Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[scarimor]

I'm sure TPTB are congratulating themselves happily on the fact that they managed to make it ambiguous enough that each fan group was able to take what they wanted from the Grace/Affinity/Threads arc because where ship is concerned...

Apparently not, though! Because the Jack/Sam-shippers (that I read here) are saying it's not resolved - they weren't able to take "what they want". And the non-shippers (e.g. me and AD) are saying that it is and did.

Which suggests that only the shippers are finding it "ambiguous".

[Chelle DB]

I was watching the audio commentary on Red Sky today and they were talking about a 'naked singularity' and Amanda said to Martin Wood..."a naked singularity is Carter at home on a Saturday night"...I thought that was great...very funny!!
Anyhow...just thought I'd share that with you as I don't want to get into a debate over the ship issue...all I will say is that I'm a shipper...and proud of it...but I can see and understand both sides to the argument...I just prefer my side better!!
On a much sadder note...my daughter's rabbit died today...she's away on band camp so she doesn't know yet...and it's not the first time we've lost a family pet when she's been away on camp.
So...good night Samandans...take care everyone and be safe...and smile coz LTS!!!

[L.A. Doyle]

She can still be a hero who blows things up and saves the day and have a fulfilled personal life you know.

Yep.

However, blatantly ignoring the followthrough on a major character development story arc does not translate to me as "resolved" in any way shape or form.

True. And for me personally, resolved means I know for a fact Sam and Jack are together.

Oooober, great posts lately-actually, great posts all the time. You are so deep.

[Rachel500]

Apparently not, though! Because the Jack/Sam-shippers (that I read here) are saying it's not resolved - they weren't able to take "what they want". And the non-shippers (e.g. me and AD) are saying that it is and did.

Which suggests that only the shippers are finding it "ambiguous".

I think there is a difference between taking what you want from an episode in terms of what you want to see happen with the characters and whether you consider this an actual resolution or not.

I'm sure if you polled the shippers on Threads, you'd get an overwhelming majority who think Threads inferred Sam and Jack got together. If you polled them on whether they consider Threads offered an unambiguous resolution to the Grace/Affinity/Threads arc, the majority would probably say no.

IMO, Threads provided an ambiguous resolution of whether Sam and Jack got together, and of Sam's emotional struggle with her personal life and decisions. It failed to provide an answer to the questions: did Sam and Jack get together? Did Sam simply choose to end things with Pete and opt for a single life? The viewer can infer from Threads their own answers to these questions. Some viewers will consider an ambiguous resolution, enough of a resolution; some will not. I think it depends on how heavily invested the individual is in the arc. It's not unsurprising for the shippers who are heavily invested in the arc above and beyond most of the rest of the audience, that they are no longer satisfied with the ambiguous resolution (and admittedly some never were) and are pressing for a more definitive one.

For me, it all comes down to the quality of the story-telling. Even if I were not a shipper I would still not consider the ambiguous resolution enough.

That particular arc was an important part of Sam's development for over a year (arguably longer but certainly from Grace onwards); regardless of the right or wrongs of whether the arc should ever have been done, how well it was written/directed, the arc provided Sam with an emotional struggle that impacted the character's decisions, thoughts, emotions over the the course of a year and prompted her to come to some kind of decision in Threads with one of the consequences of that decision being the end of her engagement to Pete.

By not providing clarity on the decision she came to because they left the ending ambiguous, the audience is not only left guessing about whether she and Jack are together (which is obviously the question the shippers are most interested in) but it also leaves the character is a state of developmental limbo. It would seem she went through that struggle for nothing; without it having any impact on her one way or another. That's unbelievable and incredibly poor story-telling IMO. Whichever way Sam did choose would inform her decisions and her character now; she would make reference to it now.

I think Sam deserves an actual resolution to that story arc because to provide an actual, unambiguous ending is good story-telling. And yes as a shipper I'd like to see Sam and Jack end up together on-screen. That doesn't mean that I don't take what I want to see from Threads (that Sam and Jack did get together) and should the show end with ambiguity still in place that I wouldn't grudgingly consider it the resolution.

[Skydiver]

Really?? I never saw it like that. There are a lot of people out there who are gender baised...(and boy do I know a few doozy's out there)...regardless of their gender...so I guess it rings true on both sides.
I personally don't view the opinion that if you're a female and you stand up for yourself, you are deemed a witch or demander or unreasonable...maybe a nag sometimes ...but that would also apply to males too.
And as for being a female and supporting a female character, I don't think my opinions have been dismissed based on that fact alone...and I have never met a male who has done that...yet!!
Maybe I'm living a sheltered life!!

well, when we - as in amanda's fans - complain about how we preceive her treatment in s9 and 10, we're called demandas and our opinion are dismissed. Yet if fans of the male characters, especially one, express thier dislike of this character's plot threads/stories, their concern just proves that they are true fans showing caring and support for classic stargate and the way things should be

[Skydiver]

I think there is a little pining on both sides. It just shows to me what great respect they have for each other because neither one is willing to test their relationship at the expense of the others career. [/QUOTE]

how i see it, and why i don't see ship as diminishing sam at all is this:

both of them like each other. both of them are aware of the mutual attraction. yet both of them are also aware of the limitations put upon them by thier careers and the oaths they made. and both of them know that they can't have thier cake and eat it too. they can try to be together or they can do thier duty.

i think that jack is more than a little fond of sam, and has been for years. but, with one failed marriage behind him, he's kinda afraid to screw up a good friendship by pursuing a relationship that may not work out. not to mention messing up her career.

sam i don't think was really aware of how jack felt for her for a while. i think she was pretty obtuse to it all and wrote her own attraction off as a bit of hero worship. so, a combo of her own insecurity about her feelings, jonas for example, the emotional issues wrought by her mom's death, i think she was content to stay for the status quo because it was easier. it was safe.

