Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[ses110]

RDA not even supposed to be in the second movie at all is a big problem IMO. RDA deserved better than that. RDA also deserved better in his season 9 and 10 guest spots. RDA was not exaclty thrilled with the way he was used in Season 9 and 10 and the second movie if I remember correctly. RDA was a huge part in the success of SG-1 which let to Atalntis and other Stargate projects. Just because he left after 8 did not mean he was done with Stargate.

[m_wendy_r]

I don't recall Richard Dean Anderson stating that he was unhappy with the development of his character in Season 9, 10, and there after. The man left the show at the end of Season 8 for family reasons, his own personal choice. He *chose* to return for guest spots in episodes and the movie, a decision that I was pleased to see but the success of the movie would have gone on either way. A decision that was his to make, it wasn't the doing of anyone else. The man is a huge talent, he deserves respect, but not at the expense of the others involved with the Stargate project, both on and off the screen. They all dedicated themselves to it, and they all worked together. Yes, the dynamic of the show changed in Season 9, but not everyone disliked it. I know a lot of people who actually prefer it. Some fans joined at that season and went backwards to watch the rest. I, personally, have enjoyed every season of SG-1, SGA (and SGU has yet to complete for a season).

RDA did do a lot for the franchise, but so did everyone else. The Sam and Jack ship wouldn't exist at all if it weren't for others involved. I'm gonna say it, I love TPTB, I adore subtle, I think they've done an amazing job.

On-topic, Serpents Venom is one of my favourites for the mine scene where he pulls her out from under the bomb. Probably because it has this air of hot to it as well. And I love how Jack protects her by putting her behind him -- despite the fact it's a bit futile to do that, if it were to explode, it wouldn't matter where she were.

[Jumble]

Well said Wendy No one person made the show and franchise what it is, it was a team effort.

[Rachel500]

Movie/RDA

Only RDA and TPTB really know for certain what went on between them/what their relationship was during S8-Continuum. Whatever did go on given RDA's involvement with SGU and that Jack is meant to be the central figure in movie #3 I think it's safe to say they're still happy to work together.

I do know RDA expressed that he was surprised at being used in Atlantis when he returned S3 SGA/S10 SG1 and personally, while I enjoy the episodes he appeared in, I would have preferred him to have been used more on SG1 - I loved The Shroud as an episode (although thought it could have been done as a two-parter). I do criticise TPTB for some of the decisions they make; they haven't always got it right, IMO - I will always consider the beginning half of S9 following the opening episode of Avalon a complete mess. However, I will say that they've probably got more right than wrong for me over the years, and that's why I've stuck around.

From a ship perspective, I feel the same. I think they could have been bolder about confirming the ship in S9/S10. Hints were great but it would have been nice to have had more. Do I wish they'd done something shippier with the movies we got? In terms of Continuum I think the fact that we got so much implied ship was huge and I love Continuum as a movie.

But I can appreciate ses's viewpoint. Personally, I think TPTB were too optimistic about more movies being on the cards beyond AoT and Continuum. In the run up to the two movie deal, if I had been a TPTB I would have already been talking to RDA about appearing, about at least the second movie being very old school and including something confirming Sam/Jack on the basis that it might be the last outing. From the hints dropped about movie #3, it seems to me that this is going to be the approach with movie #3, and right now, I'm still hopeful movie #3 will be made at some point.

As far as SGU is concerned, I personally like it. There are things I think could be improved but overall I'm enjoying it. If SGU is successful, I only see that as a good thing for when MGM (when it gets its act together) revisits the decision on whether to go ahead with the SG1 movies because it'll mean the producers can point to a still active fandom for the franchise which presumably is a major selling point.

[Petra]

I don't recall Richard Dean Anderson stating that he was unhappy with the development of his character in Season 9, 10, and there after. The man left the show at the end of Season 8 for family reasons, his own personal choice. He *chose* to return for guest spots in episodes and the movie, a decision that I was pleased to see but the success of the movie would have gone on either way. A decision that was his to make, it wasn't the doing of anyone else. The man is a huge talent, he deserves respect, but not at the expense of the others involved with the Stargate project, both on and off the screen. They all dedicated themselves to it, and they all worked together. Yes, the dynamic of the show changed in Season 9, but not everyone disliked it. I know a lot of people who actually prefer it. Some fans joined at that season and went backwards to watch the rest. I, personally, have enjoyed every season of SG-1, SGA (and SGU has yet to complete for a season).

