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    Originally posted by Mandysg1
    I think with them coming close in Emancipation was enough, the emotions were there for everyone fearing it would happen. Not to mention I think the team was brought closer together without having to have a rape.
    i think from a writing standpoint, rape, along with alcoholism/drug dependency, mental illness, physical limitations (lost a limb or permanent limp, etc) can be very interesting for the actor to play and *very* interesting for the character in long terms. anything that 'permanently* effects the character has always been interesting to me. that's why when jack was tortured so badly by baal (HATED, HATED, HAAAATED abyss), at least i thought there'd be lasting reprocussions and we'd *see* this down the line for jack. when jack finally saw baal for the first time after his ordeal, we got zip! all that jack went through was white washed and nullified by a lack of showing the fallout.

    i've seen other shows handle this subject and completely and totally miss the mark. or miss the 'true' impact. some just do extreme stories (rape, toture, etc) for the shock value and then move on. i remember them handling rape on Hunter, where the lead female character (McCall) was raped. Very well done, not over done, and it had lasting reprocussions. I liked how they had Sela Ward's character on Sisters being an alcoholic. Again, well written with lasting reprocussions.

    I think amanda could have handled an extreme storyline (rape, toture, loss of limb) with dignity and respect to the storyline, even if the writing was less than serving to the subject.




    sally
    sally

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      Wow. I've gone ahead and activated my "ignore" feature for the second time, ever, on GW. But at least now I won't have a knot in my throat while I'm trying to visit my favorite thread anymore.

      Anyhow, on to more reasonable topics...

      Originally posted by ForeverSg1
      I'm not sure I could have handled seeing it on television. At least in a fic, it's only as bad as what I allow myself to conjure up in my own mind and if things get a little vivid in description I can always jump a few words here and there and still not miss too much of a story, but I think seeing Sam go through something like that would be much too painful. Abyss is one of my favorite episodes. I personally think it's one of the best performances MS and RDA have ever done on the show. I loved their scenes together, but even now after seeing the episodes literally dozens of times it really is very unsettling to me to watch Jack go through that kind of torture and seeing his mental strength slowly deteriorate. I'm not sure I could handle seeing the same time of thing with Sam, especially if it involved rape.
      I think, when it comes to sensitive issues like this, it's very difficult for television to do them justice and maintain the level of respect and insight that's required. Torture scenes (of any kind) are becoming almost "common practise" in action films and on television these days, to the point where I don't think a lot of due diligence is ultimately paid to the character-arcs that are affected by them (ie-> Ba'al and Jack, for example in the SG-1 universe).

      To watch them is very hard as well. I think, more especially, if they *are* written with care and respect. It's difficult to watch even an episode of (for example) Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, sometimes, because of what they deal with (subject-wise).

      But in the end, I think it's important that the medium (television) does, every once in a while, try to tackle the really dangerous, really difficult "stuff". That it's not just a pop-jumkie's paradise out there, and that the scary parts of reality do emerge, from time to time.

      Having said that, I'm not sure it would fit into the SG-1 universe, as it currently stands. I don't know that I'd trust the (current) creative writing team to pull off something that deep and that emotionally impactful without ending up on the wrong side of reasonable. Couple that with the fact that, when you feel an emotional attachment to a character (like Sam Carter), it's all the more difficult to watch that character go through hell, and I think I'd have to agree with Kat in that I'd find it very hard to watch, if it were Sam Carter and SG-1, on television. Reading is a lot different, as Kat also mentioned, you can skip over the parts that you can't cope with. Watching it ... a much more difficult thing to do.

      I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't want to "see it" on SG-1. I wouldn't want to see that happen to Sam. In a weird sort of way, the thought of that happening to her character in canon, makes me very edgy and uncomfortable.

      mini

      Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
      ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

