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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Originally posted by Reiko View Post
    I liked season five. I think most people did. Are you sure you're not talking about season six because I didn't even finish that one.

    Or I have weird tastes.
    *headdesk* No, you're right, I did mean Season 6 instead of Season 5. I must've been thinking of how Season 5 of SGA sucked when I was writing that. My bad.
    (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
    Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
      Yes! All they had to do was come up with a great story that actually moved the character around on the playing board, instead of knocking her off altogether. They had all the pieces in place to do it, and then they forfeited the game right on the verge of having a checkmate.
      What's the fun in kicking her off the board all together, anyways. My only concern is the possible character assassination by S4 PTB. Can't decide which is worse. *weighs options*

      On another note.

      Spoiler:
      I wrote up a semi-big response in the Sheyla thread because I felt the need to speak up when they're dicussing us/our ship.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Reiko View Post
        What's the fun in kicking her off the board all together, anyways. My only concern is the possible character assassination by S4 PTB. Can't decide which is worse. *weighs options*
        Excellent point. From a storytelling standpoint, once you've killed off a character... well, you can't play with them any more. And that's just no fun. Yeah, one could make the argument, 'it's science fiction, they can come up with anything!', but then, look at how they tried to bring Carson back. I definitely wanted Carson back, but the clone idea was just plain idiotic.

        Originally posted by Reiko View Post
        On another note.

        Spoiler:
        I wrote up a big response in the Sheyla thread because I felt the need to speak up when they're dicussing us/our ship.
        *snickers* I'll take your word for it... I refuse to set foot in there.
        (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
        Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
          *flails*
          Spoiler:
          And that could've made for some potential great scenes with Carter and Weir... with Carter's own experiences at the 'tender mercy' of Fifth, she would be in a unique position to understand a bit better than most what happens when the Replicators screw with you. It sure would've given Amanda Tapping something more interesting to do than stand around as glorified set dressing!
          Totally. You could have had amazing interaction between Weir and Carter. I was always a fan of Carter, could you imagine the awesome?!

          Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
          Either of those options would've made for far more compelling storytelling than the eyerolling, juvenile shenanigans that we ended up with.
          Spoiler:
          Though I'd prefer option B, as we'd get to see Lizzie in the field a lot more.


          This? Made. Of. Win. I would've LOVED to see that!

          Yes! All they had to do was come up with a great story that actually moved the character around on the playing board, instead of knocking her off altogether. They had all the pieces in place to do it, and then they forfeited the game right on the verge of having a checkmate.
          The sad part? I came up with those in less than fifteen minutes, between multitasking 5 graphics projects and watching Inauguration news. How indescribably sad is it, that we can brainstorm stuff like that and others either can't or don't think that's a good idea?

          I can't speak on behalf of the fandom, but I don't think you would have had as many fans balk at those developments as you did when they cut her all together. Even some of the Weir naysayers may have been changed if her character had developed in those darker ways.
          Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

          Comment


            Originally posted by yunadax View Post
            Can someone tell me why I have a plot bunny nibbling my muse to write a john/elizabeth fic entailing fitness training, combat training and smut???

            Soooo don't have time to bash it out until the weekend....

            :: sigh ::
            *snickers* Sounds like it's time for some fic recs!

            Well, they don't have the smut, but they do have the fitness/combat training...

            Self Defense, by Sue Corkill. In the aftermath of 'The Eye,' Elizabeth discovers an unexpected vulnerability, and John helps her find a way to resolve it. Written for the 2005 Sheppard/Weir Ficathon on LJ.

            It's Always the Quiet Ones, by Domenika Marzione (aka miss_porcupine on LJ). Sheppard won the battle to get Elizabeth trained in self-defense. But he lost the war. Note: This author writes gen fics, so it's really Sparky friendship at most, but I've always enjoyed her take on the military side of Atlantis. All of her fics are well worth the read.

            Happy reading!
            (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
            Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
              Excellent point. From a storytelling standpoint, once you've killed off a character... well, you can't play with them any more. And that's just no fun. Yeah, one could make the argument, 'it's science fiction, they can come up with anything!', but then, look at how they tried to bring Carson back. I definitely wanted Carson back, but the clone idea was just plain idiotic.

              *snickers* I'll take your word for it... I refuse to set foot in there.
              Hee. Replacing someone with a clone is much more witty and intellegent, unless you're willing to get into philosophical issues about identity and whatnot. Which they didn't.

