Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

I know I whine a lot lately. Cheer me up, please?

I've got nothing... Sorry!

[Pajus]

You know, that was a stupid thing to ask in the first place.

I know I whine a lot lately. Cheer me up, please?

I cheered you up last week by giving you the first chapter of our story and by that statue of Sheppard made of chocolate, remember?

[Irish Eyes]

How was whatever this episode was called? I heard they recycled sparky eyesex and gave it to the other ship. If they did, I'm totally loling at the obvious.

Well, whoever is saying this needs their eyes checked.

Spoiler:

If you blinked, you missed the look. Now the Sparky look in the Seige went on for an eternity. That's eye!sex!!!

100 years! At least the agony of college football changes every year. lol



One thing to remember. First Contact was written by Gero. I caught that supposed eyesex moment. It was no such thing.

Spoiler:

The control room was about to explode. John told Teyla to leave. She tried to disobey as usual. There was a look between them. He said something like "please" I forget the dialogue and she reluctantly left. Now you can look at this 2 ways. 1. You're my teammate. We've already lost Rodney we think. I can't lose you too. 2. Your child needs you. What are you thinking? I chose the former because again it's Gero. I think if he intended that moment to be shippy it's even squickier than that kiss in S2. The woman essentially has a husband and child. Did they conveniently disappear into a black hole? Just badwritingbadwritingbadwriting.

Now I want to discuss more important things. Considering our discussion of this week about John there were a couple of glaring things in this ep. Even my husband noticed.

Spoiler:

John was made fun of twice. Once Rodney and Daniel snickered about John qualifying for Mensa. And later Zelenka made a crack about having to "dumb down" his explanation of some technobabbly for Sheppard. This again is Gero and I for one am sick of it. Thank God he's not writing the movie. No tellin' how much damage he'll do in The Lost Tribe and Brainstorm. He should have multiple chances to get his digs in, especially in that last one.

Yes, my agony has remained the same for many *cough* years. Maybe this year...

I noticed the same thing about John in First Contact.

Spoiler:

It irritated me no end that they did that. I think it was supposed to give Rodney and Daniel something to bond over, but when you do it at the expense of other characters, well, what did you call it? I think we all know. What I think may happen in the next episode is Shep saves them all, hopefully through his intelligence, not his guns.

You know what really shocked me in the episode?

Spoiler:

Someone actually said the words "Dr. Weir." Wow. She really did exist.

[Anuna]

Okay, so no more whining from me, lol!

I think we can positively say this show should be named Rodney's adventures in the big bad universe. Because, seriously? I don't think they're doing justice to any of their characters.

[Pajus]

Okay, so no more whining from me, lol!

I think we can positively say this show should be named Rodney's adventures in the big bad universe. Because, seriously? I don't think they're doing justice to any of their characters.

What about Keller?

[Anuna]

What about Keller?

Oh also, Keller flirts with Rodney. Add explosions. Voila! You have a winning show! Oh wait it got canceled.

[Southern Red]

Well, whoever is saying this needs their eyes checked.

Spoiler:

If you blinked, you missed the look. Now the Sparky look in the Seige went on for an eternity. That's eye!sex!!!

Yes, my agony has remained the same for many *cough* years. Maybe this year...

I noticed the same thing about John in First Contact.

Spoiler:

It irritated me no end that they did that. I think it was supposed to give Rodney and Daniel something to bond over, but when you do it at the expense of other characters, well, what did you call it? I think we all know. What I think may happen in the next episode is Shep saves them all, hopefully through his intelligence, not his guns.

You know what really shocked me in the episode?

Spoiler:

Someone actually said the words "Dr. Weir." Wow. She really did exist.

I was shocked too.

Spoiler:

But it was Teyla and she called her "Dr.Weir". What's that about? Oh, I know. They're trying to make it less personal. She's just another former leader.

And I forgot something else about John.

Spoiler:

They showed him having fallen asleep reading War and Peace. WTF? I would think he could have finished that damn book in nearly 5 years. I know he's busy and all but sheesh! Goes to my theory of showing him reading magazines lately. Now he's not only lost his math skilz but can't stay awake to read a real book.

I may be over reacting but I'm just very angry at these writers.

BTW, I thought First Contact was quite good. Other than the John thing.
And my new ship is Todd/Jennifer. Toddifer rocks!

Okay, so no more whining from me, lol!

I think we can positively say this show should be named Rodney's adventures in the big bad universe. Because, seriously? I don't think they're doing justice to any of their characters.

