Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[nogigglingmajor]

Speaking of being out of your comfort zone. Vegas spoilers

Spoiler:

Under what circumstances do you guys think Elizabeth would have joined the military? If she is the medic in Vegas, she must have had a different attitude toward the military depending on the circumstances in her life.
My idea is that maybe in the Vegas AU her dad was a war hero and she wanted to be like him. Maybe he A: died on the battlefield and she always thought about the medics who tried to save him or B: a medic saved him. Maybe in this AU her father is alive and well and she was dead. Anything is possible.

Spoiler:

I think if it was more of a 'if you can't beat em' join em'" but in the way that if she couldn't stop the military, she'd do her best to repair and help the reprecussions, that's what a medic does. IMHO I think it is very Elizabeth logic.

Love the pic spams and ep reviews! Keep em' coming!

[Eri13]

Good afternoon, Sparkies!

Damn Eri, you've been busy! Your recap for The Return is frakin' HUGE!

Quick question: Is anyone else having trouble getting on to Command Dynamics? I keep getting a 404 error.

Nyah, it was a two-fer, so two episode recap in one day. About the same amount of time, though.

I'm going to stretch out discussion a little next week, but not too much, because one of my all time favorite episodes is next--Echoes!

Thanks for all the nice comments, guys, both on and off the thread. I really enjoy doing the recaps, but it's a double treat to see others enjoy it, too.

[yunadax]

Woohoo! what a brilliant recap Ahh it brings back some good.. and some dodgy memories about the ep. Must go rewatch.....

[KrisRussel]

Erin13, I loved the recaps! And I've already commented on some... will do more commenting later ;^)

Scary Kitty, I'm also getting the 404 when going to CD

For people who are interested, I made my very first sig ever (I'm so proud of myself )
Lemme know your thoughts:

Spoiler:

[Reiko]

Return I and II YAY. As many problems there are with this episode, I enjoy it because it includes all of the main cast on a mission ... and that makes me very, very, happy.

Carson Visiting Elizabeth. Like I've said previously, I would have really wished that it was John who came and visit her, and I also have my speculation to why the writer of this episode decided not to. It would be too intimate. He comes to her door, she invites him in -- you know where it all goes from there. I was going to mention something that goes in line with this scene about Elizabeth seeming like an incompetent human being, but I'll leave that to Anuna since she made me consider that at first.

SG1 Crossovers. For the most part, I actually didn't mind it much here! I like the scenes at the SGC and the O'Neill and Woolsey banter is hilarious. But one gripe I have is that I thought O'Neill got way too big of a part in the underwater-diving sequence. I personally thought it would be better for John (Atlantis character) to do it.

The Carson/Rodney Scene. It may have been overdone. But I liked it. I think it was especially poignant the first time I watched it (and even now still), because I had Sunday on my mind and it made me want to chuck something at Rodney because he made Carson cry and I wnated to hug him. Which leads us to:

Rodney. I thought, like Eri said, Rodney was balanced nicely in this episode without being overdone: "smart, arrogant, cowardly, humorously, goofy, touching, emotional and confident." I like it.

Carson. I thought overall he could have been written way stronger in this episode. I thought he had a few OOC lines when visiting Elizabeth. *stink-eyes Marty G* But the turtles line is always memorable.

John. Before the dinner scene why is he being such an ass? Okay, why are they all acting OOC when they return to Earth, WTF. *flails*

Will do more later.

[yunadax]

Erin13, I loved the recaps! And I've already commented on some... will do more commenting later ;^)

Scary Kitty, I'm also getting the 404 when going to CD

For people who are interested, I made my very first sig ever (I'm so proud of myself )
Lemme know your thoughts:

Spoiler:

Woohooo nice siggy!! Well done

[Falcon Horus]

*appearing out of lurkerdom*

If there's one thing about The Return I & II that I don't like, it's the gazillion amount of continuity errors between different scenes.

I'm going to stretch out discussion a little next week, but not too much, because one of my all time favorite episodes is next--Echoes!

KATE!!! *runs around in circles, happy as a lemming*

*disappears in lurkerdom*

[KrisRussel]

Woohooo nice siggy!! Well done

Thank you!

[Scary Kitty]

So, The Return! A few of my favorite highlights:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%203/return1_0035.jpg
Entering the phase of 'Elizabeth looks AMAZING'. She really sizzles from about this point through the rest of Season 3

OMG, WORD! The second half of Season 3 saw Lizzie at her hottest. And isn't it funny that it's at the same time that John really started looking less like a cute boy and more like a MAN. *drools* Sparky hotness, on parade!

I think one of things that truly unsettles me about The Return is how, just when I get comfortable with the attitudes and story, is it slaps me in the face with a dose of post-season 3 reality. Like the image of Woolsey negotiating with the Ancients and the IOA's decision to have him serve as 'representative' for Earth on Atlantis. It makes for a super-fast forward moment to when Woolsey becomes head of Atlantis and Elizabeth really is no longer there. We get a number of those type of wake-up calls as The Return progresses.

