Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[TheLadyMore]

^^I think you fancy Kolya as well? Is it because he trigger Sparky?

[Falcon Horus]

Also I am writing a huge Kate part in my Sparky story you mind if I am done looking over it to make sure I keep her in character I will give you a cookie =D

You can always ask me to look it over for you... as far as everyone else is concerned I'm apparently the foremost expert on everything Heightmeyer related.

And thanks folks! Still trying to get used to the forum and everything!

Post more so that you can really join in, without having your posts moderated (it's a newbie-thing to allow the board admins to determine whether you are a real person or a bot).

I guess now should be the time that a certain fandom should start eating crow regarding comments made about a certain other character being too old for John.

Oopsies...

Re Halling, there's something that's been bugging me about Halling/Jinto. I've read in fandom that Jinto is Halling's child, yet I've not really seen anything on the show to support this theory. It did look a bit like they used the whanau approach to child rearing whilst on Atlantis, but if Jinto was really his son, wouldn't he have at least mentioned him (as is have any of you seen my son, did Michael turn him into a bug) during Kindred II?

I thought it was established in Hide and Seek that Jinto was Halling's son? Or was it never explicitly stated?

I'm in the process of collection information just to answer questions like these. Only just started so you'll have to be patient.

Would pulling out the crystals prevent incoming wormholes from connecting to the Atlantis gate, though? I'm not sure that would work. Of course, I'm no expert in how the gate works.

I don't think it will be enough... cause the DHD in Antarctica was bust as well when Carter and O'Neill were trapped there, and the gate was still operational otherwise a wormhole deviation hadn't been possible.

Also, the address isn't connected to the stargate but to the position of the planet within a system, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to pluck gates from planets in SG1 to use elsewhere. (though don't quote me on that - I would have to do a rewatch of SG1 to be sure)

SR, Eri, do either of you have any additional suggestions?

Season 4 - Doppelganger

As much as it pains me... you should watch this too, JT-2. Concerning the development on a Lemming-related character in Rising.

[Scary Kitty]

I don't think it will be enough... cause the DHD in Antarctica was bust as well when Carter and O'Neill were trapped there, and the gate was still operational otherwise a wormhole deviation hadn't been possible.

Also, the address isn't connected to the stargate but to the position of the planet within a system, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to pluck gates from planets in SG1 to use elsewhere. (though don't quote me on that - I would have to do a rewatch of SG1 to be sure)

*nods* That's what I figured.

Season 4 - Doppelganger

As much as it pains me... you should watch this too, JT-2. Concerning the development on a Lemming-related character in Rising.

*headdesk* I can't believe I forgot Doppelganger! I think I must've blocked it out because I'm still pissed at what they did to Kate.

*offers the Lemming a bowl of sugar as a peace offering*

[Southern Red]

Or a lobotomy....

So, question for the SGARising staff. I'm thinking I need to do a S4/S5 rewatch in preparation for this as I only have vague memories of most of those seasons. What episodes should I watch, or conversely, what episodes can I skip Trio & Brainstorm for the love of all things holy?

SK and FH covered it. Anything outside the main arcs isn't necessary.

[Scary Kitty]

SK and FH covered it. Anything outside the main arcs isn't necessary.

Just looking at the final count, there's quite a bit more unnecessary stuff in S5 than S4. This surprises me, and I'm not quite sure why.

[ShipperWriter]

Hey, on my iPod so just dropping a few lines:

On the subject of removing the control crystals, that really only has to do with dialing out. When they're removed from the DHD, you have to manually dial the Gate or, like Sam Carter did, build a dialing computer. You can still get incoming wormholes. I'm now curious, though. Because the Pegasus Gates have 8 chevron addresses, would that in any way affect being dialed in from a 7 chevron addy from the Milky Way?

Ok. Brain just exploded.

Ooh, and I got that full time school job I've been applying for since January! Normally scheduled life, here I come!

