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    Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
    Their parents say it too. One of them was married and his wife says it. His son (who's 16 now and was 14 back then) says it. He has never visited his dad's grave because he can't forgive him for leaving him and his mom behind. He didn't even shed a tear at his funeral. Now that breaks my heart and it makes me angry with the person who committed suicide. And it leaves me with absolutely zero respect for them.
    As someone with bipolar depression, and with children i'd like to say something. its a life long thing you can't will into not being there. I don't chose to be sad even if i have every rerason to be happy or whatever. People who know me usually dont picture me as someone with depression. I'm quiet and shy, yet a bit silly and goofy too. I laugh and make jokes. I come off as pretty much psychologically normal. I can tell you that i love my children very much and would never want to hurt them in anyway, i would never want them to grow up without a mother. I actually get scared to go to a doctor in case the doctor tells me i have some kind of terminal disease because i don't want to die and i want to see my children grow up. But sometimes i feel soo sad and i don't know y, and can't really explain it, and nothing really makes any sense. I've never really tried to kill myself, but i can understand y someone would want to, so i can't judge. Ok im done with my public service announcement lol
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      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
      Thank you kindly. And thank you fro greening me.
      your welcome
      sigpic

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        This thread is an happy one.lol

        About suicide. I don't know what to think. My brother tried 4 years ago to kill himself. My first reaction: I was furious and didn't want to see him. Second reaction was to feel guilty to not see it coming and the last one was to try to help him. I took it like cowardise at first and like a selfish act. I'm still angry when I think about it. He didn't think about his family and friends. But when you are in a situation where life is not easy and you very sad and you pretend to be ok, I think it's 'normal' to think about it. I'm not for it of course but it's a human thought. My brother loved lifes (and loves it now) but he thought about it and did it. I can't completely understand it but when we don't live it we don't know what we will do.
        And depression is very a stupid and complicate disease.
        It was my thought about it.

        I should finish this post by a good note. The frog legs were delicious.lol

        Back to Saprky now.
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        Sig made by nephty and avi by Kris....THANK YOU!

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          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          And you still don't have the right to judge them - because anyone, including you and me - anyone can be broken and hopeless.

          Perhaps seeing this clip from "Sophie's choice" could illustrate what I'm trying to tell you. A warning, though. that scene isn't scary. It's probably the single most horrible thing I've seen in a movie, not because it's a horror movie, but because it's realistic.
          I know what you're trying to tell me, but I'm talking about three people I knew, upclose and personal. Three people who left their families broken. Three people who had every reason to live. Three people who, according to EVERYONE that knew them, had no reason whatsoever to take their own lives. I'm not talking about anyone else. I know some people see it as their only way out and for some people it's a clinical thing, but I'm only talking about my three friends right now.
          I don't know when that kid will get over his anger and I don't if he will ever visit his dads grave and I don't know if his wife will ever forgive him and it hurts me to see them like that and that makes me angry with the guy who took his own life too. The only thing I'm really glad about is the fact that his father found his body and not his son. And I know none of us will ever know what truly drove them to do what they did, but seeing their families and their friends doubting themselves, then I'm angry with them and to me they're cowards because they left their families crushed. Honestly, I don't want to imagine how that kid would have reacted if he had found his dad's body.
          And again, I'm only talking about the three people I knew. I know that in your line of work you see some extreme cases, but I'm not talking about those. When I talk about suicide, my friends come to mind and to me and their family and the rest of their friends, all three of them are cowards. So I automatically link that to suicide in general. I know it's the wrong thing to do, but it just happens automatically. And I'm sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way.

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            Originally posted by Fionnait View Post
            So, I wasn't really planning on starting a discussion like this, when I mentioned the possibility of depression etc... And because I started it I feel I should end it. What I said was personally biased, because my grandfather committed suicide and left behind a big mess that was entirely his own fault and that my parents had to pick up and my devastated grandmother. Except for my grandmother, we were all left behind feeling rather angry. And that's all I feel to this day. Anger. This is why I may lack any understanding for it. No disrespect intended.

            Can we all go back to Sparky please?
            There is no disrespect in this, because it's a whole different position to be in, and all your emotions are real and valid.

            However I go berserk when I see judging. Just because I could think i understand it all, I'm still not entitled to judge. Even if you do. It happened to you, not to me, and that makes all the difference.

            Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
            As someone with bipolar depression, and with children i'd like to say something. its a life long thing you can't will into not being there. I don't chose to be sad even if i have every rerason to be happy or whatever. People who know me usually dont picture me as someone with depression. I'm quiet and shy, yet a bit silly and goofy too. I laugh and make jokes. I come off as pretty much psychologically normal. I can tell you that i love my children very much and would never want to hurt them in anyway, i would never want them to grow up without a mother. I actually get scared to go to a doctor in case the doctor tells me i have some kind of terminal disease because i don't want to die and i want to see my children grow up. But sometimes i feel soo sad and i don't know y, and can't really explain it, and nothing really makes any sense. I've never really tried to kill myself, but i can understand y someone would want to, so i can't judge. Ok im done with my public service announcement lol
            *hugs*

            I had a reactive depression episode eight years ago. I didn't want my life to end, but for several months I didn't see much sense in it. And one who didn't go through something like that can't rationally understand how it really feels.

            My point is, don't judge. Even when you know all the facts, don't judge. It's just very very unkind.
            I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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              Originally posted by Probie View Post
              Back to Saprky now.
              Yes, I agree, let's go back to happy place called Sparky

              Spoiler:

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                Sparky Shipper. Genetically predisposed to being stubborn... really pesky.

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                  Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                  There is no disrespect in this, because it's a whole different position to be in, and all your emotions are real and valid.

                  However I go berserk when I see judging. Just because I could think i understand it all, I'm still not entitled to judge. Even if you do. It happened to you, not to me, and that makes all the difference.



                  *hugs*

                  I had a reactive depression episode eight years ago. I didn't want my life to end, but for several months I didn't see much sense in it. And one who didn't go through something like that can't rationally understand how it really feels.

                  My point is, don't judge. Even when you know all the facts, don't judge. It's just very very unkind.
                  Thanks and exactly don't judge.
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                    Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                    I know what you're trying to tell me, but I'm talking about three people I knew, upclose and personal. Three people who left their families broken. Three people who had every reason to live. Three people who, according to EVERYONE that knew them, had no reason whatsoever to take their own lives. I'm not talking about anyone else. I know some people see it as their only way out and for some people it's a clinical thing, but I'm only talking about my three friends right now.
                    I don't know when that kid will get over his anger and I don't if he will ever visit his dads grave and I don't know if his wife will ever forgive him and it hurts me to see them like that and that makes me angry with the guy who took his own life too. The only thing I'm really glad about is the fact that his father found his body and not his son. And I know none of us will ever know what truly drove them to do what they did, but seeing their families and their friends doubting themselves, then I'm angry with them and to me they're cowards because they left their families crushed. Honestly, I don't want to imagine how that kid would have reacted if he had found his dad's body.
                    And again, I'm only talking about the three people I knew. I know that in your line of work you see some extreme cases, but I'm not talking about those. When I talk about suicide, my friends come to mind and to me and their family and the rest of their friends, all three of them are cowards. So I automatically link that to suicide in general. I know it's the wrong thing to do, but it just happens automatically. And I'm sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way.
                    Then don't make general statements. Just don't make general statements. Don't link it to ever case because it's just not true for every case. I udnerstand what you're talking about, because I've seen cases like that. The goal of the therapy is, believe it or not, to help these people let go of destructive feelings lifet behind, including anger and disappointment. otherwise they remain the victims of that suicide. Yet, you don't do it by judging their father or whoever commited suicide, because they would enevr feel as much anger, if they didn't love this person in the first place. What you're tyring to do, is help them let go somehow and forgive them, and it might be the hardest thing to forgive, because the ones who are left behind never really understand. And it's huge, and life shattering and terrible and scary, and of course they want to understand why, because they were robbed off someone they loved for no apparent reason. So yeah, I do understand, at least on rational level. But one can't know, unless he/she experiences the same thing.
                    I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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                      Originally posted by Fionnait View Post
                      Sir Terry is the best! Best female characters in the history of Fantasy and every character, even the minor ones, is three-dimensional.
                      I haven't read anything yet - on the to-read list like so many other books - but that's good to know. I love me some fantastic female characters.

                      Originally posted by Fionnait View Post
                      And I tend to be a know-it-all, just hit me on the head, it usually helps.
                      I do that when my computer won't properly do as I ask it to - but first I threaten to throw it out. Does someone threaten you first too?

                      Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                      ...I really do think that people who commit suicide are cowards who'd rather die than live and I don't have a single bit of respect for them.
                      I respectfully will have to agree to very much disagree in that regard.

                      The only person I know to have killed himself was a classmate in university - and we all wondered why. And there wasn't a single person at his funeral who thought he was a coward. Something drove him over the edge. Unfortunately for us, we'll never know for sure what that something was.

                      But remembering him fondly is the only thing we can do - and he was hilarious at times. Especially during exam-time. He would arrive like he didn't have a care in the world, and all of us were stressing out with too much care in the world. May have only known him for a year - but he left an impression for life.