      Comment


        Originally posted by Lightsabre
        Yes and I admitted it was. I also apologised for it, as I recognise that I was being judgemental, but that's the way I feel.
        I fail to see how a woman writing a rape story would write it well, but a man wouldn't.
        Before I address the rest of your completely out of line post, I will remind you that the question was "would you want a rape story on GW".
        I don't. So that's what I posted.
        You are the one who is dening me a)the right to express MY opinion
        and b)attacking and insulting me for holding said opinion.
        I did not say that no one could write or post a rape scenario, I said I would not like to read one.
        I also said I find the idea a little bit sick. You find it offensive that I find the idea of rape sickening?
        I said absoloutly nothing about writing being used as an outlet, but the cold hard fact is that even if the writer writes it as a release, they do not need to publish it.
        You call me cold and uninformed, assume I could not emphasise with the subject matter and tell me I have no concept of it.
        So let me ask you this, how do you know I'm not a survivor.
        Maybe you should let others have their opinions, rather than attacking and attempting to shout them down, when they disagree with you.
        Actually I believe the question was would you like to see a rape story involving Sam on Stargate. I'm not really sure it had any mention of fic stories. There are actually many fanfiction stories about Stargate that involve rape, surviving it and dealing with it's aftermath. Some have been very well written, others not so well. I don't think the idea of it happening is unrealistic. Sam is a woman walking through the Stargate to unexplored planets. Planets like the one we saw in Emancipation where women are considered as nothing more than a piece of property. The odds are in a real life situation, that if Sam had been captured and tortured on one of these planets then more than likely she would have been raped as well. Some people would enjoy seeing her deal with this sort of emotional and physical trauma... I'm not sure I could have dealt with it. That's not to say I don't think Amanda would have done an amazing job with the story, I'm just don't think it would have been something I'd be able to watch.

        Kat

        Comment


          Originally posted by ForeverSg1
          Totally agree with you... I've loved everything I've read by Strix.
          Thanks Kat and Mandy.

          I never wanted to write a non-con story, but the problem of how the guys might react to it just wouldn't let me go. To be honest, I don't know if any of it is realistic or not. And actually, this was just the first part of what started out to be a much, much longer story. See, Whiro (who is known for inspiring people to do evil deeds) actually turned Sam into a Za'tarc (which was why their escape was so easy, and she had the weird memory loss and... oh never mind)...

          My LJ

          Comment


            Originally posted by ForeverSg1
            Actually I believe the question was would you like to see a rape story involving Sam on Stargate.
            Yes, I can see I misread the question now. Thank you for pointing that out.
            However, I stand by my comments and I think they are even more valid when talking about the show, rather than a fan fic.

            Comment


              I don't know... I felt almost cheated in Emancipation when Sam seemed to escape completely unscathed. It's like they were afraid to hurt the woman. They showed her being threatened with lashing (which may or may not have actually occurred), and threatened with rape (which we were led to believe didn't occur), but they showed no physical or psychological effects of either. I thought the story would have been more powerful if they had.

              That said, I'm not sure I'd really want to see Sam get raped (in Emancipation or any other story). Tortured... yeah, maybe. What's good for the guys is good for her, too. It can make for powerful storytelling as Abyss demonstrated, but then again, so could rape. I do think it could be done well. I think it could be done horribly. I think showing it, and then dropping the experience entirely from the ongoing storyline would be an injustice to the character. But, I like Sam, so I guess I really wouldn't want something so horrible and potentially life-altering to happen to her on screen.

              It's late. I'm rambling. Forgive me.

              My LJ

              Comment


                So, how about those Steelers, eh? Anyone have some rain or snow they can send my way? It is so dry here my aquariums are evaporating by inches daily.

                Really. Must. Go to bed.

                My LJ

                Comment


                  I'm a bit iffy on rape fic. I don't usually read them because they tend to be poorly written or characterised. Well written ones do open up a whole lot of paths to be explored for the character. Strix's one is one of the few that I thought did a really good job on that.

                  Out of interest, Battlestar Galactica hasn't really held back any punches with this issue. They had the attempted rape of Sharon and a badly sexually/physically abused Gina. I was reading an interview with Grace Park (who plays Sharon) and she commented on how they originally filmed a full on rape scene, but the network execs freaked and had them edit it back to an attempted rape.
                  For an alarming and disturbing issue (something like 1 in 3 women in the world experience it?) it too often gets labelled as an unsuitable topic. But its a very real problem, and labelling it 'taboo' or 'too sick' for TV is probably not the right way to go about things.

