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**AmberLM** · 21 July 2006, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by RepliCartertje

I would love to see the friendship she had with Janet again with Vala. I think that would be some great interaction.

I agree with you in principle, I would like to see Sam have a relationship like the one she had with Janet but I honestly don't see how Sam and Vala could ever be close friends unless Vala undergoes a personality transplant. They're just too different IMO. Then again, I guess time (and further S10 episodes) will tell, eh? I'd love to be proved wrong in my assumptions.

**RepliCartertje** · 21 July 2006, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by AmberLM

I agree with you in principle, I would like to see Sam have a relationship like the one she had with Janet but I honestly don't see how Sam and Vala could ever be close friends unless Vala undergoes a personality transplant. They're just too different IMO. Then again, I guess time (and further S10 episodes) will tell, eh? I'd love to be proved wrong in my assumptions.

OK at first I agree with you that they are way to different to become close friends, but keep in mind that Vala isn't Janet

spoiler season9:

Spoiler:

spoiler season9 and 10:

Spoiler:

and don't forget Vala isn't Janet at all, Vala and Sam will also never have the same interaction just because of the fact that they are that different

**AmberLM** · 21 July 2006, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by RepliCartertje

OK at first I agree with you that they are way to different to become close friends, but keep in mind that Vala isn't Janet

spoiler season9:

Spoiler:

spoiler season9 and 10:

Spoiler:

and don't forget Vala isn't Janet at all, Vala and Sam will also never have the same interaction just because of the fact that they are that different

You may be right and I'm just not seeing it. S10 Vala does seem a bit more toned down than S9 Vala but then again it's only been one episode and most of that she spent with Daniel. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.

**Skydiver** · 21 July 2006, 06:19 AM

we do know that amanda and claudia are going to aim for - as much as the boys allow - a peaceful coexistence. a bit of mutual respect although i doubt that they'll ever become close and personal friends

the crux will come in how much of what they're trying to do is allowed to exist. ultimate it's up to the editors (acting on direction from the director/producers...which in this case also happen to be the writers in many cases) and what stays in the show.

and we've also heard that at least one sam/vala friendship scene was cut for time

personally? i don't see them as fast friends either. I see a grudging respect growing. i see vala amused at sam's restraint and possibly yanking her chain as much as possible. but sam also has an evil side and i see her eventually indulging in that and putting vala back in her place.

i can also see sam being envious of vala's freedom to be, well free. envy mixed with incredulity at what she might be saying/doing.

it'll all depend on how toned down vala stays, or if she stays toned down.

vala of the first part of s9, the sex kitten???? i can see sam trading her with the closest village elder and oops, didn't she make it back????

in other words, sam would have little tolerance with the sex kitten. but if vala stays toned down and a bit more normal, then i think sam will eventually warm with her, but i just can't see a 'come stay at my place' closeness happening.

**RepliCartertje** · 21 July 2006, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Skydiver

we do know that amanda and claudia are going to aim for - as much as the boys allow - a peaceful coexistence. a bit of mutual respect although i doubt that they'll ever become close and personal friends

the crux will come in how much of what they're trying to do is allowed to exist. ultimate it's up to the editors (acting on direction from the director/producers...which in this case also happen to be the writers in many cases) and what stays in the show.

and we've also heard that at least one sam/vala friendship scene was cut for time

personally? i don't see them as fast friends either. I see a grudging respect growing. i see vala amused at sam's restraint and possibly yanking her chain as much as possible. but sam also has an evil side and i see her eventually indulging in that and putting vala back in her place.

i can also see sam being envious of vala's freedom to be, well free. envy mixed with incredulity at what she might be saying/doing.

it'll all depend on how toned down vala stays, or if she stays toned down.

vala of the first part of s9, the sex kitten???? i can see sam trading her with the closest village elder and oops, didn't she make it back????

in other words, sam would have little tolerance with the sex kitten. but if vala stays toned down and a bit more normal, then i think sam will eventually warm with her, but i just can't see a 'come stay at my place' closeness happening.

well you just nailed it and made me laugh! sex kitten??? nicely put I would say
But still I think you are right about it I think Sam would be a little jalous about Vala, but than again I think it could be the other way around to. I mean Vala does seem to be pleased with what she has but isn't that just a facade?? I mean Vala also sees what Sam and Teal'c and Daniel have from frienship, so she may be jalous on that
And who knows maybe Vala is also jalous on the fact that sam is so clever and wise. And that she can fix everything.
I mean they are really opossites of eachother but that doesn't mean that they can't be friends

