Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[VSS]

Another Non-shippy ep but I’m going to post it anyway just to get caught up.

One False Step

Favorite Scene- Daniel playing airplane
Favorite Quote-
Teal’c: Do you not believe we are responsible, O’Neill?
Jack: Yes, I do… not…

Thanks, Achaja!

Does anyone like this ep? GW comments and ratings pan this as one of the worst Stargate eps there is.

One fun thing about a rewatch is getting something out of the episodes that you don’t like on the first couple of tries. Reading other people’s comments really helps me with that! So I really gave it my best shot but this episode just doesn’t work for me on any level. I’ve always I thought it was the cheesy costumes or stereotypical Jack and Daniel- but I think there’s more to it than that.

It seems to me that Stargate episodes all have a purpose- part of a story arc, eye candy, or social/technological commentary. The best ones have all three. I think this episode has none of those. It is a useless episode and the first one I have seen thus far in Stargate, and that’s why I don’t like it. Are there any others like this?

A nice little bit of continuity here with Carter cutting her hand, because that’s a key part of 1969. I don’t get a single other thing out of this ep. Is there something more? I keep wondering but if there is I don’t see it. They’d have been better off if they’d had her cut her hand on a sardine lid in another episode, IMHO.

Spoiler:

It’s just a random thing that the writer picked- ultrasound- and made it the basis for a story and then made up a bunch of things to go with it. It’s great to make up science (like zats or symbiotes) as long as they’re coherent and fit into the fictional universe. But we never see these people or their strange abilities again. So, to me, it fails the science part of sci-fi because it has no implications for the series and ties in poorly with RL. It’s just make-believe with no real point.

Another purpose of scifi is social/technological commentary. Does this ep make us think? I know what the point is- the team shouldn’t go around making assumptions or inadvertently harming indigenous life. But that’s scifi 101- it’d be okay for the first few eps of Star Trek but by now we (and SG-1) are well aware of those two things. In that regard this ep is a little like Emancipation and Spirits.

Except those eps had some significant character moments that saved them. There was a story- even though we never see those people or their technology again, either, there are lasting effects on the members of the SGC. Here, we get Jack and Daniel bickering- but again we already know Jack and Daniel have conflicting world views at times and this doesn’t do anything to move that arc along.

And without a space battle, a cool set or interesting costumes there’s no eye candy- well, Jack and Daniel in the infirmary come close, but that didn’t last long enough to qualify. And neither did the funky village, plants and costumes, IMHO.

Implications for Sam and Jack: None that I can see. In fact, in my opinion there are no implications for anything or anyone and I think that’s why this ep fails so completely.

[Rachel500]

Another Non-shippy ep but I’m going to post it anyway just to get caught up.

Does anyone like this ep? GW comments and ratings pan this as one of the worst Stargate eps there is.

It seems to me that Stargate episodes all have a purpose- part of a story arc, eye candy, or social/technological commentary. The best ones have all three. I think this episode has none of those. It is a useless episode and the first one I have seen thus far in Stargate, and that’s why I don’t like it. Are there any others like this?

<snippety-snip>

Implications for Sam and Jack: None that I can see. In fact, in my opinion there are no implications for anything or anyone and I think that’s why this ep fails so completely.

I hated it the first time I watched it but I actually quite enjoy it now.

First time round I would have agreed with a lot of your commentary and I would have also added this was Stargate 'painting by the numbers'. But since then I've watched it quite a few times and the things that strike me are:-

Spoilers for length only

Spoiler:

a) this is a Jack and Daniel friendship focus story - the scene both on the planet where they are arguing and Daniel does his whole frustrated dance thing and in the infirmary where they're apologising to each other, and both going 'obviously there's something wrong with us' only for Janet to walk in and say 'there's nothing wrong with you' I just find hilariously funny. For me, it is about subtly pointing out just how far the two of them have come as friends...they know they have opposite viewpoints, and they know they each frustrate the other but underneath they do have this bond and friendship and know the intensity of their argument was off and indicated something was wrong (because as it turns out there was something wrong with them). It is showing character development - small and subtle but there.

b) the rest of the story is really about First Contact and the ramifications of actions. And yes, they had done it before, but I think this is one of the first times just the SGC's exploration ethic really negatively impacts on a whole population without an external factor such as the Goa'uld being involved as in Cimmeria. This is more of a forerunner to Red Sky.