                  As for showing it on Stargate, it probably won't happen. Stargate never attempts to rock the boat by exploring these kinds of issues - it's not that type of show. Also I don't think I'd want to have Sam have to experience that because, well its Sam
                  Though when you think about it, Sam has experienced it in a different form - Jolinar. While not a physical rape, it was a rape of Sam's mind.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Strix varia
                    I don't know... I felt almost cheated in Emancipation when Sam seemed to escape completely unscathed. It's like they were afraid to hurt the woman. They showed her being threatened with lashing (which may or may not have actually occurred), and threatened with rape (which we were led to believe didn't occur), but they showed no physical or psychological effects of either. I thought the story would have been more powerful if they had.

                    That said, I'm not sure I'd really want to see Sam get raped (in Emancipation or any other story). Tortured... yeah, maybe. What's good for the guys is good for her, too. It can make for powerful storytelling as Abyss demonstrated, but then again, so could rape. I do think it could be done well. I think it could be done horribly. I think showing it, and then dropping the experience entirely from the ongoing storyline would be an injustice to the character. But, I like Sam, so I guess I really wouldn't want something so horrible and potentially life-altering to happen to her on screen.

                    It's late. I'm rambling. Forgive me.
                    Yeah, I guess it comes down to the Network execs fearing it will come across as sexually explicit in all the wrong ways. It's why you don't generally see female characters on TV going through those stories. It's sad that it happens, and probably goes to show how big the problem actually is.

                    Comment


                      fic rec!

                      i'm reading Countdown to Sam's V-Card by Eliza. it's pure sam/jack smut.

                      here's the link: http://sjnc17.stargate-brats.net/viewstory.php?sid=1403



                      sally
                      sally

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                        Originally posted by majorsal
                        here's a question for you guys. (and a very top topic too)

                        would you have wanted to see a sam-rape story on stargate?

                        my answer: yes. BUT, *only* if it would have been written well (as in a woman writing it) AND it would have had reprocussions to it (as in following up that this event had lasting impressions). too many big things have happened to sam over time that have not been shown to have lasting impacts.

                        thoughts?




                        sally
                        That's an intriguing question. We've seen Sam suffer in the past because of Jolinar and Fifth. Her mind was raped in both of these cases.

                        As for a story of her actually being raped?

                        It might be really compelling to tell the truth because Sam is such a strong character, she has so many aspects of her world perfectly in place and is so contented...even after all that's happened to her. She's a brilliant scientist/strong soldier/leader. Even when the occasional disaster occurs, Sam Carter for the most part holds it together.

                        But for her to be violated so personally and so completely would be incredibly jarring to her perfectly ordered little world. She'd have so many issues to confront like why didn't her training and experience get her out of it? Did she do anything to bring it about? What does this mean for her now, both on SG-1 and personally ? Not just with friends but romantically? Whether she's with Jack or not (/me pulling for Jack.../me pulling for Jack.../me pulling for Jack), one would hope that she either is or will be in a fulfilling relationship with someone in the future...and this can't help but affect that.

                        If they did anything like this, it would have to have LASTING reprocussions...not just end at the 43 minute mark. She'd have to have issues with touching people again...especially men. She'd have to doubt herself and struggle to regain her sense of self and her confidence. She'd have to jump when Cam or Daniel or Teal'c tried to hug her and they'd have to struggle with the same issues as she (what could we have done to prevent this/did we fail her/how do we help her now) and continue through the reprocussions as her friends, not knowing what to say or do...not having the quick fix or the easy answers. And in time just the knowing that they're there for her helps her heal and slowly she returns to herself, deeping their friendships and bonds beyond the tightknit family it now is (or maybe not...maybe she gets closer to Daniel and for whatever reason, disengages from Mitchell)...but definitely have it impact the team dynamic strongly for good or bad or both. But she wouldn't completely be back to the old normal...that Carter is gone forever. This Carter, at least in the interim, jumps at the shadows dancing on the wall across from her window in the middle of the night.

                        If anyone could pull this off it's Amanda because she's, you know, AMANDA...and it would be such a meaty role and add oodles and gobs of character development as we see a NOT-in-control Sam NOT have the answers and NOT get better right away. But as time went on and she came to terms with what happened to her, she'd become even stronger than before, having lived through the worst.
                        Last edited by Uber; 26 January 2006, 10:07 PM.

                        ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

                        Comment


                          A plotline like that would be too jarring for the tone of Stargate.

                          I personally don't like to see rape as a convenient plotline. It should only ever be used to highlight the issues survivors face, and Stargate is not a show equipped to do that.


