Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[gateraid]

Exactly, it would have been much less annoying if it had been resolved and taken a place in the background. Now I had to look up that deleted scene and *lol* He can't even say it without difficulty! Confirm that, uhm, Carter was having an aff... I mean, uhm, in a relationship with O'Neill *blush* Hilarious!

Either way would've been preferable - they got together and kept it quiet, or they decided not to get together at all and both moved on years ago. But to mention it in SGA was a bit out of left field, especially if you'd never watched SG-1. They could've been talking about Hammond (McBarr's suggestion, not mine), given that if they'd actually left it in without commenting, no name was mentioned. Heck, if they'd left that scene from BAMSR with Caldwell in, it could've been him. That creeped me out.

It wasn't the ship that annoyed me, just the stringing it out. Why deliberately put all of the references in if they're not going to do anything with it. They'd have been screwed if TLC was actually a movie, in the script there was a kiss (but given that it was included as part of the series, the kiss, and some other things, were cut)

[gateraid]

Geez, I forgot. Woosley is a male. Thatd efinitely makes him tougher. Riiiight. No offense, gateraid, since this isn't directed at you. But to PTB, military obviously trumps civilian, no matter how badass that civilian can be (Siege 2 anyone? Elizabeth singlehandedly talked the Genii into lending them their bombs, while being blindfolded and tied to a chair and Torri played THAT scene so well it still gives me chills). I don't remember any other female character on Stargate, save the Goa'ulds with their hand weapons, being so badass.

No offense taken. It's true, at least in TPTW's mind. The Seige II is made of AWESOME. Not only did they prove why they needed a civilian, they proved why it had to be Weir (although the image of Weir coming back through the gate with a bundle of nukes is somewhat troubling).

Martin Wood is singing her praises during the blindfold scene. I'm lost for words now, praise the lord there is a language filter here

As for comic relief, that is really a cheap excuse. Torri could have played it ALL. Frakers.

ITA

Now, on a happier note my evil fic is almost done and here is a song that reminds me of sparky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FseuxxcTlvA

I've been downloading songs onto my new ipod, but I had to include this

Edited to add:

It's heavily loaded towards Metallica, ACDC, Airborne, System of a Down, Foofighters, INXS...only a few sappy songs

[KrisRussel]

* they wanted Carter there, the most logical place (in their minds) was in command. Having her play second fiddle to Weir was not one of their goals

That is exactly what Joe said at Fedcon: "They wanted Carter in Atlantis and as far as tptb were concerned, they couldn't have the two character there at the same time."
He also sounded annoyed when he said that and David was nodding the entire time in agreement.

* Torri probably got sick of getting scripts where Weir wasn't doing a lot (again, ironic, considering some of the amazing s3 eps) and was saying this to TPTW

* TPTW probably got sick of having Torri banging on the door

Actually, I don't think that is one of the reason as Torri always said that she didn't feel it was her "right" to meddle with the scripts as she wasn't one of the writers.

Heck, I'm only involved with fandom insofar as Sparky fandom. My rage fuels me to prove TPTW's decision was stinking dead wrong.

Yup true. Same here. And the only reason I'm watching SGU is because of David Blue. If he hadn't talked to me at Chevron last year, I would have never given it a second chance.

And yes, why couldn't they have simply moved Elizabeth to another position on Atlantis? Oh wait, that would've required them to keep Torri on the cast.

The thing is, if the IOA and the SGC had decided to downgrade Elizabeth's position to just diplomat and put Carter in charge, do you really think Elizabeth would have gone for that? I think she would have just said: "frak this" and walked away from Atlantis. Of course then we could have had some nice Sparky scenes with John trying to convince her to stay or John trying to convince her to return ;^)
*sees plotbunny running around*

We just crossed 97,000 posts! Way to go, Sparkies! Let's keep it up!

Yay!!!!! Sparky party!!!!!!!!!!

The funny thing is I used to be a Sam fan in early SG1 seasons. I also used to be a big Sam/Jack shipper. They screwed up Sam in the later seasons and messed up Sam/Jack by endless non-delivery, even though they had long passed the point of no return.

Oooh, don't get me started on Sam/Jack!!! *headdesk*

They didn't want to have Weir as Atlantis leader anymore? Fine, use Adrift/Lifeline as a way to change things. I actually liked those episodes, and after leaving Weir on the Replicator planet there were hundreds of solutions to get her back and reasons to change her position when back to Atlantis.

