Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Really? I thought it was 3,000?

Last time I checked in regarding such a question, Sky said it was around 2000 but that Darren has the means to change it.

[Scary Kitty]

Maybe they're not illegal in the Pegasus Galaxy. I know they're not in Canada, so maybe the IOA goes by international rules on that one.

True, dat.

Love the Woolsey/John discussion. Can it be Woolard or Shepsey? And JF has called him his "hot new leading lady" so it works.

My vote's on Shepsey! It's got just the right cuteness level!

On Remnants. I have heard a rumor about what happens to John. If you really really don't want to be super spoiled don't click.

Spoiler:

I mean it. You may not want to know this much detail.

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Last chance to turn back.

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Okay, you asked for it.

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Kolya cuts his left hand off with that big machete. Remember it's only an hallucination. This could definitely harken back to Afghanistan.

SWEEEEEEEET!

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Oh, that would be so bad*ss! Yeah, it'd be a hallucination, but that'd still be totally bad*ss and such a Kolya thing to do.

[Scary Kitty]

See...I don't get the whole 'ratings are higher' argument at ALL. Where did this come from? I went and studied the ratings off GW's episode synopses, and S4 ratings were never "higher" than S3. S4 never beats S3. S3's lowest ratings were for their back half run of episodes--which neither S4 nor S5 has beat. The front half of S4 was dismal; the back half was equivalent to the S3 back half--which was the worst the first 3 seasons ever got. S5's first half of episodes is also equivalent to the back half--and better than S4's first half, but that's it. Overall, S4 is lower rated than S3 and S5 is heading that way. Here's the raw breakdown:

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S3: 1st half numbers average: 1.58
S3: 2nd half numbers average: 1.24
S3: Overall numbers: 1.41

S4: 1st half numbers average: 1.05
S4: 2nd half numbers average: 1.24
S4: Overall numbers: 1.14

S5: 1st half numbers average: 1.2

DVR did pad S4 and S5--I think these are straight Nielsen without DVR +7 numbers--but S3 didn't analyze DVR numbers at all, so who's to say that those DVR numbers have helped?

So who made the argument that the ratings were better? The ratings have never been better, unless you're counting S4's 'back half' over S4's front half. S5's front half is better than S4's front half, but none of those seasons surpass Season 3! So, I guess my point is...if they were trying to argue that S4 and 5 are an improvement over S3, where's the evidence? The half of the season they 'panicked' over because it's ratings dropped still did better than the following two seasons!

Exactly! The proof is totally in the pudding! And yet, you've got Mallozzi, Wright and various pro-TPTW fans (I'm not going to bother naming names, but you all know who I'm talking about) claiming that the ratings are better than ever. Even when other people point out those numbers, they still deny that the ratings are actually down. And they're just as much in denial that the big slide started at the same time that we were finding out that TPTW decided to screw with what was making the show work and they were getting rid of Carson and Elizabeth all for the sake of "shaking things up." What a crock of horse dung. They ruined the show when they did that, and the timing on the ratings slide clearly shows this.

As to "Remnants"--I don't think

Spoiler:

we'll get Sheppard's 'feelings' about Elizabeth at all. I'd be super surprised. Though Kolya generally involves Elizabeth, given how she hasn't come up except in her episode, I'm not seeing it happen here.

And

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there's another wrench in the works... Remnants was written by Mallozzi and Mullie. *headdesk*

And now, for those of you interested in Torri's guest role on NCIS...how's this? I submitted a question to Michael Ausiello this week and it got mentioned in his column! *dances* It doesn't mention Torri specifically, but I think it does hint at how she'll be involved...

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Quote:
Question: Will we be getting more background on Ziva's bare-chested mystery man anytime soon on NCIS? Also, I heard a rumor that we'd be getting a good Ducky-centric episode sometime soon -- will we find out anything more about his private life? -- Erika <---Me!

Ausiello: According to exec producer Shane Brennan, yes, we will be getting more info on Ziva's mystery man, and yes, there's big Ducky stuff coming. "Ducky will face the biggest emotional challenge of his life in an upcoming episode," he teases. "And yes, we will take a revealing peek into his private life."

Hmmmm...biggest emotional challenge of his life? I'm guessing either something with his mother--or perhaps engagement/marriage? If it's the latter, it will more than likely involve Torri's character of Dr. Jordan Hampton, since she's the only person he's shown interest in in that area! If it is his Mom, chances are Torri will still be involved in that 'revealing peek into his private life'. Either way it means she'll be involved with Ducky somehow, so YAY!!!

YAY! *does a happy dance*

There's something else I've considered too...

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There's still a mole in NCIS (Agent Lee). Given her past relationship with Palmer, I wonder if something might happen regarding her that will take Palmer out of the picture, in which case... Ducky's going to need a new assistant.