              Hee. I can be diplomatic when I want to. Not to mention I'm a sucker for character discussion.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                What's the fun in kicking her off the board all together, anyways. My only concern is the possible character assassination by S4 PTB. Can't decide which is worse. *weighs options*

                On another note.

                Spoiler:
                I wrote up a semi-big response in the Sheyla thread because I felt the need to speak up when they're dicussing us/our ship.
                I'm not anti-Sheyla...I'll leave them to their own discussions. Not everyone in that thread is exactly the same, and there are people who are cruel and people who are kind. Some who are accepting Sparky could have been but prefer Sheyla, some who are adamant that we over here are just dreaming. But in either case, that's their haven for their sentiments, so I'll let them to it.
                Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                  Totally. You could have had amazing interaction between Weir and Carter. I was always a fan of Carter, could you imagine the awesome?!
                  Hell yes, I can imagine it! It would've rocked harder than Ronon's fist hitting Todd in the jaw!

                  Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                  The sad part? I came up with those in less than fifteen minutes, between multitasking 5 graphics projects and watching Inauguration news. How indescribably sad is it, that we can brainstorm stuff like that and others either can't or don't think that's a good idea?
                  It IS sad. And I can definitely believe you came up with that in only 15 minutes; you should've seen me brainstorming stuff for my virtual Season 6 fic of doom in the shower!

                  Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                  I can't speak on behalf of the fandom, but I don't think you would have had as many fans balk at those developments as you did when they cut her all together. Even some of the Weir naysayers may have been changed if her character had developed in those darker ways.
                  I think so, too. Even a temporary dark turn for the character would've really put such a different spin on her that the naysayers would no longer have been able to claim that she was 'boring.'
                  (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                  Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                    I'm not anti-Sheyla...I'll leave them to their own discussions. Not everyone in that thread is exactly the same, and there are people who are cruel and people who are kind. Some who are accepting Sparky could have been but prefer Sheyla, some who are adamant that we over here are just dreaming. But in either case, that's their haven for their sentiments, so I'll let them to it.
                    I don't support John and Teyla as a couple, but I often enjoy reading discussions from various fangroups across the forum just to get a different viewpoints on things. People that generally upset me are set on ignore so I have no problems, but it's nice to see that we aren't the only people that dislike the writing-out of Elizabeth.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                      Hee. Replacing someone with a clone is much more witty and intellegent, unless you're willing to get into philosophical issues about identity and whatnot. Which they didn't.
                      Yup, TPTW have turned 'taking the easy way out' into an Olympic sport.

                      Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                      Hee. I can be diplomatic when I want to. Not to mention I'm a sucker for character discussion.
                      Hah!
                      (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                      Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                        I don't support John and Teyla as a couple, but I often enjoy reading discussions from various fangroups across the forum just to get a different viewpoints on things. People that generally upset me are set on ignore so I have no problems, but it's nice to see that we aren't the only people that dislike the writing-out of Elizabeth.
                        I've met a lot of very nice Sheyla supporters who really liked Elizabeth--just not with John (the largest sentiment is she was 'more like a sister').

                        While I don't see it that way, I certainly appreciated the fact that they, too, hated what happened to Elizabeth--just like I hated seeing Teyla pushed to the backburner.
                        Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

                        Comment


                          I waded through the thousands of SGA pics I have and apparently I don't have the funny fart pic... forgot to save it *headdesk*
                          And now they're not there anymore *sniffle*
                          Did anyone save the extra 'Duet' pictures that were on LJ a few days ago and could that someone please upload them somewhere so we can download them? Or put them all in a zip/rar... even easier to download

                          Sig by me

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                            I don't support John and Teyla as a couple, but I often enjoy reading discussions from various fangroups across the forum just to get a different viewpoints on things. People that generally upset me are set on ignore so I have no problems, but it's nice to see that we aren't the only people that dislike the writing-out of Elizabeth.
                            Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                            I've met a lot of very nice Sheyla supporters who really liked Elizabeth--just not with John (the largest sentiment is she was 'more like a sister').

