think is realistic and makes sense. To me it's sparky, if it were that other ship, I wouldn't post to this thread.

I think I should do one of my body language recaps soon, just to show sparky can be scientifically proven.

[gateraid]

You know, all of that is just too schizophrenic for me. (when you can't find a reasonable interpretation to 'reality' due to ambiguous stimuli, you're looking at possible psychosis). Which is why I see what I think is realistic and makes sense. To me it's sparky, if it were that other ship, I wouldn't post to this thread.

I think I should do one of my body language recaps soon, just to show sparky can be scientifically proven.

We are kinda making the same point though. Simply because the body language and the chemistry is so obvious, they (TPTW) should have made a conscious effort to avoid it, if there intention was to go the other way. Or reevaluated their ship of choice.

But we've said all this before.

And I do agree about the champagne scene & the wave, but until 38 Minutes I was ready to dismiss them

[gateraid]

For a change of pace (pics)

Spoiler:

E: Hmm. Not a bad kisser, and I do find beards 'interesting'

E: Somethings missing though, something intangible. That's it. There's no SPARK!!

Reiko's away, so I may be able to get away with this one

Spoiler:

E: I'm trying out a new look. What do you think of it?
C: I'm sorry. Did you just say something?

[muffinnuffin]

I'll say it for the umpteenth time... I saw the chemistry in The Rising, when Elizabeth had the champagne bottle and looked up at John. Every interaction which followed just strengthened my impression. Yes I saw the cave scene but it was so forced when compared to natural chemistry between J and E (and until today J and T chemistry remains to be forced and unnatural). SGA couldn't pick ship, but the ship picked itself. Same thing happened with Ronon and Teyla in S2. Anything else was swimming against the stream. Right now the show is drowning. How ironic is that?

On Sheppard the sexist... I never saw him as one. I don't remeber sexist behavior on his part, and I'm pretty sensitized to that topic. Rodney is far more sexist than John. Writing John as incompetent sexist is OOC, and yes, what gateraid said about JM doing backstabs at JF - that crossed my mind too.

Whats caused that to happen?? *is quite a way behind everything SGA wise...*

[gateraid]

Whats caused that to happen?? *is quite a way behind everything SGA wise...*

Normally FH has swooped in by now to field questions. My explanations are not so good.

It's all conjecture of course, but there was a period after PM & TH 'left' (let's leave that one aside) where JF stated at a few cons how he was upset with the changes. Since then the public relationship between JF & TPTW seems to have been less than ideal. One gets the impression he was told to pull his head in, but again, that's just speculation.

Couple that with comments on a certain PTW's blog about how much he 'loves' the new Keller character, including that because people dislike her we will now see more of her, and that we shouldn't complain that she gets screentime in favour of other actors (there's a train of thought that JS was hired not to replace PM but in fact TH).

Shep's not been written as consistently since the whole debacle started, and at times been made to look bad. Might be coincidence, or it might be a subtle form of payback.

One could also link that to Ronon/JM as well. He's made noises about leaving in the past (it's irrelevant now as the show has been cancelled) and comments about the quality of his storylines.

It's hard to really say what is going on at Bridge considering we only ever get a glimpse of things (and a warped one at that), but it seems like they're no longer the happy family that they once were.

[muffinnuffin]

Normally FH has swooped in by now to field questions. My explanations are not so good.

It's all conjecture of course, but there was a period after PM & TH 'left' (let's leave that one aside) where JF stated at a few cons how he was upset with the changes. Since then the public relationship between JF & TPTW seems to have been less than ideal. One gets the impression he was told to pull his head in, but again, that's just speculation.

Couple that with comments on a certain PTW's blog about how much he 'loves' the new Keller character, including that because people dislike her we will now see more of her, and that we shouldn't complain that she gets screentime in favour of other actors (there's a train of thought that JS was hired not to replace PM but in fact TH).

Shep's not been written as consistently since the whole debacle started, and at times been made to look bad. Might be coincidence, or it might be a subtle form of payback.

One could also link that to Ronon/JM as well. He's made noises about leaving in the past (it's irrelevant now as the show has been cancelled) and comments about the quality of his storylines.

It's hard to really say what is going on at Bridge considering we only ever get a glimpse of things (and a warped one at that), but it seems like they're no longer the happy family that they once were.

If what you've said is the case, Im quite upset. And thats just plain childish if thats whats been happening.

Its such as shame that the show is going out on a note like this... *goes and wallows in her West Wing fandom because she's so freaking upset that people can't play nicely together...*