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**JenniferJF** · 19 March 2010, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post

It's all good, I know I'm probably the only one here who likes the guy. I liked his calmness actually, it came across as kinda zen to me rather than emotional flatness. And I thought it was interesting to see a host with that kind of personality with the more forceful Lantash symbiote, kinda like the contrast with Selmak and Jacob though we didn't get to see as much of it. Plus I just adored the gentle way he talked Sam through dealing with her feelings about Jolinar in the Tok'ra. But as always, happy to agree to disagree.

Tok'ra is one of my favorite episodes, and I actually quite liked Martouf in that scene. Also in D&C when she's writing the letter to Jacob. So not a total disagreement, I think.

**yessika** · 19 March 2010, 04:15 PM

I like Martouf, I agree with several things on Petra's list, and I don't believe in the word "unpopular"

**Nynaeve506** · 19 March 2010, 06:01 PM

Like Jenn I'm going to post the one's I agree with - I think it's fair to say that although we are shippers, I don't think we should be lumped together - we're people and we all have nuanced understandings of the characters...

2. No kids. I just can't see them having children.
I think this for a lot of reasons (and I also don't like kid fic... although I have my own actual real life child!)

3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship.
I agree with this *NOW* - if the show had ended in Threads, I support the resigning/retiring as a possibility

5. I like Laira and Anise/Freya.
I like Laira too! Anise/Freya only bother me b/c of the actress. She talks funny. Sorry... :: shrugs ::

6. I can't stand Martouf.
Me neither (why is this listed as unpopular??).

9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in Unending (I am very uncomfortable with its implications and consequences in normal timeline though)
It doesn't bother me at all - but the way I see it is written in my Unending fic "Coda"

11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight".
Amen and amen

12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.
Agreed.

13. As recently discussed, I do believe Sam was quite happy with her job and friends and without a guy for the first 5-6 seasons.
I don't think she was *unhappy* but perhaps *lonely* - you can be lonely and happy. You can be *satisfied* without being content. Nuances and differences I think...

14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable. - I waffle on this - I don't think he physically/sexually/verbally abused but I do think he might have been emotionally abusive (in the sense that he tried to control her) - I always thought she got engaged and didn't realize how bad he was cuz she was too wrapped up in work and then figured it all out.

15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1.
Me too!

16. I don't believe that the age difference between Jack and Sam is so big that he's old enough to be her father. The way I see canon is: Jack was born in 1957, Sam in 1968. However personally I think Sam is around Daniel's age, born in 1965. So their age difference is 11 years in canon, 8 in my world.
I haven't deeply thought about their age but no, Jack isn't old enough to be daddy.
17. I can see Jack and Kerry becoming friends.

And a list of unpopular opinions about Sam, Jack and the show: (My rendition

Spoiler:

2. I like Tok'ra stories. depends on the story

5. I don't see any SG-1 team member as a spotless hero. They all have faults and make mistakes. Is there someone who thinks they're flawless?? Certainly not me! LOL

6. I'm sure that Jack and Teal'c did some horrible things serving their country/god. Yes, I think they might have been forced to kill women and children too. Teal'c kill women/children yes, Jack - if he did he found out after the fact but they both did horrible things yes.
7. I don't think Sam has ever been SGC's 2IC. (that's bound to be very unpopular) - I don't recall her ever being the SGC's 2IC - that's not canon as far as I know! She did watch the base in the last episode of SGA though - but we don't know that she was stationed there. So popular or unpopular - there's nothing in canon - although I tend to think she would have taken another command position post-SGA...
8. I love Jonas Quinn. - secret - I like him better than Daniel - how's THAT for unpopular?
9. I like Jonas as much as season 1-6 Daniel and definitely much more than season 7-10 Daniel. Oh hey! We agree!
10. While I'm certain Jack and Daniel are close friends I don't see them as best friends ever. You mean Daniel and Jack don't get together and paint each other's toenails?!
11. I think Teal'c is Jack's best friend. Certainly the most trusted friend. I think T *gets* Jack
12. I believe Jack got over Charlie's death (as much as it is possible to get over your child's death) and doesn't torture himself over it every.single.day. - I don't think he *got over it* but I agree that he doesn't sit around torturing himself. You don't get over the death of a child, but you do learn to live with it.
13. I love/like some really unpopular episodes, like Hathor, Tin Man, One False Step, 100 days etc.