**AmberLM** · 21 July 2006, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by RepliCartertje

I mean they are really opossites of each other but that doesn't mean that they can't be friends

True, I mean look at Jack and Daniel; talk about chalk and cheese! Well said, Skydiver, as long as sex kitten! Vala stays away I can see Sam being able to tolerate her. I'm dying to see Vala's reaction to meeting Jack (and vice versa) as well as Sam's reaction to the whole thing! There's a *lot* of potential for drama/humour/ship there!

**Tok'Ra Hostess** · 21 July 2006, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by Coley

I said in a post quite a while ago that I think a lot of the stalwart SG1 viewers are a niche audience. The show was different from all the other sci fi shows. It was here and now and potentially real. The characters were on the whole believable, and the Stargate is unique. The series was also largely based around a tightly focused unit of four which we all grew to love.

The show now has changed quite a lot. It has become more like a lot of other sci fi shows. The technology has advanced at such a rapid pace that it is far in advance of anything we have now, ships are used more and more - the Stargate less and less. The characters - at least the new ones - are less grounded in human reality, the team focus is lost and the remaining big 3 seem to have had their characters changed to suit the new beat of the show. The camera direction is more akin to a CSI show rather than plain straighforwar shooting.

So why would people watch Stargate over any other sci fi show now?

All the elements I loved about the show have gone, and I think a lot of the general viewers, that do not bother with fandom, liked the show for the same reasons I did. I have stopped watching, it will be much easier for less than stalwart fans to stop watching too.

Little Miss Positive butting in here to say that... sadly... ITA.

You've quite eloquently nailed it, for me, Coley.

The series was based in plausible aliens - parasites that act much like Earth-based parasites but taken to that SF extreme. It had Earth archeology that was exploited and expanded upon by the alien's thieving nature, as well as Earth cultures that managed to survive despite being exiled throughout the galaxy and forced into servitude. It was alwyas such a treat to be able to look up Hathor or Cronos on the web or to get more info about particle accelerators and wormholes.

Even the Asgard are a huge part of Earth lore and mythology. It had humans hopelessly technologically outclassed by their enemy, but who always managed to find some way to make a difference.

The Ancients made for interesting guest aliens, but their stories should not have been allowed to crowd out that of the "natural" aliens of the Stargate universe. Intelligent, all-powerful-but-petty floating lights - overdone and unremarkable.

Atlantis should have been the venue for the space ships and the far out aliens. It's in another galaxy, far, far away and so Ancients and Ori dukeing it out over there would have been acceptable, to me, but not on SG-1.

And while after season 3 or 4 I was never really that impressed with character interaction and the almost total lack of continuity when it came to repercussions, I have to say that it's gotten far worse, lately. The team gets "tortured" (Off the Grid) and instants after they are beamed up out of "danger"

they haven't got a scratch or a bruise on 'em. Same with Mitchel in the season opener:

Spoiler:

If they don't even care about these blatant things, how much less do they care about portraying how the characters are changed by their experiences over several episodes?

My family doesn't come onto the SG forums or websites - they never have, although they used to be enthusiastic about Stargate Night. All our SF-loving friends would come over, we'd have wings & chips and stuff and we'd sit around after, talking about the show. We haven't done that since season six. The kids don't like the show, anymore, and even the promise of snacks won't entice the neighbours to come see what's new in the series. They've lost interest, and because of the very things you pointed out in your post, Coley.

I'm still gonna hang in, there, because, well, I'm one of those stalwart fans that you mentioned, but....

Agh! I don't even know what the "but" is, but I'm gonna keep on watching. I'm just not in the mood to think up a reason why, right now.

**Tok'Ra Hostess** · 21 July 2006, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by SunKrux

What scenes from SG1 as Sam would you put on her demo/promo reel?

Definitely her comedy skills in Moebius.

Her action Sam skills as highlighted in Emancipation.

Entity - she did so much with so little.