Unless I missed something, nobody said anything about RDA being unhappy with his character development. I don't believe he would ever do that, he has too much class. I think that ses110 meant the interviews in which RDA expressed his disappointment at being shoved to SGA when he expected to come back to SG-1. (please correct me if I'm wrong ses) No one here is begrudging the man his decision to leave nor belittling the efforts of the rest of the cast & crew. But being the anti-seasons 9&10 myself I certainly understand where ses is coming from and I share some of her sentiments.

Spoilered for OT seasons 9&10 perceptions:

Spoiler:

I know a lot of people like those seasons and good for them, but alas, it isn't an opinion shared by everyone. I noticed (and this is only my totally subjective observation and not meant as any slight whatsoever) that the later people started to watch SG-1 the more likely they are to like the last seasons. I don't see many fans who started watching the series back in the 90's still around. Most of them left in season 9, when lack of any interactions between the big 3, wallpapering certain characters, change of humour from subtle and sarcastic to slapstick, retconning, campiness and cheesyness, cliches, plotholes and lack of continuity started to rule. I'm doing a rewatch on another thread and I'm usually bothered by little details that I know are wrong and contradict what happened in earlier seasons but other fans who started watching later and in order to catch up were watching much faster than me don't pick them up at all. *shrug* Lack of Gekko had a lot to do with the changes and thus folks yearn for RDA/Gekko's return. That's it.

Personally though I also don't see any connection between the third movie and SGU. And for the record, while I haven't been impressed with SGA (too cartoonish for my taste), I really like SGU.

I wish I could add something to Serpent's Venom discussion but I haven't rewatched it and what I remember the most is Teal'c getting tortured, Rak'nor and wonderful S/J moments with the mine (*cough*it wasn't supposed to sound so kinky *cough*), which were already covered, so I'm going to shut up now.

[Cagranosalis]

From a ship perspective, I feel the same. I think they could have been bolder about confirming the ship in S9/S10. Hints were great but it would have been nice to have had more. Do I wish they'd done something shippier with the movies we got? In terms of Continuum I think the fact that we got so much implied ship was huge and I love Continuum as a movie.

Purely from a shipper point of view, I do wish they'd been more overt about where Sam and Jack were at post S8 so it is quite frustrating that we've had ambiguity since then. However, if I take the shipper hat off and put on a Gen fan hat I think that the balance was probably right. I think Brad's comment in the interview he gave: (paraphrasing slightly) "If you want them to be together then they are together." is telling. IMO TPTB wrote it this ambigously deliberately. Because they want to please shippers as much as they could, without upsetting antis and gen fans who don't want it. So you can put whichever hat you like on and it still works. I think that's extremely clever.
It's interesting to note that, by season 4/5 of SGA they wrote some fairly overt ship, so perhaps it's something that, in hindsight, they'd wished they had commited one way or another with Sam and Jack and, I think, the third movie is certainly going to do that.... umm, eventually.

Unless I missed something, nobody said anything about RDA being unhappy with his character development. I don't believe he would ever do that, he has too much class. I think that ses110 meant the interviews in which RDA expressed his disappointment at being shoved to SGA when he expected to come back to SG-1. (please correct me if I'm wrong ses) No one here is begrudging the man his decision to leave nor belittling the efforts of the rest of the cast & crew. But being the anti-seasons 9&10 myself I certainly understand where ses is coming from and I share some of her sentiments.

Well ses did say:

RDA was not exaclty thrilled with the way he was used in Season 9 and 10 and the second movie if I remember correctly.

...but ses appears to have a remarkable amount of insight into exactly what RDA wanted / was thinking / feeling so, possibly I am missing something.