Who doesn't love an episode no one else does?!

15. I don't like some very popular episodes, like Lifeboat or The Quest. Lifeboat was popular?! Crazy Daniel not my thing. I don't like Broca Divide except for the hot moment LOL

**Petra** · 20 March 2010, 09:38 AM

Ok., I guess I need to clarify a few points from my list.

Originally posted by AstraPerAspera

Lol. I hardly think there's unanimity among shippers with regard to many of these points, although I think there are some key ones where it's quite obvious some of us differ in our interpretation of the characters.

Oh I know there’s no unanimity against shippers – this very thread is the best proof of that – and I’m sure each shipper will find some points with which s/he will agree. But I don’t think anyone will agree on all of them.

10. I don't think either Sam or Jack stayed celibate for 8 years. I can see them having one night stands/short affairs off-screen.

I just can't see him on the prowl for one-night-stands or meaningless affairs.

Err, right, that’s not what I meant. I’ll try to explain:

Sam: I was thinking about Sam when I wrote “short affairs” but it’s really more in terms of casual dating, much like Evenstar sees it. Joe in 2001 is one possibility. Hedwig suggested to me once that Janet might have set Sam up on a few dates with some friends of hers, and I agree with her that it’s a very likely scenario. I doubt all her casual dates led to, ehem, bedroom activities, but some probably did. 7 years is a long time and Sam seemed to have troubles with actual commitment, not dating/flirting/sex part of her relationship with Pete. I don’t see her doing one-night-stands either.

Jack: Now him I can see doing one-night-stands. But: I agree that he’s monogamous by nature and that he’s not the type to relieve tension in this way, usually. But I also think that he’s a man, not stone statue and his life wasn’t exactly easy. So I definitely can see him going to a bar to get wasted and leaving with some stranger to indulge himself/make himself feel alive after particularly harrowing experiences, e.g after he came back from Abydos the first time and found out Sara had left him, or after Daniel died, or after Baal experience etc. I can’t see him doing much of casual dating, unless he was fixed up by Ferretti or Dixon (another great idea of hedwig, to give credit where it’s due)

Originally posted by JenniferJF

4. I see their ship as part of team interactions, not a separate thing. What's happening between them influences other team members and what's happening between, say, Jack and Teal'c influences S/J ship. - I think this is pretty much a truism. As part of 'a team', I think it has to be.

It seems so obvious, doesn’t it? But believe me, I’ve met shippers who really didn’t care about team aspects of either the show or S/J relations and viewed S/J ship as existing in a vacuum of sorts.
What I also mean by this is what I mentioned in our Entity/Exodus discussion, that I don’t see Jack’s distance in season 5 as a result of only almost losing Sam but also almost losing Daniel and Teal’c in 1 year.

6. I can't stand Martouf. - can anyone?

Martouf is one of the most popular characters in the fandom. Not liking him guarantees you a place in the Heretics Unite Thread

He was the first character on SG-1 whose death generated huge fan outcry.

11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight". I don't think it was 'love', but I think there was definite physical attraction and a strong sense of "I enjoy interacting with this person"

Yep. But I’ve lost count of how many times I heard that they were in love as soon as they laid eyes on each other . I'm not kidding. And let's not even go into fanfic territory...

12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument. Does anyone think that? I got the impression from CotG that he really *didn't* care that she was a woman.

Ooops, me bad. I didn’t add “in military”. The sentence should be read as “ I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women in military” argument.
You are right, I haven’t heard anyone saying that Jack had been a male chauvinist in general – but towards the women in military – more times that I can count. Apparently a lot of fans think that since he probably hadn’t had many chances to work with women in SF he doubted women’s abilities. I’ve read claims that he even tried to get Sam off the team and she had to prove herself numerous times to convince him to let her stay..

15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1. Again, I think that's pretty clear from canon, too.

Yeah, that’s another thing that should be obvious and yet I’ve met quite a few shippers who hate Sara with passion, claim she was no good for him etc. They are usually the ones supporting S/J “love at first sight” theory. And in how many fanfics was she portrayed as a villain?

16. I don't believe that the age difference between Jack and Sam is so big that he's old enough to be her father. The way I see canon is: Jack was born in 1957, Sam in 1968. However personally I think Sam is around Daniel's age, born in 1965. So their age difference is 11 years in canon, 8 in my world. Even 11 years isn't 'old enough to be her father'.