[Irish Eyes]

Just looking at the final count, there's quite a bit more unnecessary stuff in S5 than S4. This surprises me, and I'm not quite sure why.

I remember at the time season 4 just had a better flow (even though I hated what they were doing). I think the writers actually had to do some planning in that season because they were writing out Elizabeth and working around Rachel's pregnancy. Season 5 just sort of seemed like a hodge podge of stuff thrown together.

[mandogater]

It was made clear first in The Rising and later in H&S that Jinto is Halling's son. That, in my mind, made the Athosians a traditional society. Maybe everyone helps raise the kids, but the family units are intact. I think they just dropped him in Kindred which doesn't surprise me with these writers. Maybe he was "there" but not obvious, like Kanaan all of Teyla's life. LOL Just because we don't see a character, doesn't mean they are not there.

I think Jinto fell into one of those annoying plot holes that kept creeping on to the set.

[Scary Kitty]

Hey, on my iPod so just dropping a few lines:

On the subject of removing the control crystals, that really only has to do with dialing out. When they're removed from the DHD, you have to manually dial the Gate or, like Sam Carter did, build a dialing computer. You can still get incoming wormholes. I'm now curious, though. Because the Pegasus Gates have 8 chevron addresses, would that in any way affect being dialed in from a 7 chevron addy from the Milky Way?

Ok. Brain just exploded.

All Stargates, whether Milky Way, Pegasus, or from the seeder ships Destiny is following, have nine chevrons. So any of them can theoretically dial out or in with a 7, 8 or 9 symbol address. Whether or not they succeed depends on if there's enough power to actually make the connection.

Ooh, and I got that full time school job I've been applying for since January! Normally scheduled life, here I come!

Whoo hoo! Yay, job! Congratulations!

I remember at the time season 4 just had a better flow (even though I hated what they were doing). I think the writers actually had to do some planning in that season because they were writing out Elizabeth and working around Rachel's pregnancy. Season 5 just sort of seemed like a hodge podge of stuff thrown together.

That's got to be the explanation. S4 was definitely more arc-driven than S5.

Of course, our arcs for Atlantis Rising will be better.

[mandogater]

Hey, on my iPod so just dropping a few lines:

On the subject of removing the control crystals, that really only has to do with dialing out. When they're removed from the DHD, you have to manually dial the Gate or, like Sam Carter did, build a dialing computer. You can still get incoming wormholes. I'm now curious, though. Because the Pegasus Gates have 8 chevron addresses, would that in any way affect being dialed in from a 7 chevron addy from the Milky Way?

Ok. Brain just exploded.

Ooh, and I got that full time school job I've been applying for since January! Normally scheduled life, here I come!

Congrats on the jobs and getting to keep regular hours!!

[gateraid]

Would pulling out the crystals prevent incoming wormholes from connecting to the Atlantis gate, though? I'm not sure that would work. Of course, I'm no expert in how the gate works.

It's my understanding that an incoming wormhole isn't affected by power ie it doesn't matter if there is NO power in the gate or DHD, it will still establish a wormhole so long as there is enough space for a kawoosh, which is why burying the gate worked. However, they've screwed with that a few times - wormholes have established whilst the iris has been closed, which should either disintegrate the iris or nullify the connection

Funny thing is, there's a brief shot in Season 1's "Suspicion" of an Athosian who looks kinda sorta like Kanaan. It's not Patrick Sabongui (as far as I know), but the guy looks enough like PS that I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and think that he's just a younger Kanaan.

Spoiler:

And here's one of the publicity still of PS as Kanaan in "The Kindred, Part 1" (it's REALLY big)

Spoiler:

I'm not a fan of retconning, but it's actually plausible in this case. They look surprisingly similar. Plus, in that second one, it's new!Ashley from Sanctuary. It is her, right?

I'm thinking it was just a rumor.

