Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

Irresponsible. Oh dear. Taken on a purely comedic level, it wasn't all that bad. There were some humorous moments. Maybe because unlike most I don't mind Lucius all that much. He's just fun to detest to me. And John handles him so well. I enjoyed the walk and talk with him and John when he kept coming up with ideas all of which John shot down. I thought Joe played that scene very well and showed his flair for comedy.

Did that sound like I was stretching? Um...I loved the channeling Clint Eastwood moments in the showdown. And everyone's amazement at John's quick draw.

On the negative side though it looked like everyone was wanting it to hurry up and be over. The actors all looked like they were smelling something that had spoiled. Could it have been lunch? Or just the script?

And the waste of Kolya I totally agree with. Robert Davi should have sued them.

[Eri13]

Irresponsible. Oh dear. Taken on a purely comedic level, it wasn't all that bad. There were some humorous moments. Maybe because unlike most I don't mind Lucius all that much. He's just fun to detest to me. And John handles him so well. I enjoyed the walk and talk with him and John when he kept coming up with ideas all of which John shot down. I thought Joe played that scene very well and showed his flair for comedy.

Did that sound like I was stretching? Um...I loved the channeling Clint Eastwood moments in the showdown. And everyone's amazement at John's quick draw.

On the negative side though it looked like everyone was wanting it to hurry up and be over. The actors all looked like they were smelling something that had spoiled. Could it have been lunch? Or just the script?

And the waste of Kolya I totally agree with. Robert Davi should have sued them.

At least he got pseudo-redeemed in S5.

I actually don't hate Lucius--I'm one of those who finds some fun Sparky in Irresistable--but having him serve as the vehicle to re-introduce, then help bump off, Kolya, was just.....erggggggghhhhhhhhhhh. Made me want to kick something.

[Southern Red]

At least he got pseudo-redeemed in S5.

I actually don't hate Lucius--I'm one of those who finds some fun Sparky in Irresistable--but having him serve as the vehicle to re-introduce, then help bump off, Kolya, was just.....erggggggghhhhhhhhhhh. Made me want to kick something.

That made a lot of us want to kick something and it wasn't our own asses. lol

Irresistible had some Sparky fun but it could have been so much more. Though jealous!John was worth it all. It tickled me that Elizabeth was the only one who seemed to capture John's attention with her reaction to Lucius and he to her. The "where's Elizabeth?" line and his face when Lucius said she was out making him a sandwich or whatever was priceless. He could have been thinking that she had never volunteered to do that for him. LOL

[Eri13]

That made a lot of us want to kick something and it wasn't our own asses. lol

Irresistible had some Sparky fun but it could have been so much more. Though jealous!John was worth it all. It tickled me that Elizabeth was the only one who seemed to capture John's attention with her reaction to Lucius and he to her. The "where's Elizabeth?" line and his face when Lucius said she was out making him a sandwich or whatever was priceless. He could have been thinking that she had never volunteered to do that for him. LOL

Hee!



It could have been super fun if they truly played up the ships. Though I think Sparky (and maybe McShep) got some nice treatment, if you choose to look at it that way--I absolutely loved some of John's expressions as he watches drugged-Elizabeth pander to Lucius:







He does get angry, doesn't he? I don't see it as 'jealousy' in the sense of 'hands off my girlfriend', but a complicated feeling of seeing Elizabeth act foolish, Lucius being all touchy-feely, and stuff. Irritation at how stupid everyone else is with this guy. But with Sparky-tinted glasses, I also like to think he's super muddled at seeing his confidante ignoring him and playing kissy-face at this goob.

[nogigglingmajor]

There have been people asking for a post Sunday fic... It just happens that I wrote one a couple of months ago to vent my frustatrations about that kiss *shudders*
Anyway, it's totally sparky and for people who want to read it, you can do so here:
Confessions

Nice fic, thanks. Speaking of Sunday have you all seen the youtube vid about that ep done to the song 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'? I just can't listen to that song anymore cause I always think of the ep and just end up crying...it's so sad!

[Erin87]

Work distraction?