**ShimmeringStar** · 21 July 2006, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by tsaxlady

Dean Devlin & Roland Emmerich bring up making another Stargate movie every few years. It is not a surprise Devlin made a comment about it again at Comic Con this year. MGM initally talked with them about the TV series after the first movie and one of the big issues was they did not want to film in Canada. About the same time Brad Wright and Jonathan Glassner talked to each other about the idea of doing a series losely based on the movie and when Devlin & Emmerich did not agree to MGM's terms Glassner and Wright were given the go ahead. D&E realize they missed the boat on a profitable series.

As for Amanda staying around for S10 - well if you saw the Urban Rush interview then you know even while they were filming S9 she was saying in interviews she was not sure she would stay for a S10 or beyond. I can't remember were I read the interview but she has said in an interview since they sarted filming S10 that if there was a S11 she would be around for it. The studio was smart in having everyone sign two year contracts this year for finacial reasons.

With early reports of last weeks rating it would be my guess that unless they improve or pre-sales of S9 DVD's being unusually high S10 will be it for the series. S1 - 8 have done very wel in DVD sales - often being in the top ten for DVD box set sales for weeks at a time. I wish I had hard data on numbers of DVD box set sales in the US alone because I have a feeling S9 will be less than any other season.

Amanda is a smart lady - she is already laying the ground work for what she will be doing once SG-1 ends. She made references to this at Shore Leave. She also knows the value of the SciFi fandom base and following she has at the current time. I would lay odds we will be seeing and hearing plenty about what she does after Stargate.

Would I love to see the series end strong and with the kind of characters and stories I feel in love with when I first started watch - YES. Do I think this is going to happen - No. We are only one episode into S10 and it was better than most of S9 IMO. But it still pales in comparsion to my favorite seasons 4 & 5.

Well I have rambled on far to long tonight - from San Diego I bid you a good night - I do hope tomorrow nights episode is a good one as I will be at Comic Con hopefully enjoying what I see on a big screen without commercials at Comic Con's SciFi Friday event.

(((tsaxlady))) Hope Comic Con is a blast.

*nods* I remember her SL statements too. It's too bad she can't share what her projects are, but I totally understand that it's not always such a good thing to show one's hand too early in the game and I'll patiently wait & wish her all the best.

I'd have loved the show going out strong and close to its original (TV) vision too, but.... oh well.

**Skydiver** · 21 July 2006, 08:05 AM

well, i didn't coin sex kitten. someone else did but i'm not sure if she wants to take credit for it or not.

in a way i think vala will be lonely. she will be the outsider. i'm jsut not sure how well these boys will play it. will they go for the subtle angst or the OTT hit you with a sledge hammer 'you're supposed to feel sorry for her' type of cliches

time will tell

**Gate gal** · 21 July 2006, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by AmberLM

Does anyone else think that TPTB should make more time to develop some friendships for Sam? With Janet gone and Jack in Washington, I'd like to see Sam interact on a comrade-like level with some military members of the Stargate Program. IMO her "friendship" with Cam seems a bit forced, it's like she can't really let her hair down with him for fear that he'll a) get the wrong idea, b) do something stupid while she's not looking or c) think less of her in some way. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to the development of a Sam/Emerson friendship.

BTW, I don't mean "ship" here, we've had *way* more than enough of that with various minor characters IMO! I just miss that side of Sam. All she seems to do lately is talk about work; it's like we've reversed back to 'Ascension' and her conversation with Jack about her being tense - "All work and no play makes Sam a dull girl" IMO! (BTW, I still love Sam, she's a wonderful character but I think we need more than just technobabble at this stage!)

In danger of making people angry with me, I still want to see a Sam/Vala friendship. The characters are very different, but they are both exhosts. It would be cool to see them bond over that. I also want to see Sam and Dr. Lam become friends. I agree that the Sam/Cameron thing looks forced. It is too bad they didn't take time to develop the friendship. I wish they would have been a little leery of each other at first then grown to respect each other or maybe given us a flashback scene to a time they served together in the past (maybe the gulf war). Their friendship just lacks credibility. It could have been pretty good written differently. (PTB, it isn't too late to give us some back story.)

**ShimmeringStar** · 21 July 2006, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Rachel500

I've kind of been reading along with interest on the ratings discussion.

If the ratings have taken the drop that's reported in the article posted then I do feel incredibly sorry for everyone who works on the show even TPTB. As BW said in his article, generally they're trying to make the best show possible and work incredibly hard to do it. As a writer, I know how disheartening it can be to work on something and for you to feel its great but when its read it gets less than a 'OMG that was brilliant' reaction. However just because your intention is to produce a great a show doesn't mean it will be perceived as such by your audience when it gets to the screen.