I know what you mean; so many of the classic-era episodes now have this strange tang to them because of what comes in Seasons 4 and 5.

I also enjoy the relationship between Jack and Elizabeth. In the SG-1 stories that introduce Elizabeth, you don't get much of Jack and Elizabeth. I wish we had, because the chemistry between RDA and Torri is very strong. They play off each other well, but he has this way of treating her like a woman for whom he has both a profound respect and a friendly fondness. I like the way Elizabeth's character sort of elevates in his presence--with him, we suddenly get a glimpse of the woman chosen by the IOA to lead this expedition, and more importantly, we get a glimpse as to why. I think with our regular cast, we get used to her being 'leader' but take it for granted.

It's interesting in how it's a nice parallel with John, but with Jack and his longer history with the Stargate program, there's this great sense of depth, that it's about far more than just one city, one planet, and the responsibilities that puts on Elizabeth.

The march of the four back through the wormhole--with Elizabeth turning to glance up at the city with regret--is wonderfully parallel to the original scene of her coming through the wormhole in "Rising". This is one of those moments that is not just good, it's great.

And in a sense, it's paralleled again in Ghost in the Machine with Franibeth. But of course, that instance is far more bittersweet.

Getting on my high-horse for a moment--do I believe John would act like he doesn't care Elizabeth's been holed away from the world for six weeks? Not one bit. What more infuriating about the scene between, first, he and Rodney, and then the next, between Carson and Elizabeth, is his attitude. He talks with Rodney, who is genuinely concerned and missing his friends, like he's talking with a guy he sees everyday. Playing with toy plays and hanging up on him? Why is he so careless? Where's the guy who claimed, in Sateda, that Rodney, Elizabeth, Ronon, Teyla and Carson were his family and he'd do anything to protect them? Honestly, he deserves a big, fat *WHAP* for acting this way. /end rant.

Hand-in-hand with that is the scene with Elizabeth. While I think it is exactly befitting of Elizabeth's state of mind, and I enjoy Carson's presence here, I also don't believe he would be the first visiting. For me, personally, this scene felt like the writer (who happens to be Martin Gero) said 'I can't have John visit--that looks wayyyyy too intimate. Let's make it Carson instead.' In other words, these two scenes feel like they were designed this particular way to purposely downplay any shippiness or chance at shippiness. Like, they needed them in there to expound on the characters, but they tiptoed around what would directly make better sense and shoved some OOC moments on them.

Now, that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong--and playing devil's advocate, on the flip side, let me make this argument. Rodney has evolved as a character and a person in Atlantis--but he's not so much a part of that world that he can't recognize what the best part of being in Atlantis was--making friends. Elizabeth and John, however, are much more closely tied to Atlantis--essentially, their reconstructed lives centered around it, around each other, and around the duties there. When Atlantis is taken away from both of them, it's just too painful to re-establish those connections back on Earth. It would make sense for both John, who doesn't like to deal with emotions, and Elizabeth, who doesn't want to. Hence, seeing each other is just too hard, and too much for either of them. Both recognize it, so they go out of their way to avoid seeing one another. I suppose it could make sense.

If that's the case though, how is this scene--the next we see--so comfortable for both of them?

Though the reunion dinner features all four, I think very few would denies that there is a vibe that flows between the cut-aways of Sparky John and Elizabeth. Once they're back on screen together, that chemistry just hits you full force. Easy, comfortable, funny. Which is probably why the previous two scenes frustrate me so much.

If you have a different take on these three or four scenes, let me know, because I'd love to hear them!

Actually, I think you've nailed it on the head. The scenario you've described in the highlighted part is probably the most logical explanation any of us could come up with for John and Elizabeth's otherwise very OOC-ish behavior. But you're also right in that it still seems discordant with their 'normal' (for them, in other words, eye!sex) behavior at dinner. Maybe having Rodney and Carson there as a buffer helped them deal with it, maybe not.

And the writers (namely Gero) having ulterior motives to suppress a certain ship? Gee, who'd a thunk it?

We'll see more of these guys as we go on--but I have to say early--was there just no budget to call in at least one straightforward Replicator leader? I felt like, despite the Replicators being serious enemies, that we don't get any truly scary nanite guys here. Robert Davi did a great job of establishing Kolya in 2 episodes--was it not possible to do the same for a replicator leader (particularly if he could pop back up again?)

My guess is that they couldn't get David Ogden Stiers for this one; they seemed to have no trouble getting him for First Strike and Lifeline, so maybe it was a schedule conflict.

And here comes one of my favorite scenes, more particularly because it's an honest-to-goodness humor scene for Torri, along with a wonderful reparte between Weir and McKay. Plus, the absolutely adorable Bill Dow is thrown in to boot.

Slapstick is right, that scene was a scream!

