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    Originally posted by VSS View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's what was meant, too. But it always seemed like quite a personal thing to say in front of everyone else, which wouldn't be like our Sam but might be quite like the AU Sam (didn't she also kiss Hammond and/or Teal'c on the cheek?).So Aveo might be on to something there.
    Both! AU!Sam is quite open with her affections. (Though I'm oh so fond of complicated people who suppress them. <3)

    I went and watched that scene again, and the other thing is how surprised she is at simply seeing Jack alive - she never expected that variation. Which sort of strengthens my belief in what she meant by the other remark. If she didn't even consider him being alive, even upon finding a world untouched by the Goa'uld (which, on the other hand, how come she didn't?) then perhaps it never crossed her mind there might be a universe where he is not a Jack to her Sam in the way she knows him to be.
    The realization then and there would certainly explain her candidness.


    And... glad you decided to stop by. I've personally learned a lot hanging around this thread!
    I'm loving it. And I've found (my) opinions and theses are most effectively and clearly shaped through quality discussion. So yay for all the different takes and stances.
    you're so cute when you're slurring your speech but they're closing the bar and they want us to leave


    'What is it, Sebastian? I'm arranging matches.'


    "Religion is far more of a choice than homosexuality. And the protections that we have, for religion --we protect religion-- and talk about a lifestyle choice! That is absolutely a choice. Gay people don't choose to be gay. At what age did you choose not to be gay?" (Jon Stewart, The King of Common Sense)

    Comment


      On the question of what did AU Sam mean - she does say "it's not the same with us here?" which I took to mean as others that she's thinking out loud her realisation that our Sam and Jack don't have the same relationship as she did with her Jack. It's supposed to be one of the first hints - along with for crying out loud - that AU Sam is like the TBFTGOG Sam and is involved with Jack.

      On the other question of what would have happened if Sam and not Jack had met with AU Sam...I think at that point the two were still struggling with the differences. I think AU Sam would have been fairly dismissive of any attempt by Sam to reach out.

      Had Sam noticed the photo, I think she would have been shocked but fallen back on the 'theoretically possible' and denied that she felt anything for her Jack. And I think AU Sam would have been smug that she got her Jack before admitting her Jack was dead - and that might have led to the rapprochement between the two women (because Sam is hugely compassionate and would have reached out to her double). I don't think Sam would have told Jack directly but she might have told Daniel who would have told Jack...

      I think what would have happened is that Jack wouldn't have been confronted so openly by how it would be if he was with Sam...and he would have been able to maintain some personal distance with AU Sam so the kiss at the end wouldn't have happened.

      Ficlet to explain better what I mean...

      Spoiler:


      Sam knocked on the door and entered at her double's call. Samantha sat on the far edge of the bed, her back to her.

      'You can leave the tray.' Samantha said.

      'Uh,' Sam closed the door, 'it's me.'

      Samantha turned and even in the dim lighting Sam could see she had been crying. Compassion swelled inside of her; Samantha had lost her world and Sam couldn't even begin to imagine the pain and horror of that.

      Sam moved forward, coming to a halt at the end of the bed. 'General Hammond wanted me to let you know you've been given permission to stay.'

      Samantha grimaced and nodded.

      Sam pressed her lips together. She had no real idea how they were going to work out both being in the same reality. Did they just act like long lost twins or...she sighed. Her eyes drifted to a photo by the lamp and widened at the picture of the Colonel and herself - her twin, she corrected.

      'Is that...'

      Samantha looked over at where Sam was pointing and nodded. She swiped under her eyes. 'We were married.'

      'Oh.' Sam was stunned although she remembered Daniel had said that apparently she and the Colonel had been engaged in the reality he had visited.

      Samantha glanced at her. 'You're not with him in this reality.'

      'No,' Sam agreed roughly, 'there are regulations.' And an attraction and fondness she rarely admitted to because of them.

      'You don't know what you're missing.' Samantha said with an air of smugness before her face crumpled. 'He's...he was defending the mountain and...'

      Sam quickly shifted to sit beside the other woman and tentatively put her hand on her shoulder. 'I'm sorry.' She said sincerely.

