Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Liv]

I REALLY love the mentoring relationship between Jack and Sam. You know, the one you see in roughly 3 eps in 8 years. I love it when she's being negative and panicking a bit in Solitudes, and he's having to keep her focused. I love it when she's trying to reset the panel in Descent (toward the end) and he's telling her "lots of time, Carter, all the time in the world", like he's coaching her on how to not let the situation get the best of her. I love it when she's trying to brief everybody in Fallen and he keeps making snide comments and she's all, "Again, as the Colonel is well aware..."

Yes, I liked that too. Such a wasted opportunity. <sigh>

I even thought it was cute in Season 1 when she had a sort of hero-worship feeling toward him, and there was even a bit of flirting, but it was straightforward, getting-to-know-you stuff. Everything was fine until sometime in Season 3... probably Point of View (ugh) is where the shift became felt.

Well, I got knocked over the head with it in Divide and Conquer. I still try my best to stay away from that episode. It was such a What kind of freaky Universe have I stumbled into here? - moment. Before that I really didn't see anything. In my mind there was nothing to see. Of course, now when I go back and watch s1-3 I can't help but see ship, even if it might not be intentional.

Maybe they thought she was too much like Daniel, and that's why they took away her passion for saving lives or freeing people, and just gave her the standard Wonder Woman crush on boss instead. Or maybe it's that the last time a female writer was on staff was somewhere in Season 2-3.

I don't think it was because of a similarity with Daniel, I just think it was a combination of what the TBTB perceived of as romantic chemistry between Carter and Jack and yes, I do think that they perhaps felt that they needed to go down the lovey-dovey lane between two of the main characters. I don't understand why The Powers think this is a good idea, in general. It didn't work on the The X-Files, for one. Many more examples of that, I'm sure. Moonlighting, maybe? Didn't see all of that, but I've heard comments about it.

Ah, that was a nice rant. I feel better.

Ranting is good for the soul, I think.

[Gaterelle]

Thank you, Madeleine. I think I understand and I will try to use my language appropriately.
Just let me know if I write anything over the top and I will remove it.

And I'm glad that it's ok to say ones mind here without being censored. )
I'm not the type of person who does personal attacks. I dislike Sam/Jack ship, not the people who like it.

[puddlejumper747]

Whoa...
::{pokes head in, looks around cautiously}::
Never noticed THIS thread around before... are you sure it's really safe?
And is it strictly Sam/Jack anti-ship discussion... or is it more like Sam/Pete pro-shippers?
Because, you know, I've had some rather unpleasant experiences with these sorts of things...
One can never really be too cautious in these matters...

[ShadowMaat]

This is anti S/J ship. You don't have to like Pete, but you don't have to hate him, either. There's a separate thread for pro Sam/Pete ship.

[puddlejumper747]

Nope, no such thing as a Protected Thread here. Instead we have an On Topic rule and a Respect Other Posters rule. The first means that posting in support of S/J is off-topic* and the second means that the people who post anti-S/J stuff in here should not be made to feel bad for their tastes and might get modded if they do.

No such thing as a "Protected Thread"... interesting. It makes sense though, and it sounds fair. I'll have to try to remember that great explanation for the next time someone brings the topic up. Hey... and maybe THAT'S why I couldn't find any info on "Protected Threads" in the FAQ a few months back... hmmm...

This is anti S/J ship. You don't have to like Pete, but you don't have to hate him, either. There's a separate thread for pro Sam/Pete ship.

[breathes easily]
Whew! Thanks for the quick response, ShadowMatt!
It's great to know there are threads out there, even for this!
NO JACK/SAM SHIP!!!! HORRAY!!!!

[NightGloom]

Hahaha! Yay! Dancing banana!

Yup, all anti-Sam/Jack ship in one way or another. I'm anti-any ship. Well, Daniel/Sha're were fine cause that was in the movie and all, but developing ships are bad. I think. I dunno, I'm kinda in a sugar high right now- 30 Pixie Stix!

[yoojoo]

Dont know why i am posting here? i am a shipper but i just thought i would come say hi to all the........anti shippers???..........noromos????............people who dont like that relationship??? sorry, im bad with names !! You guys look cool enough even tho we dont agree on some things. plus you make me laugh and if ya make me laugh ya get points in my book!!