                      Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                      ....they had every reason to live.
                      Then why take their own lives?

                      Originally posted by Fionnait View Post
                      ...Anger...
                      That's the word - anger - that's a powerful emotion which has many causes and many effects on people.

                      I'm angry when I see my mom struggle to do something as simple as writing her name. You are angry for what your grandfather did. Kris is angry - or sounds angry to me (could be wrong here).

                      But - Anuna, correct me if I'm wrong here - isn't anger just another step towards acceptance?

                      And this brings us back to John and his family - he was convinced his father was angry with him? But isn't he also angry with them because in LFP when ELizabeth asks him about sending a message home, he says there's no one to send it to (or something along those lines). Maybe he was his mother's favorite and when she died he lost a piece of himself... just thinking out loud here... and therefor rebelled against his father's wishes.
                      Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                      Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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                        Anger is a flipside of caring. You never get angry with someone you don't care for.
                        I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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                          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                          I haven't read anything yet - on the to-read list like so many other books - but that's good to know. I love me some fantastic female characters.
                          Yes! Do it, read it! I already got Probie hooked on Discworld and now she is mad at me, because she now has to buy about 40 books or so *hehe* And the females are all different, not just one stereotype that he does well.


                          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                          I do that when my computer won't properly do as I ask it to - but first I threaten to throw it out. Does someone threaten you first too?
                          No-one has ever done that, but you could try! I haven't hit my computers ever since I switched to a Mac.


                          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                          That's the word - anger - that's a powerful emotion which has many causes and many effects on people.

                          But - Anuna, correct me if I'm wrong here - isn't anger just another step towards acceptance
                          I was shocked for about 3 minutes, then I was sad for about 5 and all that came afterwards was the anger, especially when I see how my grandma struggles with it. I don't think I'm adhering to the textbook here...

                          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                          Anger is a flipside of caring. You never get angry with someone you don't care for.
                          Maybe I care very much about my grandma and what it does to her? And for all the stress that my parents had.

                          Sparky Shipper. Genetically predisposed to being stubborn... really pesky.

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                            @Fionnait - I don't think it's just a maybe *huge hugs* I'm so sorry, because it must feel terrible.

                            I think I'll be back to fic writing.
                            I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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                              Originally posted by Fionnait View Post
                              Can we all go back to Sparky please?
                              Yes, please.

                              Time to hug, kiss and make up, and get back to the business of converting the world to the worship of Sparky. Agreed, everyone?

                              Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                              I do that when my computer won't properly do as I ask it to - but first I threaten to throw it out. Does someone threaten you first too?
                              I just stomp around and scream obscenities in a couple of languages.

                              Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                              And this brings us back to John and his family - he was convinced his father was angry with him? But isn't he also angry with them because in LFP when ELizabeth asks him about sending a message home, he says there's no one to send it to (or something along those lines). Maybe he was his mother's favorite and when she died he lost a piece of himself... just thinking out loud here... and therefor rebelled against his father's wishes.
                              And tying it in to Sparky, I think it's paralleled in how, after losing Elizabeth, John seems to have lost another piece of himself. We saw the first hint of it in The Eye, but it's really after Lifeline that he lapses more and more often into a darker, uglier side to his character, intimidating Wallace into sacrificing himself to feed Todd in Miller's Crossing or pushing around village leaders in Outsiders and Identity. It's like Elizabeth's influence held him back, made him want to be better, for her sake and the sake of everyone else, but without her gentle hand, he's saying 'screw this, no more Mr. Nice Guy.' Or am I off base with that idea?
                              (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                              Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

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                                Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                                Yes, please.

                                Time to hug, kiss and make up, and get back to the business of converting the world to the worship of Sparky. Agreed, everyone?



                                I just stomp around and scream obscenities in a couple of languages.



                                And tying it in to Sparky, I think it's paralleled in how, after losing Elizabeth, John seems to have lost another piece of himself. We saw the first hint of it in The Eye, but it's really after Lifeline that he lapses more and more often into a darker, uglier side to his character, intimidating Wallace into sacrificing himself to feed Todd in Miller's Crossing or pushing around village leaders in Outsiders and Identity. It's like Elizabeth's influence held him back, made him want to be better, for her sake and the sake of everyone else, but without her gentle hand, he's saying 'screw this, no more Mr. Nice Guy.' Or am I off base with that idea?
                                I LOVE that idea, but we don't want me to go on psychoaanlysis spree again.

                                On a more serious note, love and deep affection have certain and important amount of influence over person's life. Which means, if that influence is gone, a person could feel there's no need, or reason to abide some rules/respect values... etc. That can be a form of grief in itself, so yeah. It sounds like John to me a LOT.
                                I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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