Back in the Pegasus galaxy, on what we will assume will be called "New Athos" from now on, we find Ronon and Teyla (still attached at the hip) by happenstanceamacoinkidink chatting with one of my favorite characters, Genii leader Ladon Radim. Ah, sad we couldn't get more of Ladon, because I loved him. Am I mistaken, or is this his last appearance in SGA?

Yup, that was his last appearance. Damn shame, that. Ladon was such fun.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%203/return1_0745.jpg
One of my favorite pictures. What he's saying here? "I'll be damned if I'm gonna let a bunch of Replicators take our home away from us. So – you with us?" And Elizabeth smiles at him. In less than 100 posts, I'm going see if I can make it into an avatar.

DOOOO ITTTTT!!!!

The first being the dialogue between Woolsey and Jack, who are in hiding, trying to avoid the replicators. There are just too many good lines to quote here, of Jack chastizing Woolsey. But when I see Jack like this, it reminds me of the good ol' days, when I used to watch and love SG-1 faithfully.

Jack's back in his true element, in the field and kicking *ss. Loved it!

Phase II of Plan A then goes into effect--and it involves a blast from the past, as well as foreshadow to the future. I dislike anything replicator because of "Lifeline", but I really started to hate this scene--the same way I hate the end scene of "Progeny"--after "Ghost in the Machine". Those of you who have seen that episode know exactly why.

You and me both.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%203/return2_0117.jpg
Did you catch the Sparky moment in here? When Rodney snaps at Elizabeth about his being able to remember the plan because it was 'his plan', John retorts 'actually, using Niam was Elizabeth's plan'.

*snickers* I did!

Enter some of the best special effects on Atlantis at any point in time. These, for me, compare to some of the Siege CGI moments--what did you think? Or did you miss them as the action progressed?

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...turn2_0184.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...turn2_0194.jpg
Absolutely PHENOMENAL visuals

I always love seeing more details of the city up close; we hardly ever saw that, so scenes like this were a rare treat.

Now, I'm a bit of a realist, which is sort of an oxymoron for a sci-fi fan, I guess. But I do like to see things not be resolved non-obviously, and the fact that Jack just has the power to wave his hand and everyone--including John, who at this point has defied direct orders about 4 times and been officially fired twice--all get to go back without any repercussion seems a little sketchy to me. But I guess that's Atlantis for you.

He's Jack O'Neill. I guess when you've saved Earth that many times, you can do whatever you want and the IOA and the Pentagon will roll over and play dead for you.

Though Jack is about as awkward as John in the "Siege, III" the feel isn't the same. He has a resigned look on his face as she grabs him, like he was surprised, but not shocked. Elizabeth's look is one of joy, not relief--for obvious reasons, she's hugging him because she's happy to get the city back, not necessarily because Jack's alive. And yet, the overall effect is still not the same. John and Elizabeth are awkward, with this sense of 'uh, maybe we just crossed a line here and I'm not sure how I feel about this'. Jack's cute little smile following is not awkward, but amused and has no UST with this embrace. From top to bottom, this hug feels very friendly. Martin Gero, that is how two friends hug.

Hell yeah!

[Scary Kitty]

Erin13, I loved the recaps! And I've already commented on some... will do more commenting later ;^)

Scary Kitty, I'm also getting the 404 when going to CD

For people who are interested, I made my very first sig ever (I'm so proud of myself )
Lemme know your thoughts:

Spoiler:

*squee* Beautiful sig!

Still not getting CD to load... looks like the whole sheppardweir.com domain is offline. Hope it's only temporary.

[KrisRussel]

*squee* Beautiful sig!

Still not getting CD to load... looks like the whole sheppardweir.com domain is offline. Hope it's only temporary.

Thank you
I'm actually surprised it turned out fairly well for my first sig.

CD still won't load for me either
Hope it's temp too as my fics are on there and one of them is even 'most read'... would be a shame to lose that

[Erin87]

Thank you
I'm actually surprised it turned out fairly well for my first sig.

CD still won't load for me either
Hope it's temp too as my fics are on there and one of them is even 'most read'... would be a shame to lose that

I've had the same problem with CD. I hope it's temporary too. It would be really sad if it was gone for good.

And on another note, speaking of sigs (good job with yours by the way, it looks great ), I made one, but when I tried to upload it from my computer, it kept saying it was an invalid file. What exactly is a valid file? It wouldn't tell me. Please help!!

[Falcon Horus]

Command Dynamics

I just caught wind on my flist that the server of CD was hacked. The person in charge is in the process of fixing the problem, doing some recoding and something with back-ups.

It's all I know. Thought you guys might want to know.

[nogigglingmajor]

* runs in, panting* Command Dynamics is gone!!!!! Anyone know what's going on? An error page keeps coming up....and I want to read!

[Falcon Horus]

* runs in, panting* Command Dynamics is gone!!!!! Anyone know what's going on? An error page keeps coming up....and I want to read!

There would have been less panting if you had read my last post first.