I think the we get Air to Sea Missiles a lot: "when Word Of God simply states that a particular ship isn't going to happen." *giggle*

Nah, not a work distraction. Just a few spent Sunday morning hours. And yeah, we're practically under constant Air to Sea Missile bombardment.

Have you seen the Carson/Elizabeth scene where he teases her about going on a date? It is beyond cute.


The more you think about this episode, the more it seems all over the place. I really thought Teyla was talking about Carson at the beginning and they had a great scene later in the episode. John sure acted surprised that Ronon thought he and Teyla might get together, thus I thought Ronon was making sure he wouldn't be stepping on John's toes if he went after Teyla. And Teyla herself was invited to spend time with John and Ronon golfing, and she couldn't get away fast enough. None of that added up to J/T for me, let me tell you. I saw much more R/T and C/T. And despite the fact that J/E were separated most of the episode, the look John gave her at the end almost made up for that. You just know when he got back to Atlantis he went to be with her.

There's got to be fic about that. How about it SK? Got any post-Sunday recs?

Yeah, that scene was really cute. I don't know if you've all seen this video, but they use that scene to great Sparky advantage. Watch this, the Sparks Ignite Theatrical Trailer. It's really just...wow. That's all I could say after watching it the first time. (And then I watched it again.)

And totally agree with what you said about the episode. However I'd never thought about Carson being the one she was talking about. Hmmm....

No beards; mustaches are permitted within specific grooming guidelines. Wouldn't have made a difference for Mike; he was a civilian.

And yeah, Shep's hair is so a violation; but then, he wouldn't be Shep without his rule-breaking hair.

*sighs dreamily* Oh, the hair....

There have been people asking for a post Sunday fic... It just happens that I wrote one a couple of months ago to vent my frustatrations about that kiss *shudders*
Anyway, it's totally sparky and for people who want to read it, you can do so here:
Confessions

Thanks. It was great.

Yep, it looks like someone has to poke him with a long stick and remind him that he's supposed to look interested in her. No poking necessary with Elizabeth.

Ha! So true. He really did look like he kept forgetting.

Why did he die like a starfish?

As much as I love Kolya as a true villain, that line has made me laugh & laugh.

Me too! It was absolutely hilarious, Eri. I still laugh re-reading it. Good recap of a not so good episode.

I do have to agree about Irresistible. I thought that ep was pretty funny. It was one of the few complete comedies (if not the only one) they did. But Lucius really was just...*shudder* in Irresponsible. And a complete waste of a villain of Kolya's caliber. That two-parter idea sounded great. (and in a perfect world (and in some alternate reality it did! ) that could have been the event that finally prompted John and Elizabeth to finally confess/realize their feelings for one another. After once again nearly losing each other to Kolya they both finally wake up! *sighs and shakes head* If only, if only...)

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies!

And sometimes when God hands down a decision that smites your ship, you turn into an atheist. LOL

Hah!

That whole Mike thing in Sunday seemed to point directly to Sparky. Mike even seemed like a badly done John to me. Especially the part about not being able to be friends. A good writer would have written that as foreshadowing for the eventual realization that Elizabeth and John could indeed not be just friends. *cue romantic music*

"Paging Carl Binder..."

Also my thoughts exactly on Sunday. I don't think MG thought it through on how all this would come across.

I don't think any of them did. If they had... Carson wouldn't have died.

Most of us mark the fatal diagnosis to Sunday. In addition to killing Carson it just ruined everything else. And it started out so well with all the lovely character moments. The golf scene is worth the torture of all the rest. And even Mike could be a huge Sparky anvil.

My irrational hatred for Sheyla has faded. I wish we could have been allowed to enjoy the friendship between them that might have been. Like between Ronon and Teyla. But continuously trying to ship people who are unshippable was just...well...who was it that said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Like that. Way back in the day when I was very naive in the ways of fandom I saw Sheyla as a red herring. Stupid me for using my knowledge of writing on a fan site. I should have known the rules don't apply to TV writing. But son of a gun, look how it turned out. I guess I was right in the first place. LOL

Einstein.