      Samantha nodded, tears falling unhindered. 'I just miss him.'

      Sam sat and comforted the other woman, her mind reeling with possibilities she hadn't allowed herself to consider.

      ---

      It was late when she left the other woman's room and she was startled to run into the Colonel in the corridor.

      'Carter.' Jack gestured back towards her double's room. 'I was just coming to see if you'd gotten lost.'

      'She's very upset.' Sam murmured. She wondered whether she should say anything to the Colonel about their being married in Samantha's reality - was it even relevant? Was it even her place?

      'Should I check...' The Colonel began awkwardly.

      'No.' Sam shook her head. 'I think she just needs some space.' And probably not a reminder of the man she had loved and just lost.

      'OK.' The Colonel turned to move away and stopped. 'Uh, what about you, Carter? You doing OK with this twin thing?'

      She pinned on a smile. 'Have you got a couple of hours?' She joked, although a part of her did want to talk, did want to share the confusion in her head.

      He smiled back sympathetically. 'Tough, huh?'

      'I can handle it.' Sam said automatically falling back to her usual defence.

      'I know you can.' He said, pushing his hands into his pockets and rocking back on his heels.

      His complete faith in her helped settle her churning emotions and she was suddenly aware that they stood in the corridor, barely a foot apart, smiling at each other. She felt the faint heat of a blush on her cheeks and pointed in the direction of the elevator.

      'I should...'

      'Right.' Jack pointed in the opposite direction. 'I'm going this way.'

      'Goodnight, sir.'

      'Night, Carter.'

      Sam watched him walk away, before she threw one last look towards the room her twin occupied, and began to make her way to her lab. She shook her head. There was just no way the Colonel was interested in her that way...and there was just no way she could be interested in him. She ignored the disappointment that flooded her as she stepped into the elevator. Sometimes reality sucked.

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      Comment


        Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
        On the question of what did AU Sam mean - she does say "it's not the same with us here?" which I took to mean as others that she's thinking out loud her realisation that our Sam and Jack don't have the same relationship as she did with her Jack. It's supposed to be one of the first hints - along with for crying out loud - that AU Sam is like the TBFTGOG Sam and is involved with Jack.

        On the other question of what would have happened if Sam and not Jack had met with AU Sam...I think at that point the two were still struggling with the differences. I think AU Sam would have been fairly dismissive of any attempt by Sam to reach out.

        Had Sam noticed the photo, I think she would have been shocked but fallen back on the 'theoretically possible' and denied that she felt anything for her Jack. And I think AU Sam would have been smug that she got her Jack before admitting her Jack was dead - and that might have led to the rapprochement between the two women (because Sam is hugely compassionate and would have reached out to her double). I don't think Sam would have told Jack directly but she might have told Daniel who would have told Jack...

        I think what would have happened is that Jack wouldn't have been confronted so openly by how it would be if he was with Sam...and he would have been able to maintain some personal distance with AU Sam so the kiss at the end wouldn't have happened.

        Ficlet to explain better what I mean...

        Spoiler:


        Sam knocked on the door and entered at her double's call. Samantha sat on the far edge of the bed, her back to her.

        'You can leave the tray.' Samantha said.

        'Uh,' Sam closed the door, 'it's me.'

        Samantha turned and even in the dim lighting Sam could see she had been crying. Compassion swelled inside of her; Samantha had lost her world and Sam couldn't even begin to imagine the pain and horror of that.

        Sam moved forward, coming to a halt at the end of the bed. 'General Hammond wanted me to let you know you've been given permission to stay.'

        Samantha grimaced and nodded.

        Sam pressed her lips together. She had no real idea how they were going to work out both being in the same reality. Did they just act like long lost twins or...she sighed. Her eyes drifted to a photo by the lamp and widened at the picture of the Colonel and herself - her twin, she corrected.

        'Is that...'

        Samantha looked over at where Sam was pointing and nodded. She swiped under her eyes. 'We were married.'

        'Oh.' Sam was stunned although she remembered Daniel had said that apparently she and the Colonel had been engaged in the reality he had visited.

        Samantha glanced at her. 'You're not with him in this reality.'

