Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Anuna]

You're right, very fitting for the both of them...



Clinical depression is something I don't get, but that's probably because I never came in close contact with it. So I also can't link it to suicide or put it in the right frame. And trust me, I count myself lucky I never came in close contact with it.
The people I personally know that committed suicide didn't have any sort of depression, but they just gave up on life. Leaving devastated family members behind questioning why they did what they did. It's people like that who are cowards. If it's a desease, then you can't help yourself, but if you consciously choose to take your own live because you think it would be easier being death and thus leaving your family and friends in pieces, then you're a coward.

Are you telling me you know how it felt to live their lives and bear their pain? Really?

[Anuna]

I've been broken beyond repair. More than once. Since I was a child. I even wished I died. But not for a second I thought about suicide.
And by saying that I consider suicide as a form of cowardice I'm not saying I disrespect anybody.

Not everyone is as strong as you, to be broken several times and survive it.

No, you're not saying it in a straightforward manner, but aren't you assuming that you understand every single cause for such act? For instance, people who are repeatedly victimized often commit suicide - for instance being beaten up or otherwise traumatized on daily basis. Can you really call that cowardice?

[VampyreWraith]

Not everyone is as strong as you, to be broken several times and survive it.

No, you're not saying it in a straightforward manner, but aren't you assuming that you understand every single cause for such act? For instance, people who are repeatedly victimized often commit suicide - for instance being beaten up or otherwise traumatized on daily basis. Can you really call that cowardice?

I have to say that i really appreciate hearing you sticking up for people with mental illnesses. Thanks

[Anuna]

I have to say that i really appreciate hearing you sticking up for people with mental illnesses. Thanks

I am a psychologist. I work with troubled and traumatized people. This is my professional and personal ethics. It's the basis of everything I do at my job, and it's why I'm good at my job, and as I said, this is my hot button.

[nephtys59]

For instance, people who are repeatedly victimized often commit suicide - for instance being beaten up or otherwise traumatized on daily basis. Can you really call that cowardice?

I respect too much LIFE itself (and I'm atheist) to justify suicide.
And as to being traumatized on a daily basis, well I had my share of it.
I had a violent sister who used to beat my mother, terrorizing us in every possible way she could find and I can't count the number of times the Police was coming home. I'm 50 now and still can't sleep in the dark and have nightmares about my childhood.
But suicide is an option I would NEVER EVER take in consideration.

[KrisRussel]

Are you telling me you know how it felt to live their lives and bear their pain? Really?

I'm not saying that, but I'm talking about people I knew. Some for years, some from childhood. I know you can never truly know anyone 100%, but I never ever expected them to take their own lives. They were happy people, with tons of friends and families that loved them and supported them. They weren't depressive, not as far as anyone knew at least, and they didn't loose anyone or anything important. But from one day to the next, they took their own lives. I don't get it and I don't think I'll ever get it. But in my eyes, those people are cowards, because as far as I know and as far as their other friends and family knew, they had absolutely no reason to commit suicide. On the contrary... they had every reason to live.

[Lythisrose]

i've always pictured her getting into a car accident , after going to pick up john from being someplace he wasnt supposed to be. id pictured them aguing in the car and saying and her saying something about how dissapointed his father was going to be if he ever found out what john had been doing or where hed been.
I like Anne, its pretty.

This was always my feeling of what possibly happened and that he always felt some guilt about it. I like Anne too.

[VampyreWraith]

I am a psychologist. I work with troubled and traumatized people. This is my professional and personal ethics. It's the basis of everything I do at my job, and it's why I'm good at my job, and as I said, this is my hot button.

You must be a good psychologist then and really believe in what you do/say. not everyone is like that, and some people despite their occupation dont always practice what they preach especially outside of work and on a message board.

[Anuna]

I'm not saying that, but I'm talking about people I knew. Some for years, some from childhood. I know you can never truly know anyone 100%, but I never ever expected them to take their own lives. They were happy people, with tons of friends and families that loved them and supported them. They weren't depressive, not as far as anyone knew at least, and they didn't loose anyone or anything important. But from one day to the next, they took their own lives. I don't get it and I don't think I'll ever get it. But in my eyes, those people are cowards, because as far as I know and as far as their other friends and family knew, they had absolutely no reason to commit suicide. On the contrary... they had every reason to live.

