Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Beta Candy]

LOL! Shippy, the big white elephant in the living room. We try to talk around him and pretend he's not there, but he is, and he's smelly.

[Madeleine]

I know what you mean. I've been getting the same feeling ever since Evolution. I think the music that they play pretty offten doesn't help, in that respect.

[LoneStar1836]

They were replaced by giant evil mutant killer shapeshifting time traveling squirrel monsters.

You forgot the vacuum cleaner that sucked out their brains first before they were replaced.

Yeah, but I think that was a crowbar I saw being used in D&C to ramp up the "ship" *and* drive a wedge in fandom.

They were hit in the head with the big wrench first, and then they decided to have a party with the crowbar.

Before that I rather liked the occasional flirty UST between Jack and Sam but after D&C I just began to view their "shippy" scenes as awkward.

Same here. I like "Solitudes" and can fortunately still view it with the ship glasses off. Sort of.

Blah. Don't get me started on the shippy ones in Evolution. A serious waste of RDA's time.

BUT at this point I'm pretty sure they are going to do the shippy ending thing. I just hope it's subtle because in spite of the calls for a big heavy love scene I still think something subtle would be more in keeping with the show.

If it must exists, just give them some fishing rods and be done with it. That is another reason I don't like ship. They have totally ruined the concept of fishing in the show. I love to fish, and could spend the whole day at the lake fishing for actual fish, but obviously fish are not what interest Jack so I'd rather not go fishing with him.

Um, don't want to say anything I shouldn't, but they are talking about doing a straight to DVD movie that takes place in Season 2. And have you read spoilers for the end of 8?

Yeah, read about them doing a movie. I'm trying to avoid spoilers at all cost for the episodes because I don't want to get worked up over the shippy ending if there is one. I have avoided "Threads" spoilers, but reading general comments here and there about it, I'm going to probably dislike part of that episode for the fact that they are

Spoiler:

going to screw the Daniel storyline part by including ship crud. Yuck. I've been waiting all this time for some kind of acknowledgement of the whole Daniel ascended arc, and it cruelly gets tossed in with Sam/Jack/Pete mess. Or at least that's what I have gleaned from various conversations around the board.

I've been getting the same feeling ever since Evolution. I think the music that they play pretty offten doesn't help, in that respect.

Ditto.

[ShadowMaat]

You forgot the vacuum cleaner that sucked out their brains first before they were replaced.

I'm in denial about the vacuum cleaner.

They were hit in the head with the big wrench first, and then they decided to have a party with the crowbar.

So that's what happened to Siler's wrench! That's probably also why we haven't seen it for a while- getting rid of the evidence/weapon. *sigh* I miss that wrench...

As for the movie... they're trying to go back and recapture old glory. I don't think it will work. I think that the fact they feel it necessary to go back in time to tell a story says that they know they've screwed up the show so badly that it's nigh on unsalvageable in terms of good storylines- particularly ones which are "good enough" for a movie.

As far as Threads goes.... it's par for the course that some of the Daniel stories with the greatest potential of late always get frelled over because of that other element.

[astronomicalchick]

I'm in denial about the vacuum cleaner.




So that's what happened to Siler's wrench! That's probably also why we haven't seen it for a while- getting rid of the evidence/weapon. *sigh* I miss that wrench...

As for the movie... they're trying to go back and recapture old glory. I don't think it will work. I think that the fact they feel it necessary to go back in time to tell a story says that they know they've screwed up the show so badly that it's nigh on unsalvageable in terms of good storylines- particularly ones which are "good enough" for a movie.

As far as Threads goes.... it's par for the course that some of the Daniel stories with the greatest potential of late always get frelled over because of that other element.

I agree, I'd much rather see the full Daniel moments and lots of team stuff, then see Carter and Jack's love life. I'm all for ship being off screen and in the realm of fanfic and I like playing with my shippy pals, but I just think it's been handled really clumsily by the writers. It's either being pushed in your face or being completely ignored. I didn't like the Pete character (don't bite me Shadow!) because of the way he was written and that fact that a really important story was overlooked, I mean Osiris had been Daniel's worst nightmare for ages and it was just pushed into 20 minutes.

Don't even get me started on the rest of season 7 and the erosion of Sam Carter's character...