        'No,' Sam agreed roughly, 'there are regulations.' And an attraction and fondness she rarely admitted to because of them.

        'You don't know what you're missing.' Samantha said with an air of smugness before her face crumpled. 'He's...he was defending the mountain and...'

        Sam quickly shifted to sit beside the other woman and tentatively put her hand on her shoulder. 'I'm sorry.' She said sincerely.

        Samantha nodded, tears falling unhindered. 'I just miss him.'

        Sam sat and comforted the other woman, her mind reeling with possibilities she hadn't allowed herself to consider.

        ---

        It was late when she left the other woman's room and she was startled to run into the Colonel in the corridor.

        'Carter.' Jack gestured back towards her double's room. 'I was just coming to see if you'd gotten lost.'

        'She's very upset.' Sam murmured. She wondered whether she should say anything to the Colonel about their being married in Samantha's reality - was it even relevant? Was it even her place?

        'Should I check...' The Colonel began awkwardly.

        'No.' Sam shook her head. 'I think she just needs some space.' And probably not a reminder of the man she had loved and just lost.

        'OK.' The Colonel turned to move away and stopped. 'Uh, what about you, Carter? You doing OK with this twin thing?'

        She pinned on a smile. 'Have you got a couple of hours?' She joked, although a part of her did want to talk, did want to share the confusion in her head.

        He smiled back sympathetically. 'Tough, huh?'

        'I can handle it.' Sam said automatically falling back to her usual defence.

        'I know you can.' He said, pushing his hands into his pockets and rocking back on his heels.

        His complete faith in her helped settle her churning emotions and she was suddenly aware that they stood in the corridor, barely a foot apart, smiling at each other. She felt the faint heat of a blush on her cheeks and pointed in the direction of the elevator.

        'I should...'

        'Right.' Jack pointed in the opposite direction. 'I'm going this way.'

        'Goodnight, sir.'

        'Night, Carter.'

        Sam watched him walk away, before she threw one last look towards the room her twin occupied, and began to make her way to her lab. She shook her head. There was just no way the Colonel was interested in her that way...and there was just no way she could be interested in him. She ignored the disappointment that flooded her as she stepped into the elevator. Sometimes reality sucked.

        Can't green you 'til I spread the love, so...virtual green for this. Awesome ficlet.
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        Comment


          thats pretty good rachel

          Comment


            Yay, I made it on time! *happy sigh*
            Unfortunately, much like it was with season 2, I don't have much free time and I wouldn't be able to post often so I limit myself to just lurking here; however, as POV is one of my Top 3 Episodes Ever - and an episode that turned me into a shipper to that - I couldn't not pop in for a second. Great discussion guys!

            Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post

            Well, I agree and don't. I tend to veer more towards the idea that it is the regs that really keep them apart. Even Kerry points out "Is the air force the only thing keeping you two apart?" Where I think the line blurs is that the regs very much dictate how Sam behaves in our reality much more than Jack, since we have never really seen a non militarys AU Jack. That's not to say our Jack does not respect the regs nor would he knowingly break them but, by that what I mean - and this is pure conjecture - that both AUs we have seen to this point, Sam is the one who is not military. Military Sam we know, would never overtly infer to Jack that she is interested in a relationship with him because he's her CO and it's not allowed. I want to theorise that a military Sam wouldn't even infer that to a non-military Jack simply becasue it's not really the person she is. So if you imagine that scenario/AU, would they have got together? However, AU non-military Sams wouldn't have had the rigid code of conduct intstilled through her training so might be more open and showy with feelings. In POV that certainly seems to be the case. Maybe in AU worlds it was non-military Sams who tipped Jacks the wink that clued him in that she would be receptive to his advances. Would AU Jacks have made overtures to non military Sams without her first showing an interest? Maybe, maybe not. Moebuis seems to imply he would, which seems to back up the argument that it really is just the regs that's the issue, but then in Moebius the AU Jack isn't actually in the military anymore so he's a different man.
            These are excellent, mind-boggling questions. So many possibilities...