Of course it isn’t, which is my point. But I must say that the vast majority of folks here on forum and fanfic writers use 1952 as Jack’s dob, which makes them 16-17 years apart, which makes him “old enough to be her father”. And of course there are people who insist that there’s at least 20 years between them, or even that Jack and Jacob were born the same year, so..1957 seems to be a very unpopular date, for some unfathomable reason.

About Sam/Barret thing: it’s quite funny actually, because I don’t even like Barret as a character (he’s too much of a Marty Stu for me) but I like him with Sam. Simply put, I think they have great chemistry. Sam/Narim never worked for me because a) I found him incredibly boring and b) no chemistry at all. Sam/Martouf – err, I can’t get past JR Bourne’s acting. Sam/Orlin – Orlin was cute and sweet and stalkerish and I’ve never seen romantic chemistry between him and Sam. SPF and AT work great together, I just don’t see it in romantic light. Sam/Joe – that I could see, but I think Barret is even more charming

Sam/Pete – don’t get me started..

The other lis:

Spoiler:

Originally posted by Cagranosalis

4. I like Jack as general. I think it suits him, he deserves it and it works for his character.That's an unpopular opinion? Not to me it isn't.

That's definitely an unpopular opinion. A lot of Jack fans complain tha he never should have been made a general, that it made him miserable and made him look incompetent, was just painful to watch and it didn't work at all. I remember that I had to take a break from the forum in season 8 because I was so sick of hearing it all the time. And now it's often brought up in SGU folder.

10. While I'm certain Jack and Daniel are close friends I don't see them as best friends ever.
I think Daniel's line in Continuum "closest thing to a best friend" sums it up.

See, I kinda see it as fanon becoming canon. Personally, while watching the series, I've never noticed Jack treating Daniel differently than Sam or Teal'c. Sure, there was a bond between them right from the beginning - Daniel saved Jack's life after all - but seriosly, when did they have time, back on Abydos, to become friends? I always assumed Jack, Kowalsky and Ferretti left soon after Ra's death.There wasn't much time for bonding. And then during the series, Teal'c was the one Jack hunged around with, Teal'c was there for Jack in his more emotional moments..But a large part of fandom somehow saw Jack and Daniel as best friends sharing extra special bond and eventually the writers started to write them this way.
As a side note, do I remember it incorrectly, or is there no separate goodbye scene between Jack and Daniel in Lost City?

Originally posted by Nynaeve506

5. I don't see any SG-1 team member as a spotless hero. They all have faults and make mistakes. Is there someone who thinks they're flawless?? Certainly not me! LOL

"SG-1 = flawless heroes" became a popular opinion around the time SGU premiered. Apparently Sam is Mary Sue who can do no wrong, Daniel is a saint, Teal'c is absolved of the crimes he allegedly commited and Jack is such a good, moral man that he wouldn't leave behind even his mortal enemy and he'd risk his life to save everyone, including the likes of Simmons, Kinsey and goa'ulds.

I kid you not, I've seen such post and it wasn't sarcastic.

Sam as 2IC of the SGC:

Ah, I stand corrected about Sam being in charge of the SGC in EATG. I forgot about that (I'm not a big fan of SGA

). As for Uninvited, for me it was just a poor attempt to appease Sam fans who were pissed about Cam taking SG-1 command from her. It didn't make any sense. Is Lt Col really the highest rank in the SGC? Reynolds, a full bird colonel was conviniently off-world, but what about all the other colonels? Dixon? Ferretti? Lawrence? Grief? Oki, I'll stop now, as it's not a place for ranting about it.

**Nynaeve506** · 20 March 2010, 12:38 PM

Petra

I had a long post but then my computer burped.

Summed up it said that some points I semi-agreed with or didn't really care one way or the other (and a few I did disagree with) so I didn't list them.

The highlights:
1. I don't feel strongly about Jack being a general. It was a natural progression :: shrugs ::
2. I never really saw Sam/Barrett chemistry. He always seemed like the guy that had a dorky crush on Sam but that she just wasn't into (dude, she's just not that into you).
3. I never really understood people being upset about Sam not in command of SG-1. Cam was offered the team (she left and didn't want to come back) - he put together his team... and asked Sam to join him and she did. Why would they take it away from him and give it back to Sam who thought she wasn't coming back forever anyway? Besides in my world, she had Jack so let Cam do the paperwork

4. I love Sam and Jack because it enhances the characters. It makes them richer, deeper and it utilizes some of the strongest acting skills.

