Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

25 years?? So what, Athosians get married and have kids when they're 15 or 16? That must mean that all their first families and kids get killed, because from what we've seen in the show there were no young parents with young children. The parents we have seen all looked in their late 20s, early/mid 30s with kids that were barely older than 10...
And where does she get her information that Kanaan and Teyla were married to other people and had kids at one point? Because as far as I know nothing in canon gives the slightest hint to that. You'd think Teyla would mention her killed children and the husband she loved and lost at least once in the five years we've seen her live her life in Atlantis.
But I'm just glad she didn't use the polyamorous word *headdesk*



Yup, plothole much?

She made it all up. After indepth research and application of the principles of sociology, anthropology and psychology, she came to the conclusion that the Athosian society was structured thusly. What? It's a twisted form of deductive reasoning. You have a general theory that you assume is true. You apply it to a certain case and come up with specific examples to back it up. It's also called circular reasoning. It might go something like this.

Because they live in tents, the Athosians must be nomads. Nomads come across all sorts of other peoples and welcome them into their culture. The Athosians welcome other peoples into their culture and intermarry with them.

And if you keep going, you eventually get a headache explain how they are polyamorous. *g*

[Falcon Horus]

Pffffft is all I have to say. She is pushing it way too far, with one sole agenda, to dininish the importance of Kanaan and thus point out who Teyla's twoooo wuv is. And about that, I'd ask what happened to five years of solid decisions, responsibilities and leader - teammate relationship. IMO, her logic is faulty. maybe Teyla wanted to be the leader and thus decided not to have a family? That would make a damn fine parallel between Elizabeth and her, since obviously both have given up on personal life in order to pursue higher goals. And perhaps Kanaan was one of the people who supported Teyla's decision.

That's pretty much how my background of this is constructed, that being pushed into the leadership role pretty much placed Teyla in a position where she couldn't afford the distraction of a family. That she chose solitude in order to be a better leader maybe. Kanaan would have been there too, maybe she would even have bounced issues off of him.

Heck, why don't I just write a fic myself?

LOL! True...

And where does she get her information that Kanaan and Teyla were married to other people and had kids at one point? Because as far as I know nothing in canon gives the slightest hint to that.

You are correct - that's all her doing. With the lack of "evidence" to contradict the opposite she made up her own backstory for Kanaan, and partially for Teyla.

But I'm just glad she didn't use the polyamorous word *headdesk*

It makes me giggle.

[KrisRussel]

Nothing has changed. Our beloved JG sounds like a politician. Not a particularly good one, though. Also, Falcon pointed out one thing that's obviously not fitting that same canon she is swearing at so often, so the best thing to do is avoid the issue alltogether. Right?

Right!!
Although venting about it now and then is fun

Well, I'm wondering why nobody in fandom is raising the question of underage marriages JG's posts and logic are obviously implying. Yes, i know high mortality rate and all that, but come on. Also, hadn't Teyla said that there weren't any Wraith attacks since... five generations or so? then there is nor eal need to procreate at the speed of lightening.

Five generations since a massive attack. Small attacks still happen now and then. But that wouldn't explain why entire families would get taken...

And if you keep going, you eventually get a headache explain how they are polyamorous. *g*

Yup, all the *headdesking* will give you a headdache

[Anuna]

That's pretty much how my background of this is constructed, that being pushed into the leadership role pretty much placed Teyla in a position where she couldn't afford the distraction of a family. That she chose solitude in order to be a better leader maybe. Kanaan would have been there too, maybe she would even have bounced issues off of him.

And when you put it like that, you can find very strong and clear parallels between Teyla/Kanaan and Elizabeth/John, because Teyla did precisely the same thing Elizabeth did, she put her head above her heart so to speak. And both men are there, being supportive and friends, but romantic developments aren't possible until something changes. In Teyla's case, after losing two close friends, she could have realized that she has just one life and all the precious people she loves and cares about will be gone some day. And that it can happen any day. And there is a logical and plausible explanation on why she decided to hook up with Kanaan.

[Probie]

Wow. I'm more and more impressed by JG.
I tried to find the logic in her reply but I can't so I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one.
I don't know where she found all those ideas but it's......very strange and scary sometimes. Maybe we can send her SGA dvds and some notes about each episode.lolBut well, she's not very impartial and wants to write her ideas. Not a surprise but where are the others writers? They are all agree with those ideas and the fact to completely change (I don't want to say "ruin") the 'canon" story?

[Southern Red]

And when you put it like that, you can find very strong and clear parallels between Teyla/Kanaan and Elizabeth/John, because Teyla did precisely the same thing Elizabeth did, she put her head above her heart so to speak. And both men are there, being supportive and friends, but romantic developments aren't possible until something changes. In Teyla's case, after losing two close friends, she could have realized that she has just one life and all the precious people she loves and cares about will be gone some day. And that it can happen any day. And there is a logical and plausible explanation on why she decided to hook up with Kanaan.

If I recall correctly, JM also explained that by alluding to the fact that she may have had a crush on John at one time, but later realized that Kanaan was her one true love. But what does he know, he's only the man who wrote the canon in the first place.

And in addition, I was always bothered by this "crush" idea. Good grief. Is this middle school? But I'm even more bothered now if we are to believe that she has had a husband and a child before. I can't believe that the Teyla who threw Michael off that building is so passive that she waits around for years for John to make a move and doesn't know how to let him know she is interested. If these people are polyamorous, they're not very good at it. No wonder they are such a small society.

Wow. I'm more and more impressed by JG.
I tried to find the logic in her reply but I can't so I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one.
I don't know where she found all those ideas but it's......very strange and scary sometimes. Maybe we can send her SGA dvds and some notes about each episode.lolBut well, she's not very impartial and wants to write her ideas. Not a surprise but where are the others writers? They are all agree with those ideas and the fact to completely change (I don't want to say "ruin") the 'canon" story?

