Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[KrisRussel]

Why do you guys have the best discussions when I'm asleep or unavailable?
But I always have a blast catching up on everything

[Southern Red]

[mod snip]

The Lucious one [in the previous post] is inspired by Eri13. The 2nd one is inspired by Scary Kitty, and the 3rd by Southern Red. I'd also like to thank my family, the cast and crew........

Spoiler:

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Spoiler:

then I poked Sheppard with the banto stick. Then he said 'I'm gonna poke so hard you won't be able to walk straight'. Then McKay fainted

Spoiler:

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Spoiler:

OMG! That was their code for sex! I am so stupid

Spoiler:

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Spoiler:

:wraith queen: I don't hate you because you're human. I'm just jealous. My 2IC has a metal plate for a face. And no matter how hard I hint, he simply refuses to sit on my desk

And the award goes to......the one and only gateraid.

[SMB_BOOKS]

Good Morning Sparkies!

To all of you out there spreading the Sparky love in a variety of threads, may I just say.....

THANK YOU!

SPARKY IS ETERNAL!

[Southern Red]

Good Morning Sparkies!

To all of you out there spreading the Sparky love in a variety of threads, may I just say.....

THANK YOU!

SPARKY IS ETERNAL!

Hear hear! Since Valentine's Day is coming up, we need to make Sparky as obvious as all that pink and red.

[Eri13]

It's after 11pm which is late for this ol lady.

No, *whispers* not that thread. Someone on the Vegas thread said

Spoiler:

the Shep whump thread discussed the idea and decided it's not her.

And someone else I think also proclaimed that lots of Sparky shippers don't like Vegas which to them disproved my ship theory. That members of a certain shipper group hate Vegas because of ship. Well duh. But I must be wrong because after all, authorities have spoken.

Like I said, cranky. Good night all.

Uh, isn't the point of an AU...uh, AU? Which means, barring the restrictions of the AU, you can kinda do whatever you want? So how can anyone argue with certainty it is or it isn't? I think the point is is could be, and then how you want to intrepret it is how you want to interpret it.

Isn't it meant to be up to people's imaginations? It's an AU. They can go wild if they'd like.

Oh, well, whatever to them.

Good night. Hope you get all your crankiness out. sleep is good.

What she said.

[mod snip]

That kind of logic does not compute for me. I try to stay open minded and I embrace people with other viewpoints, I just don't take them as my own. I get frustrated and worn down going back and forth with people who just won't admit the other side has a point. You don't have to say you 'agree' with the assessment, just admit there IS another side.

The people who hate...them I don't get. I may not like particular pairings or particular characters--but I could never hate an actor. I don't know them! Granted, if an actor disses a show or a role I might think they were obnoxious, but I'd kinda suss them on their merry way and be done with them. But actors who enjoy what they're doing--even if they knock heads with TPTB--I could never hate. People who tie actors and characters together bother me. Yes, Torri turned down coming back in Season 5. From the little we know about the situation, there was obviously tension over her being released in Season 3. Even if you're disappointed she didn't reprise her role (and even some Weir fans have been), have some gosh darn respect for the fact that her character was torn down from a full-time regular to a guest star. I don't think anyone would be happy to be fired from their full-time job, then asked to come back and do a couple of projects because some of the clientele 'preferred' them--but only if they do those projects the way the boss who fired them wanted. Seriously, would you do that?

So, I stay here with happy people. Anyway, it's all said and done now. There is a potential movie, but otherwise everything is set as is, and I think people should interpret to their hearts content and not presume anything as set in stone except for what actually appears on-screen.

I just wanted to say that I'm a whumper (who doesn't post much though) and I see no reason the medic couldn't be Elizabeth.

Open minded ness. THANK YOU.

:lucious: OMFG Sheppard! Look at her. Seriously. LOOK AT HER. How can you deny your feelings?! She's drugged to the hilt and is still defending you!

MG said as much that in the writing of the ep, he didn't plan for Carson to die, it just kinda worked as the organic end point *applies agent orange to that thought process*

He was brave. Everyone knows John and Elizabeth are off limits I am actually surprised we didn't see more of him though. Considering how keen he was, do you really think 'this would split my focus' would put him off? It isn't exactly drop dead

I'm with Eri - this was lame lame lame. In all honesty, I didn't realise Koyla died when I watched this ep. It was so boring I actually fell asleep. At that point, Koyla hadn't appeared, so I was none the wiser. It was only when I saw a rerun a while later that I realised the shootout had occured.