Oh, I don't know. I think they're doing okay with Todd.

[Pajus]

BTW, I thought First Contact was quite good. Other than the John thing.
And my new ship is Todd/Jennifer. Toddifer rocks!

Oh yeah...

[Anuna]

Actually I care not about Todd, I find myself caring less and less about Rodney, because everything has to be about Rodney, but really, showing John as illiterate, ignorant, sexist, careless and dumb is not going to make me want to watch this show. *headdesk* And their idea of new enemies is just... it's so Gero.


Guys we need to get back on track with Sparky talk. I think John is reading War and Peace for the umpteenth time just to keep his mind off Elizabeth. But eventually he will sleepwalk toward a jumper, dial the right address, find her, sail/fly into the sunset with her (and find a race that can give her the real Elizabeth body of course), and some Repli!John will go back to Atlantis and nobody will notice because they'll be too busy listening to Rodney and Daniel babbling their heads off.

[Southern Red]

Actually I care not about Todd, I find myself caring less and less about Rodney, because everything has to be about Rodney, but really, showing John as illiterate, ignorant, sexist, careless and dumb is not going to make me want to watch this show. *headdesk* And their idea of new enemies is just... it's so Gero.


Guys we need to get back on track with Sparky talk. I think John is reading War and Peace for the umpteenth time just to keep his mind off Elizabeth. But eventually he will sleepwalk toward a jumper, dial the right address, find her, sail/fly into the sunset with her (and find a race that can give her the real Elizabeth body of course), and some Repli!John will go back to Atlantis and nobody will notice because they'll be too busy listening to Rodney and Daniel babbling their heads off.

Good point. The book reminds him of her and in FC

Spoiler:

he fell asleep and dreamed about the time she came to his room when he was reading War and Peace and what he would have liked to happen.

[Anuna]

Good point. The book reminds him of her and in FC

Spoiler:

he fell asleep and dreamed about the time she came to his room when he was reading War and Peace and what he would have liked to happen.

How can you know it didn't happen? Heee. No, I'm not in gutter at all.

Also, there's no proof this isn't some Repli!John while the real John is somewhere with real Elizabeth in her real body. *nods* Yes, that's right. Repli!John is working on his education.

[Irish Eyes]

I was shocked too.

Spoiler:

But it was Teyla and she called her "Dr.Weir". What's that about? Oh, I know. They're trying to make it less personal. She's just another former leader.

And I forgot something else about John.

Spoiler:

They showed him having fallen asleep reading War and Peace. WTF? I would think he could have finished that damn book in nearly 5 years. I know he's busy and all but sheesh! Goes to my theory of showing him reading magazines lately. Now he's not only lost his math skilz but can't stay awake to read a real book.

I may be over reacting but I'm just very angry at these writers.

BTW, I thought First Contact was quite good. Other than the John thing.
And my new ship is Todd/Jennifer. Toddifer rocks!



Oh, I don't know. I think they're doing okay with Todd.

First Contact

Spoiler:

The writers have been terrible when it comes to how people address each other on this show. Honestly. Don't even get me started.

Was that what John was reading? I didn't even catch that. Of course, every time they show his quarters I'm too busy looking for the mint jar.

The other thing that bugged me was Woolsey totally dissed Elizabeth (and Sam) and I was waiting for John to defend her and of course we got nothing.

I'm still hoping we get John defending Elizabeth in the upcoming episode

Spoiler:

Inquisition.

But I'm not holding my breath...

Sorry Anuna! I just have to purge my system of this stuff so I can enjoy happy Sparky again.

[Anuna]

Finally! I have answers to TRW questions!

1) Were you fooled at all by Elizabeth's replicator-induced dream? What did you initially believe was going on?

Hm. I thought that was some kind of alternate reality. We had a fair share of such stories on SG - 1 and I was unspoiled for this.

2) What did you think of Elizabeth's Mom, presuming the replicator version was pretty close to the real thing?

I liked her but at that point of the episode I was chanting wrong wrong WRONG in my head.

3) John's 'shadow' image appears almost menacing in Elizabeth's mind...why do you think that is?

The figure was really familiar. it served to convince me that something very wrong was happening to Elizabeth. Looking from the toher angle of the story, now when i know what was going on, it was John, trying to reach through to her and Replicators trying to make that look menacing, like really ugly hallucination to make sure she buys their scenario.

I think they "felt" she had strong will and enough of courage to fight them, so they did everything to scare her away. But Elizabeth is all about facing what she fears, and I like the subtle message in there (even if it was not intended) - the only way to defeat a fear is if you face it.

