Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[VampyreWraith]

Exactly. The point is, none of these characters are youngsters. They have a certain age, and experience that goes along and that is perfectly fine. EVERYONE AGES. It's not a tragedy. I never got that 'I'm losing my youth OMG look there's a wrinkle!' thing, and just as SR says, it's a made - up argument that ahs nothing to do with characters and the way they interacted on screen. Same goes for those arguments that Elizabeth was too pushy and - believe it or not - harrased John. (Like in that Michael Douglas and Demi Moore movie.) Which, again, has me wondering if there is some different version of SGA going around, one that I haven't seen?

I never saw elizabeth as harassing john. I always saw john as being very charming/flirty with elizabeth especially when he wanted something, (but imo he was like that with everyone especially women) and for elizabeth's part i saw her as knowing exactly what he was doing, kinda rolling her eyes at it and playing along with it if it was something she was going to agree to anyway, making him think that he was too cute to say no to. but he also knew that shed never really go along with it just because he was charming. They both knew what the other was trying to do and played along for fun. And Im talking about non- life threatening stuff here, i never saw this mid-crisis or anything . Kinda like whats going on at the beginning of the defiant one

[Eri13]

I never saw elizabeth as harassing john. I always saw john as being very charming/flirty with elizabeth especially when he wanted something, (but imo he was like that with everyone especially women) and for elizabeth's part i saw her as knowing exactly what he was doing, kinda rolling her eyes at it and playing along with it if it was something she was going to agree to anyway, making him think that he was too cute to say no to. but he also knew that shed never really go along with it just because he was charming. They both knew what the other was trying to do and played along for fun. And Im talking about non- life threatening stuff here, i never saw this mid-crisis or anything . Kinda like whats going on at the beginning of the defiant one

I think that's a perfect description of the Sparky dynamic! Especially the part about John knowing she wasn't fooled by his 'charming' bit but that she pretended it was working on her. That's a great way to summarize them!

Sorry I'm skipping over the book discussion--but I refuse to let word of those things rain on my parade. I'm having too much fun with real canon and canon-inspired fanon.

How's everyone's homework going?

[KrisRussel]

Is it sad that I completely get that?

Hehe, I get it too
Nerds rule!!

[KrisRussel]

I wasn't talking about the banner, but the poster: http://picasaweb.google.com/kris.rus...38825324661394

There's no more room for Carson
And like I already explained... all his promo pics seem off somehow in the poster and they don't really fit...

[Anuna]

I never saw elizabeth as harassing john. I always saw john as being very charming/flirty with elizabeth especially when he wanted something, (but imo he was like that with everyone especially women) and for elizabeth's part i saw her as knowing exactly what he was doing, kinda rolling her eyes at it and playing along with it if it was something she was going to agree to anyway, making him think that he was too cute to say no to. but he also knew that shed never really go along with it just because he was charming. They both knew what the other was trying to do and played along for fun. And Im talking about non- life threatening stuff here, i never saw this mid-crisis or anything . Kinda like whats going on at the beginning of the defiant one

Word!! I think you described it perfectly. They obviously enjoyed flirting with each other, it was a lovely give - and - take relationship, with lots of fun, but when the things got serious, they rarely disagreed. john always had her back, and she often asked his opinion and advice, and thanx to that dynamics, combined with such blatant and powerful on screen chemistry tied me to this ship.

Books OT:

Spoiler:

hey guys, I have a theme song for those tie in books. Everyone who knows my relationship with Robbie Williams songs will understand perfectly.

[Anuna]

I think that's a perfect description of the Sparky dynamic! Especially the part about John knowing she wasn't fooled by his 'charming' bit but that she pretended it was working on her. That's a great way to summarize them!

Sorry I'm skipping over the book discussion--but I refuse to let word of those things rain on my parade. I'm having too much fun with real canon and canon-inspired fanon.

How's everyone's homework going?

I perfectly understand why you're skipping. I'm having too much fun being the bad kid here.

Um. What's the homework? *hides from Eri*

[Anuna]

Hey guys - can we reach 97 000 by the end of this weekend? Come on! So much awesome stuff to comment on!