She implies that they all agree but she's just the only one with a blog. LOL Maybe she'll notice our questions and come on here to reassure us that what's left of the show we loved won't be totally destroyed. *waits*

[Falcon Horus]

And when you put it like that, you can find very strong and clear parallels between Teyla/Kanaan and Elizabeth/John, because Teyla did precisely the same thing Elizabeth did, she put her head above her heart so to speak. And both men are there, being supportive and friends, but romantic developments aren't possible until something changes. In Teyla's case, after losing two close friends, she could have realized that she has just one life and all the precious people she loves and cares about will be gone some day. And that it can happen any day. And there is a logical and plausible explanation on why she decided to hook up with Kanaan.

Yup, plausible... didn't Elizabeth once tell Teyla she understood her in a way, or viceversa. In either Suspicion, or was it the last one of season 3.

[Anuna]

LOL, exactly - what would JM know about anything? He isn't my favorite person in the world - far from it - but at least he didn't write Teyla as a bed hopper, and I'm glad for that.

And since we're talking about adult people here, I'm actually glad JM used the word crush to define the nature of attraction Teyla felt for John. A crush in high school is something very serious, but among adults it implies a certain liking, affection.... but I assume nothing deeper. The crush dissolved into cameradrie and friendship. I liked that.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Regarding what dreams may come: will we see specific moments like John will have his own little moment with Elizabeth when she's having her breakdown? Rodney having his own moment with Elizabeth and so on and son on? Or will most of the interaction just be between John and elizabeth?

[Eri13]

Wow. I'm utterly mind-boggled. And you guys know how much I love and respect canon, so frankly all of this is rather sickening. I made the decision a while ago not to look at anything this author is saying or doing, but just based on the stuff I hear third person I don't know how the gen fans aren't up in arms about any of this.

In any case, she's wrong. It's established in canon that this is Teyla's first. From a hallmark Sheyla episode, Spoils of War:

LORNE: Listen, I never got a chance to congratulate you. It's really great. I didn't even know you were dating anyone.

(They smile at each other.)

LORNE: My sister has a couple of kids. Two boys: five and seven. I miss being around them.

TEYLA: I'm not really sure *what* to expect.

LORNE: Nobody ever is – at least not with the first one. But you get through it.

(Teyla nods.)

LORNE: Ah, you're gonna make a *great* mom.

(She looks at him gratefully.)

TEYLA: Thank you. I wish *I* could be so sure.

So, whatever. It's not worth wasting your breath on. She's going to push her agenda irregardless of canon, and the most I can do is just not buy her books. She does lose my respect for her as an author, though, who's been given a great chance to forward a fun story and she's elected to make mincemeat of that.

[Southern Red]

LOL, exactly - what would JM know about anything? He isn't my favorite person in the world - far from it - but at least he didn't write Teyla as a bed hopper, and I'm glad for that.

And since we're talking about adult people here, I'm actually glad JM used the word crush to define the nature of attraction Teyla felt for John. A crush in high school is something very serious, but among adults it implies a certain liking, affection.... but I assume nothing deeper. The crush dissolved into cameradrie and friendship. I liked that.

And sad that we never got to see much of that friendship. We'll make up for it in our SS6 though and write them like they should be.

Wow. I'm utterly mind-boggled. And you guys know how much I love and respect canon, so frankly all of this is rather sickening. I made the decision a while ago not to look at anything this author is saying or doing, but just based on the stuff I hear third person I don't know how the gen fans aren't up in arms about any of this.

In any case, she's wrong. It's established in canon that this is Teyla's first. From a hallmark Sheyla episode, Spoils of War:



So, whatever. It's not worth wasting your breath on. She's going to push her agenda irregardless of canon, and the most I can do is just not buy her books. She does lose my respect for her as an author, though, who's been given a great chance to forward a fun story and she's elected to make mincemeat of that.

I'm glad you found that. I wonder if anybody is brave enough to go tell her. *looks around for FH*

It's just obvious that the ship agenda is the whole thing and if some of us hadn't done a bit of research we'd never know exactly what is going on. So I doubt the general fans know more than that there will be books and they are set right after EatG. She very carefully reveals tidbits that gen fans might like but leaves out any reference to ship. All that has been discussed either in subtext on her blog or in other places.

I believe even MGM is not aware of her fanfic involvement or to what extent she is writing for just a small segment of fandom.

[Falcon Horus]

Damn, I would have included this if I had remembered... cause that would have poked holes in her reply. And her view on canon...

[KrisRussel]

question: I'm working on the download section of the website (wallpapers, banners, icons and sorts). How can we do this without including Elizabeth?
Like I said: I agree about keeping Elizabeth's return quiet for as long as possible, but then what about all the artwork? What about the banners you guys use on this forum?

[KrisRussel]

Damn, I would have included this if I had remembered... cause that would have poked holes in her reply. And her view on canon...

You can reply that to her now. Something along the lines of: Oh, I suddenly remembered this conversation between Lorne and Teyla about Teyla becoming a mom. Or something like that...

[Southern Red]

question: I'm working on the download section of the website (wallpapers, banners, icons and sorts). How can we do this without including Elizabeth?
Like I said: I agree about keeping Elizabeth's return quiet for as long as possible, but then what about all the artwork? What about the banners you guys use on this forum?

I'm just not sure it's going to be possible to keep it a secret or even if we want to. But we can leave her pic off the artwork up to her first episode, if that's possible. How can anybody who knows it's us doing it think we'd leave her out? LOL I think the cat is pretty much out of the bag already because of the banners, etc that have appeared on this site and the comm.