Because they choose to travel through the gate, because they are exploring they are putting the civilisations they come into contact with in danger. They do address why they don't usually cause mass epidemics here (with the idea that as most of the civilisations are human, they share similar antibodies).

c) in line with that, there is a theme of responsibility - I seem to recall that there is a discussion between Janet, Hammond and Sam on the extent to which they should take responsibility for what has happened and there is a decision taken here to take responsibility and try to fix it if they can. Some of this is very Trek 101 and had been covered before but it is clearly the socio-political commentary underlying the episode.

d) they did try to create a uniquely alien civilisation here with the co-existence between the plants and aliens; the naked painted alien and igloo structures. I appreciate the attempt more now after the later seasons where every alien civilisation turned into a medieval village setting of some kind. It was one of the great things about early SG1 was there was an attempt to show something different.

e) I'm fairly sure this is also one of the first times we see the UAV? Which obviously has impact further down the line as S3 is all about retrieving the thing from forests on various planets.

f) it is one of the few Stargate episodes where I think the ship is completely absent even down to chemistry between the actors. Both play their joint scenes with the sense that they're all about being professional colleagues; military team-mates rather than any other personal connection.

I don't know. I guess I still acknowledge that the story content of gate travel, problem, solution, ending isn't that original nor the socio aspects highlighted, or even the Jack/Daniel friendship piece but it no longer bothers me.

I kind of enjoy it now as 'Stargate-lite'. Maybe I've mellowed in my old age...

[VSS]

I hated it the first time I watched it but I actually quite enjoy it now.

First time round I would have agreed with a lot of your commentary and I would have also added this was Stargate 'painting by the numbers'. But since then I've watched it quite a few times and the things that strike me are:-

Spoilers for length only

Spoiler:

a) this is a Jack and Daniel friendship focus story - the scene both on the planet where they are arguing and Daniel does his whole frustrated dance thing and in the infirmary where they're apologising to each other, and both going 'obviously there's something wrong with us' only for Janet to walk in and say 'there's nothing wrong with you' I just find hilariously funny. For me, it is about subtly pointing out just how far the two of them have come as friends...they know they have opposite viewpoints, and they know they each frustrate the other but underneath they do have this bond and friendship and know the intensity of their argument was off and indicated something was wrong (because as it turns out there was something wrong with them). It is showing character development - small and subtle but there.

b) the rest of the story is really about First Contact and the ramifications of actions. And yes, they had done it before, but I think this is one of the first times just the SGC's exploration ethic really negatively impacts on a whole population without an external factor such as the Goa'uld being involved as in Cimmeria. This is more of a forerunner to Red Sky.

Because they choose to travel through the gate, because they are exploring they are putting the civilisations they come into contact with in danger. They do address why they don't usually cause mass epidemics here (with the idea that as most of the civilisations are human, they share similar antibodies).

c) in line with that, there is a theme of responsibility - I seem to recall that there is a discussion between Janet, Hammond and Sam on the extent to which they should take responsibility for what has happened and there is a decision taken here to take responsibility and try to fix it if they can. Some of this is very Trek 101 and had been covered before but it is clearly the socio-political commentary underlying the episode.

d) they did try to create a uniquely alien civilisation here with the co-existence between the plants and aliens; the naked painted alien and igloo structures. I appreciate the attempt more now after the later seasons where every alien civilisation turned into a medieval village setting of some kind. It was one of the great things about early SG1 was there was an attempt to show something different.

e) I'm fairly sure this is also one of the first times we see the UAV? Which obviously has impact further down the line as S3 is all about retrieving the thing from forests on various planets.

f) it is one of the few Stargate episodes where I think the ship is completely absent even down to chemistry between the actors. Both play their joint scenes with the sense that they're all about being professional colleagues; military team-mates rather than any other personal connection.