S9/10 OT

Spoiler:

Personally, I have been watching SG-1 since day one. I did stop watching during S9 and S10, purely because I was completely overawed with new motherhood. However, once I got a little bit of my freedom back (aka he was sleeping through the night! ) I played catch up. I wasn't overly thrilled with the first half of S9, mostly because too much changed in too short a space of time - Jack was gone, Sam wasn't around (to start) too many new people I haven't developed any history or rapport with (not just Mitchell and Vala but Dr Lam, General Landry etc.) and a whole new mythology and brand new enemy just popping up from nowhere. It's a lot to change and expect old school fans to "get" straight away. But I think a lot of that was circumstantial; RDA had left, AT was on maternity leave, Don S Davis had retired too so wasn't around to "come back" as the general so, by necessity we had to have a few new people. And they wrapped up pretty much every thread and enemy in, er, Threads so where do you go from there without ressurecting some tired old enemy again? Possibly they could have introduced these elements sooner (the last half of S8 maybe) so the transition from S8 to S9 was smoother but, really, do you want to spend the latter half of a season setting up the next, to the detriment of the stories you could and should be telling with the current cast before one of the main cast members departs?
S10, I thought they'd settled into their stride and it was an excellent season with some great episodes and epic moments.
Yes RDA could have been used more in SG-1 instead of SGA for his few apprearances and, frankly, I would have preferred that, but I understand there might have been a business/political decision behind boosting the profile of a still running series instead of using him in one that's already been cancelled. And yes, I think it's criminal they didn't find a way to get him on board for the series finale. But we're not privvy to what prompted those choices so I'm prepared to accept there's reasons why that happened that way.

What I find frustrating is the way a lot of people will automatically jump upon TPTB for S9 and S10 not being what S1 to S8 were - well of course they won't be; the lack of a huge, massive presence that RDA really is will make a difference - but nobody ever rails against RDA for leaving in the first place. Not that they should (and I completely respect his decision to do so), but... sometimes, some of the things I read, it's like he's some kind of saint and TPTB are to "blame" for the necessity of change that his leaving forced upon them.

I don't like absolutely everything TPTB did, but I do still stand by my opinion that they did a great job given the materials, cast and budget they have. And, end of the day, even if you dismiss S9 and S10 and the subsequent movies, SGA etc., they still gave us 8 seasons of wonderful TV.



Back on topic - Shipper rewatch. In case anyone is wondering Nyenave hasn't forgotten Chain Reaction but has a mad life and not much time at the moment so it will be posted soon. We'll either carry on on (new) schedule (and maybe discuss a couple of episode in tandem) or we can push the others back a day or two again. Whatever everyone wants.

[Rachel500]

<snippety-snip>


Back on topic - Shipper rewatch. In case anyone is wondering Nyenave hasn't forgotten Chain Reaction but has a mad life and not much time at the moment so it will be posted soon. We'll either carry on on (new) schedule (and maybe discuss a couple of episode in tandem) or we can push the others back a day or two again. Whatever everyone wants.

I'm OK either way.

[yessika]

I'm OK either way.

Me too

[Nynaeve506]

Amazing Graphic by AveoAmacus

Summary:

Just another day at the SGC - SG-1 is off world, SG-1 is getting shot at, SG-1 is getting shot at while trying to get through the Gate. Hammond holds the Gate open despite procedure and at the briefing announces that he's done - he's going home to watch the Food channel and play pinochle (confession: I know nothing about pinochle but it's just one of those words that's fun to say, even if you're just saying it in your head). Jack doesn't buy it (Hammond's always been more of a poker guy...). Enter General Hard-Ass. Within five minutes Bauer (not to be confused with the very awesome Jack Bauer who would have kicked this Bauer's ass in two seconds and made this entire episode much more bloody) - decides to reassign everyone - and has a discussion with Jack about bullet points (which leads me to believe that the General had recently discovered Word and was just excited he decided he was going to revolutionize report writing). Jack gets himself sent on leave and instead of going fishing, decides to save the SG-1 and General Hammond. After breaking out Maybourne, roughing up a few roughnecks without ever actually firing a gun and only knocking one guy on the head (already more efficient than our Jack Bauer), he gets the dirt on Kinsey (NOW I wish we'd had Jack Bauer), and Hammond is reinstated.

While all this is going on Sam is appeasing General Bauer's need to blow things up (with the size of explosion he's going for, one might think he's compensating) - and they blow up a planet - YES! WOOHOO...'er oh wait, that's right, this ended up with some feedback radiation - BOO! HISS! The Gate luckily shuts down keeping Colorado Springs from being the next Chernobyl and making sure General Bauer still has a commission so he can some place else and make people's lives miserable, although they probably reassigned him somewhere without any nice explosives.