            IMO, in reality where Jack wasn't in the military he and Sam would never meet. That's why we were never shown this particular scenario. It was the very uniqueness of the Stargate program that allowed them to get to know each other. So while this possibility is very interesting, for me it would need a totally different scenery, one that would allow for their life paths to cross. Perhaps in AU from "The changeling", where they were both firemen? If so, they would both be civilian, the regs wouldn't be an issue and everything would be down to "normal relationship" problems. Would any of them be still single when they meet (no military=no gun= no Charlie's death)? What part of their personalities were formed by the military? Would civilian Jack still be the guy we know and love? Would Sam? Would they give each other chance without knowing what the other is really capable of? I tend to think that yes, but their feelings would be based much more on physical attraction then between our Sam and Jack. Plus they both would be probably much more open, happy, carefree..

            The scenario when Sam's in the military and Jack's not really doesn't work for me, as I said. But I don't think Sam would have any qualms with letting him know she's interested, albeit in some subtle manner.

            The scenario when he's in the military and she isn't would inevitably end with them being together, as was shown in the series. As to who made the first move, I agree with you; I can see Sam hinting at her attraction to him/gently nudging him and him taking a clue and doing the first "official" step, like asking her out.

            The scenario where they are both in the military..hmm..oh, wait, that's what we've been watching all these years!
            There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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              Originally posted by col aga View Post
              IMO, in reality where Jack wasn't in the military he and Sam would never meet. That's why we were never shown this particular scenario. It was the very uniqueness of the Stargate program that allowed them to get to know each other. So while this possibility is very interesting, for me it would need a totally different scenery, one that would allow for their life paths to cross. <snipped for space>
              Well we do actually see both an AU where neither are in the military and an AU where they both are and they never meet.

              In Moebius Jack appears to have been in the Air Force at some point but long since retired. Sam, for whatever reason, never joins the military. Yet the do meet but only with the intervention of our timeline/universe SG-1 and the discovery of the tape. So it was the stargate that was the catalyst for bringing them together.

              In Continuum, Jack is some kind of military officer and Sam (in that reality) was an astronaut - which was the career path our Sam probably wanted to aim for before becoming involved in the stargate programme, and the one her father was trying to get her into via connections early on. I can't remember if it's said in the movie if she's from the Air Force but I always got that impression that this was the life an Air Force Sam would have had without the stargate.
              In that reality, Jack and Sam never met depsite being both military. Again the notable point is an absence of the stargate and, again they only met (after a fashion) in the end because of the stargate.

              So, IMO, it's not whether one or the other is in the military that matters whether they meet or not in any reality. It's the absence or not of a stargate that is the common denominator.
              Although I'll concede I can't really see how Sam and Jack would have met had he not been in the miltary since he'd have had no involvement with the stargate, but then that scenario has never really been explored within the series or movies.
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              Comment


                Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post

                So, IMO, it's not whether one or the other is in the military that matters whether they meet or not in any reality. It's the absence or not of a stargate that is the common denominator.
                Although I'll concede I can't really see how Sam and Jack would have met had he not been in the miltary since he'd have had no involvement with the stargate, but then that scenario has never really been explored within the series or movies.
                I totally agree that Stargate is what brings them together in every reality. Actually I had this in mind when I was writing, and then it somehow didn't end up in my post Thanks for catching it and clarifying.

                Without the stargate the only way they could have met would be if both of them found similar or even the same job, say law enforcement. But I can't see it either; as we were shown even when Sam doesn't join military she always pursues science and Jack..hm, I have no idea what Jack would do had he not enrolled.
                There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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                  Deadman Switch


                  Banner courtesy of the lovely & talented Regularamanda!

                  Favorite Scene: After Sam’s been zapped and Jack’s lying on the ground beside her, and the ship rises up from the ravine. The first part of that scene is in the banner.

                  Favorite Quote:
                  Jack- So why haven’t you been killed?
                  Aris Boch: It takes talent.
                  Jack- So why haven’t you been killed?

                  I’ve always liked this episode- it has twists and turns that took me a couple of viewings to understand. It’s definitely of the most feel-good episodes because it showcases the solidarity of the team both internally and in their unity with the Tok’ra in the fight against the goa’uld. They not only set an example for Aris, but they also give him an entirely new understanding of the war.