[Southern Red]

I never saw elizabeth as harassing john. I always saw john as being very charming/flirty with elizabeth especially when he wanted something, (but imo he was like that with everyone especially women) and for elizabeth's part i saw her as knowing exactly what he was doing, kinda rolling her eyes at it and playing along with it if it was something she was going to agree to anyway, making him think that he was too cute to say no to. but he also knew that shed never really go along with it just because he was charming. They both knew what the other was trying to do and played along for fun. And Im talking about non- life threatening stuff here, i never saw this mid-crisis or anything . Kinda like whats going on at the beginning of the defiant one

The coffee scene at the beginning of The Intruder is a good example of that. I think he brought up that promotion again just to wind her up. She called him on it just like he knew she would and he let her know he knew she knew and all the rest of it. I think that was his awkward way of thanking her and telling her that he appreciated how she believed in him. I see that scene as a bit of a conclusion to the end scene in 38 Min when he wouldn't tell her what he was going to tell her.

My rambling point is they understood each other and could have a conversation about a completely different subject than the one they both knew was actually going on. LOL I'm in a rush and don't have time to make sense.

I think that's a perfect description of the Sparky dynamic! Especially the part about John knowing she wasn't fooled by his 'charming' bit but that she pretended it was working on her. That's a great way to summarize them!

Sorry I'm skipping over the book discussion--but I refuse to let word of those things rain on my parade. I'm having too much fun with real canon and canon-inspired fanon.

How's everyone's homework going?

*raises hand like a good student* I finished writing it. Now have to edit. Wow it was like 12 pages. So we'll be looking at a page per minute or so. Writers take heed.!

[Southern Red]

Hey guys - can we reach 97 000 by the end of this weekend? Come on! So much awesome stuff to comment on!

We can sure try. I'd like to get back to the fun stuff also. We'll have to wait and see on the books. I'll be around most of today and tomorrow. Lots to do on Sat but will be here off and on.

[VampyreWraith]

I think that's a perfect description of the Sparky dynamic! Especially the part about John knowing she wasn't fooled by his 'charming' bit but that she pretended it was working on her. That's a great way to summarize them!

Sorry I'm skipping over the book discussion--but I refuse to let word of those things rain on my parade. I'm having too much fun with real canon and canon-inspired fanon.

How's everyone's homework going?

Thats what I saw and i personally believe thats what was intended. I'm someone who never wanted to see john and elizabeth get together on the show while she was his boss and i also never wanted to see john and teyla together while she was on his team. I could see that john cared for and respected both teyla and elizabeth for who they were, and had a unique relationship with both women. I also saw more natural chemisty and inderstanding between john and elizabeth. John and teyla sometimes seemed awkward around each other which might have had something to do with cultural differences. I can't see teyla leaving kannan for john, she seemed to care for him and a great deal and as a fellow athosian he was a link to her people while living on atlantis, and it was never even hinted that they were having any sort of problems in season 5. That is pretty much all canon. I can't see john going after teyla and breaking up a family. I can't see john persueing teyla even if she wasnt with kannan, to me they had a sam /daniel feel to them, really good friends and co-workers, and even if they were attracted to each other would never want to complicate there friendship (not that i see sam and daniel as attracted to each other) thats not even getting into the danger and the disruption to the team dynamic that sleeping with a team mate would pose.

[VampyreWraith]

Alternatively, there's:

Spoiler:

Teyla, don't deny yourself the pleasure of true love. Now that Kanaan has realised that his affinity with childcare meant he was a raging homosexual and come out of the closet, you are free to get together with John.

I know you resisted the urge when I was alive, and I thank you for that. I'm sure you knew I had a crush on John, but was too frigid to make a move. Thankfully I didn't have the nerve, an age gap of a year or two is so much more inappropriate than one of nearly ten.

But now that I'm dead, there's no reason for you to hold back. John can bury himself in your heaving bosoms and you can make love at all hours of the day. And when you are visiting your people, John can visit Kanaan to take care of his urges. It couldn't work out any better if I planned it myself.

It'll make me so happy to see the two of you together. You've always been like a daughter to me, I know you'll be able to change John from that annoying co-worker I couldn't relate to into a complete human being.

I'll leave you to muse on that, I want to check up on my other son, Rodney. From what I hear, that lovely young Jennifer is pregnant. I'm so excited to be a grandmother in waiting!!! I could never have children, due to my inability to relate to people in general, and my failed attempts to attract men before I got past childbearing age, so it makes me so pleased to see you and Rodney taking that step. I might die for real this time!

LOL , i nearly died laughing reading that.