[Scary Kitty]

Last time I checked in regarding such a question, Sky said it was around 2000 but that Darren has the means to change it.

Hmm, guess I'll have to make a GW-size kitty avy then.

[Anuna]

Did someone say 'emotional whump is more interesting'? Then how about

making John see/dream about

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leaving Elizabeth behind. Again and again and again. Leaving people behind for John is worse than death, and every decent SGA fan knows that. The writers obviously don't.

Oh the show was cancelled - gee, I wonder why.

[Ruined_puzzle]

We are biter biter people. I <3 you guys.

[Southern Red]

Well if that happens

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it will be a sure fire way to get people to realize that it's not real. It probably happens towards the end.

Yeah I don't think we'll get an Elizabeth mention, but I'm seriously trying to think what Koyla and John could talk about. They can't have 45 minutes of I hate you's/. Mmm okay so let's say Woosley gets half the episode and John get's the other half that is still 20 minutes of I hate you. The rest of the 5 minutes will be given to Ronon, Teyla and Rodney. So once again does Koyla just physically scar him cause that is BS. Emotional whump is so much better.

ETA: Ack, I know a lot of you are for Ronon/Teyla too, don't let them dieeeee..... before they have a chance to go up against the big ships. LOL

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...=59822&page=20

Remnants.

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Evidently there are 3 stories, John/Kolya, Woolsey, and Rodney/Zelenka involving some sort of discovery on Atlantis. So John will get a scant third of the time. Since they already showed his guilt about Ford in S5, I'm thinking it will come up again here. There may be slight mention of Elizabeth but considering the writers it won't be much.

Did someone say 'emotional whump is more interesting'? Then how about

making John see/dream about

Spoiler:

leaving Elizabeth behind. Again and again and again. Leaving people behind for John is worse than death, and every decent SGA fan knows that. The writers obviously don't.

Oh the show was cancelled - gee, I wonder why.

JM seems to love the whumpers, so I'm thinking in Remnants

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he will cater to them. Any emotional whump will be all JF's interpretation.

[Ruined_puzzle]

Remnants.

Spoiler:

Evidently there are 3 stories, John/Kolya, Woolsey, and Rodney/Zelenka involving some sort of discovery on Atlantis. So John will get a scant third of the time. Since they already showed his guilt about Ford in S5, I'm thinking it will come up again here. There may be slight mention of Elizabeth but considering the writers it won't be much.

Spoiler:

See it really makes no sense for Koyla to mention Ford, that happened 4 years ago. I don't know, I get that it's really John but it still doesn't make sense to me. Whatever, this would have been a perfect opportunity to show how much John is affected by Elizabeth's loss even if he doesn't show it. I mean it's in John's mind so it's not like they have to commit to anything. I'll just pretend it happened while they were focusing on the other two stories.

On the bolded part, that just makes it worse because it looks like John doesn't care. Oh hey they mention Elizabeth but they don't go deeper into it. WTF. They might as well not even bother.

JM seems to love the whumpers, so I'm thinking in Remnants

Spoiler:

he will cater to them. Any emotional whump will be all JF's interpretation.

JF facial expression = <3.

[Eri13]

Exactly! The proof is totally in the pudding! And yet, you've got Mallozzi, Wright and various pro-TPTW fans (I'm not going to bother naming names, but you all know who I'm talking about) claiming that the ratings are better than ever. Even when other people point out those numbers, they still deny that the ratings are actually down. And they're just as much in denial that the big slide started at the same time that we were finding out that TPTW decided to screw with what was making the show work and they were getting rid of Carson and Elizabeth all for the sake of "shaking things up." What a crock of horse dung. They ruined the show when they did that, and the timing on the ratings slide clearly shows this.

Y'know, if I were more ambitious I'd actually go back and take a look and do a side-by-side comparison of when the news came out about Paul & Torri, and then what else was going on during the season. I left CSI when I found out they were putting Grissom and Sara together--which they didn't do until the end of the season, but I dropped the show 4 months before that. I wasn't interested anymore on where the story was going, so I don't wonder if that's what happened, too.

In fact, I just dropped Smallville for good after the last week. The TPTB came out and have all but destroyed my favorite character. I was no longer interested.

And

Spoiler:

there's another wrench in the works... Remnants was written by Mallozzi and Mullie. *headdesk*

Yep...uh huh. No mention. Not at all.

There's something else I've considered too...

Spoiler:

There's still a mole in NCIS (Agent Lee). Given her past relationship with Palmer, I wonder if something might happen regarding her that will take Palmer out of the picture, in which case... Ducky's going to need a new assistant.

Spoiler:

Ooooooooooooooo...that would be cold. If they went that way, I'd probably say they were going to have him kill her, not the other way around, just because that'd be the kind of elegant twist NCIS likes. Plus, I'm sure CBS would be waving the 'someone on the team dies again' flag by now if they were going to kill him off. But who knows?

