Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

OMG Mal...I love Firefly. That's another on my top 5 of all time. I love hero-types, but I also love understated questionable-hero types because of the complexity they generally bring to the table from the get-go. Mal was one of those--always edgy, but never toe-ing into the world of 'evil'. For me, he ranks alongside Dean Winchester and probably the darkest character I've ever loved, James "Sawyer" Ford from "LOST".

John never needed to be Mal; I liked him as he started out. I never expected SGA to be Firefly. My gripe came with the fact that he didn't change or go darker as events shaped his life. With the small glimpses we saw of darker John--the way he acted when friends were in danger, of course the stuff we loved in "The Eye" and the example what he did in Miller's Crossing--the tools were there. Just not the writing.

If they kill John off it won't be until the final movie, whenever they decide when that will be. Even if Joe were to say he wasn't coming back for, say, movie 5, I don't think they'd kill him off. John is the cornerstone of the show--they can give him 'vacation' but I don't think they can plausibly have him killed off and maintain a storyline order amidst the supporting cast. They'd all have to be reactive to his death--no plausibly getting around that one, he's John--which would be the ultimate mopey movie--everyone depressed he's no longer there.

We love all the same people. lol

RE: Regarding the Mal vs John conversation, I think John is very much being sculpted unintentionally into a more Mal-type character. John in S1-S3 was before Mal's war; John during S4 and S5 is afterwards. It's not as deep as Mal, but I can definately see it.

That should be what's happening but I'm not sure it's intentional on the writers' part. They just write John the same as always and move on to McKeller IMHO.

[Anuna]

Ive never watched Firefly (no, seriously!) so I don't know what kind of character Mal is, but if he's anything like John, I would probably like him.

I like dark heroes; not depressive dark, but flawed. Perfect heroes are boring, heroes who don't make mistakes and don't feel guilty are worse than fairy tale because even in fairy tale tehre's a better characterization. I honestly don't know what TPTW wanted if they wanted John to be opposite of Mal, or opposite of what he is/was through first three seasons.

I don't think he had a big story arc, it feels more like a "musical theme"; whenever someone is lost you know John will be the one who will take that the hardest. He started out with this weak spot and now it's an open wound because of the loss of Elizabeth. He was desperate enough to rescue her in TRW and risk himself; and after stating that, I think that the only thing what could be considered a John arc has everything to do with Elizabeth. He started out fresh and hopeful in a way, and after he lost her he lost the hope, the eagerness, he lost his spark (pun intended). But all of that wasn't something that has been intentionally written in and I still think JF is the one to credit for any John - continuity we have up to this point.

[Anuna]

Oh I forgot - new smut fic finished. It nearly killed me. I think I've done a decent John - character exploration.

[Pajus]

Oh I forgot - new smut fic finished. It nearly killed me. I think I've done a decent John - character exploration.

And where's the link?

Spoiler:

Is it drunken storage closet sex?

[Anuna]

And where's the link?

Spoiler:

Is it drunken storage closet sex?

No link yet, I just sent it to the beta. I want this fic to be really good.

No, it's not drunken sparky in a closet fic, I think it's much better than that. Also, it's from Sunday Fathers universe.

[Pajus]

No link yet, I just sent it to the beta. I want this fic to be really good.

No, it's not drunken sparky in a closet fic, I think it's much better than that. Also, it's from Sunday Fathers universe.

Okay... What's Sunday Fathers?

PS: You've made the first step towards your story being original

[Anuna]

This is Sunday Fathers: http://anuna-81.livejournal.com/44288.html

All kinds of fluff warnings there.

[Southern Red]

Ive never watched Firefly (no, seriously!) so I don't know what kind of character Mal is, but if he's anything like John, I would probably like him.

I like dark heroes; not depressive dark, but flawed. Perfect heroes are boring, heroes who don't make mistakes and don't feel guilty are worse than fairy tale because even in fairy tale tehre's a better characterization. I honestly don't know what TPTW wanted if they wanted John to be opposite of Mal, or opposite of what he is/was through first three seasons.

