Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[KrisRussel]

Spoiler:

Pfui!! I hate pop-music on Sci-fi. I can't help it, it always sounds stupid. I'll make an exception for the use of All Along The Watchtower on BSG.

Ooh, BSG!!

Spoiler:

All Along the Watchtower just FIT, perfectly!! It gave me goosebumps and didn't feel wrong like the pop music in SGU does. BSG knows when to use good music and doesn't overdo it.

I'm not fan of either, especially not suicide.

I'm not a fan either. I've had some negative experiences with that too, and I also don't get what could drive someone (especially someone with a family and children) to commit suicide and drag their family through the pain it brings.

[nephtys59]

I believe that the "do not leave behind" mantra comes from John's early military life, probably from one of his comrades in Afghanistan or from one of his superiors. Maybe it's just John who -in a critical situation- has been saved by someone who told him "we do not leave our people behind".
As to his mother, I agree about a illness instead of an accident or similar, but I would avoid cancer (overused).
I agree with a progressive invalidating disease, something that his father didn't know how to handle and, because of that, caused his father to be distant from her mother and John to be resentful towards his father.
This makes sense, IMHO.

[VampyreWraith]

I'm not a fan either. I've had some negative experiences with that too, and I also don't get what could drive someone (especially someone with a family and children) to commit suicide and drag their family through the pain it brings.

i dont really want to get into suicide much but more than just personal issues are involved its also a chemical thing. And i dont think most people who commit/attempt suicide really want to die , they just dont want to live. anyway lol

[nephtys59]

i dont really want to get into suicide much but more than just personal issues are involved its also a chemical thing. And i dont think most people who commit/attempt suicide really want to die , they just dont want to live. anyway lol

I see suicide as a form of cowardice and I can't imagine John being a coward, maybe reckless but definitely not a coward.

[KrisRussel]

I see suicide as a form of cowardice and I can't imagine John being a coward, maybe reckless but definitely not a coward.

See, that's how I see it too... a couple of years ago, an airline company went bankrupt in Belgium. And after a couple of weeks of being unemployed, one of the pilots decided to commit suicide. And he left behind his wife with six children. I'm sorry, but if you do that, you're a coward. Plain and simple.
When I was sixteen I lost my best friend, my soul mate, due to a drunk driver... I was on the verge of committing suicide because I had never felt so alone in my life, but I knew he'd never forgive me if I actually did go through with it. So instead I started living my life like never before and I haven't regretted a single moment of it. I still miss him daily (even after 13 years), but due to my own experience, I really do think that people who commit suicide are cowards who'd rather die than live and I don't have a single bit of respect for them.

[nephtys59]

Sorry to distract you all for a moment, but I found in an old fic these words, describing Elizabeth and Teyla:

Teyla sipped her tea with her left hand. Fingers cradle the mug rather than grip it. Elizabeth knew that the movement – much like all of Teyla's other physical activity – was carefully calculated. A cradled cup was easier to throw. It saved precious seconds otherwise lost when untightening fingers.
Everything about Teyla was directed. Focused. Her life was fighting and movement, much like Elizabeth's life was stillness and words.
They made odd tea buddies, but it worked. They had an understanding.

I think this is really fitting. I like it.

[Anuna]

I see suicide as a form of cowardice and I can't imagine John being a coward, maybe reckless but definitely not a coward.

Then how about sicide as an act opf despair? I'm not talking about John, but there is also that option. Seeing suicide as an act of cowardice sounds a lot like the official stand of Roman Catholic Church. Psychiatry doesn't agree.

Along those lines, psychiatry also defines varous ways of self neglect, including alcoholism for example, as prone suicidal. In conclusion, it's not simple, it's not black and white, and I rather wouldn't touch it in fic.

[VampyreWraith]

I see suicide as a form of cowardice and I can't imagine John being a coward, maybe reckless but definitely not a coward.

And i dont see john as ever wanting to commit suicide either, i dont see it as part of his character no matter what happens. I see him as being depressed as in sad, but not depressed as in suicidal. I was just saying that i can understand y someone might want to commit suicide, suicide is not a rational act so when someone is in that state they are not really themselves/thinking clearly. I don't think others should judge something/someone when they havent been there or cant relate.