See, that would have been one of the solutions. Easy really... just too bad tptw couldn't see beyond their own incompetence.
Elizabeth wouldn't have been pissed at the IOA and SGC for replacing her because she was MIA, and if they did get her back, the active nanites in her body wouldn't have allowed her to retake the command position and she could have stayed in Atlantis as diplomat and language expert.

It's funny, I always thought Weir had the capacity to be 'colder' than either Woolsey or Carter, and made some tougher moral decisions. And yet at the same time, could also have a lot more compassion. That's called depth people

Depth? I don't think tptw ever heard of that word...

[Southern Red]

From the season 4 companion book:
"For various reasons, the production found it necessary to write out the character of Dr Elizabeth Weir, played by Torri Higginson. The decision had actually been made at the conclusion of season three. The writers had always found weir a difficult character to intergrate into the Atlantis enviroment, with all its inherent jeopardy- as a civilian diplomat with no military backround, Weir's function as part of the Pegasus Project was difficult to flesh out.Finding reasons to take her offworld and into the heart of the story could easily feel contrived. Yet having her be the character that stayed in the city watching the teams come and go did not make for a fullfilling role, either for the writers or Higgenson. Eventually the producers felt the only solution was to replace the character. "

And now I'm even more glad I didn't buy that one.

Oh don't apologize - it's not you. It's just....it's been three years, and I'm still not dealing well with how they treated Elizabeth. It's why I'm only peripherally involved in the fandom these days.

Gateraid,very good points about the reasons for them kicking Torri out. In fact, I agree with your entire post

I agree with all your ideas. You had a great discussion while I was sleeping and I don't have a thing to add that's new.

I remember that ComicCon video when Torri talked about not wanting to go up and make waves and Joe spoke right up and said he didn't mind and mimicked knocking on the door. I think that was the same day when he kissed her. Maybe she just knew they wouldn't listen. The most irritating part to me is how in all the early commentaries and interviews they just praise her to the high heavens and then suddenly her character was impossible to write so they just dropped her.

Now, according to Joe and David, they just wanted AT and threw Torri out like yesterday's newspaper. No offense to Amanda, I love her and I love Sam and the way she screwed them in the end makes me very happy.

Now it's party time:

Spoiler:

97,000 posts!

[Falcon Horus]

do you remember the name of the fic?

I'm sorry, I don't.

****

On the topic of Sam/Jack - if ever they solidify this ship *shivers at the thought* ... I will immediately sell every SG1 DVD (and I own all 10 seasons) and every bit of merchandise I have, and I never ever want to watch, listen to, read or own anything SG1 related. I absolutely hate the thought of that ship existing with an incredible vengeance.

Give me Daniel/Janet any day of the week - at least that isn't made of so much unbelievable fail.

[Probie]

On the topic of Sam/Jack - if ever they solidify this ship *shivers at the thought* ... I will immediately sell every SG1 DVD (and I own all 10 seasons) and every bit of merchandise I have, and I never ever want to watch, listen to, read or own anything SG1 related. I absolutely hate the thought of that ship existing with an incredible vengeance.

Give me Daniel/Janet any day of the week - at least that isn't made of so much unbelievable fail.

I agree with you. I don't like this ship. I think it's because I have a problem with Carter.lol
I'm scared when TPTB say "romantic relationship" and "Stargate" in the same sentence.

[Southern Red]

I agree with you. I don't like this ship. I think it's because I have a problem with Carter.lol
I'm scared when TPTB say "romantic relationship" and "Stargate" in the same sentence.

Me too. *shudders* And even when they claim they are writing a ship, it turns out badly. In fact when they push a ship, it turns out worse. Thank God they ignored Sparky.

[VampyreWraith]

I'm sorry, I don't.

****

On the topic of Sam/Jack - if ever they solidify this ship *shivers at the thought* ... I will immediately sell every SG1 DVD (and I own all 10 seasons) and every bit of merchandise I have, and I never ever want to watch, listen to, read or own anything SG1 related. I absolutely hate the thought of that ship existing with an incredible vengeance.

Give me Daniel/Janet any day of the week - at least that isn't made of so much unbelievable fail.