I don't know. I guess I still acknowledge that the story content of gate travel, problem, solution, ending isn't that original nor the socio aspects highlighted, or even the Jack/Daniel friendship piece but it no longer bothers me.

I kind of enjoy it now as 'Stargate-lite'. Maybe I've mellowed in my old age...

It's funny, but your assessment is exactly the one I started out with when I started to type it up. Because I agree with every single point you make including loving the scene between Daniel & Jack and Janet. It's just that even there, the ep screams "Look! We're focusing on Daniel and Jack!" just like it hits us over the head with the effects people could accidentally have on alien environments.

But I will admit I am not easy to please. I don't even watch TV very much, and even though I agree with your write-up it just doesn't rise to the level of enjoyment for me. As you say, it's Stargate-lite, but it didn't have to be.
1969 is also Stargate-lite but it's supposed to be, and I think that's what leaves me cold. They could have done a lot with this ep, but wasted a great deal of time figuring out it was the ultrasound, and watching the team and the aliens get sick.

As I wrote before, this ep is to scifi themes as Emancipation is to women's rights or Spirits is to environmentalism. It's basic planetary ethics we're being hit over the head with, here. But there's much less redeeming value than those eps, IMHO.

Because I disliked those eps too, and the rewatch convinced me otherwise- but I just can't get anywhere with this one. This one still stands as the only episode (I think) that I just can't like at any level.

Thanks for pointing out the use of the UAV. I'd forgotten about that. They could have put that along with Sam cutting her hand in a completely different ep, though, because that tech is ours, not this civilization's, so to me it still fails in that regard.

Oh, and thanks for posting that pic of Daniel, Zoser. Doesn't he look like a mermaid? I think he does. It's hilarious.

[Zoser]

I almost hate to say it but I like this episode and chiefly it is because of it's sense of whimsy.

One of my favorite scenes is where Jack is looking for the aliens and one pops up.


And the other is when Jack and Daniel sort of defining one another - these two 'friends' are oil and water. And maybe some of Daniel's feeling of not belonging and allowing himself to Ascend has to do with Jack, not only Carter, not letting him know they care for him and respect him before he is on death's doorstep.
DANIEL
Oh, please! We have a difference of opinion on just about everything.

O'NEILL
Give me an example.

DANIEL
I don't know. Pick something. How about mythology?

O'NEILL
Rumors? Lies? Fairytales?

DANIEL
You see?
From stargate-sg1-solutions.com

I also enjoyed looking for the zippers in the backs of the cheezy costumes. But I like the dwellings!

[KatG]

I like "One False Step" as well now, although on first viewing it wasn't one of my favorites either. Mainly for the reasons Rachel mentioned. I just find it humorous for the most part, with an underlying message of "look before you leap".

[VSS]

I guess I'm just a hard case. I even tried to give this ep a chance (because I knew I didn't like it) but I just don't, I guess because it's so unsubtle.

For instance, that coversation where Daniel says "We have a difference of opinion on just about everything." We knew that. That's like a line they'd stick into Season 9 or 10 to point something out, like Mitchell being a hero, instead of letting us draw our own conclusions (which in this case, we already have). But the whole ep is that way. It's unsophisticated on every level. Remember that thing about the audience being sensitive and intelligent (who said that? Some PTB) It's true. And this ep offends me for that reason. But, as I said, I am picky.

And for sure it's the one ep I skip if there are people who have never seen Stargate before in our house! And now I never have to watch it again!