Daniel spent most of the episode looking confused and/or disbelieving. Teal'c, well he doesn't say much, but you knew he was unhappy.

Favorite quote:

I'm pretty sure I want to quote half of whatever Jack says. "Snake in your head instead of your head up your ass" is a good one.

Analysis:

Truthfully Maybourne is the character that goes from being distasteful to actually one of my favorites when he guest stars and this is episode that does it. Tom McBeath just plays the character really well and I enjoy the banter between Jack and Harry.

Jack thoughts:
We actually learn a lot about Jack this episode. On more than one occasion there's reference to his past and the fact that he and "AF One" go way back makes me wonder what he did. My own father flew black ops missions and all he ever told me once (when I thought about joining the AF, I wanted to do intelligence) - was that there was a lot of stuff in the world that I was better off not knowing. I have a hunch Jack has the same sort of background.

He's also not happy about being reminded of this background. I tend to think of the Stargate as being a form of "redemption" for Jack - somewhere in his mind things work like a scale, enough good deeds might just save him from all that he's done that's been "distasteful." Almost every reference to his past earns a look and a joke. We definitely see the fact that he uses humor to shroud his feelings in the episode.

This role and especially this episode just could not have been pulled off by a lesser actor. While it's not the best episode (I found some of the characterizations a little too heavy handed and the plot a little too contrived) - RDA takes mediocre scenes and gives them weight that they just wouldn't have had otherwise. When Hammond tells him about the car and his granddaughters, there's a ferocity in Jack's eyes as he watches the girls play. Children are sacred to him and I mean *sacred* as we see over and over.

There's not much in relationship to Sam here - but I did see some going the other way which I'll talk about here in a second...

Sam:

While we learned a lot about where Jack has been, we see a lot of how far Sam has come in this episode. Jack has rubbed off on her - she obeys orders, but despite the fact that Bauer keeps telling her "at ease" I honestly never saw her get very tense at attention - almost as though it were an afterthought or "whatever". While she doesn't say it to the General's face she's much more sarcastic than I would expect from our "good little soldier."

I also have to believe that she knew what Jack was up to even if she didn't know all the details and in my head I imagine that she worked to obey General Bauer not just because she tends to follow the rules, but also because she trusted the Jack would do what needed to be done. What good would it do Jack if Sam got herself kicked out? I think that if her and SG-1 didn't think Jack was working on the situation they would have been much more stubborn. Instead they all go with the flow.

Also - it's interesting that in the first scene (the only scene they're together) - when General Hammond announces he's leaving, Sam looks to Jack.

Jack and Sam implications:

One might think because the two were not in the episode, there's little S/J to be gleaned. What I think we see here a "supporting" episode. It's been thought that maybe, just maybe Jack might be willing to pursue something with Sam (we see in S. 4 he has no problem being flirty and playful) had she been more open to "bending" the rules so to speak. (Although if Sam had been open to pursuing something he would have worked to get them in a position where they weren't violating regs).

On the other hand, what I interpret overall is that while Jack might have been willing, when him and Sam agree to keep it in the room, he wasn't resentful. He plays by the rules... he just gets creative with them. He's a complicated character (and I hope I can lay this out like I'm thinking it) - he's a little bit of a rebel but he knows which rules need to be followed, which can be bent, and which can be broken altogether (which I think we see some of this in Sam this episode).

And that's what I've got.

[ses110]

Petra, I was referring to RDA being disappointed in doing more SGA than SG-1. I remember many S/J Shippers and long time fans felt the same way as RDA. I could be wrong but I also thought RDA was disappointed he was asked to be in the second movie so late. I think there was an interview. I've pretty much moved on from Stargate so I will be fine if there is no third movie. I no longer watch any of the old episodes. I now watch Big Bang Theory and I'm a Penny/Sheldon Shipper. I always find a new Show and Ship. I hope everything works out for SGU fans.