[parsifal]

From an interview with Wright & Cooper in 2004:

Considered much more of a sure thing is the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, and both Brad and Robert speak in glowing terms of Torri Higginson, who will be taking the role originated by Jessica Steen. “She became the bar, and no one got near it,” Brad says of Torri during the casting process. Robert adds, “We found Torri right away, and fell in love with her. Actually, it was, like, five seconds into her audition, it was halfway through the speech, and Brad said, ‘O.T.W.!’ which just means ‘On To Wardrobe!’” he laughs.

What they both saw in her performance was an ability to play a strong leader without approaching the role as a man would. “What I love about her,” Brad says, “is she’s just strong. Torri is just strong. She doesn’t have to put on any airs.” “And yet she is able to appear vulnerable, and feminine, and all those things,” Robert interjects as Brad continues, “But when she takes command, like when she says to Sheppard in the pilot, ‘Look, just shut up for a minute!’, you don’t feel like it’s…” “…*****y,” Robert finishes.

“She’s just strong,” Brad repeats, “and she’s a great balance for Joe [Flanigan, who plays Major John Sheppard], and smart! In the ‘SG-1’ two parter, we get to see her in her natural element, too, being a diplomat. She’s negotiating with Goa’ulds, and she shows off just how good she can be.” Robert notes, “And I think you see in the two-hour of ‘SG-1’ as well, that the other actors obviously developed an immediate respect for her, and that that came across in the way that the characters saw her now in command of the SGC.”

http://rdanderson.com/stargate/lexic...bradrobert.htm

How things change...

[Southern Red]

From an interview with Wright & Cooper in 2004:

Considered much more of a sure thing is the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, and both Brad and Robert speak in glowing terms of Torri Higginson, who will be taking the role originated by Jessica Steen. “She became the bar, and no one got near it,” Brad says of Torri during the casting process. Robert adds, “We found Torri right away, and fell in love with her. Actually, it was, like, five seconds into her audition, it was halfway through the speech, and Brad said, ‘O.T.W.!’ which just means ‘On To Wardrobe!’” he laughs.

What they both saw in her performance was an ability to play a strong leader without approaching the role as a man would. “What I love about her,” Brad says, “is she’s just strong. Torri is just strong. She doesn’t have to put on any airs.” “And yet she is able to appear vulnerable, and feminine, and all those things,” Robert interjects as Brad continues, “But when she takes command, like when she says to Sheppard in the pilot, ‘Look, just shut up for a minute!’, you don’t feel like it’s…” “…*****y,” Robert finishes.

“She’s just strong,” Brad repeats, “and she’s a great balance for Joe [Flanigan, who plays Major John Sheppard], and smart! In the ‘SG-1’ two parter, we get to see her in her natural element, too, being a diplomat. She’s negotiating with Goa’ulds, and she shows off just how good she can be.” Robert notes, “And I think you see in the two-hour of ‘SG-1’ as well, that the other actors obviously developed an immediate respect for her, and that that came across in the way that the characters saw her now in command of the SGC.”

http://rdanderson.com/stargate/lexic...bradrobert.htm

How things change...

I'll say. They changed their tune pretty fast. But they said a lot of things about how great the cast was early on that changed by S5. LOL

[Eri13]

The coffee scene at the beginning of The Intruder is a good example of that. I think he brought up that promotion again just to wind her up. She called him on it just like he knew she would and he let her know he knew she knew and all the rest of it. I think that was his awkward way of thanking her and telling her that he appreciated how she believed in him. I see that scene as a bit of a conclusion to the end scene in 38 Min when he wouldn't tell her what he was going to tell her.

My rambling point is they understood each other and could have a conversation about a completely different subject than the one they both knew was actually going on. LOL I'm in a rush and don't have time to make sense.

*raises hand like a good student* I finished writing it. Now have to edit. Wow it was like 12 pages. So we'll be looking at a page per minute or so. Writers take heed.!

I perfectly understand why you're skipping. I'm having too much fun being the bad kid here.

Um. What's the homework? *hides from Eri*

Yes! That's what I was thinking, about a page per minute, maybe a little more, so we're looking at minimum about 42-44 pages of story to start.

Homework, Anuna, you bad student, was to write the opening sequence of Echoes from the pre-credits start scene (including the 'previously ons') to the first US written-in break, which is the scene where Elizabeth sees the burned man in the elevator for the first time (the next scene is FH's famous Atlantis Angels scene, with Kate, Teyla and Elizabeth walking in the corridor and talking about Elizabeth's vision).