I can definitely "feel his pain" (to paraphrase Bill Clinton). I doubt there's a one of us who hasn't worked our tails off, fingers to the bone, or umpteen more hours than we should have to create something and then have others say "eh, okay, whatever." (Or worse yet - "OMG! That's a piece of ****!") True for everything we do, but especially if it's something in the visual or performing arts fields. Thankfully we're doing it for the intrinsic value (though making a living and critical success is wonderful when it happens). I appreciate Brad W. and don't doubt he's trying to do his best under the circumstances, especially being pulled between 2 series and especially with trying to weave any show *directions* that come down from corporate suits seamlessly into the show.

For me, it all comes down to the fact that there is a schism between TPTB and the fans (especially veteran fans who've been with the show a long time and make up the bulk of the audience) on the new 'vision' for the show since Season 9. It's not that fans cannot accept change, (as another Trek fan I'm with Astro, I sat through a number of changes in the Trek universe without throwing my toys out of the pram) but when change happens its got to be handled well. As RC said in a trade article, you have to respect what has come before and I think a lot of fans didn't feel that the writing in Season 9 did respect what had come before; especially for the older characters such as Sam.

If we take Sam's character as an example; it was, IMO, badly written in Season 9; the storylines whipped away her leadership of SG1, didn't promote her character or seem to remember her characterisation beyond science-geek, they didn't provide her with much beyond technobabble which every other character got to roll their eyes at or scenes with 'male friends' (what was all that about FCOL??). While there was some improvement at the end of the Season (the Scourge, for instance), it was too little, too late to redeem the situation within that Season.

While there is always a balancing act with 'servicing' characters and trying to ensure all main characters get a good storyline, the servicing in Season 9 was completely imbalanced in favour of the new characters - one of whom, Vala, who was only meant originally at least to be a temporary stop-gap for AT's maternity leave. So what was meant to be Sam's return story becomes Vala Saves the Galaxy story.

It's things like this that irritate the majority of veteran fans who are heavily invested in the old characters and tuning in primarily to see good stories showcasing the characters. I'm not against Mitchell being written as a hero (or Vala) but not at the expense of the old characters. I don't think it's incredibly difficult to give everyone their turn in the spotlight and there are a couple of epis in Season 9 that I do think get the balance right. I'm still hopeful about S10 despite the ratings drop for the Season premiere. If they can the balance back, fans may return and the ratings go back up.

But I do think TPTB need to take on board still that for those veteran fans that make up the bulk of the audience, this isn't Season 2 of a new show that we're getting to know; this is Season 10 of a much loved series. I have sympathy with the business decisions TPTB have to deal with. I think they wanted to have a new show having effectively 'finished' SG1 at the end of Season 8. In some ways, I would have been happy to see SG1 end at S8 despite my love for the show and to welcome a new show last Season with a different cast (with maybe one of the originals moving forward).

But it didn't end and the reality TPTB have to face is they don't have a new show, they have a hybrid show of the old and new. And for the bulk of the audience while we may in time come to love the 'new' right now its the older part that we love and which keeps us watching - characters like Sam.

I think it was Coop, or maybe one of the others?, that i read in at least 2, possibly 3 different interviews where they admitted that they (writers/directors) lobbied hard to have the series name changed so that it really would be a clean break. But it fell by the wayside as corporate needed the SG1 name to go on for at least one more season as SG1 (for the 'We broke X-files' record' distinction). So I can empthasize with being in their situation, having a history with these characters and the show and knowing full well that if they don't do as corporate wants to write arcs that play up *certain* aspects they're expendable...

It doesn't mean I like it though. But I'll keep watching, waiting to catch some of the spark that hooked me in the first place. Oh well.

BTW - Great post Rachel. Please keep posting.

**ShimmeringStar** · 21 July 2006, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Gate gal

In danger of making people angry with me, I still want to see a Sam/Vala friendship. The characters are very different, but they are both exhosts. It would be cool to see them bond over that. I also want to see Sam and Dr. Lam become friends. I agree that the Sam/Cameron thing looks forced. It is too bad they didn't take time to develop the friendship. I wish they would have been a little leery of each other at first then grown to respect each other or maybe given us a flashback scene to a time they served together in the past (maybe the gulf war). Their friendship just lacks credibility. It could have been pretty good written differently. (PTB, it isn't too late to give us some back story.)