                  Something new I realized this time is that it’s quite a big deal for Teal’c to give himself up for a Tok’ra, since the two races are barely on speaking terms with each other. I think that and Korra’s nearly dying to save his comrades really had an effect on Aris, though the way the team worked together had been building up that concept of selfless sacrifice in his mind and turning it from a weakness to a strength. It’s interesting that he chose to keep Sam as a hostage both times. I wonder if it was to play on her sympathies, because he liked her or because he thought she’d be the least likely to be left behind by the team?

                  And while Jack protested vigorously the other times the team was split up, his reply to her being held was a terse, “Unacceptable,” as if it kind of hit him in a little different spot than, say, when Teal’c offered himself as a captive. Throughout the ep Sam and Jack were in close proximity with each other, and there was quite a bit of framing (liked that scene at the end where the ship blew up, it was very reminiscent of CotG- it's coincidentally in the banner, too. ). It was also pretty cute the way Jack was trying to delicately fan her awake after she’d been zapped, then finally resorted to shaking her out of frustration! And I noticed Sam started to smile at Jack’s joke behind Aris’ back and then tried to stifle it, probably so she didn’t encourage him considering Aris had a gun on all of them.

                  A couple more interesting things about Sam in this episode- first, she’s quick to point out that she’s a major now (similar to how she points out she’s a colonel later on). I always think of this when people wonder why she didn’t just quit so she could be with Jack. I guess to me, she’s had a lot of well-placed pride in her work, not to mention the fact that it’s her duty to defend earth from the goa’uld and whatever else is out there. And I think there’s continuing evidence of her accepting her identity as a former Tok’ra host.

                  Significantly, it's here that Aris makes note of the fact that Sam actually has the memories of Jolinar. Previously, we've seen how she can use Tok'ra devices but this (I think) is the first we've heard that she still has some of Jolinar's thoughts left besides the emotions associated with Martouf. Of course, that will be very important in a few episodes.

                  I also sincerely wish we'd seen Aris Boch or his race again. It would have been wonderful to see what ever became of the roshnah research, and to find out what it was that made Boch's people resistant to invasion by a goa'uld.

                  Implications for Sam and Jack: Not many, but their physical closeness continues to be fairly evident. Ah, the sweet & innocent good old days before they really had a clue.
                  Last edited by VSS; 16 November 2009, 04:52 PM.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by col aga View Post
                    I totally agree that Stargate is what brings them together in every reality. Actually I had this in mind when I was writing, and then it somehow didn't end up in my post Thanks for catching it and clarifying.

                    Without the stargate the only way they could have met would be if both of them found similar or even the same job, say law enforcement. But I can't see it either; as we were shown even when Sam doesn't join military she always pursues science and Jack..hm, I have no idea what Jack would do had he not enrolled.
                    In Continuum, due to lack of the Stargate, neither of them had met. Though I find it strange how certain things in Continuum don't make sense, in terms of the timeline. But the S/J element, with them not knowing each other, adds up still.
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                      Originally posted by VSS View Post
                      A couple more interesting things about Sam in this episode- first, she’s quick to point out that she’s a major now (similar to how she points out she’s a colonel later on). I always think of this when people wonder why she didn’t just quit so she could be with Jack. I guess to me, she’s had a lot of well-placed pride in her work, not to mention the fact that it’s her duty to defend earth from the goa’uld and whatever else is out there. And I think there’s continuing evidence of her accepting her identity as a former Tok’ra host.
                      My glasses are currently off kilter because I set my purse on them. So if my post is a little off kilter, I'm blaming my eyewear....

                      Great review!

                      I wanted to really draw this point out. It's not easy for Sam to have gotten where she is. Not only has she worked for her degree, but she's been a military officer sacrificing A LOT to be the rank that she is. These promotions aren't just "Hey you've been here a while, let's throw a new grade at ya". She has reviews and requirements, disciplines that have to be maintained.

