Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Rachel500
    I've kind of been reading along with interest on the ratings discussion.

    If the ratings have taken the drop that's reported in the article posted then I do feel incredibly sorry for everyone who works on the show even TPTB. As BW said in his article, generally they're trying to make the best show possible and work incredibly hard to do it. As a writer, I know how disheartening it can be to work on something and for you to feel its great but when its read it gets less than a 'OMG that was brilliant' reaction. However just because your intention is to produce a great a show doesn't mean it will be perceived as such by your audience when it gets to the screen.

    For me, it all comes down to the fact that there is a schism between TPTB and the fans (especially veteran fans who've been with the show a long time and make up the bulk of the audience) on the new 'vision' for the show since Season 9. It's not that fans cannot accept change, (as another Trek fan I'm with Astro, I sat through a number of changes in the Trek universe without throwing my toys out of the pram) but when change happens its got to be handled well. As RC said in a trade article, you have to respect what has come before and I think a lot of fans didn't feel that the writing in Season 9 did respect what had come before; especially for the older characters such as Sam.

    If we take Sam's character as an example; it was, IMO, badly written in Season 9; the storylines whipped away her leadership of SG1, didn't promote her character or seem to remember her characterisation beyond science-geek, they didn't provide her with much beyond technobabble which every other character got to roll their eyes at or scenes with 'male friends' (what was all that about FCOL??). While there was some improvement at the end of the Season (the Scourge, for instance), it was too little, too late to redeem the situation within that Season.

    While there is always a balancing act with 'servicing' characters and trying to ensure all main characters get a good storyline, the servicing in Season 9 was completely imbalanced in favour of the new characters - one of whom, Vala, who was only meant originally at least to be a temporary stop-gap for AT's maternity leave. So what was meant to be Sam's return story becomes Vala Saves the Galaxy story.

    It's things like this that irritate the majority of veteran fans who are heavily invested in the old characters and tuning in primarily to see good stories showcasing the characters. I'm not against Mitchell being written as a hero (or Vala) but not at the expense of the old characters. I don't think it's incredibly difficult to give everyone their turn in the spotlight and there are a couple of epis in Season 9 that I do think get the balance right. I'm still hopeful about S10 despite the ratings drop for the Season premiere. If they can the balance back, fans may return and the ratings go back up.

    But I do think TPTB need to take on board still that for those veteran fans that make up the bulk of the audience, this isn't Season 2 of a new show that we're getting to know; this is Season 10 of a much loved series. I have sympathy with the business decisions TPTB have to deal with. I think they wanted to have a new show having effectively 'finished' SG1 at the end of Season 8. In some ways, I would have been happy to see SG1 end at S8 despite my love for the show and to welcome a new show last Season with a different cast (with maybe one of the originals moving forward).

    But it didn't end and the reality TPTB have to face is they don't have a new show, they have a hybrid show of the old and new. And for the bulk of the audience while we may in time come to love the 'new' right now its the older part that we love and which keeps us watching - characters like Sam.
    Rachel, this is an excellent post - just like your fanfics! Wow!

    Comment


      Originally posted by AmberLM
      Does anyone else think that TPTB should make more time to develop some friendships for Sam? With Janet gone and Jack in Washington, I'd like to see Sam interact on a comrade-like level with some military members of the Stargate Program. IMO her "friendship" with Cam seems a bit forced, it's like she can't really let her hair down with him for fear that he'll a) get the wrong idea, b) do something stupid while she's not looking or c) think less of her in some way. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to the development of a Sam/Emerson friendship.