[Anuna]

See, that's how I see it too... a couple of years ago, an airline company went bankrupt in Belgium. And after a couple of weeks of being unemployed, one of the pilots decided to commit suicide. And he left behind his wife with six children. I'm sorry, but if you do that, you're a coward. Plain and simple.
When I was sixteen I lost my best friend, my soul mate, due to a drunk driver... I was on the verge of committing suicide because I had never felt so alone in my life, but I knew he'd never forgive me if I actually did go through with it. So instead I started living my life like never before and I haven't regretted a single moment of it. I still miss him daily (even after 13 years), but due to my own experience, I really do think that people who commit suicide are cowards who'd rather die than live and I don't have a single bit of respect for them.

And people with clinical depression who commit suicide must be cowards too, then? And haven't you considered that people don't have the same capacity to deal with loss and grief? Some simply can't overcome it, because they're broken beyond repair. Respect them or don't, the issue isn't that simple.

[VampyreWraith]

Then how about sicide as an act opf despair? I'm not talking about John, but there is also that option. Seeing suicide as an act of cowardice sounds a lot like the official stand of Roman Catholic Church. Psychiatry doesn't agree.

Along those lines, psychiatry also defines varous ways of self neglect, including alcoholism for example, as prone suicidal. In conclusion, it's not simple, it's not black and white, and I rather wouldn't touch it in fic.

Agree with what you just said

[VampyreWraith]

And people with clinical depression who commit suicide must be cowards too, then? And haven't you considered that people don't have the same capacity to deal with loss and grief? Some simply can't overcome it, because they're broken beyond repair. Respect them or don't, the issue isn't that simple.

Again totally agree

Let me add that i was officially diagnosed with depression when i was 18, im almost 30 now. a few yrs ago i was rediagnosed with bipolar disorder, i also have social phobia and social anxiety disorder. i know what its like to have a psychological disorder, and really dont like it when people who dont understand use words like stupid and coward or whatever. now im getting depressed lol

[KrisRussel]

Sorry to distract you all for a moment, but I found in an old fic these words, describing Elizabeth and Teyla:

I think this is really fitting. I like it.

You're right, very fitting for the both of them...

And people with clinical depression who commit suicide must be cowards too, then? And haven't you considered that people don't have the same capacity to deal with loss and grief? Some simply can't overcome it, because they're broken beyond repair. Respect them or don't, the issue isn't that simple.

Clinical depression is something I don't get, but that's probably because I never came in close contact with it. So I also can't link it to suicide or put it in the right frame. And trust me, I count myself lucky I never came in close contact with it.
The people I personally know that committed suicide didn't have any sort of depression, but they just gave up on life. Leaving devastated family members behind questioning why they did what they did. It's people like that who are cowards. If it's a desease, then you can't help yourself, but if you consciously choose to take your own live because you think it would be easier being death and thus leaving your family and friends in pieces, then you're a coward.

[Anuna]

Again totally agree

Thank you. Mental ilnesses shouldn't be trivialized.

I'm sorry folks, but this is my hot button. I see frakked up people every day and you can't just sit and count causes and measure someone's guilt or grief or anything and say this is so and so. People are complicated and sensitive and precious. Sometimes you don't like your client, but it's your duty to help him or her and if you can't make a honest attempt to see a person beyond the diagnosis and give them honest empathy, then all your knowledge and skill fails.

You just can't put people in neat little boxes, weight and measure them and then explain them. It doesn't work like that.

[nephtys59]

And haven't you considered that people don't have the same capacity to deal with loss and grief? Some simply can't overcome it, because they're broken beyond repair. Respect them or don't, the issue isn't that simple.

I've been broken beyond repair. More than once. Since I was a child. I even wished I died. But not for a second I thought about suicide.
And by saying that I consider suicide as a form of cowardice I'm not saying I disrespect anybody.

[VampyreWraith]

Thank you. Mental ilnesses shouldn't be trivialized.

I'm sorry folks, but this is my hot button. I see frakked up people every day and you can't just sit and count causes and measure someone's guilt or grief or anything and say this is so and so. People are complicated and sensitive and precious. Sometimes you don't like your client, but it's your duty to help him or her and if you can't make a honest attempt to see a person beyond the diagnosis and give them honest empathy, then all your knowledge and skill fails.

You just can't put people in neat little boxes, weight and measure them and then explain them. It doesn't work like that.

No thank you lol . And i agree with everything u said in this post as well