                      I also wonder if her snark at Aris isn't also to say "Hey I'm not some dumb bimbo woman" - because let's face it, women in the galaxy haven't really moved into the US's 21st century.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by VSS View Post
                        Deadman Switch


                        <snip>

                        And while Jack protested vigorously the other times the team was split up, his reply to her being held was a terse, “Unacceptable,” as if it kind of hit him in a little different spot than, say, when Teal’c offered himself as a captive. Throughout the ep Sam and Jack were in close proximity with each other, and there was quite a bit of framing (liked that scene at the end where the ship blew up, it was very reminiscent of CotG- it's coincidentally in the banner, too. ). It was also pretty cute the way Jack was trying to delicately fan her awake after she’d been zapped, then finally resorted to shaking her out of frustration! And I noticed Sam started to smile at Jack’s joke behind Aris’ back and then tried to stifle it, probably so she didn’t encourage him considering Aris had a gun on all of them.

                        A couple more interesting things about Sam in this episode- first, she’s quick to point out that she’s a major now (similar to how she points out she’s a colonel later on). I always think of this when people wonder why she didn’t just quit so she could be with Jack. I guess to me, she’s had a lot of well-placed pride in her work, not to mention the fact that it’s her duty to defend earth from the goa’uld and whatever else is out there. And I think there’s continuing evidence of her accepting her identity as a former Tok’ra host.
                        <snip>

                        I also sincerely wish we'd seen Aris Boch or his race again. It would have been wonderful to see what ever became of the roshnah research, and to find out what it was that made Boch's people resistant to invasion by a goa'uld.

                        Implications for Sam and Jack: Not many, but their physical closeness continues to be fairly evident. Ah, the sweet & innocent good old days before they really had a clue.
                        Deadman's Switch is an interesting one for me because at first viewing (years ago) I remember being thrown by how professional they seemed in comparison to the previous episode's (POV) emphasis on exploring Sam/Jack. It was almost, "OK, we've touched on it...now let's get back to normal".

                        In rewatching you can see that Jack is actually very protective of Sam. He hates leaving her with Aris; he immediately volunteers to be the one to crawl out to her. He takes care of her when she's out cold. Would he have been this way normally? Possibly but understanding the episode before, there's maybe a slight hint here that Jack has been affected by his encounter by AU Sam and is perhaps on a subconscious level reacting more to his Sam as a woman.

                        I also do think that Sam's pride in her accomplishments - her promotions, her careers is one of the reasons why she doesn't just quit to be with Jack. Jacob gets that wrong about her at the end: she didn't just join because of her Dad but because as she said to him she loves her job. And that was always the dilemma - how to have both her career and the man she loved? And for the longest time both of them, Sam and Jack, assume it's an either/or scenario - they can have each other or they can have the Air Force. (Which of course it isn't; they just needed to look at the problem from a different angle but let's not get into that).

                        My favourite scene of this episode though has to be Jack and Daniel trying to remember the password to enter the ship - it's so funny.
                        Last edited by Rachel500; 17 November 2009, 07:58 AM.
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                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                          I also do think that Sam's pride in her accomplishments - her promotions, her careers is one of the reasons why she doesn't just quit to be with Jack. Jacob gets that wrong about her at the end: she didn't just join because of her Dad but because as she said to him she loves her job. And that was always the dilemma - how to have both her career and the man she loved? And for the longest time both of them, Sam and Jack, assume it's an either/or scenario - they can have each other or they can have the Air Force. (Which of course it isn't; they just needed to look at the problem from a different angle but let's not get into that).
                          I definitely agree here. And it's why I can't really see the 'missed opportunities' like Sam not taking Jack up on his offer to talk in POV, or Jack's 'excuse me' when Sam called him Jack in Grace as things that would have really changed their relationship at those points in the series. Because even if they had taken those opportunities, they still wouldn't have been able to do anything until they were no longer in the direct chain of command, which didn't happen until after S8.

                          My favourite scene of this episode though has to be Jack and Daniel trying to remember the password to enter the ship - it's so funny.
                          That was great. And Aris Boch himself I think was one of the funniest aliens SG-1 came across.

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                          Comment


                            Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
                            I definitely agree here. And it's why I can't really see the 'missed opportunities' like Sam not taking Jack up on his offer to talk in POV, or Jack's 'excuse me' when Sam called him Jack in Grace as things that would have really changed their relationship at those points in the series. Because even if they had taken those opportunities, they still wouldn't have been able to do anything until they were no longer in the direct chain of command, which didn't happen until after S8.