Or a return for Parker Lewis Can't Lose

As far as we know, yeah, the Earth gate is still at Cheyenne Mountain. As for cutting power to the Atlantis gate, I suppose it could be done without pulling the plug on the ZPMs... don't want to accidentally drop the cloak and reveal Atlantis to an unsuspecting world, after all. Teehee.

As I say, they've fudged it a little. But presumably the power for the gate is somewhat isolated - they only need the ZPM for an eight chevron address. They managed an entire season by using generators, so presumably they'd have done the same from s2 onwards to conserve the ZPM? It's a guess at any rate. The SGC is either using its own generators, or using good old 3-phase power to run its gate.

Or a lobotomy....

So, question for the SGARising staff. I'm thinking I need to do a S4/S5 rewatch in preparation for this as I only have vague memories of most of those seasons. What episodes should I watch, or conversely, what episodes can I skip Trio & Brainstorm for the love of all things holy?

The lists have been pretty well covered by others. I only managed to get as far as The Queen on my recent rewatch. An interesting aside - John said in Whispers that Carson had been on R & R for six months, and Carson said he'd been in the pod for two. So six months between the end of The Seed and the start of Whispers, but two months from the end of Kindred II until the start of The Seed? No wonder people get confused.

You can always ask me to look it over for you... as far as everyone else is concerned I'm apparently the foremost expert on everything Heightmeyer related.



Post more so that you can really join in, without having your posts moderated (it's a newbie-thing to allow the board admins to determine whether you are a real person or a bot).



Oopsies...





I'm in the process of collection information just to answer questions like these. Only just started so you'll have to be patient.

That one I probably should have already known

I don't think it will be enough... cause the DHD in Antarctica was bust as well when Carter and O'Neill were trapped there, and the gate was still operational otherwise a wormhole deviation hadn't been possible.

Also, the address isn't connected to the stargate but to the position of the planet within a system, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to pluck gates from planets in SG1 to use elsewhere. (though don't quote me on that - I would have to do a rewatch of SG1 to be sure)

Precisely, which was why Zelenka was able to dial out from Atlantis from the 'void', and why Carter & McKay had to do some dohinking to get the gate to work again in Lifeline

Hey, on my iPod so just dropping a few lines:

On the subject of removing the control crystals, that really only has to do with dialing out. When they're removed from the DHD, you have to manually dial the Gate or, like Sam Carter did, build a dialing computer. You can still get incoming wormholes. I'm now curious, though. Because the Pegasus Gates have 8 chevron addresses, would that in any way affect being dialed in from a 7 chevron addy from the Milky Way?

Ok. Brain just exploded.

Ooh, and I got that full time school job I've been applying for since January! Normally scheduled life, here I come!

Plus normally scheduled money!!

I think Jinto fell into one of those annoying plot holes that kept creeping on to the set.

There must have been a time dilation field within that hole, as he reappears older in Homecoming.

All Stargates, whether Milky Way, Pegasus, or from the seeder ships Destiny is following, have nine chevrons. So any of them can theoretically dial out or in with a 7, 8 or 9 symbol address. Whether or not they succeed depends on if there's enough power to actually make the connection.

Agreed.

That's got to be the explanation. S4 was definitely more arc-driven than S5.

Pretty much. S4 = oh noes! Weir is a replicator, lets kill them all so she can't come back. s5 = oh ****! we don't have any villians, we'll have to actually write some character stories

[Southern Red]

Just looking at the final count, there's quite a bit more unnecessary stuff in S5 than S4. This surprises me, and I'm not quite sure why.

It almost seems like they ran out of ideas. *scratches head*

Hey, on my iPod so just dropping a few lines:

On the subject of removing the control crystals, that really only has to do with dialing out. When they're removed from the DHD, you have to manually dial the Gate or, like Sam Carter did, build a dialing computer. You can still get incoming wormholes. I'm now curious, though. Because the Pegasus Gates have 8 chevron addresses, would that in any way affect being dialed in from a 7 chevron addy from the Milky Way?