I'm not a shipper to the denial of everything else. I am a shipper because it's an integral part of SG-1 and it happens to feature my two favorite characters.

Slightly OT from S/J so I'll spoiler it, but here are a few of *my* "unpopular" opinions LOL:

Spoiler:

**Petra** · 20 March 2010, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post

I'm not a shipper to the denial of everything else. I am a shipper because it's an integral part of SG-1 and it happens to feature my two favorite characters.

And this sums up my feelings perfectly. Green for you!

Heh, I could even put it in my sig...

Slightly OT from S/J so I'll spoiler it, but here are a few of *my* "unpopular" opinions LOL:

Spoiler:

**Nynaeve506** · 20 March 2010, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Petra View Post

And this sums up my feelings perfectly. Green for you!

Heh, I could even put it in my sig...

Spoiler:

You want to quote me?! LOL If you want feel free

As for my spoilered part - I don't hang out much in the other forums of fandom (I have a lot of time constraints LOL) which is why I put "unpopular" in quotations - which I should have clarified - I can only compare to what I've heard most vocally in the S/J forum.

Speaking of Jonas Hansen - it's interesting to me that Sam got involved with Jack in AUs where she wasn't military (I've always thought perhaps she didn't join because of mom's death? But now I realize that's an assumption of facts we're never given). I wonder if she would have ended up dating Jonas in any other timeline. Just a thought to perhaps spark a discussion...

**Rachel500** · 21 March 2010, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post

<snip>

Speaking of Jonas Hansen - it's interesting to me that Sam got involved with Jack in AUs where she wasn't military (I've always thought perhaps she didn't join because of mom's death? But now I realize that's an assumption of facts we're never given). I wonder if she would have ended up dating Jonas in any other timeline. Just a thought to perhaps spark a discussion...

Interesting question.

I think the problem with TBFTGOG and POV that actually we don't really know much about the events that transpired for each individual character beyond the broad brush strokes of the differences:

TBFTGOG:
Daniel never joined the SGC but the SGC still want to Abydos and killed Ra but never back or to Chulak
Catherine leads the civilian arm of the Stargate programme
Jack is a General and leads the military arm of the Stargate programme; he did lose Charlie in the same way as in our universe
Sam is a civilian scientist and engaged to Jack
Hammond is a Colonel
Teal'c seems to be as conflicted about the Goa'uld as our Teal'c but unwilling to change sides

While the back-story for Jack seems to have followed the same as our Jack bar events being different once he joined the SGC (their experience being very different because of the lack of Daniel), Sam's back-story is completely open. It's just as likely an explanation for Sam not joining the military because her mother was still alive and therefore with two parents, the need to impress/gain approval from her father was diluted (or that Jacob's parenting was softened by the presence of his wife enabling him to give approval much easier), as it is for her mother to have died and for Sam to have blamed her father. I think it's feasibly possible that if Sam wasn't anti-military that she might have met Jonas and dated him in this AU.

POV:
Daniel never joined the SGC but the SGC still want to Abydos and killed Ra but never back or to Chulak
Kawalsky lived (presumably because they never went to Chulak for him to get snaked)
Jack is a Colonel; it's unclear whether Jack lost Charlie the same way as in our universe, if there was a Sara and Charlie at all
Sam is a civilian scientist and married to Jack
Hammond is a General andl running the SGC
Teal'c seems happy to be Apophis's First Prime

Both Jack and Sam's back-stories are left fairly open wide. It's possible that Jack's followed a very similar path up until the point he joined the SGC to ours given Sam finds him to be very similar to her own.

However, Sam's back-story is only hinted at in her reactions. She's very prickly with Sam over what our Sam sees as the main fork in the road: Sam not joining the military. Now AU Sam is very defensive and almost angry with the suggestion that its this decision that was one of the defining factors that altered each universe's destiny - unsurprisingly because I think she feels enough blame for what happened and so is defensive on that level already - but for me her reaction also suggests that she could never contemplate joining the military; that it wasn't an option she would ever have considered at all.