Not understanding them and their reasons still doesn't give you right to judge them. Because you don't know if they had mental condition or not. Something similar happened to a colleague I worked with few months ago. His son commited suicide. There are several stories about why he did that. And by impression of everyone who knew the boy, he had every reason to live.

Imagine how his parents feel when they hear that. Or when someone says their son was a coward.

You must be a good psychologist then and really believe in what you do/say. not everyone is like that, and some people despite their occupation dont always practice what they preach especially outside of work and on a message board.

I must sound ridiculous. But I see these things on almost daily basis and while some people are lucky enough to live miles and miles away from problems like these, it's other people's nightmare they go through day in and day out. And I believe someone has to take them seriously. Which is why I get this riled up.

Nepthys, i don't want you to think I'm downplaying what you've been through. I do think what I say when Is ay you're incredibly strong. I was traumatized myself, just in a different way, and I believe that to each person their pain is the greatest, which is why I believe we shoudln't pass judgement on each other. Not even if someone commits a suicide.

[VampyreWraith]

This was always my feeling of what possibly happened and that he always felt some guilt about it. I like Anne too.

Exactly , and that she didn't die upon impact, and john had to watch her die.

[VampyreWraith]

I must sound ridiculous. But I see these things on almost daily basis and while some people are lucky enough to live miles and miles away from problems like these, it's other people's nightmare they go through day in and day out. And I believe someone has to take them seriously. Which is why I get this riled up.

I don't think you sound ridiculous. I think you have integrity.

[KrisRussel]

Not understanding them and their reasons still doesn't give you right to judge them. Because you don't know if they had mental condition or not. Something similar happened to a colleague I worked with few months ago. His son commited suicide. There are several stories about why he did that. And by impression of everyone who knew the boy, he had every reason to live.

Imagine how his parents feel when they hear that. Or when someone says their son was a coward.

Their parents say it too. One of them was married and his wife says it. His son (who's 16 now and was 14 back then) says it. He has never visited his dad's grave because he can't forgive him for leaving him and his mom behind. He didn't even shed a tear at his funeral. Now that breaks my heart and it makes me angry with the person who committed suicide. And it leaves me with absolutely zero respect for them.

[Anuna]

Their parents say it too. One of them was married and his wife says it. His son (who's 16 now and was 14 back then) says it. He has never visited his dad's grave because he can't forgive him for leaving him and his mom behind. He didn't even shed a tear at his funeral. Now that breaks my heart and it makes me angry with the person who committed suicide. And it leaves me with absolutely zero respect for them.

And you still don't have the right to judge them - because anyone, including you and me - anyone can be broken and hopeless.

Perhaps seeing this clip from "Sophie's choice" could illustrate what I'm trying to tell you. A warning, though. that scene isn't scary. It's probably the single most horrible thing I've seen in a movie, not because it's a horror movie, but because it's realistic.

[Anuna]

I don't think you sound ridiculous. I think you have integrity.

Thank you kindly. And thank you fro greening me.

[Fionnait]

Their parents say it too. One of them was married and his wife says it. His son (who's 16 now and was 14 back then) says it. He has never visited his dad's grave because he can't forgive him for leaving him and his mom behind. He didn't even shed a tear at his funeral. Now that breaks my heart and it makes me angry with the person who committed suicide. And it leaves me with absolutely zero respect for them.

So, I wasn't really planning on starting a discussion like this, when I mentioned the possibility of depression etc... And because I started it I feel I should end it. What I said was personally biased, because my grandfather committed suicide and left behind a big mess that was entirely his own fault and that my parents had to pick up and my devastated grandmother. Except for my grandmother, we were all left behind feeling rather angry. And that's all I feel to this day. Anger. This is why I may lack any understanding for it. No disrespect intended.

Can we all go back to Sparky please?