I think they both realize that being together and being on sg1 couldn't happen at the same time. both are too afraid to screw up thier friendship with each other to take it to the next level, thus both are adn were content to remain friends realizing that they'd rather have a friendship that lasts forever than a relationship that might not

[Skydiver]

Quite frankly, each fan group would see what they wanted to see even if it wasn't ambiguous.

and then some. I've lost count of how many slash fans, wheni say 'but jack's canonly het' tell me 'hey, people 'switch sides' all the time. jack's just in the closet or jack's pretending to be het to protect his relationship with daniel. jack uses sam to cover up his true feelings, etc.

I've had slash fans swear up and down that the look jack and tela'c shared after simmons got spaced in Prometheus was the 'slashiest look ever!!!!!'

People WILL see what they want to see.

I've seen rite of passage promoted as definitive proof that sam and janet are a pair and call the episode 'the one where cassie gets two moms'

people will see what they want to see

[minigeek]

Apparently not, though! Because the Jack/Sam-shippers (that I read here) are saying it's not resolved - they weren't able to take "what they want". And the non-shippers (e.g. me and AD) are saying that it is and did.

Which suggests that only the shippers are finding it "ambiguous".

Hey, I'm a shipper and I didn't find the intention of the Grace/Threads arc ambiguous. I found it quite plain, the fact that Jack and Sam do love one another romantically, and (after Threads) the fact that the two of them intended to explore those feelings together (albeit off screen). I thought that message was pretty clear, myself.

Selfishly, I'd have enjoyed seeing a tiny bit more of it apepar on-screen again, when Jack comes back to guest. And/or in the second movie. Which I also believe is a given, and ergo which I'm quite looking forward to. Yum.

mg

[DEM]

By not providing clarity on the decision she came to because they left the ending ambiguous, the audience is not only left guessing about whether she and Jack are together (which is obviously the question the shippers are most interested in) but it also leaves the character is a state of developmental limbo. It would seem she went through that struggle for nothing; without it having any impact on her one way or another. That's unbelievable and incredibly poor story-telling IMO. Whichever way Sam did choose would inform her decisions and her character now; she would make reference to it now.

I don't follow on that last point. Are you implying that had she and Jack not gotTEN together 2+ years ago, she would still make reference to it now? Why?

More to the point, I'm not sure I saw how that struggle affected Carter's decisions and character then. At least not in any way that was relevant to her performance as an officer and 'gate traveller.

[DEM]

I've seen rite of passage promoted as definitive proof that sam and janet are a pair and call the episode 'the one where cassie gets two moms'

Okay, well, I'd have to say quite honestly that I find that silly. Definitive proof? Nah.

However, Rite of Passage was the ep about Cassie and Her Two Moms. But she didn't get two moms in that ep; she'd already had them for some time. gah, my head aches every time I think about how much Carter's stuff was originally for O'Neill. oy.

[scarimor]

Hey, I'm a shipper and I didn't find the intention of the Grace/Threads arc ambiguous.

That's fine - I didn't say "all", I said "only"

(and I'm refering to people who write here)

[ForeverSg1]

Or, looking at it another way, Sam never needed to say it.

Obviously it wasn't an issue when Jack was in command but when Sam was the leader of SG-1, she didn't have to constantly remind people of her status. She was respected for herself, not for a title she got by default.

Exactly...

A leader is best when people barely know he exists, not so good when people obey and acclaim him, worse when they despise him. But of a good leader who talks little when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves.
~ Lao-Tzu


I also like this quote by Roosevelt...

The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint to keep from meddling with them while they do it.~ Theodore Roosevelt

In my opinion, this is where Cameron lost me as leader. I think he was wise for wanting to pick the best people or his team, but he faultered when he refused to listen to their advice throughout S9 and S10. I really didn't like how the writers made him come across as if it were all about Mitchell in OTG, and the Scourge and several other episodes. That to me is when I stopped trying to see Mitchell as leader.

[scarimor]

I don't follow on that last point. Are you implying that had she and Jack not gotTEN together 2+ years ago, she would still make reference to it now? Why?

That's it, DEM. Not refering to something that isn't wouldn't qualify as "ambiguous" or "unresolved". It would merely be the status quo.

In other words, it's only "unresolved" and "ambiguous" if you pre-supose that there was something going on Threads onwards. If you assume there wasn't, then what we've had since is exactly what you'd expect: nada: the status quo.

And if you assumed neither at the time of Threads - i.e. truly weren't sure, and genuinely found it ambiguous - then all the not-happenning since points to an interpretion on the negative: i.e., resolved.

When it comes down to it, the Jack/Sam ship thingummy remains "unresolved" and needing attention only for supporters of that ship (and, maybe not all of them). Someone please point me to a quote if there is one - has any non-shipper called out the now oft-repeated mantra: "I want to see the ship issue resolved, one way or another!" ?

More to the point, I'm not sure I saw how that struggle affected Carter's decisions and character then. At least not in any way that was relevant to her performance as an officer and 'gate traveller.

I saw no effect.

[NZNeep]

Exactly...

A leader is best when people barely know he exists, not so good when people obey and acclaim him, worse when they despise him. But of a good leader who talks little when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves.
~ Lao-Tzu

Woooh... that describes teachers very well.

But it wouldn't be for me, I want credit for my work dammit!

[scarimor]

However, Rite of Passage was the ep about Cassie and Her Two Moms. But she didn't get two moms in that ep; she'd already had them for some time. gah, my head aches every time I think about how much Carter's stuff was originally for O'Neill. oy.

I mean, chess!?!

But, oh man, that ep - when Sam did her DAD thing with Dominic on the doorstep:

"You KISSED HER?!!?"

*swoon*