And of course the rules apply to TV writing. TPTW just ignore them until they get the show canceled out from under them.

Yep, it looks like someone has to poke him with a long stick and remind him that he's supposed to look interested in her. No poking necessary with Elizabeth.

Nope. Because John just can't get his mind off Lizzie.

Yes, and let's keep it that way. I kinda like the way the ending is, with Elizabeth out there plus, I'm actually digging some of Malozzi's brainstorms from that interview of her real-real self still being stuck in space for John to go and get. I think if we just keep sailing without any major attacks on anything, we can continue to sail into the sunset. *whistles innocently*

As am I; dunno if anyone remembers or not, but I had suggested a very similar scenario (the real Weir still being alive and stashed away somewhere) following Mallozzi's comments in his blog after TMC. It's certainly good fanfic fodder...

I was reading my LOST compendium over the weekend, and one of the show runners there said there are four developmental stages for a story--brainstorming, writing, shooting, editing. He pointed it out because he was talking about what happens in the writers room initially may be totally changed by what happens through shooting and editing. On LOST, he used that to describe why certain ideas, including ships and character interactions, end up sounding great in planning stages but just don't make it through to the finished product. And why some storylines and plot developments change so much--because shooting/acting and editing change it through their interpretations of the script.

In the case of Sunday, I think Gero wrote what he wanted, but through shooting and editing it ended up being not exactly what he envisioned. Which explains why he's gung-ho on the commentary of it meaning this when everyone else is kinda going 'huh?'

*snickers*

And admittedly, that could be part of what happened with the Weir/Replicator storyline; the ideas may have looked good on paper, but just weren't executed well when it got to the filming/editing stage.

[Scary Kitty]

I didn't get to the lunch part of the Elizabeth/Mike scenes but from what you're saying it actually makes sense that Mike could be a Sparky anvil. Just another stepping stone in the road of (to?) Sparky.

Yup. But then, everything is a stepping stone in the road to Sparky.

You're right; TPTB haven't said anything to that point, have they. I just remember JF saying 'I don't think there's any sexual tension with Dr Weir' -- and that was, what, way back in s1 before I think the UST became more apparent in season two and three. People say S2 and S3 were the Mcshep show, but to me there was plenty of Sparky-show in there, too.

S2 and S3 were definitely the Sparky show to me. Sparky and the Three Musketeers, actually.

Wasn't this, like also used as a Gero Sheyla-evidence scene?

Yup. That was THE infamous Sheyla anvil. Sure wasn't very impressive, was it?

[Scary Kitty]

Irresponsible.

I have to admit, the title is appropriate. But not in the way that TPTW wanted us to think!

Because let's face it, the killing off of Kolya in the first of SGA's quadrilogy of stupidest character deaths ever (the others, of course, being Carson, Elizabeth and Kate) was Grade-A STUPID.

Lucius didn't irritate me as much in this one as he did in Irresistible... maybe that's because he wasn't slobbering all over Lizzie and Teyla this time.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%203/irresponsible0008.jpg
Presuming Carson is going to run tests on the superhero guy? Or was this one of those episodes that, to fill out Paul M's 'regular' status they had to put him in?

That's my guess.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%203/irresponsible0024.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...nsible0031.jpg
Elizabeth continues her reign of looking amazing. Too bad she's only in this scene.

Though given the stupidity of the rest of the episode, perhaps that's a good thing.

The problem is, the stories he's telling all happen to be, well, lies. Are we surprised? No. Ironically, the real hero of all of them is sitting across from Lucius, chewing sexily on a piece of grass. Well, at least we get that image out of this episode.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...nsible0097.jpg
Guess John doesn't care if Lucius brings up that damn Iratus Bug.

Thank goodness for small favors. And JoeF's natural 'I'm too sexy for my shirt' factor.

Our Sparky moment comes courtesy a discussion between the group and Kolya. Kolya mentions using the captured team as bait for Doctor Weir.