Replacing Palmer would require a semi-large committment from Torri...I wonder if she'd go for it? I always thought it might be interesting if Jethro got interested in her--having her be the assist/co-ME and then Ducky interested AND Jethro interested--YUM! But...I'm not banking on it. I don't want to get my hopes up that she'll be recurring to that extent.

However...I would be perfectly fine if Ducky was dating her (and possibly interested in marriage). What would make the marriage part interesting is how anti-marriage Jethro is and what that would mean for their friendship; how long it's taken Ducky to find someone he wants to marry; what he'd do about his mother; and that Jordan is still young enough to have kids. If that was the way it was going, Torri could be popping up here and there for the rest of the show. I wouldn't mind that.

[Anuna]

I'm going to commit some heavy emotional whump now. *writing*

[Southern Red]

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See it really makes no sense for Koyla to mention Ford, that happened 4 years ago. I don't know, I get that it's really John but it still doesn't make sense to me. Whatever, this would have been a perfect opportunity to show how much John is affected by Elizabeth's loss even if he doesn't show it. I mean it's in John's mind so it's not like they have to commit to anything. I'll just pretend it happened while they were focusing on the other two stories.

On the bolded part, that just makes it worse because it looks like John doesn't care. Oh hey they mention Elizabeth but they don't go deeper into it. WTF. They might as well not even bother.

JF facial expression = <3.

You're right on Remnants.

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I doubt Kolya even remembers Ford or knows what happened to him, but whatever he does to John may conjure him up. Remember it's all in John's mind anyway. Logically it would be Elizabeth, but what does logic have to do with M&M?

[Reiko]

How long before the end? I want this show over yesterday.

I thought it was over two years ago?

Y'know, if I were more ambitious I'd actually go back and take a look and do a side-by-side comparison of when the news came out about Paul & Torri, and then what else was going on during the season.

For one, SG1 was cancelled and I think that may be a large contributing factor. And we still don't know all the facts yet because I haven't found any concrete answers from anyone.

I still haven't seen the whole of Sunday or FS. For one I don't want to see Carson getting devoured by flames. I don't like seeing people's faces when they get blown up especially with the crappy SFX. (Lizzie didn't get completely toasted, so I suppose it's a bit different though still unnerving) and the only ways I go to those episodes is to rip clips.

[Anuna]

You're right on Remnants.

Spoiler:

I doubt Kolya even remembers Ford or knows what happened to him, but whatever he does to John may conjure him up. Remember it's all in John's mind anyway. Logically it would be Elizabeth, but what does logic have to do with M&M?

Why don't we come up with our own stories that would make sense? M&M have broken so many basic principles of human nature and psychology. They know squat about it.

Watched SG - 1's "Morpheus" the other day. Episode was written by M&M, and it features Vala going to a shrink. Of course the shrink is half dumb and uses two of the most unreliable testing methods out there, polygraph and ink test (Rorschach test). During the complete 'screening', the Woolsey ploy was the best test for Vala, but totally transparent and predictable. At the end Vala was told that doctor so and so thinks she has a great potential. Showed exactly where? Half of the time she was trying to lie to that guy and if I had been testing her, and I do that almost every day, I doubt she would be a part of SGC teams. I'd fail her, seriously. So much for M&M and their knowledge of how human mind works.

I guess we can count on JF for decent interpretation of John and our own writing abilities.

[Reiko]

Why don't we come up with our own stories that would make sense? M&M have broken so many basic principles of human nature and psychology. They know squat about it.

The worst part of it. I guess they figure other people are superior to Lizzie and Carson anyways, and they don't care, the characters evidently do not care and so we shouldn't care either because they say so.

What? That's really the attitude I got from them in S4. "Wait and see. You will love her. We are moving into a new era. We are being risky and dark. We want to mess with the formula. I know you liked them, but yadda yadda, you'll like it more now."

Carter and Keller proved to be the ultimate remedy to get over the loss of their friends. Yay.

[Anuna]

The worst part of it. I guess they figure other people are superior to Lizzie and Carson anyways, and they don't care, the characters evidently do not care and so we shouldn't care either because they say so.

What? That's really the attitude I got from them in S4. "Wait and see. You will love her. We are moving into a new era. We are being risky and dark. We want to mess with the formula. I know you liked them, but yadda yadda, you'll like it more now."

Carter and Keller proved to be the ultimate remedy to get over the loss of their friends. Yay.

Yes, and who ever heard about survivors guilt and not accepting the new people just like that? Who ever heard about grief and sadness and loss? Who'd want to watch that when we can have pretty explosions and hot new characters anyway?

Well, not me, obviously.

I think we need John - stories, any season, focused on how he deals with loss.