[JenniferJF]

I figured I'd jump in on Serpent's Venom again. Mostly just because I think I forgot to mention this is one of my absolute favorite episodes. I think it's the mix of team (even without Teal'c there, the ultimate motivation is for him), Jacob/Jack quips, and the bit of S/J touchiness. This is one of those S4 episodes that, while not overtly shippy IMHO, just screams to the relaxation and easy comraderie they share at this point before the later heavy angst and emotional separation kicks in. In a way, it represents everything I love about SG1 - the ability to mix darker themes (the Teal'c storyline) with lighter comedy, and you see everyone on the team being the most them - Teal'c defying the Goa'uld, Daniel translating, Sam tinkering, Jack being *Jack* and standing up for his team and his 'people' and refusing to leave anyone behind....

All this.

With Jacob.

What more could you want?

EDIT: And since Nyna posted on Chain Reaction... That is one of my less favorite episodes, as it represents my two least favorite things - The heavy political/conspiracy-type episodes stuck mostly on earth and, if that wasn't enough, the team is mostly split up throughout.

[Rachel500]

Chain Reaction

Generally

This is really where they make the awesome transition of Maybourne the villain to Harry the somewhat-can't-be-trusted-but-he's on-their-side-really ally. I love the way Jack and Harry work together here. The scene in Kinsey's office is just fabulous and my favourite.

"Pointing, not waving; pointing." Jack on his holding a gun at Kinsey.

However, I too am not keen on the story as a whole. I think primarily because the story separates Jack from the rest of the team and there is only one scene where Jack is seen to be checking in with them. And there isn't enough of the team back at the SGC, either commenting/hoping about Jack's efforts "out in the field".

Plus the whole explosion/bomb/Bauer plotline back at the SGC isn't all that interesting in the way its told, IMO. Teal'c and Daniel get very little to do except hang around in the background being supportive. And Bauer comes across as a patsy in the way he's played (a military version of Woolsey before he settles into his role in Atlantis) which kind of doesn't give enough weight to his actions and decisions or enough ambiguity to them, I guess which may have made this more interesting.

Compare this to Serpent's Venom where the two threads had balance, there isn't the same sense of balance here for me.

Sam and Jack

One of the things I do like about this episode is that Jack actually gets explored as a character in Chain Reaction. His past and the fact that he used to be like Maybourne is hinted at. I agree with Shannon in that I too believe that Jack as a character sees the Stargate programme as a form of redemption for past distasteful acts - a way of balancing the scales.

I also agree with her in terms of Jack and rules. He is a bit of a rebel but he generally knows which are important, which he can bend. Love his confrontation with Bauer over the reassignment of SG1, the way it's made so clear that Jack follows Hammond's command because he respects him not just because he has rank.

I also think that we see in Sam's reaction to Bauer is how much Jack's command style and approach has rubbed off on her. She follows her orders but under protest; and she's not respectful of Bauer and that's made clear in the way she speaks to him, her body language, everything. Again, her view of the rules is very much underpinned by her own sense of honour and what is right/wrong.

All of which brings me onto the most interesting shippy aspect here: they are for the most part of the episode no longer in each others' chain of command. Sam is reassigned by Bauer to work on the bomb; she's not in Jack's immediate chain any longer (although admittedly there still is the point that he is still a senior officer on the same base). This really isn't explored at all in the episode itself but stepping away from the episode and looking at the big picture...

I too agree with the assessment that Jack accepted Sam's suggestion that they leave it in the room because there was a large part of him happy to do so (the part that was scared of moving forward in a relationship and all that would entail, scared whether he could make her happy, whether he was good enough). Here Jack is seeking to reinstate the status quo - now his motivations are all about ensuring the NID doesn't get its sticky paws on the SGC, that Hammond and his family are safe, but one of his motivations is about getting his team back including Sam. And there's no hint here that Sam disagrees with him about the way forward.

For me, this underscores the decision they made in D&C; they're both content with the status quo in terms of where they are right now. However, it probably also reinforces to each of them, their assumptions about the other's reasons for not wanting it out of the room. So Sam's viewpoint that Jack possibly values her as a soldier/scientist more gets reinforced; Jack's viewpoint that she too values their professional relationship gets reinforced.

I find this interesting because of course the next episode is 2010 where the future all goes wrong for them. Because that's the question in 2010, what happened to drive them apart? A question I'll come back to when we do 2010 but I think it's interesting to consider that the events of Chain Reaction are the last common element in the timelines.