[Liv]

I have avoided "Threads" spoilers, but reading general comments here and there about it, I'm going to probably dislike part of that episode for the fact that they are

Spoiler:

going to screw the Daniel storyline part by including ship crud. Yuck. I've been waiting all this time for some kind of acknowledgement of the whole Daniel ascended arc, and it cruelly gets tossed in with Sam/Jack/Pete mess. Or at least that's what I have gleaned from various conversations around the board.

I am having much of the same reservations towards that particular episode, because I'm worried that it's gonna be a Chimera Redux. Could be they'll surprise me. Could be they have some big twist in store. Could be, but somehow I doubt it.

Spoilers for Threads and Chimera:

Spoiler:

I too have waited a long time to finally get some answers about what actually happened to Daniel while he was ascended and I really don't want to see that get sideswept in favor of more shippy business. As far as I can tell there will be even more of the "will they/won't they"? More sidestepping. More ambiguous scenes. More of the no resolving kind.
Just like in Chimera. There was so much they could have done with the Sarah/Osiris storyline. So much potential. Instead there was only a tiny scene at the end between Daniel and Sarah. What happened to her? How exactly did life as a host to Osiris affect her? Why even bring her back if there would be no resolution to her arc? And I don't see her being free of Osiris as actual resolution.
It could still happen, I suppose, but that would be too little, too late, IMO. Wouldn't it seem plausible that Daniel, and for that matter the rest of the staff of the Stargate program, would have some on-screen interest in Sarah formerly-known-as Osiris?

[astronomicalchick]

I am having much of the same reservations towards that particular episode, because I'm worried that it's gonna be a Chimera Redux. Could be they'll surprise me. Could be they have some big twist in store. Could be, but somehow I doubt it.

Spoilers for Threads and Chimera:

Spoiler:

I too have waited a long time to finally get some answers about what actually happened to Daniel while he was ascended and I really don't want to see that get sideswept in favor of more shippy business. As far as I can tell there will be even more of the "will they/won't they"? More sidestepping. More ambiguous scenes. More of the no resolving kind.
Just like in Chimera. There was so much they could have done with the Sarah/Osiris storyline. So much potential. Instead there was only a tiny scene at the end between Daniel and Sarah. What happened to her? How exactly did life as a host to Osiris affect her? Why even bring her back if there would be no resolution to her arc? And I don't see her being free of Osiris as actual resolution.
It could still happen, I suppose, but that would be too little, too late, IMO. Wouldn't it seem plausible that Daniel, and for that matter the rest of the staff of the Stargate program, would have some on-screen interest in Sarah formerly-known-as Osiris?

What she said!

[Mr Prophet]

They were replaced by giant evil mutant killer shapeshifting time traveling squirrel monsters.

On crack. (Not you, Shadow; the squirrels)

Ah, anti-ship - if only our anti-ship could annihilate with their ship, creating free-floating plot energy untainted by either gooey-eyes or bitterness. But no.

So here's what I always used to say to square the PTB's mad insistence that there was an attraction between these two people who plainly have all the chemistry of a noble gas:

Okay; there is a smidge of attraction along with the friendship and respect that has developed. You only need to peruse the forum a little to see that they're both fanciable persons.
But; regulations won't let them be together if they're in the same chain of command.
So; one of them could have asked for a tranfer after Divide and Conquer.
But; they didn't.
Therefore; whatever they feel for each other, they love their jobs more than each loves the other.

These people are more fulfilled by their work than they ever would be by each other. Fine. This is not the stirring of strings on a windswept fellside and ain't no-one picking up a Bookie for Most Troubled Romantic Lead even. There's a couple of uncomfortable moments as they each remember that they once pictured the other naked, or that whole cro-mag mating drive thing, but that's all.

Right?

I wish.

These days...Oi! What can you do but try to ignore it and think happy thoughts. I haven't even bothered with most of Season 7 or any of Season 8 except to read transcripts. I caught a bit of Space Race the other day, but even when they're focusing on Sam the gear-head speed freak she's boring.

Thinking about the extra shippiness on Threads, I suppose the PTB - or can we go with IIC in re. ship, at least on this thread? - would argue that there has to be a B-story so that the rest of the team gets coverage, but honestly, how much do Daniel and Teal'c get outside their own episodes these days?

Since this is my first post in the thread, I may go off on one. Please bear with me.