It's about 12 minutes worth of scene time. Include scene breaks as something like (--/--) marks in your paper. Note the minor scene cliffhangers and the major commercial break scene ender (Elizabeth looking WAYYY concerned). You can find script transcripts at gateworld.net or twiztv.com.

Write it as you see it, in your style. Then we'll compare. I think deadline was supposed to be tomorrow, but we can extend it for everyone else.

It would be really nice if all our writers did this, so they could both get the feel of what it is like to summarize/novelize TV scenes and so they could know how to interweave scenes for that TV feel. All writers need to know what we're aiming for here.

Thats what I saw and i personally believe thats what was intended. I'm someone who never wanted to see john and elizabeth get together on the show while she was his boss and i also never wanted to see john and teyla together while she was on his team. I could see that john cared for and respected both teyla and elizabeth for who they were, and had a unique relationship with both women. I also saw more natural chemisty and inderstanding between john and elizabeth. John and teyla sometimes seemed awkward around each other which might have had something to do with cultural differences. I can't see teyla leaving kannan for john, she seemed to care for him and a great deal and as a fellow athosian he was a link to her people while living on atlantis, and it was never even hinted that they were having any sort of problems in season 5. That is pretty much all canon. I can't see john going after teyla and breaking up a family. I can't see john persueing teyla even if she wasnt with kannan, to me they had a sam /daniel feel to them, really good friends and co-workers, and even if they were attracted to each other would never want to complicate there friendship (not that i see sam and daniel as attracted to each other) thats not even getting into the danger and the disruption to the team dynamic that sleeping with a team mate would pose.

ITA TOTALLY with everything you said. I felt that way too, about the Elizabeth/John relationship and how John would be with Teyla. I just saw more chemistry and connection with J/E, which is why I'm a Sparky. But everything was groundwork and I never expected them to be together onscreen, at least not as how it was first written.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday!

Interestingly, it seems that Joe F agrees with you on the bad fanfic note - didn't someone at J/T say he wasn't impressedby the new books coming out? LOL. Irony at its best.

Also, I am THISCLOSE to tell JG what I think of her sudden idea to include Elizabeth. She says all three authors like her? Pfffft. If she writers her like she does in her fic, that will be a real proof of liking her. Good grief.

If the authors really liked her, they'd bring her back permanently instead of doing yet another retread of TPTW's habit of dangling her in front of our faces and then taking her away again by the end of the episode. We got tired of it after the first time.

How's everyone's homework going?

Slowly.

*raises hand like a good student* I finished writing it. Now have to edit. Wow it was like 12 pages. So we'll be looking at a page per minute or so. Writers take heed.!

12 pages?!? Good grief!

From an interview with Wright & Cooper in 2004:

Considered much more of a sure thing is the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, and both Brad and Robert speak in glowing terms of Torri Higginson, who will be taking the role originated by Jessica Steen. “She became the bar, and no one got near it,” Brad says of Torri during the casting process. Robert adds, “We found Torri right away, and fell in love with her. Actually, it was, like, five seconds into her audition, it was halfway through the speech, and Brad said, ‘O.T.W.!’ which just means ‘On To Wardrobe!’” he laughs.

What they both saw in her performance was an ability to play a strong leader without approaching the role as a man would. “What I love about her,” Brad says, “is she’s just strong. Torri is just strong. She doesn’t have to put on any airs.” “And yet she is able to appear vulnerable, and feminine, and all those things,” Robert interjects as Brad continues, “But when she takes command, like when she says to Sheppard in the pilot, ‘Look, just shut up for a minute!’, you don’t feel like it’s…” “…*****y,” Robert finishes.

“She’s just strong,” Brad repeats, “and she’s a great balance for Joe [Flanigan, who plays Major John Sheppard], and smart! In the ‘SG-1’ two parter, we get to see her in her natural element, too, being a diplomat. She’s negotiating with Goa’ulds, and she shows off just how good she can be.” Robert notes, “And I think you see in the two-hour of ‘SG-1’ as well, that the other actors obviously developed an immediate respect for her, and that that came across in the way that the characters saw her now in command of the SGC.”

http://rdanderson.com/stargate/lexic...bradrobert.htm

How things change...

That... that's just sad. They 'loved' her so much at the beginning, and then three years later, they couldn't wait to throw her to the wolves.

I'll say. They changed their tune pretty fast. But they said a lot of things about how great the cast was early on that changed by S5. LOL

Yeah, like how Sheppard's ATA gene was sooo important, for one.