And finally, because I fear I've rambled...back on the Family thread at one point someone asked what episode someone would include a kiss in...Chain Reaction was my pick:

Ficlet: Chain Reaction Missing Scene

[hedwig]

While I realize this is the "ship discussion thread", I just feel like noting that although it's been pointed out on other threads, it's interesting to note how friendly Jack is with Hammond's grandchildren. They're overjoyed to see him in the yard and call him "Uncle" Jack. It's a bit of background never explored since the series began, since Jack had never heard of Hammond prior to being brought to the SGC in CotG and returned to duty. Since then, he and Hammond have apparently become friends enough for Jack to spend time around Hammond's granddaughters and become their "Uncle". It makes me wonder how much time Jack (and probably the rest of SG1) have spent with Hammond off base. Hammond is obviously more caring about Sam than about other members of the SGC. He's demonstrated it in several episodes - most noticeably in "The Tok'ra" what with knowing Jacob. But also when he, Teal'c and Bra'tac help rescue them in "Into the Fire". At the end of that episode, as the group is walking toward the gate, Hammond puts his arm around Sam's shoulders. In "Redemption", when the group is all the control room waiting to find out if Jack is safe after ejecting from the F302(?) and he is, Hammond gives Sam a sort of hug or pat on the shoulder. I'm thinking there are other times, too, when his behavior toward her seems rather fatherly instead of a superior officer thing.

Just a few odd thoughts that this episode brings up.

And now back to the regularly scheduled "ship discussion" ...

[JenniferJF]

Hammond is obviously more caring about Sam than about other members of the SGC. He's demonstrated it in several episodes - most noticeably in "The Tok'ra" what with knowing Jacob. But also when he, Teal'c and Bra'tac help rescue them in "Into the Fire". At the end of that episode, as the group is walking toward the gate, Hammond puts his arm around Sam's shoulders. In "Redemption", when the group is all the control room waiting to find out if Jack is safe after ejecting from the F302(?) and he is, Hammond gives Sam a sort of hug or pat on the shoulder. I'm thinking there are other times, too, when his behavior toward her seems rather fatherly instead of a superior officer thing.

I know it's considered more fanon than canon, but I always figured (even before being in fandom) from Secrets that Hammond and Jacob had been friends for quite some time (which, considering how few generals there actually are in the Air Force - though you wouldn't know it from the show - is fairly realistic). Hammond did clearly specially invite Jacob to the awards ceremony and I get the impression it was a personal invite more than a professional one. So it would stand to reason Hammond would have known Sam for some time. Plus at the beginning of To'kra Hammond observes that Sam is more like Jacob than she wants to admit (or some such) and later Hammond goes to Jacob to have what seems a personal conversation about Jacob's death and Sam. Both these also make me thing Hammond and Jacob (and Sam's) relationship goes much earlier than the beginning of the series.

Dunno about Jack and George's kids unless they've had a LOT of unit functions with families invited...

[Petra]

Purely from a shipper point of view, I do wish they'd been more overt about where Sam and Jack were at post S8 so it is quite frustrating that we've had ambiguity since then. However, if I take the shipper hat off and put on a Gen fan hat I think that the balance was probably right. I think Brad's comment in the interview he gave: (paraphrasing slightly) "If you want them to be together then they are together." is telling. IMO TPTB wrote it this ambigously deliberately. Because they want to please shippers as much as they could, without upsetting antis and gen fans who don't want it. So you can put whichever hat you like on and it still works. I think that's extremely clever.

I'll have to disagree with you here. IMO it was a very bad decision. RDA/Jack was no longer part of the show, so what did it matter? Casuals viewers either don't care or are in favour of romance, the antis would still be antis no matter what and I can't believe that one scene would ruin the show for a *gen* fan. And giving a definite answer might have stop at least some of the ship wars.

Another layer are the characters themselves, because while there's no doubt in my mind that Sam and Jack have been together since Threads, not resolving this very important for both characters arch on screen can be seen - and is, from what I've seen, as detrimental to them. Sam had this long incredible journey to discover what makes her happy and what role love and men play in her life and this journey never reached its conclusion on screen. Ditto on Jack.