                            That was great. And Aris Boch himself I think was one of the funniest aliens SG-1 came across.
                            I would have liked to have seen Aris Boch again. I think one of the things I liked about Seasons 9 & 10 is that we got to see "the rest" of the galaxy outside of the Tok'Ra and Jaffa.

                            Does anyone wonder if Aris kept a hold on Sam because well... he's a guy... she's a girl... SG-1 tends to be lighter but Sam was really in a dangerous position as a woman in the galaxy.

                            Just a thought.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                              I also do think that Sam's pride in her accomplishments - her promotions, her careers is one of the reasons why she doesn't just quit to be with Jack. Jacob gets that wrong about her at the end: she didn't just join because of her Dad but because as she said to him she loves her job. And that was always the dilemma - how to have both her career and the man she loved? And for the longest time both of them, Sam and Jack, assume it's an either/or scenario - they can have each other or they can have the Air Force. (Which of course it isn't; they just needed to look at the problem from a different angle but let's not get into that).
                              Sort of, but not exactly related: I think that in reality, most people have this problem with choices in their lives. They don't understand that they often can have most or all of the things they really want and don't have to choose one important thing over another important thing. If they think beyond their walls(?) and use their imagination/curiosity in order to find ways to make things work for them, they can often have all that they want (as Jacob told Sam in "Grace"). It doesn't always mean it's going to be easy, though.

                              (Sorry if I totally muddled that. I know what I meant.)

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by VSS View Post
                                Something new I realized this time is that it’s quite a big deal for Teal’c to give himself up for a Tok’ra, since the two races are barely on speaking terms with each other. I think that and Korra’s nearly dying to save his comrades really had an effect on Aris, though the way the team worked together had been building up that concept of selfless sacrifice in his mind and turning it from a weakness to a strength. It’s interesting that he chose to keep Sam as a hostage both times. I wonder if it was to play on her sympathies, because he liked her or because he thought she’d be the least likely to be left behind by the team?
                                I think a bit of all three, and maybe also because she's a woman - picking up on Twilight's point about the rest of the universe not being quite as enlightened when it comes to gender equality as we are!

                                And while Jack protested vigorously the other times the team was split up, his reply to her being held was a terse, “Unacceptable,” as if it kind of hit him in a little different spot than, say, when Teal’c offered himself as a captive. Throughout the ep Sam and Jack were in close proximity with each other, and there was quite a bit of framing (liked that scene at the end where the ship blew up, it was very reminiscent of CotG- it's coincidentally in the banner, too. ). It was also pretty cute the way Jack was trying to delicately fan her awake after she’d been zapped, then finally resorted to shaking her out of frustration! And I noticed Sam started to smile at Jack’s joke behind Aris’ back and then tried to stifle it, probably so she didn’t encourage him considering Aris had a gun on all of them.
                                Nice point - Jack is definitely more protective of Sam, going right back to S1, and continues to be in future as well. However I think his protectiveness is not entirely linked to the other expression of his feelings, in that it's there the entire time. He's protective of her right from the start, and the protectiveness is clear even during the times when he pulls back from the ship - I'm thinking Desperate Measures in S5 as an example.

                                A couple more interesting things about Sam in this episode- first, she’s quick to point out that she’s a major now (similar to how she points out she’s a colonel later on). I always think of this when people wonder why she didn’t just quit so she could be with Jack. I guess to me, she’s had a lot of well-placed pride in her work, not to mention the fact that it’s her duty to defend earth from the goa’uld and whatever else is out there. And I think there’s continuing evidence of her accepting her identity as a former Tok’ra host.
                                This is a good point too, as well as what Rachel said in response. And it's similar to what we heard her say in PoV, her obvious pride in the fact that she made the choice to have a military career in our reality. She makes the link there with her being in the military contributing to Earth's survival, and I think this idea takes rather firm root in her mind from that point on. She believes her place in the military is important for the whole world, not just for herself, and this will inevitably make her more concerned that giving that up in order to obtain the personal happiness of a relationship with Jack could backfire horribly for the rest of the planet. It's quite a stumbling block to get over!
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