And what's up with this 'Lieutenant-Colonel Carter'? Someone argued it was a promotion in recognition of her technical skill, but she hasn't been a technical officer for years; she's a field officer and as such she barely warrants Major on her current behaviour. I think that the Sam Carter who made Major five years ago - remember her? blonde lass; tough; good in a crisis - would have been a great team commander, but unfortunately she got replaced at some point with this drippy incompetent who can barely make a decision without consulting the all-wise Jack.

I think I know why Jack is so cold about the whole thing as well. Claims in Season 1 to the contrary, it's pretty tough to buy him as forty-eight. The age gap is pretty obvious these days and if he made any advances - or even responded - it would look a bit 'funny Uncle'. Thus the ship is driven - driven right over my poor, broken-backed series, that is - by Sammy the Wonderdrip, who wouldn't even be Sammy the Wonderdrip if they gave her something to work with besides 'oh Jack, how I long to be with you you big hunk of man you'.

Gah!

If only we had a Stargate we could time some solar flares and send a note on a brick back to the PTB, saying: "Relationships thrive on dynamism! If the Air Force won't let them do anything, it can only possibly be boring!"

Ships are like sharks - if they aren't moving, they're just so much unpleasant-tasting dead meat. It's a simple premise: if your leads aren't going to get it on in any sense, don't ship. LEave it to the subtext if anywhere. If they'd worked up to having an actual, clandestine, court-martialable relationship by Season 3, they might have made something interesting of it. I don't think it would have worked, myself, but we'll never know. As is, since the USAF would withdraw their support if that happened, they just circle madly and drive everyone insane, like wasps buzzing round a light just out of reach so you can't quite smash them to bits!

Smash! With smashing!

[Critter]

I'm not starting a Jonas thread because I am too bitter and depressed over the entire topic and don't wish to rub any more salt in my (and others') wounds than has already been ground in there by TPTB and half of fandom.

I'm not starting a Jonas thread because I don't want to deal with all the nasty people who won't be able to resist the urge to drop in and tell us how Jonas sucks rocks and deserves to die a graphic death (complete with animated smilies) and how much better the show is without him.

I'm not starting a Jonas thread because I don't want to watch it sink into obscurity after only a handful of posts.

As for the banana... I must have missed the "no ship" comment. Sorry. I get distracted because I've been tracking down lots of smilies and I most often see the dancing banana associated with some pretty obscene things... so I try and tune it out. *shudder*

I have not spoken nor heard of one person that wouldn't love to see Jonas back...but I'm sure you are right, if you start a thread they will come out of the wood work. What is it about him that he's not to be seen anymore? I know, totally off topic but Shadow started it!

[Mr Prophet]

I have not spoken nor heard of one person that wouldn't love to see Jonas back...but I'm sure you are right, if you start a thread they will come out of the wood work. What is it about him that he's not to be seen anymore? I know, totally off topic but Shadow started it!

Oh, they're around. They pop up every now and again and say things like: "Well, Season 7 might not be as good as Season 6, but at least we've got Daniel back instead of that dreadful Jonas." Well; some of them make more sense than that, but...

Anyway, I'm pro-Jonas, I'll say that now, although I am anti-Kyanna Cyr. I don't think anyone should date someone with the same haircut as them; just look at Brian May and Anita Dobson.

Apparently the PTB decided not to bring him back because he was too similar to Daniel, but frankly that's only if they don't write them right in the first place.

[astronomicalchick]

I have not spoken nor heard of one person that wouldn't love to see Jonas back...but I'm sure you are right, if you start a thread they will come out of the wood work. What is it about him that he's not to be seen anymore? I know, totally off topic but Shadow started it!

I agree, we should have a Jonas thread and if people don't like it tough. I love Daniel but I also loved how Jonas brought a different feel to the series. I can't see why a democratic forum couldn't have a Jonas thread.

I'll do it if you want.

[ShadowMaat]

I'll do it. Just remember that I warned you all...

[astronomicalchick]

On crack. (Not you, Shadow; the squirrels)

Ah, anti-ship - if only our anti-ship could annihilate with their ship, creating free-floating plot energy untainted by either gooey-eyes or bitterness. But no.