Ok. Brain just exploded.

Ooh, and I got that full time school job I've been applying for since January! Normally scheduled life, here I come!

You lost me at "removing the control crystals". I'm thankful for all you techie folks.

And super congrats on the job.

I remember at the time season 4 just had a better flow (even though I hated what they were doing). I think the writers actually had to do some planning in that season because they were writing out Elizabeth and working around Rachel's pregnancy. Season 5 just sort of seemed like a hodge podge of stuff thrown together.

*points to previous remarks* At this point they were throwing it all against the wall and nothing was sticking.

I think Jinto fell into one of those annoying plot holes that kept creeping on to the set.

Like on Days of Our Lives when someone goes upstairs in the Horton house and is never seen again. *waves to Nathan*

I'm not a fan of retconning, but it's actually plausible in this case. They look surprisingly similar. Plus, in that second one, it's new!Ashley from Sanctuary. It is her, right?

Good catch. That does look like her.

There must have been a time dilation field within that hole, as he reappears older in Homecoming.

I think that part is about right. If in The Rising Jinto was age 12-early teens, he would correctly be 17 in Homecoming.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

It's my understanding that an incoming wormhole isn't affected by power ie it doesn't matter if there is NO power in the gate or DHD, it will still establish a wormhole so long as there is enough space for a kawoosh, which is why burying the gate worked. However, they've screwed with that a few times - wormholes have established whilst the iris has been closed, which should either disintegrate the iris or nullify the connection

As I understand it, the surface of the iris (and the shield on the Atlantis gate) are just far away enough from the gate opening that it'll allow the puddle to form (useful so they can send communication signals through), but anyone trying to physically come through goes splat against the iris/shield.

I'm not a fan of retconning, but it's actually plausible in this case. They look surprisingly similar. Plus, in that second one, it's new!Ashley from Sanctuary. It is her, right?

I don't watch Sanctuary, so I wouldn't know.

As I say, they've fudged it a little. But presumably the power for the gate is somewhat isolated - they only need the ZPM for an eight chevron address. They managed an entire season by using generators, so presumably they'd have done the same from s2 onwards to conserve the ZPM? It's a guess at any rate. The SGC is either using its own generators, or using good old 3-phase power to run its gate.

Very possible.

The lists have been pretty well covered by others. I only managed to get as far as The Queen on my recent rewatch. An interesting aside - John said in Whispers that Carson had been on R & R for six months, and Carson said he'd been in the pod for two. So six months between the end of The Seed and the start of Whispers, but two months from the end of Kindred II until the start of The Seed? No wonder people get confused.

Trust me, that's not the only time I've found significant jumps in time between episodes. It's pretty much par for the course.

Pretty much. S4 = oh noes! Weir is a replicator, lets kill them all so she can't come back. s5 = oh ****! we don't have any villians, we'll have to actually write some character stories

And they still found that they couldn't do S5 without Weir anyway. They couldn't even do the yearly clip episode without her! That amuses me so much.

It almost seems like they ran out of ideas. *scratches head*

And yet, they left other promising ideas they had already introduced hanging without any resolution. *cough*Elizabeth*cough*

I think that part is about right. If in The Rising Jinto was age 12-early teens, he would correctly be 17 in Homecoming.

*nods* That's about the age I figured him for when he appears in Atlantis Rising.

[TheLadyMore]

And yet, they left other promising ideas they had already introduced hanging without any resolution. *cough*Elizabeth*cough*

Don't worry as I proposed to SR the writers of The Legacy had it covered. Liz is gonna fall fro the sky onto Kates replacement killing her on impact. I have a funny feeling some Lemming will have to do with it.

[Scary Kitty]

Don't worry as I proposed to SR the writers of The Legacy had it covered. Liz is gonna fall fro the sky onto Kates replacement killing her on impact. I have a funny feeling some Lemming will have to do with it.

*snerk*