Which indicates for me that there was much more of a definitive moment where AU Sam decided that she wouldn't ever join the military which perhaps didn't take place in TBFTGOG universe. Now, we know from our own Sam that if she and her father hadn't had the talk she remembered in Jolinar's Memories that she believes she would never have forgiven him for her mother's death, and never joined up. Which seems to me to be the critical fork in the road in this instance (although there could have easily been another explanation, some other trauma, that drove AU Sam to decide against the military). In this instance, as I think AU Sam would be fairly anti-military during her youth with these events, I think it's less likely that she might have met Jonas and dated him in this AU. I guess I kind of see her being forced by the Stargate programme to work with the military, and it's only her interaction then that softens her opinions, especially when she finds despite everything she's falling in love with Jack anyway...

**Nynaeve506** · 21 March 2010, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post

Interesting question.

I think the problem with TBFTGOG and POV that actually we don't really know much about the events that transpired for each individual character beyond the broad brush strokes of the differences:

TBFTGOG:
Daniel never joined the SGC but the SGC still want to Abydos and killed Ra but never back or to Chulak
Catherine leads the civilian arm of the Stargate programme
Jack is a General and leads the military arm of the Stargate programme; he did lose Charlie in the same way as in our universe
Sam is a civilian scientist and engaged to Jack
Hammond is a Colonel
Teal'c seems to be as conflicted about the Goa'uld as our Teal'c but unwilling to change sides

While the back-story for Jack seems to have followed the same as our Jack bar events being different once he joined the SGC (their experience being very different because of the lack of Daniel), Sam's back-story is completely open. It's just as likely an explanation for Sam not joining the military because her mother was still alive and therefore with two parents, the need to impress/gain approval from her father was diluted (or that Jacob's parenting was softened by the presence of his wife enabling him to give approval much easier), as it is for her mother to have died and for Sam to have blamed her father. I think it's feasibly possible that if Sam wasn't anti-military that she might have met Jonas and dated him in this AU.

POV:
Daniel never joined the SGC but the SGC still want to Abydos and killed Ra but never back or to Chulak
Kawalsky lived (presumably because they never went to Chulak for him to get snaked)
Jack is a Colonel; it's unclear whether Jack lost Charlie the same way as in our universe, if there was a Sara and Charlie at all
Sam is a civilian scientist and married to Jack
Hammond is a General andl running the SGC
Teal'c seems happy to be Apophis's First Prime

Both Jack and Sam's back-stories are left fairly open wide. It's possible that Jack's followed a very similar path up until the point he joined the SGC to ours given Sam finds him to be very similar to her own.

However, Sam's back-story is only hinted at in her reactions. She's very prickly with Sam over what our Sam sees as the main fork in the road: Sam not joining the military. Now AU Sam is very defensive and almost angry with the suggestion that its this decision that was one of the defining factors that altered each universe's destiny - unsurprisingly because I think she feels enough blame for what happened and so is defensive on that level already - but for me her reaction also suggests that she could never contemplate joining the military; that it wasn't an option she would ever have considered at all.

Which indicates for me that there was much more of a definitive moment where AU Sam decided that she wouldn't ever join the military which perhaps didn't take place in TBFTGOG universe. Now, we know from our own Sam that if she and her father hadn't had the talk she remembered in Jolinar's Memories that she believes she would never have forgiven him for her mother's death, and never joined up. Which seems to me to be the critical fork in the road in this instance (although there could have easily been another explanation, some other trauma, that drove AU Sam to decide against the military). In this instance, as I think AU Sam would be fairly anti-military during her youth with these events, I think it's less likely that she might have met Jonas and dated him in this AU. I guess I kind of see her being forced by the Stargate programme to work with the military, and it's only her interaction then that softens her opinions, especially when she finds despite everything she's falling in love with Jack anyway...

Rachel,

What a great breakdown - that's a lot of how I see it in my own head and you really just laid it out! I wanted to write an AU non-military Sam series (I know Annerb has a good one but just like a stranded!fic I want to write on of my own) - and so I've been playing with the backstory in my head (for a while).

**Lady eliza** · 29 March 2010, 05:34 AM

Lol on the cruise honeymoon. I loved the washing up story and I got a stargate dvd for my birthday.

**hedwig** · 29 March 2010, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post

You want to quote me?! LOL If you want feel free

As for my spoilered part - I don't hang out much in the other forums of fandom (I have a lot of time constraints LOL) which is why I put "unpopular" in quotations - which I should have clarified - I can only compare to what I've heard most vocally in the S/J forum.