Um, that cap is the BEST CAPTION EVER. *claps, claps*

Love that you fell asleep. Wish I had. Kolya might still be alive in my head.

Questions on Irresponsible (we'll make them humorous) coming later today.

[justhere1971]

I think this song expresses my feelings about folks who are back & forth on TH's decision to not accept the ONE episode offer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY3CehyfUko

[Eri13]

Irresponsible Questions

1) What were you expecting with the previews/synopsis/what you'd heard of this episode?

2) What did it feel like seeing Lucius Lavin again?

3) From time to time we get the 'rustic folk' storyline complete with pitchforks and taverns. How does this work for you generally? What about here?

4) Elizabeth only appears in the beginning of the story--why do you think the writers didn't include her in a story with both Lucius and Kolya? Fair or unfair?

5) Did any of the SGA-1 cast seem OOC in this episode? Or were they on target?

6) Do you think Kolya's personality was consistent with his previous appearances?

7) Something about this episode feels a little off--did you feel that way? If so, what do you think it is? (Please be specific--generalizations, i.e. 'writing', is not concise enough)

8) This is the first time we've seen a personal shield in a long while. How did you feel about its reappearance? Was it used effectively as a plot device?

9) *siggghhhhh* Kolya meets his end at John's hands in this episode...what did you think about the duel-type showdown? Befitting both men?

10) What would you have done to improve this episode?

--bonus Sparky--

Kolya mentions that 'he won't back Weir into a corner again'. What do you think he was thinking of that made him come to that decision? Was this a Sparky moment for your books?

[Flowerbud]

mod snip

You should come out and post. We are not meanies. We are all reasonable people and can agree to disagree except that this is a sparky thread in which we have fun and examine the nuances of the ship. A skill to develop is having tolerance for people with different viewpoints.

[Madeleine]

Some points which have come up...

This is a thread for celebrating Weir and Shep's friendship-and-then-some canon and fan-extrapolation relationship. It is NOT for criticising the people who do not see/like the signs that you see. It is not even for criticising people you believe are hostile to you. (By the same token, if you ever feel that there is a thread where you are being villified behind your backs, rest assured we would act on that also.)

If anyone wants to discuss the "Conversion Kiss" and wants to get the 'other side's' view, it might be best to do it in a more neutral sort of territory than this thread, where it's completely not on topic. (Eg the episode thread, or a new thread solely to discuss the kiss and whether it was violent/reciprocated/icky/hot/abusive/romantic/etc)

If you have a personal issue with another poster, please keep it to PM.

If you believe another poster has misinterpreted your view, the only proper place to set them straight is in the thread in which you were misrepresented.

Any queries, please PM

[Falcon Horus]

Why? Just curious.

Re: Mike Branton

Because I think he didn't want everything becoming all awkward between himself and Elizabeth, who is in essence still his boss even after she had a personal one-on-one with him. That's something that didn't change.

And no, it doesn't have to do with Sparky cause remember I'm only 10% Sparky. It's just one of the few pairings in TV-land that I can actually see together if they had ever written it that way.

[Scary Kitty]

Re: Mike Branton

Because I think he didn't want everything becoming all awkward between himself and Elizabeth, who is in essence still his boss even after she had a personal one-on-one with him. That's something that didn't change.

And no, it doesn't have to do with Sparky cause remember I'm only 10% Sparky. It's just one of the few pairings in TV-land that I can actually see together if they had ever written it that way.

Ah, that makes sense.

[Scary Kitty]

Let's stick with pretending it never happened

That'll work!

And then their PTW taketh away....

Karma, baby. They were so asking for it!

We have to include the credits too

Oh, that'll eat 30 seconds right there!

[Scary Kitty]

I think this song expresses my feelings about folks who are back & forth on TH's decision to not accept the ONE episode offer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY3CehyfUko

OMG, that just slays me!

[Erin87]

Lookie! I wrote something in the Vegas thread!

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...85#post9723085

And I was polite (for me) and everything!

Very nice response!

Yes, she definitely can't. That's the bugger. But! As I said before, the medic doesn't even have to be Elizabeth (but I'm saying she is, haha! Watch me being an arbiter of all things Sheppard) the whole point is that John in Vegas AU reacted the same way our John did after he lost Elizabeth. Not Nancy, not a random female character, certainly not Teyla, but Elizabeth. That's on screen and it's canon. Put the two and two together, because not everything in AU's is different, the most important things about a character remain the same.