[Zoser]

I guess I'm just a hard case. I even tried to give this ep a chance (because I knew I didn't like it) but I just don't, I guess because it's so unsubtle.

For instance, that coversation where Daniel says "We have a difference of opinion on just about everything." We knew that. That's like a line they'd stick into Season 9 or 10 to point something out, like Mitchell being a hero, instead of letting us draw our own conclusions (which in this case, we already have). But the whole ep is that way. It's unsophisticated on every level. Remember that thing about the audience being sensitive and intelligent (who said that? Some PTB) It's true. And this ep offends me for that reason. But, as I said, I am picky.

And for sure it's the one ep I skip if there are people who have never seen Stargate before in our house! And now I never have to watch it again!

Yes, I suppose we do but what do we really know what Jack knows or believes. All we know is he is a supposed hard nosed man looking for weapons to defend us against the Goa'uld. But if that's all he was he would have thrown his lot in with Makepeace and the rouge NID. Maybe it is what his experiences off world and maybe it is also rubbing shoulders with the like of Daniel Jackson and Samantha Carter that precipitate the change. Thank god he wasn't flouncing around with Merlin & co. but he is a different man from the start of SG-1. Just as he is a different man at the start of SG-1 from the movie - the evolution of Jack.
Any episode with Jack in it is worth a second look even if the sound is turned off - I am pathetic when it comes to Jack O'Neill.

No, this is not the episode I'd show to anyone I was trying to impress with Stargate - that would be Heroes or Abyss or sooo many others.

[Zoser]

Yes, they are. I agree with what you wrote about Jack and Daniel. If they were only snakes there wouldn't be a problem- but there are innocent, victimized hosts that still are alive. That makes it tougher, I think.

I wasn't referring to host vs symboite but Tok'ra and Goa'uld in Jack's estimation - a snake's a snake!

[Aveo_amacus]

For instance, that coversation where Daniel says "We have a difference of opinion on just about everything." We knew that. That's like a line they'd stick into Season 9 or 10 to point something out, like Mitchell being a hero, instead of letting us draw our own conclusions (which in this case, we already have). But the whole ep is that way. It's unsophisticated on every level. Remember that thing about the audience being sensitive and intelligent (who said that? Some PTB) It's true. And this ep offends me for that reason. But, as I said, I am picky.

I think it was Mitchell in 200, something like "[your audience is] thoughtful intelligent people who respond well to quality entertainment" or something like that

[Rachel500]

I think for everyone there's probably one or two episodes that just don't hit the right buttons.

I can't stand S5's The Tomb and loathed having to rewatch it for Aftershocks.

And speaking of Aftershocks, this is the one for One False Step...

Kel chak mor

I think I did sneak in some Sam/Jack UST.

[VSS]

Yes, I suppose we do but what do we really know what Jack knows or believes. All we know is he is a supposed hard nosed man looking for weapons to defend us against the Goa'uld. But if that's all he was he would have thrown his lot in with Makepeace and the rouge NID. Maybe it is what his experiences off world and maybe it is also rubbing shoulders with the like of Daniel Jackson and Samantha Carter that precipitate the change. Thank god he wasn't flouncing around with Merlin & co. but he is a different man from the start of SG-1. Just as he is a different man at the start of SG-1 from the movie - the evolution of Jack.
Any episode with Jack in it is worth a second look even if the sound is turned off - I am pathetic when it comes to Jack O'Neill.

No, this is not the episode I'd show to anyone I was trying to impress with Stargate - that would be Heroes or Abyss or sooo many others.

I agree with all of what you've written, it's just that this episode does nothing to move any of that forward and they're bickering just for the sake of bickering. This is The Broca Divide for Jack and Daniel only without the sex. and maybe it would have worked in season 1 better, though even there it would have been heavy-handed. Not like, say, Scorched Earth where we can see their differences play out over a real issue.