Anyways, i didnt know where to post this until now when i saw betacandy mention it. The whole mentoring thing was cool in the first season and there was definitly some hero worship going on a little. It made both characters look more real and made me like them more. It was kinda funny!! It actually happened b/t the actors too, which i found hillarious for some reason. They all thought RDA was the acting god at first. LOL!! but now they are (the characters) grown up a little and she realizes that the guy has his flaws and all so it has definitly mellowed out. But every once in awhile, (even tho i know it won't happen b/c jack almost always makes the right decisions and its just not the way the characters are written), I want Sam to just totally disagree with him and make her voice heard about it!! i mean like disobey his orders and all!!!!! Like jack did with hammond sometimes!! Daniel does it, even teal'c does it and dag nabbit she should to!! I know she wont cus she is "the perfect solider" and she could get "reprimanded" I just want equal oppurtunity jack bugging cus its hilarious when it happens!! They should all get a chance to give him hell!! Daniel and carter can intentionally techno babble him some more and teal'c can just raise and eyebrow and say indeed to everything he says!! More irritating jack!! those were the days!!

anyways, if this was off topic then i am sorry, i just didnt know where to post it and well........ i just really wanted to come say hello so.......... If it needs to be erased or moved or whatever then just let me know.

[Beta Candy]

Yoojoo, I think it's really cool that we agree on something while we disagree about ship. She used to argue with him in Season 1 a little, and I never thought she was going to get reprimanded for it. You'd think as time went by, she'd have felt MORE comfortable giving him a little grief now and then, but it was the opposite.

[yoojoo]

I KNOW!! The walking on egg shells thing that they were doing for awhile was giving me a head ache!! hey you jack, tell her to stop with the technobabble and start speaking english........ and you sam tell him that lettin that guy die against the stargate was a crock of.....crap!! and that technobabble is your language so he should just carry around a dictionary!!! They should all just argue a little more cus it makes for some funny scenes!! I think she never gets reprimanded b/c he usually respects her judgement on things even when it is a little irreverant. It reminds me of the phrase we tell parents "you are just getting payed back through you kids for what you did to your parents when you were little"
He gave hammond crap so she should do the same to him.

he he he.....that was fun to write

[Madeleine]

I agree, Yoojoo and Betacandy. I'd like to see Sam have professional disagreements with Jack like Daniel does, and although I think it would be largely out of character for her to go off on her own initiative counter to protocol like the guys so often have, I'm sure TPTB could find a way to write it believable. It would be a good way for the show to address her promotion.

I don't think it'll happen as long as TPTB want there to be ship. In other words I think it'll never happen. But it would be nice.

[Beta Candy]

Yep, that's the thing. If she gave Jack even 1/4 the attitude he gave Hammond, it would make her more interesting and believable without being insubordinate.

On the Season 7 commentaries, Robert Cooper and Amanda Tapping have both said, in their own words, the ship can't go beyond what it is on the show. That may relieve some minds who are concerned what we've seen so far isn't the limit.

However, even with just what we've seen on the show, what really bugs me is that the relationship Sam and Jack DO have is very interesting, but that relationship is continually pushed aside in favor of the relationship they CAN'T have. Do they even appreciate the relationship they DO have? I think so, but TPTB rarely show us that - they're too busy parading Shippy the Big Pink Elephant through the living room.

[LoneStar1836]

Yeah, I too wish they would give Carter more of a chance to show off her new leadership skills, per say. I mean she already had them; we just didn't really get to see them. Give her a chance to flex her muscles as the leader of the team. We only got a tiny glimpse of it in “Zero Hour” and “Icon”, but I want more. Otherwise, what’s the point of the promotion and her being in command of SG-1 in the field if you don’t write it in the show, and give us a chance to appreciate it. At this point in the show, though, I don’t see Carter actively standing up and butting heads with Jack about command decisions. I think it would be interesting and would like TPTB to write that particular aspect into the show to add to her character, but at the same time I think it kind of goes against her character. She’s pretty straitlaced military and wouldn’t argue with her superiors, where as Jack had a more casual attitude with Hammond. But to the detriment of the character, TPTB would rather the S/J ship goo-goo eyes at each other than have a strong Sam that can lead the team without Jack or occasionally confront him about command decisions. But in order for them to do that they first must actually write that big, round, spinny thing back into the show. TBTP can keep their S/J ship, I want the Stargate back. Down with S/J ship! Though surprisingly I think there has not been quite as much of it as I was expecting this season so far. With the emphasis being on so far.

However, even with just what we've seen on the show, what really bugs me is that the relationship Sam and Jack DO have is very interesting, but that relationship is continually pushed aside in favor of the relationship they CAN'T have.

Nicely said. I could not have said it better myself so thank you for saying it for me. I would rather see her professional relationship developed more rather than her personal life or what the PTB would like to be her personal life. Gag.

[Gaterelle]

I just want to post my daily rant of Jack/Sam ship: Can we please delete Divide & Conquer from the memories of all mankind?! I mean, if nothing else because it sucks. bigtime.

[Gaterelle]

Oh and I LOVE the dancing banana!!

[yoojoo]

i have a love/hate relationship going on with that bananna right now!! LOL!! I hate it for obvious reasons but i love it cus its just so gosh darn cute and HILLARIOUS!!!

DAMN IT!! if i wasnt a shipper i would steal it and take it home with me........but alas, i can not!!! Stupid beliefs!!! why do they always have to get in the way of my fun!!!!