I'll second that! I don't mind if the medic's not Elizabeth, but his reactions did definitely mirror those of our poor widower John, and it makes me feel good to believe it's her. AU=open for interpretation

:lucious: OMFG Sheppard! Look at her. Seriously. LOOK AT HER. How can you deny your feelings?! She's drugged to the hilt and is still defending you!

ROFL! That is SO hilarious! And true! Love it!

[Scary Kitty]

On to the Irresponsible Q&A!

1) What were you expecting with the previews/synopsis/what you'd heard of this episode?

I was cringing in anticipation of seeing Lucius again but I was hoping that Kolya's presence would mean that the episode wouldn't suck. Guess I was wrong on that score!

2) What did it feel like seeing Lucius Lavin again?

Seriously? I wanted to wash my eyes out with bleach.

3) From time to time we get the 'rustic folk' storyline complete with pitchforks and taverns. How does this work for you generally? What about here?

As most of the Pegasus Galaxy seems to be at a medieval/Renaissance-level of technology, I'm not surprised to see this kind of story crop up. There's always going to be someone out to make a buck at the expense of someone else who doesn't know any better. If there's one thing that Lucius is good at, it's being the slick snake oil salesman.

4) Elizabeth only appears in the beginning of the story--why do you think the writers didn't include her in a story with both Lucius and Kolya? Fair or unfair?

Given that the rest of the story takes place entirely off-world, it actually makes sense that she's not as much in this one. There's no reason for her to accompany the team since the reason for their mission doesn't require the presence of anyone with a diplomat/linguist skill set.

Still, it sucks that she couldn't have had more of a role in the episode that ended Kolya.

5) Did any of the SGA-1 cast seem OOC in this episode? Or were they on target?

I think they were more or less on target. Like you, Eri, I was kinda miffed at Teyla for seeming to forget about what happened to John the last time he tangled with Kolya. But I could also understand her reasoning about not wanting to get the civilians caught in the crossfire.

6) Do you think Kolya's personality was consistent with his previous appearances?

You betcha! Still hell-bent on killing Sheppard and willing to do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. It's really all he's got now, since he's still an outcast from the Genii.

7) Something about this episode feels a little off--did you feel that way? If so, what do you think it is? (Please be specific--generalizations, i.e. 'writing', is not concise enough)

I think the the episode was overcrowded. Having two essentially 'A' level storylines competing for attention over only 45 minutes, especially when one of those storylines was a continuation of a main character-villain rivalry dating back to Season 1, really kept breaking my focus. I kept wondering which story was supposed to be the important one, and which the supporting. I think this episode might have turned out better had it been just for Lucius, setting himself up as recurring comic relief (in somewhat of a similar vein as Maybourne on SG-1, perhaps).

8) This is the first time we've seen a personal shield in a long while. How did you feel about its reappearance? Was it used effectively as a plot device?

I was glad to see another one, as it's a reminder that there's all sorts of Ancient-built technology left abandoned in Pegasus for anyone to find. What irritated me was that this episode completely ignored the rules previously established for how the shield device works.

9) *siggghhhhh* Kolya meets his end at John's hands in this episode...what did you think about the duel-type showdown? Befitting both men?

John shooting Kolya fit the sort-of Indiana Jones or Han Solo-esque vibe I've gotten from the rivalry... but still, Kolya's been such a bad*ss villain over the years that he really deserved to get some sort of knock-down, drag-out fight first before getting to the shootout.

Spoiler:

Kinda like the big fight on the ledge with John, Michael and Teyla in The Prodigal. That would've rocked.

10) What would you have done to improve this episode?

Gotten Kolya the hell outta there and into his own damn episode where his death could be played for all it's worth, instead of shoehorned in between the slapstick from Lucius. Let the local town bully be the bad guy in this one.

--bonus Sparky--

Kolya mentions that 'he won't back Weir into a corner again'. What do you think he was thinking of that made him come to that decision? Was this a Sparky moment for your books?

Kolya had to be thinking back to the events of Common Ground, and though he was already estranged from the Genii government at the time of Coup d'Etat, he may have heard about what happened then as well.

I certainly think this was a Sparky moment. As many of us have observed, Kolya has definitely picked up on the strong bond between Sheppard and Weir, and he knows he can use it to his advantage. Even without Sheppard and Weir present in that scene, they've clearly cast a long shadow over how Kolya views relations with Atlantis.


Great questions, Eri!