So here's what I always used to say to square the PTB's mad insistence that there was an attraction between these two people who plainly have all the chemistry of a noble gas:

Okay; there is a smidge of attraction along with the friendship and respect that has developed. You only need to peruse the forum a little to see that they're both fanciable persons.
But; regulations won't let them be together if they're in the same chain of command.
So; one of them could have asked for a tranfer after Divide and Conquer.
But; they didn't.
Therefore; whatever they feel for each other, they love their jobs more than each loves the other.

These people are more fulfilled by their work than they ever would be by each other. Fine. This is not the stirring of strings on a windswept fellside and ain't no-one picking up a Bookie for Most Troubled Romantic Lead even. There's a couple of uncomfortable moments as they each remember that they once pictured the other naked, or that whole cro-mag mating drive thing, but that's all.

Right?

I wish.

These days...Oi! What can you do but try to ignore it and think happy thoughts. I haven't even bothered with most of Season 7 or any of Season 8 except to read transcripts. I caught a bit of Space Race the other day, but even when they're focusing on Sam the gear-head speed freak she's boring.

Thinking about the extra shippiness on Threads, I suppose the PTB - or can we go with IIC in re. ship, at least on this thread? - would argue that there has to be a B-story so that the rest of the team gets coverage, but honestly, how much do Daniel and Teal'c get outside their own episodes these days?

Since this is my first post in the thread, I may go off on one. Please bear with me.

And what's up with this 'Lieutenant-Colonel Carter'? Someone argued it was a promotion in recognition of her technical skill, but she hasn't been a technical officer for years; she's a field officer and as such she barely warrants Major on her current behaviour. I think that the Sam Carter who made Major five years ago - remember her? blonde lass; tough; good in a crisis - would have been a great team commander, but unfortunately she got replaced at some point with this drippy incompetent who can barely make a decision without consulting the all-wise Jack.

I think I know why Jack is so cold about the whole thing as well. Claims in Season 1 to the contrary, it's pretty tough to buy him as forty-eight. The age gap is pretty obvious these days and if he made any advances - or even responded - it would look a bit 'funny Uncle'. Thus the ship is driven - driven right over my poor, broken-backed series, that is - by Sammy the Wonderdrip, who wouldn't even be Sammy the Wonderdrip if they gave her something to work with besides 'oh Jack, how I long to be with you you big hunk of man you'.

Gah!

If only we had a Stargate we could time some solar flares and send a note on a brick back to the PTB, saying: "Relationships thrive on dynamism! If the Air Force won't let them do anything, it can only possibly be boring!"

Ships are like sharks - if they aren't moving, they're just so much unpleasant-tasting dead meat. It's a simple premise: if your leads aren't going to get it on in any sense, don't ship. LEave it to the subtext if anywhere. If they'd worked up to having an actual, clandestine, court-martialable relationship by Season 3, they might have made something interesting of it. I don't think it would have worked, myself, but we'll never know. As is, since the USAF would withdraw their support if that happened, they just circle madly and drive everyone insane, like wasps buzzing round a light just out of reach so you can't quite smash them to bits!

Smash! With smashing!

Found this post very interesting. I've only been watching Stargate for a year now, and I'm a kind of mild-mannered shipper, who likes hanging out with (some of the) shippers just being daft, but cos I've only been watching a year and I watched all the first six seasons over a period of 9 months and therefore everything was condensed, I wonder if I had been watching it from the start I wouldn't have died of boredom...

[Mr Prophet]

Found this post very interesting. I've only been watching Stargate for a year now, and I'm a kind of mild-mannered shipper, who likes hanging out with (some of the) shippers just being daft, but cos I've only been watching a year and I watched all the first six seasons over a period of 9 months and therefore everything was condensed, I wonder if I had been watching it from the start I wouldn't have died of boredom...

It's like a hamster in a wheel. Sure, it's cute at first, but after a while you just have to think it's not really getting anywhere. Or running on a treadmill and the view never changes. In real life the relationship would have died a death from natural causes under that kind of stasis.

Friends did the same with Ross and Rachel; at least when Monica and Chandler hooked up, they picked a course and ran it, they didn't break up, get back together, break up again, marry, divorce, marry someone else, divorce and all that other crud.

[astronomicalchick]

I'll do it. Just remember that I warned you all...

I posted. Not sure I said anything very outstanding, but I'm going off to find some pictures of Corin