Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Eri13]

And the worst part: My brain is on a writing spree nd won't let me sleep unless I get more stories done

I felt like that with first seven or eight chapters of TSM. Then I was drained and the whole thing dragged on, but I had to finish it.

I'm currently that way on my long story, Testament. I have sort of an idea where I want it to go, but no energy to write it. And when I do find time, it spend more time watching the cursor go 'blink blink' than anything else.

[Anuna]

I'm currently that way on my long story, Testament. I have sort of an idea where I want it to go, but no energy to write it. And when I do find time, it spend more time watching the cursor go 'blink blink' than anything else.

I know that feeling way too good.

My beta just got back to me. She'll be done with the story on Monday.

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies!

The only thing I've seen really darker is the lighting. lol

*dies laughing* So true!

And wtf is up with the lack of lighting, anyway? I mean, I could see it being that dark back in Season 1 when they didn't have a ZPM and were only running parts of the city on the naquadah generators, but for it to suddenly go that dark now, when they've have at least one ZPM online since the beginning of Season 2? Grade-A stupid. *smacks the lighting designer with a 2x4*

And most of my negativity has come not only from the lack of Sparky but the lack of Sheppard, who is still my favorite character.

This idea of the perfect hero has been a point of disagreement between TPTW and JF from the beginning. Joe has said in numerous interviews that he's been told that the hero can't *insert negative trait of your choice here* I remember early on in S1 he said they gave him the DVD's of Firefly to watch and told him that Mal was the opposite of what they wanted. I loved Mal for his imperfections. He was a lot more interesting than Sheppard has become.

I think in eps like Whispers and some others where he has basically nothing new to do but just goes along being the commander, running with guns, and shooting bad guys don't present any acting challenges. It's like the office worker who inputs data, attends boring meetings and rides home on the bus every day. He may do a good job but after awhile it all seems the same. Joe absolutely shines when he has something new to do. There have been wonderful scenes in S5 like

Spoiler:

under the rubble with Ronon, the infirmary scene with Keller in S&R, the beer scene in The Shrine,

but those are few and far between.

I agree. Once they threw Elizabeth under the bus in Season 4, Sheppard's been the only thing really holding me to the show, and with him being even further diminished this year... I am very glad the show's been canceled.

After all, Sheppard was supposed to be the big damn hero. The ATA gene and his interaction with Ancient technology was supposed to be his big thing, his ticket onto the expedition, and that's been thrown in the garbage. Now he's just another point-and-shoot grunt. How boring!

As for killing John off, I don't think that will happen unless Joe wants to leave. They aren't that stupid. No really, they can't be. Can they? And I don't think he is going to turn down work for such a short period that will pay so well. Unless he gets a better deal. *crosses fingers*

Why not? TPTW have made plenty of stupid decisions before, and they excel at being petty and downright mean when it comes to people who disagree with them on those decisions. And certainly, since they're all hot to trot to get on with SGU, they could be intending for this movie to be SGA's swan song so they can get it out of the way. At this point, I wouldn't put anything past them. *shrugs*

RE: Regarding the Mal vs John conversation, I think John is very much being sculpted unintentionally into a more Mal-type character. John in S1-S3 was before Mal's war; John during S4 and S5 is afterwards. It's not as deep as Mal, but I can definately see it.

That should be what's happening but I'm not sure it's intentional on the writers' part. They just write John the same as always and move on to McKeller IMHO.

Yeah, the writers definitely don't intend it to come out that way. It's JoeF recognizing that John should be that way, and injecting little things into his performance, like facial expressions, body language, the tone of his voice, to bring it out in a more subtle way. It's just like when he spoke up to TPTW about putting in those lines about wanting to look for Elizabeth in Reunion; JoeF knew that needed to be there, because he knew that the characters would be feeling that way. He's clearly more in tune with how John and the others would feel than the writers are.

[Scary Kitty]

I know that feeling way too good.

My beta just got back to me. She'll be done with the story on Monday.

More Sparky smuttage? Yay! *squees*

[Reiko]

Mal is/was wonderful. He is deeply flawed, stubborn, cares deeply about his team, closed off in his emotions, snarky...um and a bunch of other stuff. He's the quintessential anti-hero. Much better written than John ever has been. Even in S1, IMHO. So yeah, I'd say it's all JF. He has created John out of cobwebs.

See, I think Joe Flanigan could do great with a character like this, but the sad truth is that the SG writer's simply aren't good enough, don't consider it, and yes, there are more important things to them. (*cough*McKeller.) But I can easily see John as a more watered-down version of Mal, as I also think Mal pre-Independent War was much like John in S1. Now? In S4 I would imagine he would be more Mal-like.

In fact once he gets the gang back together (he will, even if only in dreams) I think his protectiveness over them will be even stronger, he will be far more stubborn and closed-off and I can easily imagine that he wouldn't care about much anymore but keeping the family together; he does was has to be done, nothing more, nothing less. This would be such a fascinating character to explore, creating something deeper yet still sticking to the character's orginal personality the the first season. Just darker, again, using the young Mal comparison.