                            While I don't see it that way, I certainly appreciated the fact that they, too, hated what happened to Elizabeth--just like I hated seeing Teyla pushed to the backburner.
                            *nods* I definitely agree... I've met lots of McSheppers who feel the same way in missing Elizabeth as well; quite a few of them see Elizabeth, John and Rodney as sort of the 'Three Musketeers' of Atlantis. And I'm glad there are Weir fans beyond the various Weir ships who've got our backs.
                            (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                            Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                              The way it could have gone? OMG, the possibilities that would/could have been AWESOME:

                              Spoiler:


                              First of course, is that things return to status quo

                              But if they wanted development, yikes...the stuff they could have done!

                              With Carter as head:

                              2) Elizabeth, being compromised by the nanites, is yanked by the IOA as head of Atlantis. A battle ensues between the IOA and the Atlantis expedition as to her fitness to lead and to stay behind. Carter is put in place as the interim head of Atlantis until the matter is sorted out. Among the storylines that could have drawn out this arc is Elizabeth being held in isolation while decision are made; the replicators figuring out about her nanites and attempting to take her over (*shivers* an Elizabeth who seems okay but is actually being controlled by an evil entity? Oh, the scarily good possibilities!); the alteration of the nanites within her by Rodney to be inert/okay (Um, this is Miller's crossing but with Elizabeth, not Jeannie); the use of her to destroy the last of the Asurans (think Lifeline, only with a good ending--combined into BAMSR).

                              How the story impacts S5:

                              a) She can eventually be restored to head of Atlantis--but her experience darkens her perceptions and makes her a fuller character. Elizabeth doesn't end up being 'the same', and maybe that becomes an issue for Sheppard, Rodney and others, as they see her do things she wouldn't normally do (a little rougher, a little harsher, maybe a little more brutal)

                              b) And if you want to bring in Woolsey--well, maybe the IOA insist she is too dangerous to be kept in charge--but the SGC, the President and her supporters reach a compromise to keep her on Atlantis, where she wants to be. John agrees to take personal charge of her and her actions, and she becomes a diplomat on an exploratory team. As she learns how to handle this (everything from military combat to figuring out how the balance of power works--after all, she was John's boss for 3 years, now he's hers--will make for a rather full season 5).

                              A darker route

                              3) If they want to make her more intriguing, another route is to have her appear after Lifeline as a threat. Make her show up as an enemy. I know that wasn't everybody's cup of tea, but I wouldn't have minded if it meant a season's worth of intrigue, and then redemption. So long as she was still there--and the John angst over her being in that position would have been phenomenal. Among other storylines is her being controlled by the nanites and the SGA expedition finding out about it; running into her in a confrontation situation where she tries to kill them; the eventual resolution that she has to be killed if they want to survive, and, then, the rescue/redemption, which might even mean a break by Rodney and John from the aim of the IOA/SGC in order to 'fix her'.

                              For Season 5, then, you have the same sort of evolution as the previous story--Elizabeth doubts herself, and the Expedition doubts her, too.

                              Those are only 2 of a multiple number of possibilities they could have done if they'd just thought about it! And understood what potential she could have had and what Torri could have done with it.

                              And, of course, we would have sat back and relished the Sparky that could have arisen, even if TPTB insisted there was NO romance.
                              OMG, that sounds completely awesome! I would do anything (within reason) to actually have that as the actual show. *shriek* It's so true, they had so much they could have worked with! Ah! *bangs head on something, completely distraught at cluelessness of TPTB*
                              That is the season 4/5 that should have been!
                              sigpic
                              Lovely Sparkiness! ~*~ My: Fanfics - Vids ~*~

                              Comment


                                Someone who I'll love forever (you know who you are). Send me the pic and I took the liberty to upload it to my Photobucket HERE
                                I mean what I said... look at Shep's face... it's like he's ashamed of something or atleast very uncomfortable about something and if you look at the faces of everyone around him, I am very sure he just farted...
                                Elizabeth is thinking: "I can't believe I'm sleeping with him while he smells like that when he farts." (that's just my shippy wishful thinking)
                                Carson is like: "Lad, really? Here, now and with that smell?"
                                The German scientist behind Shep is turning around, almost sniffing the air, thinking: 'What am I smelling?"
                                And the guy in the back doesn't look all that comfortable either... so yeah... my theory that Sheppard farted and it didn't smell all that good still stands

                                And after sprouting a theory like that, it's time for me to go to bed
                                See you all in the morning... and for people who don't want to open Photobucket, check the spoilerspace.

                                Spoiler:

                                Sig by me

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