4) Back in the infirmary, John maintains a steady, fairly calm presence, though he's obviously worried. Did you like his reaction and his manner?

I loved him the whole time in this episode. He was there and refused to move, he didn't even avert his eyes from her, most of the time, even when other people talked to him. It was like he was glued to that spot, and his eyes were glued to her, actually all of him was there just for her. The rest of the world barely existed. With that kind of behavior saying "I love you" isn't really needed, because those words are there in all of his actions.

5) Did you like Richard Dean Anderson's cameos in this episode?

He was lots of fun as usual, even if he was not!Jack. *hearts RDA*

6) Was John's action in breaking isolation atypical of John in trying to save someone he cares about? Standard operating procedure for him? More reckless?

Risking his life for someone he cares for is standard, typical John, but there's something more important here. Like I said in my answer to question #4, all of him is there for her, and in the moment when almost everything is lost, John is the one who refuses to give up. Also, he knows what to do, and it's almost like instinct. He knows he has to get through to her and makes a damn big risk - he risks his health, his sanity, his life, but there are also professional risks - if he got infected then both of Atlantis leaders would be incapacitated and this is that significant moment when John puts Elizabeth above and before everything else, even Atlantis.

If I recall correctly he never done something like that before and never again.

7) How would you characterize Elizabeth's attitude in the final scene? John's?

Hmmmm. This is, basically the episode where we got to see Elizabeth's strength in full glory, but we also saw her almost giving up. Actually she did give up in one moment and obediently went along the parade, accepted the fake reality - she was fooled. That's the worst thing about this nightmare, she bought it and there was no more hope.

After she woke up she realized that someone, something could manipulate her so badly to make her believe there was no more hope. It must have been awful, and I guess she was contemplating that. Hence her words to John not to joke about the real world.

Basically I think this event shook her up to the core and redefined her view of reality. Dealing with an experience like that takes time - nice thing that she had her father's watch in her hands.

8) In a show that is basically non-ship, this episode is a pretty darn powerful argument for, at the very least, an Elizabeth/John relationship that goes deeper than an administrative partnership. How do you think it made it out of the writer's room?

I guess we'll never know - but this is Carl Binder episode and he knows to play human relationships and he knows two leaders share the burden together and if one of them is down the other one should be helping his/her co - leader to get up. I guess the writers wanted John to be the hero who saves the day (and Elizabeth) and didn't realize just how shippy it would look. Their problem is that they obviously don't understand that love is not only in words, or hugs or kisses. It's literally in every breath, the attitude, the actions one takes; it's more than words, just like that old song says. Actions speak louder than words, and IMO love was written all over John's face as he stared at Elizabeth under the scanner.

9) Do you think this episode 'canonizes' Sparky? If not, where is it canonized for you?

Actually the champagne scene from The Rising canonized Sparky for me, this episode makes it clear in case someone out there missed it by any chance.

10) Is there anything you would have liked to add to TRW to make it better? What?

A kiss. A real one, and two of them together, alone, in some very private setting - in case you failed to read between the lines - in bed!

[Anuna]

First Contact

Spoiler:

The writers have been terrible when it comes to how people address each other on this show. Honestly. Don't even get me started.

Was that what John was reading? I didn't even catch that. Of course, every time they show his quarters I'm too busy looking for the mint jar.

The other thing that bugged me was Woolsey totally dissed Elizabeth (and Sam) and I was waiting for John to defend her and of course we got nothing.

I'm still hoping we get John defending Elizabeth in the upcoming episode

Spoiler:

Inquisition.

But I'm not holding my breath...

Sorry Anuna! I just have to purge my system of this stuff so I can enjoy happy Sparky again.

Sweetie, it's not you who needs to apologize. ((hugs))

[Ruined_puzzle]

Ah thanks guys I knew it had to be greatly exaggerated. But seriously stop recycling sparky moments and giving them to the other ship, it only makes it obvious how wrong it is and how sparky was first and better. If I was for the "other" ship I would be all I don't want your recycled moments. lol. I would be offended.

Spoiler:

I'm sorry to hear about John. I remember when John told Elizabeth that he could have been mensa when she complimented him on his plan. It was cute. Elizabeth didn't make fun of him because of that. She just made fun of him when he was kirking/being a dork.


SHEPPARD: I left one of our best Special Ops guys on the planet when we searched him. If Ladon goes anywhere, my guy will find him.

WEIR: Good thinking.

SHEPPARD: Could've been Mensa!