                          Originally posted by majorsal
                          i think from a writing standpoint, rape, along with alcoholism/drug dependency, mental illness, physical limitations (lost a limb or permanent limp, etc) can be very interesting for the actor to play and *very* interesting for the character in long terms. anything that 'permanently* effects the character has always been interesting to me. that's why when jack was tortured so badly by baal (HATED, HATED, HAAAATED abyss), at least i thought there'd be lasting reprocussions and we'd *see* this down the line for jack. when jack finally saw baal for the first time after his ordeal, we got zip! all that jack went through was white washed and nullified by a lack of showing the fallout.

                          i've seen other shows handle this subject and completely and totally miss the mark. or miss the 'true' impact. some just do extreme stories (rape, toture, etc) for the shock value and then move on. i remember them handling rape on Hunter, where the lead female character (McCall) was raped. Very well done, not over done, and it had lasting reprocussions. I liked how they had Sela Ward's character on Sisters being an alcoholic. Again, well written with lasting reprocussions.

                          I think amanda could have handled an extreme storyline (rape, toture, loss of limb) with dignity and respect to the storyline, even if the writing was less than serving to the subject.




                          sally
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                            As usual Mini, you've made my point for me far more eloquently.... we need to have discussions about shared brain time missy!

                            Just to throw a word of caution in here though, as subtley as I possibly can. I have a lot of experience with survivors and this issue through a website I run which by design and function is an outlet for survivors. This topic can take people to very painful places very quickly with the slightest lack of thought on someone's part. I can't not post this, and although I know Samanda is one of the most tolerant loving groups on the net, I still think it's worth saying. Real people's real feelings can be really hurt by words typed in a forum like this.

                            [/obligatory words of caution]

                            Originally posted by minigeek
                            Wow. I've gone ahead and activated my "ignore" feature for the second time, ever, on GW. But at least now I won't have a knot in my throat while I'm trying to visit my favorite thread anymore.

                            Anyhow, on to more reasonable topics...



                            I think, when it comes to sensitive issues like this, it's very difficult for television to do them justice and maintain the level of respect and insight that's required. Torture scenes (of any kind) are becoming almost "common practise" in action films and on television these days, to the point where I don't think a lot of due diligence is ultimately paid to the character-arcs that are affected by them (ie-> Ba'al and Jack, for example in the SG-1 universe).

                            To watch them is very hard as well. I think, more especially, if they *are* written with care and respect. It's difficult to watch even an episode of (for example) Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, sometimes, because of what they deal with (subject-wise).

                            But in the end, I think it's important that the medium (television) does, every once in a while, try to tackle the really dangerous, really difficult "stuff". That it's not just a pop-jumkie's paradise out there, and that the scary parts of reality do emerge, from time to time.

                            Having said that, I'm not sure it would fit into the SG-1 universe, as it currently stands. I don't know that I'd trust the (current) creative writing team to pull off something that deep and that emotionally impactful without ending up on the wrong side of reasonable. Couple that with the fact that, when you feel an emotional attachment to a character (like Sam Carter), it's all the more difficult to watch that character go through hell, and I think I'd have to agree with Kat in that I'd find it very hard to watch, if it were Sam Carter and SG-1, on television. Reading is a lot different, as Kat also mentioned, you can skip over the parts that you can't cope with. Watching it ... a much more difficult thing to do.

                            I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't want to "see it" on SG-1. I wouldn't want to see that happen to Sam. In a weird sort of way, the thought of that happening to her character in canon, makes me very edgy and uncomfortable.

                            mini
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              Myrth-
                              Here, Here that was extremely well said! I sometimes did wonder if Sam had gone through something pre-series, she was really defensive in the beginning and had strong reactions to many situations. But I maybe might impressing mine own feelings on her.
                              A life without ship is no life at all.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by majorsal
                                here's a question for you guys. (and a very top topic too)

                                would you have wanted to see a sam-rape story on stargate?

                                my answer: yes. BUT, *only* if it would have been written well (as in a woman writing it) AND it would have had reprocussions to it (as in following up that this event had lasting impressions). too many big things have happened to sam over time that have not been shown to have lasting impacts.

                                thoughts?




                                sally
                                I'd never be able to watch stargate again. Simple as that.
                                Yepp, it's blank down here.

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