Just as aside, does Jack ever apologize for anything? I'm just really curious about that, because I can't recall if he does. He comes close in this ep, though. Except for what happened to Charlie, is there anything he actually regrets or has he just learned to live with his errors because he's done the best he could?

BTW, I noticed one of the ladies on the RDA/Jack thread is pulling screencaps of these eps at about the same pace as we're talking about it. But I'm not a diehard Jack fan, no not me, I'm in it for the intellectual stimulation.

I think it was Mitchell in 200, something like "[your audience is] thoughtful intelligent people who respond well to quality entertainment" or something like that

That's it! So, if it's Mitchell in 200, they don't really mean it, do they?

I think for everyone there's probably one or two episodes that just don't hit the right buttons.

I can't stand S5's The Tomb and loathed having to rewatch it for Aftershocks.

And speaking of Aftershocks, this is the one for One False Step...

Kel chak mor

I think I did sneak in some Sam/Jack UST.

It's bad enough to have to write a few paragraphs on a bad ep, but a story would probably do me in! That's dedication.

I'll be very interested to see what you have to say about The Tomb.I'm sort of "meh" on that ep, but I truly think this is the only ep of Stargate I actively dislike in seasons 1-8.

[VSS]

Speaking of fanfic, Stargate Fan Awards are open for voting.

Looks like you and I are in the same category, Rachel! I just about fell out of my chair to be nominated, anyway. Thanks, Sarai!

[Aveo_amacus]

I know this is about 8 seasons early but I was watching an advert for Continuum earlier and I've only just realised that Jack says "what have you done with my people", now that's Vala and Teal'c. To me this is pretty significant that it's these two and Jack saying it; Vala's included 100%, Jack includes her as one of his people. I know this could just be 'oh she's a member of SGC' but it doesn't feel that way, to me it seems that Jack knows Vala. Would you say this is through team nights etc where Jack was present and through his link with Sam our am I just crazy??

[hedwig]

I know this is about 8 seasons early but I was watching an advert for Continuum earlier and I've only just realised that Jack says "what have you done with my people", now that's Vala and Teal'c. To me this is pretty significant that it's these two and Jack saying it; Vala's included 100%, Jack includes her as one of his people. I know this could just be 'oh she's a member of SGC' but it doesn't feel that way, to me it seems that Jack knows Vala. Would you say this is through team nights etc where Jack was present and through his link with Sam our am I just crazy??

Just my personal opinion, but I do think it's because he's still very much connected to the SGC and SG1 - probably because of Sam, but in a bit of a lesser way because he doesn't want to give up ties to his old team and stomping grounds. And given that, he's at least become acquainted with Vala, enough to think of her as one of "his" people. Any time he's in Colorado Springs, I imagine he spends some off duty time with his former team. Plus, there's that comment that Mitchell or Daniel makes at the end about how often does General O'Neill buy (or offer to buy) lunch for everyone. That sounds like he's been around enough for lunch (or even dinner gatherings) to be somewhat common.

[VSS]

Just my personal opinion, but I do think it's because he's still very much connected to the SGC and SG1 - probably because of Sam, but in a bit of a lesser way because he doesn't want to give up ties to his old team and stomping grounds. And given that, he's at least become acquainted with Vala, enough to think of her as one of "his" people. Any time he's in Colorado Springs, I imagine he spends some off duty time with his former team. Plus, there's that comment that Mitchell or Daniel makes at the end about how often does General O'Neill buy (or offer to buy) lunch for everyone. That sounds like he's been around enough for lunch (or even dinner gatherings) to be somewhat common.

This is pretty much what I think, too. Though it could be less personal- I could see him including anyone in the entire Stargate program in this way since he's directing his comments at an enemy. At some level, I think he'll always feel responsible for SG-1 and everyone at the SGC, even if he's not.

To be honest, I've never really liked that bit, because it does sound like he's still in charge of SG-1, or at that there's a rigid command structure with him at the top.