Speaking of Jonas Hansen - it's interesting to me that Sam got involved with Jack in AUs where she wasn't military (I've always thought perhaps she didn't join because of mom's death? But now I realize that's an assumption of facts we're never given). I wonder if she would have ended up dating Jonas in any other timeline. Just a thought to perhaps spark a discussion...

Just my own opinion about the bolded: If Sam had not joined the military (as in the two mentioned AU episodes), I'm not all that sure she would even have met Jonas Hansen, much less dated him. Since we don't know what he was like when they met and started dating, it's sort of hard to decide whether she would or wouldn't have dated him.

I would like to have found out how she met Jack in those alternate realities, though. Did she meet him because of the Stargate program? Was she involved with the program before she met him? Since she apparently knew Catherine Langford in our reality before becoming part of the SGC, what sort of influence did that friendship have? Maybe Catherine introduced Sam and Jack in at least one of the AU's?

**EvenstarSRV** · 29 March 2010, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by hedwig View Post

Just my own opinion about the bolded: If Sam had not joined the military (as in the two mentioned AU episodes), I'm not all that sure she would even have met Jonas Hansen, much less dated him. Since we don't know what he was like when they met and started dating, it's sort of hard to decide whether she would or wouldn't have dated him.

I've always thought that Sam most likely met Jonas either at the Academy or in the Gulf, so with her not joining the military I don't think they would have ever met, except perhaps when he later joined the SGC.

I would like to have found out how she met Jack in those alternate realities, though. Did she meet him because of the Stargate program? Was she involved with the program before she met him? Since she apparently knew Catherine Langford in our reality before becoming part of the SGC, what sort of influence did that friendship have? Maybe Catherine introduced Sam and Jack in at least one of the AU's?

My personal theory about the Grace of God and POV AUs is that Sam was brought into the Stargate program by Catherine and she figured out the gate symbols and got the gate to work, so there was no need for Catherine to recruit Daniel. Jack was brought in for the first mission and, like Daniel did in the movie, Sam convinced them to let her go too. Events played out as they did in the film except that Sam and Jack, having bonded over the events on Abydos, get together once they both return to Earth.

**Nynaeve506** · 29 March 2010, 03:41 PM

I think perhaps I've spent far too much time watching LOST and it's influencing how I watch things like Stargate LOL. In my AU story I'm writing now I have her having met Jonas while in DC (her not military). I hadn't considered her going to Abydos and now I'm rethinking my story. Hmmm... hmmm...

EDIT: LOST is influencing me because one of the questions being raised is how much of who we meet and what happens in our lives is fate and will happen regardless of the time line (perhaps even in a different way) and what is able to be changed

This is why I find AUs so interesting LOL

**leiasky** · 29 March 2010, 04:01 PM

My reponses are in BOLD.

1. I don't want them to get married. Nor do I see them wanting to get married.

I can see them both wanting to be married. But I can see them both not really caring if they aren't.

2. No kids. I just can't see them having children.

I don't either. Which is sad because Jack would make a great dad.

3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship.

Me either.

4. I see their ship as part of team interactions, not a separate thing. What's happening between them influences other team members and what's happening between, say, Jack and Teal'c influences S/J ship.

Absolutely agree.

5. I like Laira and Anise/Freya.

On the surface, Laira is a great character. But her actions are unforgivable when she doesn't tell Jack aboiut the radio.

I liked Anise/ Freya and would have loved to see her try and chase Jack - only to be shot down. Then move onto Daniel. Some 'second choice' banter between Daniel and Jack would have been fun. . . and some carefully hidden jealousy from Sam.

6. I can't stand Martouf.

I didn't have a problem with him.

7. I used to like Orlin but after reading a few posts (made by a guy!) explaining why Orlin's behaviour was creepy and inexcusable I tend to agree with that poster's reasoning.

I didn't have a problem with him either.

8. If I wasn't a die-hard S/J shipper I could definitely see Jack with Kerry and Sam with Barret.

Spoiler:

9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in Unending (I am very uncomfortable with its implications and consequences in normal timeline though)

Sam/Teal'c doesn't work for me in Unending because of the implications and consequences for Teal'c in the normal timeline.

Ditto this.

I also didn't see anything in the episode that made me think they hooked up. I had to listen to the commentary to even know about it.

10. I don't think either Sam or Jack stayed celibate for 8 years. I can see them having one night stands/short affairs off-screen.