I understand why TPTB chose to do it this way, commercially, but artistically it was wrong. All in my humble opinion.

S9/10 OT

Spoiler:

*snip*
What I find frustrating is the way a lot of people will automatically jump upon TPTB for S9 and S10 not being what S1 to S8 were - well of course they won't be; the lack of a huge, massive presence that RDA really is will make a difference - but nobody ever rails against RDA for leaving in the first place. Not that they should (and I completely respect his decision to do so), but... sometimes, some of the things I read, it's like he's some kind of saint and TPTB are to "blame" for the necessity of change that his leaving forced upon them.

OT season 9&10 (it's my last post about it, promise)

Spoiler:

See, this is what I find the most annoying and tiring – this assumption that I didn’t like the last 2 seasons because I don’t like changes. Nothing could be further from the truth. I love it when my shows evolve and change. My absolute favourite season of SG-1 is season 6 – and whatever your feelings about it, you have to admit that it was a season of changes. I’m also a big supporter of season 8, which is also often bashed for the changes it made. I embrace changes.

I don’t mind RDA leaving the show, I do mind how it was handled by the writers. As in: it wasn’t. Right till the end of the series we never heard *officially* where Jack was and what he was doing. We, on-line fans know because we read the interviews, the casual viewers don’t have a clue. A whole episode and frequent mentions where dedicated to Daniel, Hammond got a few scenes and explicit explanation, Jack got nothing. Again, I don’t mind the new enemy, but I do mind how clumsy the Ori plot was, almost nothing made sense. I have nothing against the new characters but I hate how they were portrayed, as inept, arrogant and unprofessional. I hate that Teal’c was reverted back to his season 1 persona. I hate that Sam regressed proffesionaly. I hate that Daniel turned from a competent member of military unit and a sensitive guy trying to help those around him into arrogant jerk carrying a gun on him on leave and killing random people without any remorse. I don’t mind the changes themselves, I know they were a necessity, but the way they were done was terrible and soured the show for me.

As for RDA, from what I’ve seen, it’s not about thinking about him a s a some sort of the saint, but about mourning Gekko, as in RDA and Mike Greenburg’s influence on the show.

I don't like absolutely everything TPTB did, but I do still stand by my opinion that they did a great job given the materials, cast and budget they have. And, end of the day, even if you dismiss S9 and S10 and the subsequent movies, SGA etc., they still gave us 8 seasons of wonderful TV.

Truer words were never spoken. I do ignore most of the last 2 seasons of SG-1 (however there were episodes or scenes that I liked, I adored LITS for example), AOT and most of Continuum but I'll forever be grateful for the first 8 seasons and can't praise them enough.

I know it's considered more fanon than canon, but I always figured (even before being in fandom) from Secrets that Hammond and Jacob had been friends for quite some time (which, considering how few generals there actually are in the Air Force - though you wouldn't know it from the show - is fairly realistic). Hammond did clearly specially invite Jacob to the awards ceremony and I get the impression it was a personal invite more than a professional one. So it would stand to reason Hammond would have known Sam for some time. Plus at the beginning of To'kra Hammond observes that Sam is more like Jacob than she wants to admit (or some such) and later Hammond goes to Jacob to have what seems a personal conversation about Jacob's death and Sam. Both these also make me thing Hammond and Jacob (and Sam's) relationship goes much earlier than the beginning of the series.

You know, this is one of my pet peeves. It was made very clear in Secrets that while Hammond and Jacob’s friendship goes way back, George never knew Sam as a kid. She’s in turn surprised that they know each other and they have to explain to her how and when they met. There’s nothing on the show supporting the thesis that Hammond and Sam had known each other before she joined the program. Observation that she’s a lot like Jacob is easy to make after having known both of them for a few months, so it doesn’t prove anything. And Hammond goes into father mode very often with *all* members of SG-1, so it doesn’t prove anything either.

CHAIN REACTION

I must say I love this episode. It’s one of my all time favourites in fact, although it’s hard to explain why..probably because I’m such a Jack fangurl and this is a great episode for him, even if it features no team.

As for Sam and Jack, there’s really very little interaction between them, so I don’t think I can add anything to what was already said.

Anyway, I gotta go to my classes, so I’ll be back later to talk about CR some more. I hope.