I don't think he had a big story arc, it feels more like a "musical theme"; whenever someone is lost you know John will be the one who will take that the hardest. He started out with this weak spot and now it's an open wound because of the loss of Elizabeth. He was desperate enough to rescue her in TRW and risk himself; and after stating that, I think that the only thing what could be considered a John arc has everything to do with Elizabeth. He started out fresh and hopeful in a way, and after he lost her he lost the hope, the eagerness, he lost his spark (pun intended). But all of that wasn't something that has been intentionally written in and I still think JF is the one to credit for any John - continuity we have up to this point.

Mal is/was wonderful. He is deeply flawed, stubborn, cares deeply about his team, closed off in his emotions, snarky...um and a bunch of other stuff. He's the quintessential anti-hero. Much better written than John ever has been. Even in S1, IMHO. So yeah, I'd say it's all JF. He has created John out of cobwebs.

[Eri13]

We love all the same people. lol

Great minds! *high fives* Dean's my laptop wallpaper and Sawyer was my LJ layout when I had one. I follow Nathan Fillion wherever he goes, even onto Wisteria Lane. XD

Ive never watched Firefly (no, seriously!) so I don't know what kind of character Mal is, but if he's anything like John, I would probably like him.

I like dark heroes; not depressive dark, but flawed. Perfect heroes are boring, heroes who don't make mistakes and don't feel guilty are worse than fairy tale because even in fairy tale tehre's a better characterization. I honestly don't know what TPTW wanted if they wanted John to be opposite of Mal, or opposite of what he is/was through first three seasons.

I don't think he had a big story arc, it feels more like a "musical theme"; whenever someone is lost you know John will be the one who will take that the hardest. He started out with this weak spot and now it's an open wound because of the loss of Elizabeth. He was desperate enough to rescue her in TRW and risk himself; and after stating that, I think that the only thing what could be considered a John arc has everything to do with Elizabeth. He started out fresh and hopeful in a way, and after he lost her he lost the hope, the eagerness, he lost his spark (pun intended). But all of that wasn't something that has been intentionally written in and I still think JF is the one to credit for any John - continuity we have up to this point.

You might give Firefly a whirl if you can--it's definitely along the lines of SG, just with a darker, more 'grounded' feel. All the clever knicknacks make it fun to watch (like the fact that Joss Whedon postulated China would eventually overrun the world, so all the cursing they do is in Chinese and much of the fashion is inspired by Chinese culture). You'd definitely appreciate Mal because he's a wonderful character, but the whole cast is marvelous. It's sorta funny to see them now on Stargate or other shows. The biggest one for SGA fans is Jewel Staite, who played Kaylee on Firefly. I'm not opinionated about Keller either way, but Kaylee was my second favorite (after Mal) on Firefly.

[Anuna]

Eri, you need say no more. I'm convinced.

[Pajus]

This is Sunday Fathers: http://anuna-81.livejournal.com/44288.html

All kinds of fluff warnings there.

Read the first 2 chapters. My brain's too fried from thinking about our Teyla story

[Anuna]

Read the first 2 chapters. My brain's too fried from thinking about our Teyla story

Heh and my brain is fried after finishing this new story. I know how you feel.

[Pajus]

Heh and my brain is fried after finishing this new story. I know how you feel.

And the worst part: My brain is on a writing spree nd won't let me sleep unless I get more stories done

[Anuna]

And the worst part: My brain is on a writing spree nd won't let me sleep unless I get more stories done

I felt like that with first seven or eight chapters of TSM. Then I was drained and the whole thing dragged on, but I had to finish it.

[Pajus]

I felt like that with first seven or eight chapters of TSM. Then I was drained and the whole thing dragged on, but I had to finish it.

I know that feeling: I wrote two Razzie dates and calculated the biophysics for 100 ways Sheppard died chapters 'Itchy and Scratchy show' and 'The Atlantis Darwin Award goes to...' today alone