I love the fact he mentions 'backing Doctor Weir into a corner' because we ALL know how he backed Elizabeth into a corner last time. *sighSparky* I also like his mention of them being allies--and darmnit, it should have happened, much as I like Ladon Radim.

That? Could've been sooo delicious. Would definitely have put a different spin on subsequent episodes featuring the Genii as powers in the shadows, like Harmony and Inquisition.

And honestly--as I mentioned in the beginning, this episode wouldn't bother me that much if it weren't for the fact that Kolya was killed--in the manner in which he was killed. Kolya didn't deserve this. Kolya deserved a kick-butt two-parter that featured him making a final siege on Atlantis or allying with Wraith/Replicators or overthrowing Ladon or something--forcing him to confront Weir, McKay, and, of course, Sheppard, with all three of them pushed to the end of their rope and John and Kolya man-fighting it out with their fists until Kolya dies at the end of a bloody, cheer-inducing thunk fest. Considering how involved with Kolya Elizabeth was, she totally deserved to be there when he died. Heck, the man ties John and Elizabeth together half the time.

Oh, HELL YEAH!!!!! Even Michael got a better death than Kolya, for pity's sake!

Made of fail is right!

Happy trails in hell, Acastus Kolya. You were an awesome, *sskicking enemy whose reign of terror was cut short before your time. *salutes*

[KrisRussel]

Nice fic, thanks. Speaking of Sunday have you all seen the youtube vid about that ep done to the song 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'? I just can't listen to that song anymore cause I always think of the ep and just end up crying...it's so sad!

Thank you.
The 'Sunday, Bloody Sunday' song also always reminds me of the ep... very sad... I used to love that song, now it chokes me up every time...

[KrisRussel]

Yeah, that scene was really cute. I don't know if you've all seen this video, but they use that scene to great Sparky advantage. Watch this, the Sparks Ignite Theatrical Trailer. It's really just...wow. That's all I could say after watching it the first time. (And then I watched it again.)

OMG!! That vid is awesome!! Totally awesome!! Thanks for sharing.

[KrisRussel]

There is another discontinuity in 'Irresponsible' (if I'm not mistaken). I thought it was established in 'Hide and Seek' that once the personal shield thingy had attached itself to the wearer, it couldn't be used by someone else, so how is John able to use it instead of the irritating dude?

[Reiko]

For the man at the heart of SGA's irrefutably BEST mid-season two parter--The Storm & The Eye--the 'death' he receives in this episode just appalls me. Acastus Kolya (and Robert Davi)--my friend, you deserved better.

This had to be one of the worst contrived villain deaths in history. And what's really bad? It wasn't just in a bad episode. It was in a really bad filler episode with generlaly no purpose. They could have made up a villain-of-the-week. Instead, they shoehorned in Kolya -- a character who deserves much better.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%203/irresponsible0008.jpg
Presuming Carson is going to run tests on the superhero guy? Or was this one of those episodes that, to fill out Paul M's 'regular' status they had to put him in?

Regular status or something else, I'm not complaining. He should actually go offworld more often. Oh, and he's cute, too!

Along with Elizabeth. Like I've said, they should be pernament offworld team members.

SGA-1 heads home. As pointed out to me in the transcript, Carson/Teyla shippers squee as Carson puts his hand on Teyla's shoulders.

Yay!

Besides that, I think you pretty much summed up what I think of the episode.

[Scary Kitty]

There have been people asking for a post Sunday fic... It just happens that I wrote one a couple of months ago to vent my frustatrations about that kiss *shudders*
Anyway, it's totally sparky and for people who want to read it, you can do so here:
Confessions

Just finished reading this... ohhhhh yeah, that's what I'm talking about! How appropriate that Rodney so knows. Take that, Mike Branton!

[Erin87]

OMG!! That vid is awesome!! Totally awesome!! Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome! And it is a truly awesome vid. It's just amazing to me how well they fit the dialogue and the clips together. I was practically hyperventilating when I finished watching it the first time. I think I remember shrieking how much I wanted that to be a real movie. And it would be suuuch a good movie! Ahh! *calms down and sighs* ... Sparky is wonderful.