      BTW, I don't mean "ship" here, we've had *way* more than enough of that with various minor characters IMO! I just miss that side of Sam. All she seems to do lately is talk about work; it's like we've reversed back to 'Ascension' and her conversation with Jack about her being tense - "All work and no play makes Sam a dull girl" IMO! (BTW, I still love Sam, she's a wonderful character but I think we need more than just technobabble at this stage!)
      I agree, Amber, Sam shouldn't be just the tecnhobabbling geek that everyone either ignores or makes fun of. She used to to be a rich character of many talents... Season 9 'flattened' her character considerably. There have also been too many Sam-goes-'duh' moments (as someone posted yesterday); moments where Sam is just 'left behind' mentally by events. Rachel used the term balance, and that's what's needed. Balance. Uber's mentioned it in past posts, and so have I, and so have others. Balance. Too much of anything doesn't work. Balance means utilizing different facets of the same character - not just focusing on one characteristic and cartooning things.

      Comment


        Does anyone know where to find the Season-by-season Nielsen ratings averages for Stargate SG-1? (that is, what was the Nielsen ratings average for Season 1, Season 2, etc.). I'd like to see a graph of those numbers...

        Comment


          Originally posted by Skydiver
          well, i didn't coin sex kitten. someone else did but i'm not sure if she wants to take credit for it or not.
          Whatcha talkin' bout Skydiver? I can't actually lay claim to it. I might have been the first one on this thread to coin it (and I used it *gasp* first in the Vala/Claudia thread. Imagine the reaction there! ). That's how I saw Vala of S9. She wasn't that bad in "Promethous Unbound" she was a little sexual in that eps, but nothing like she was in most of S9.

          I don't think Vala is being rude to be rude...she (like Teal'C at first) doesn't get Earth customs and she's that kid/person (I know a few adults in rl who are like this to a point) who says what everyone else is thinking. That and her not so obvious guilt over what the Goua'ld (sp? sue me. :-p) did while she was the host are the things I like most about Vala.

          in a way i think vala will be lonely. she will be the outsider. i'm jsut not sure how well these boys will play it. will they go for the subtle angst or the OTT hit you with a sledge hammer 'you're supposed to feel sorry for her' type of cliches

          time will tell
          Yeah, she will be the outsider until someone cool, like SAM, takes the time to get to know her. I have no doubt that Amanda and Claudia will make what little time they get to show that the two will be friends. Some of you would be surprised by the "opposites attracts" friendships I have. Yes, some of those friends (and I imagine I do it as well) annoy the hell out of me, but they are some of my best friends and I wouldn't trade them for the world. I can see that happening with Sam. No, it won't be like the friendship Sam had with Janet, because Janet and Vala are not the same, but the friendship could be just as fulfulling and rewarding for both Sam and Vala.
          sigpic
          I prefer to be called Sunny, Sun or SK. Thanks.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Gate gal
            In danger of making people angry with me, I still want to see a Sam/Vala friendship. The characters are very different, but they are both exhosts. It would be cool to see them bond over that. I also want to see Sam and Dr. Lam become friends. I agree that the Sam/Cameron thing looks forced. It is too bad they didn't take time to develop the friendship. I wish they would have been a little leery of each other at first then grown to respect each other or maybe given us a flashback scene to a time they served together in the past (maybe the gulf war). Their friendship just lacks credibility. It could have been pretty good written differently. (PTB, it isn't too late to give us some back story.)
            Well if anyone gets angry with you over this...come sit with me and we'll cheer loudly and annoyingly for the Sam/Vala friendship.

            Then I'll toss some waterballoons at them for being meanies.
            sigpic
            I prefer to be called Sunny, Sun or SK. Thanks.

            Comment


              Originally posted by SunKrux
              Well if anyone gets angry with you over this...come sit with me and we'll cheer loudly and annoyingly for the Sam/Vala friendship.

              Then I'll toss some waterballoons at them for being meanies.
              I think there are quite a few of us who'd want a grounded and realistic, yet unpredictable and fun "Odd Couple"-esque relationship between the two. Both women have excelled in what appears to be a male-dominated... er... galaxy. They've both been "the girl" on SG-1, and I'd imagine they share a few thoughts about that dynamic - and about the guys, as well.

              If it were sugary-sweet right off the bat, I wouldn't buy it. However, I think these two actors have the ability and the talent to play a very complex relationship between the two characters.