Daniel/Janet wouldve been cute. As for Sam/Jack, i didnt want to see those characters get together on screen, though i woundnt have minded a mention in season 9 or 10 after rda left. I really don't like seeing serious romance/sex scenes between main characters on screen on a sci-fi show. i'd rather it be implied or just left for fan- fiction. Thats just what i like.

[pkprd869]

I agree with lots of stuff said about Miss Torri getting (unjustly) canned. Here's a list, in random order, of how Sam and Lizzie would've been a lead into good stuff:

1.) Weir/Carter would've been great to see and a blast to write. Not just military vs. civilian aspect, but the "I just took your job and know you gotta deal" would've made scenes very interesting.

2.) Sending Lizzie off world contrived... not anymore! e.g. Dr. Weir go with Sheppard's team and help negotiate (blah blah) or translate (something or other). Eye sex, tongue porn, guns and explosions, and general good times had by all.

3.) Sheppard/Weir comic relief would've been great. Just think the Carey Grant/ Katherine Hepburn "voodoo" conversation type stuff. (a la Either or either way...)

4.) Even some Lizzie/Teyla bonding would've been nice to see since Lizzie isn't Teyla boss. Maybe they could paint their nails... or something.

5.) How about Lizzie giving "Kirkette" of the week the evil eye and Shep trying not to beat up all the boys that come sniffing?

6.) Never got to see much Lizzie/Ronon scenes. Seeing them together outside of boss/subordinate would've been cool.

[Fionnait]

I agree with lots of stuff said about Miss Torri getting (unjustly) canned. Here's a list, in random order, of how Sam and Lizzie would've been good stuff:

1.) Weir/Carter would've been great to see and a blast to write. Not just military vs. civilian aspect, but the "I just took your job and know you gotta deal" would've made scenes very interesting.

I don't recall them as antagonistic on SG1... so they might have gotten along, after all. And Elizabeth is grown-up, I think she could handle not being the expedition leader if the reason was the she had nanites. She even may agree as a precaution (she was against what Rodney had done!). And since she is also a linguist, I can see her embracing and sinking herself into this kind of job. I know most people will think otherwise, but I don't see her making a big drama out of it...

[VampyreWraith]

I don't recall them as antagonistic on SG1... so they might have gotten along, after all. And Elizabeth is grown-up, I think she could handle not being the expedition leader if the reason was the she had nanites. She even may agree as a precaution (she was against what Rodney had done!). And since she is also a linguist, I can see her embracing and sinking herself into this kind of job. I know most people will think otherwise, but I don't see her making a big drama out of it...

i might see her as being a little dissapointed at losing her position and adjusting to not being the boss but i dont see her as being antagonistic towards Sam either. And i agree with what u posted.

And even if they didnt want to keep elizabeth as part of the main cast, they couldve made her recurring like lorne and zelenka. 3 eps and 1 scene does not = recurring or exciting new character arc /direction

[Probie]

I agree with lots of stuff said about Miss Torri getting (unjustly) canned. Here's a list, in random order, of how Sam and Lizzie would've been a lead into good stuff:

1.) Weir/Carter would've been great to see and a blast to write. Not just military vs. civilian aspect, but the "I just took your job and know you gotta deal" would've made scenes very interesting.

.

Too complicate for them. They can't write good story with women and they have to put Rodney on the side.

[Fionnait]

Too complicate for them. They can't write good story with women and they have to put Rodney on the side.

This is like Jane Austen *g* In her novels you never see males alone together, because she would have had no idea what they would be up to *lol*
How about hiring a female writer for that? FAIL!

[Probie]

OT Eri

Spoiler:

He won again. Can I say I hate it? I have nothing against Nadal but it's annoying to see always the same winner each year. This man is so strong.

[VampyreWraith]

No offense taken. It's true, at least in TPTW's mind. The Seige II is made of AWESOME. Not only did they prove why they needed a civilian, they proved why it had to be Weir (although the image of Weir coming back through the gate with a bundle of nukes is somewhat troubling).

Martin Wood is singing her praises during the blindfold scene. I'm lost for words now, praise the lord there is a language filter here



ITA



I've been downloading songs onto my new ipod, but I had to include this

Edited to add:

It's heavily loaded towards Metallica, ACDC, Airborne, System of a Down, Foofighters, INXS...only a few sappy songs

Weir was great in seige II

I pretty much have everything from system of a down to enya on my ipod. I even have some classical music.
Most of it is some form of rock though.