I see Jack doing this more than Sam.

11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight".

I agree. It grew from friendship.

12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.

Really? Someone argues that? I agree with you: Jack wasn't a chauvinist.
[B]

13. As recently discussed, I do believe Sam was quite happy with her job and friends and without a guy for the first 5-6 seasons.

I'll qualify that and say Sam was happy with her job/friends and without a guy S1-S3; she was happy with her job/friends and knowing the guy she loved, loved her S4; she was resigned to not having said guy and content with her life otherwise in S5 and S6 for me.

14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable.

Agreed.

15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1.

I think Jack and Sara had been happy together until Charlie's death and that a part of Jack will always love Sara.

16. I don't believe that the age difference between Jack and Sam is so big that he's old enough to be her father.

I won't open the dialogue vs prop debate. I think he's at most 12/14 years older than her.

17. I can see Jack and Kerry becoming friends.

I see them being cordial at the office if she works in Washington, but nothing else.

And on your other points:

Spoiler:

I left some previous answers in bold because I felt the same way.

**seldear** · 30 March 2010, 02:53 PM

1. I don't want them to get married. Nor do I see them wanting to get married.

Truthfully, I don't see them doing this either. They're too work-oriented, esp. now that Jack's head of Homeworld Sec and Carter's in command of the George Hammond - a front-line role that's going to earn her a lot of scrutiny, both as a commander and as a female commander.

If it was known that she and Jack were in a relationship, what kinds of questions do you think that would bring up, given that it's pretty much public knowledge they worked together on the Stargate Project? Even among those who knew of them, but didn't know them, it would become a problem. Technically, Jack's no longer her direct-line superior - although Sam would report to whoever the "General Of The Space Navy" is, who probably reports to Landry, who reports to Jack. So there's still a chain of command, albeit a little blurred.

I don't see them being public about their relationship at all - for Sam's career, mostly, but also because it's habit, it's being careful, and they don't feel the need to share with their colleagues. It's no longer strictly "against regs" but it's still not "okay".

2. No kids. I just can't see them having children.

Agree. Not for Jack after Charlie, and Sam has never been particularly maternal. She loves Cassie, sure, and Cassie's kinda their adopted daughter, I imagine, but that's about as much as they can handle. Their work isn't condusive to children, and their lives are quite happy without.

3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship.

I was for a brief span. I'm not anymore. Their work with the AirForce is too much of who they are; they can't give that up and still be whole enough to carry on a relationship. I could have seen this, say, at the end of S8. But Jack being promoted to Homeworld Sec? Changes the ballgame.

8. If I wasn't a die-hard S/J shipper I could definitely see Jack with Kerry and Sam with Barret.

I am a die-hard S/J shipper, and I can still see Jack/Kerry and Sam/Barrett. But since it's implied Sam/Jack in the background of "future seasons" (Sam's words to Keller in SGA: Trio), I imagine that Jack is very careful around Kerry, and Sam, when she encounters Barrett, is similarly careful - even though there was nothing there in that case.

9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in Unending (I am very uncomfortable with its implications and consequences in normal timeline though)

I only watched SG1: Unending once. There was Sam/Teal'c?

11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight".

I don't believe in "love at first sight". Attraction at first sight, yes. Love? No. Love grows - perhaps out of attraction of the body ("chemistry" - lord, how I loathe that word), perhaps out of attraction of the mind or spirit.

12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.

People actually believe this? "Braincheck! I need a braincheck in aisle six! Aisle six, braincheck, please!"

14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable.

I'd say that his relationship with her would have had the tags of emotional abuse to it. Controlling personality, god-complex, he was probably a very possessive guy. I imagine him being very hands-on, and Sam being very "hands off!" Still, I can see Hansen being one of the few guys to seriously pay attention to her, and that turning her head and, to some degree, switching off her warning signs. She does, howeer, have a strong sense of her own boundaries, so she wouldn't put up with his **** for very long after she saw the writing on the wall.

15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1.

I really don't get why people have such a problem with the characters having been in love with other people at some stage? It's not like we're all mooning around waiting for our true love to turn up...

Was it love? Yes. Did it last? No. Sometimes that happens. You can love more than one person in your life, you can love more than one person at once - although I do believe you have to make a committment to one or risk wrecking things. Biologists may argue that we're not made to be monogamous; but emotionally and psychologically, it's not in us to share that which we really love.

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