              It's a shame it may never be pursue with actual lines and scenes. But I'm still hoping to catch something - even if it means that the editors have left a glance or two between them somewhere along the line.

              Comment


                Originally posted by the dancer of spaz
                I think there are quite a few of us who'd want a grounded and realistic, yet unpredictable and fun "Odd Couple"-esque relationship between the two. Both women have excelled in what appears to be a male-dominated... er... galaxy. They've both been "the girl" on SG-1, and I'd imagine they share a few thoughts about that dynamic - and about the guys, as well.

                If it were sugary-sweet right off the bat, I wouldn't buy it. However, I think these two actors have the ability and the talent to play a very complex relationship between the two characters.

                It's a shame it may never be pursue with actual lines and scenes. But I'm still hoping to catch something - even if it means that the editors have left a glance or two between them somewhere along the line.

                I agree with spaz. I know that both actresses can pull it off, the problem is the material that they would be/have been given. You can only make it so good. 'Cause even the most awful of writing can't be saved by the brilliance of the actors.
                sigpic

                Comment


                  [QUOTE=Gate gal]In danger of making people angry with me, I still want to see a Sam/Vala friendship. The characters are very different, but they are both exhosts. QUOTE]

                  I would never be angry with you for stating your opinion, Gategal, and I hope you are right about them being able to bond. I just have no faith that TPTB will be able to pull it off convincingly after the mess they've made of the Sam/Cam friendship, two characters who should, by all rights, have a lot in common (after all they've served together and obviously got along pretty well back then!)

                  I have a friend who is a bit like Vala. She flirts to get attention from guys because it's the only way she knows to get attention from people and, because of this, I do see the point that was made earlier about Vala not knowing any better. It still doesn't make her any more likeable though! Still, like my friend, I'm willing to give her a chance, who knows? Previous experience might mean that I actually end up liking her! Stranger things have happened, I guess, but I *still* don't like Mitchell and I'm sticking to my initial opinion of him. They should promote Sam and give her leadership status ASAP!
                  Sam and Jack... Still the best romance on TV in years!


                  My fanfic http://www.fanfiction.net/~drawntotherhythm

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Myrth
                    Mmm I don't know that it's excuse making. There is actually a business reality behind all this and Brad's comments are very valid.

                    For those who aren't aware, Sony is no longer involved in Stargate (or any MGM shows). MGM have decided to take tv back and make it an internally driven department rather than outsourcing the money. MGM are trying to rebuild their empire on the back of Stargate and a few other things... so that may be another layer of the comments from Brad and Rob. From a business perspective I can see the validity of the comments and it's an undeniable reality. But then overcoming challenges is part of the top job.. hope someone sent a memo to Cooper

                    I think a re-branding would have been a great thing too. With absolutely nothing different about season 9 or 10 other than the name, do you think we would be more accepting of it? I do.
                    Most certainly not. I think the epsodes I watched in season 9 were awful. I have no intenion of watching a show which parades scantily clad females spouting sexual innuendo or episodes which are plagarised from other more popular Sci Fi shows. WHATEVER THE NAME IT IS NOT MY SORT OF SHOW. Together with the loss of team eps, less stuff about the stargate a little too much about the Ori and I'm just not interested anymore. That is the point. Everything I loved about the show has gone.

                    Speaking from a business point of view I would have been first up there telling them of the risk of changing the show. The potential risk of fans not liking it. They had a show with a big loyal fan base. Most of the moanings about the show in the latter couple of season were the lack of team episodes and the demise of Janet and the loss of Hammond. Why change it totally instead of realigning the show, or nudging in a different direction?

                    I think there was a lot of mileage left in the show - quite simply because it was so unique. All it needed was some good creative writing - yes possibly a new baddie and a really interesting new cast member. I think the show would have sailed through anjother couple of seasons paving the way for a new spin off with new characters.

                    Just changing the show totally was a complete risk. It may still pay off as new viewers may come on board. We'll see.