Gg - you won't make us angry - eveyone's entitled to their opinions here. I'd like to see more trust-building scenes myself. Sam/Cam, Sam/Vala, Sam/Landry, etc. S9 had way too many eps that "told me" versus "showed me" these things. Like the Sam/Cam thing - I'd like to see where they develop a professional respect based on their skills that we get to actually see them using. *giggles* Right now I'm sure Sam's not "feeling it" for him... him having jeapordized their missions too many times since she returned and her having to perform cleanup after him.

But now that I think about it though - with ensemble shows, especially where there's a large number of lead characters, it's hard for them (writers/showrunners) to do justice to all of the relationships. Four leads was a great number for SG1 - there were a lot of team-based eps with general focus, there were some that focused on Sam or on the other characters, some on two of them, but it was so much easier back then for them to balance screentime/arc-time. Now, with 2 more leads to accomodate, there's so much less time... and what mention is made/interaction shown has to be really good quality or it's going to fall flat.

Here's to hoping for more time for building those relationships and maybe a wee bit less time for things that go boom.

**1speed4Sam** · 21 July 2006, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Tok'Ra Hostess

Little Miss Positive butting in here to say that... sadly... ITA.

You've quite eloquently nailed it, for me, Coley.

The series was based in plausible aliens - parasites that act much like Earth-based parasites but taken to that SF extreme. It had Earth archeology that was exploited and expanded upon by the alien's thieving nature, as well as Earth cultures that managed to survive despite being exiled throughout the galaxy and forced into servitude. It was alwyas such a treat to be able to look up Hathor or Cronos on the web or to get more info about particle accelerators and wormholes.

Even the Asgard are a huge part of Earth lore and mythology. It had humans hopelessly technologically outclassed by their enemy, but who always managed to find some way to make a difference.

The Ancients made for interesting guest aliens, but their stories should not have been allowed to crowd out that of the "natural" aliens of the Stargate universe. Intelligent, all-powerful-but-petty floating lights - overdone and unremarkable.

Atlantis should have been the venue for the space ships and the far out aliens. It's in another galaxy, far, far away and so Ancients and Ori dukeing it out over there would have been acceptable, to me, but not on SG-1.

And while after season 3 or 4 I was never really that impressed with character interaction and the almost total lack of continuity when it came to repercussions, I have to say that it's gotten far worse, lately. The team gets "tortured" (Off the Grid) and instants after they are beamed up out of "danger"

they haven't got a scratch or a bruise on 'em. Same with Mitchel in the season opener:

Spoiler:

If they don't even care about these blatant things, how much less do they care about portraying how the characters are changed by their experiences over several episodes?

My family doesn't come onto the SG forums or websites - they never have, although they used to be enthusiastic about Stargate Night. All our SF-loving friends would come over, we'd have wings & chips and stuff and we'd sit around after, talking about the show. We haven't done that since season six. The kids don't like the show, anymore, and even the promise of snacks won't entice the neighbours to come see what's new in the series. They've lost interest, and because of the very things you pointed out in your post, Coley.

I'm still gonna hang in, there, because, well, I'm one of those stalwart fans that you mentioned, but....

Agh! I don't even know what the "but" is, but I'm gonna keep on watching. I'm just not in the mood to think up a reason why, right now.

And you've quite eloquently nailed it for me, Tok'Ra Hostess.

Plausibilty - that was what struck me about SG-1 in the first place.

The whole concept was grounded in *today*, with normal, if abundantly talented, human beings (er, plus the occasional alien

) doing their best to understand and deal with things which were far beyond their ken and previous experiences.

Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough, but I simply have no interest in stories involving giant leaps into the future - to me, this just gives the writers carte blanche to make things as wild and wacky and far-out and implausible / unbelievable as they want (basically, to show off their powers of imagination).

Nope, just give me the good ol' SG-1, where it only took a minor suspension of disbelief to be right there in the thick of it with Our Heroes.

**ReganX** · 21 July 2006, 08:51 AM

If anybody is available to vote, Amanda could use some help.

http://www.celeeb.com/amanda-tapping/

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