Teyla? Would so totally be John's Zoe. Completely platonic.

Someone needs to write a fic about the Atlantis crew in the Firefly universe. That would be awesome.

[poundpuppy29]

I started a new game first to 50 it's a Elizabeth shipping game all Elizabeth ship people can play

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=59540

[Scary Kitty]

See, I think Joe Flanigan could do great with a character like this, but the sad truth is that the SG writer's simply aren't good enough, don't consider it, and yes, there are more important things to them. (*cough*McKeller.) But I can easily see John as a more watered-down version of Mal, as I also think Mal pre-Independent War was much like John in S1. Now? In S4 I would imagine he would be more Mal-like.

In fact once he gets the gang back together (he will, even if only in dreams) I think his protectiveness over them will be even stronger, he will be far more stubborn and closed-off and I can easily imagine that he wouldn't care about much anymore but keeping the family together; he does was has to be done, nothing more, nothing less. This would be such a fascinating character to explore, creating something deeper yet still sticking to the character's orginal personality the the first season. Just darker, again, using the young Mal comparison.

Teyla? Would so totally be John's Zoe. Completely platonic.

Someone needs to write a fic about the Atlantis crew in the Firefly universe. That would be awesome.

I LOVE that. That's just so John. He'd never let Elizabeth out of his sight again! Which could certainly make off-world missions rather interesting...

[Southern Red]

See, I think Joe Flanigan could do great with a character like this, but the sad truth is that the SG writer's simply aren't good enough, don't consider it, and yes, there are more important things to them. (*cough*McKeller.) But I can easily see John as a more watered-down version of Mal, as I also think Mal pre-Independent War was much like John in S1. Now? In S4 I would imagine he would be more Mal-like.

In fact once he gets the gang back together (he will, even if only in dreams) I think his protectiveness over them will be even stronger, he will be far more stubborn and closed-off and I can easily imagine that he wouldn't care about much anymore but keeping the family together; he does was has to be done, nothing more, nothing less. This would be such a fascinating character to explore, creating something deeper yet still sticking to the character's orginal personality the the first season. Just darker, again, using the young Mal comparison.

Teyla? Would so totally be John's Zoe. Completely platonic.

Someone needs to write a fic about the Atlantis crew in the Firefly universe. That would be awesome.

Not to keep harping on the Firefly comparison...but well maybe a little bit more. If you haven't seen Serenity, don't click.

Spoiler:

Wouldn't it have been totally squeeful to have seen Mal, Zoe and the team after Serenity dealing with the loss of Wash. The angst, the drama, the gunfire.

And I too always thought of Teyla as John's Zoe. Imagine how well that relationship could have been written. Now John just looks like he doesn't quite know what to make of her, like she's someone he's just met and he's being careful not to offend her. And she acts like he's someone from another planet that she hasn't a clue about....oh wait. I guess they have written that one pretty well.

[Scary Kitty]

Not to keep harping on the Firefly comparison...but well maybe a little bit more. If you haven't seen Serenity, don't click.

Spoiler:

Wouldn't it have been totally squeeful to have seen Mal, Zoe and the team after Serenity dealing with the loss of Wash. The angst, the drama, the gunfire.

Spoiler:

LOL at "the gunfire." I mean, losing Wash sucked, but the way you put it sounds really funny! In a sick, twisted, dark humor kind of way. Love it!

And I too always thought of Teyla as John's Zoe. Imagine how well that relationship could have been written. Now John just looks like he doesn't quite know what to make of her, like she's someone he's just met and he's being careful not to offend her. And she acts like he's someone from another planet that she hasn't a clue about....oh wait. I guess they have written that one pretty well.

You mean the whole trying not to get too close to each other because they're afraid they're gonna catch a cold from the other? Because seriously, that's exactly what their body language is screaming at me.

[Southern Red]

Spoiler:

LOL at "the gunfire." I mean, losing Wash sucked, but the way you put it sounds really funny! In a sick, twisted, dark humor kind of way. Love it!

You mean the whole trying not to get too close to each other because they're afraid they're gonna catch a cold from the other? Because seriously, that's exactly what their body language is screaming at me.

lol. You're a naughty one today. Whereas John and Elizabeth act like they are connected by a tight elastic band.

[Scary Kitty]

lol. You're a naughty one today.

USC is having a rare Thursday night football game... and we're getting our butts kicked by Oregon State. Things always get screwy when we play the fraking Beavers. *headdesk*

Whereas John and Elizabeth act like they are connected by a tight elastic band.

Yup-yup. Those two have redefined the concept of personal space.

[AnnaBee]

Yup-yup. Those two have redefined the concept of personal space.

Yes, as in..."Personal space? What's personal space?"

[Scary Kitty]

Yes, as in..."Personal space? What's personal space?"

Heh! Clothes are personal space. (Yeah, we are so in the gutter tonight!)

[Anuna]

Heh! Clothes are personal space. (Yeah, we are so in the gutter tonight!)

You know clothes just invade the personal space which could be better used.

You, lady, have mail.

[Anuna]

Correction Scary Kitty, you don't have mail. I just got faliure notice... and verizon....