                    Whatever I want my old SG1 back
                    Last edited by Coley; 21 July 2006, 10:38 AM.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by astrogeologist
                      Does anyone know where to find the Season-by-season Nielsen ratings averages for Stargate SG-1? (that is, what was the Nielsen ratings average for Season 1, Season 2, etc.). I'd like to see a graph of those numbers...
                      So, I went looking and found some numbers on GW's Season by season pages... their numbers weren't complete, or consistent over the years, but I couldn't find anything else quickly by googling the web at large.

                      Here's a graph


                      Of note, GW has high ratings numbers posted for some of the episodes in Seasons 1-2, but it's difficult to tell what the numbers are for (first run, second run, syndication, etc.)

                      Also, syndication numbers are often significantly higher than the first run numbers.... For example, Season 6's first run average was a 1.7, but the syndication average was a significantly higher 2.2!

                      .

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Gate gal
                        In danger of making people angry with me, I still want to see a Sam/Vala friendship. The characters are very different, but they are both exhosts.


                        Carter is an ex-host?!

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by astrogeologist
                          So, I went looking and found some numbers on GW's Season by season pages... their numbers weren't complete, or consistent over the years, but I couldn't find anything else quickly by googling the web at large.

                          Here's a graph
                          Spoiler:



                          Of note, GW has high ratings numbers posted for some of the episodes in Seasons 1-2, but it's difficult to tell what the numbers are for (first run, second run, syndication, etc.)

                          Also, syndication numbers are often significantly higher than the first run numbers.... For example, Season 6's first run average was a 1.7, but the syndication average was a significantly higher 2.2!

                          .
                          And here's a graph of the season premiere ratings



                          Note: I'd greatly appreciate it if someone would check my #'s, and maybe plot their own graphs, so that we can see the data in other ways

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by DEM


                            Carter is an ex-host?!

                            To Jolinar, the Tok'Ra. (BTW ignore me if your post was sarcastic, I couldn't tell!)
                            Sam and Jack... Still the best romance on TV in years!


                            My fanfic http://www.fanfiction.net/~drawntotherhythm

                            Comment


                              Sam and Vala friendship????

                              If they dress Vala in normal cloths and cut out the childish sexual innuendo, but still retain that snarky, devious, teasing and yes the gung ho side to her I actually think it would provide an excellent base for a very strong interaction. I can see great possibilities for humour, conflict (but not the *****y sort - I don't see Vala as *****y at all and Sam certainly isn't), problem solving by coming at problems from different perspectives. However I think the potential strength of that particular interaction will prevent TPTB from going down that route - as it would really just outshine any interelationship that is (or more to the point is not) on the show.

                              We could't have that could we. We all know that Cam rules!! If TPTB want BB and CB to be in a new show they will try to use these characters to make the original 3 look rather boring. Totally unfair to everyone involved including the veteran viewers

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by astrogeologist
                                I agree, Amber, Sam shouldn't be just the tecnhobabbling geek that everyone either ignores or makes fun of. She used to to be a rich character of many talents... Season 9 'flattened' her character considerably. There have also been too many Sam-goes-'duh' moments (as someone posted yesterday); moments where Sam is just 'left behind' mentally by events.
                                I agree that Carter has been flattened, but I'm not sure I'd say it's as simple as restricting the character to technobabble. Before S9, I rarely -- twice, at most -- had to guess whether Carter actually was instrumental in solving a technical or scientific problem. Since S9, however, that's happened a lot (e.g., Fourth Horseman, Flesh and Blood). Furthermore, those times when Carter's instrumentality has been clear, often the problems have been rather mundane ones that even Lt Simmons could have handled (e.g., boosting a radio signal in The Scourge).

                                Whatever it is, I feel that Carter has been steadily, though perhaps subtly, gutted.

                                Originally posted by AmberLM
                                ... if your post was sarcastic, I couldn't tell!
                                No mind; I'm used to that reaction.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X