Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[drewandian]

Eri LOVE the Elizabeth story!

[Probie]

Thanks everybody for your support. I'm sure everything will be fine.
Well, now a happy topic because I don' t want to be sad. I have a request. A stupid one of course because it's one of MY request.lol Is it possible to include a french in one episode during the season 6? Big role or small role. I don't care but just a french who stil alive at the end or a nice one (not like in SG1. Don't remember the epiosde but the guy was blond, weak and afraid of everything). It's an old frustration.lol

Why I did this request? It's because of Eri and her story. Excellent one by the way. Love the interction between Woolsey and Elizabeth.

[Fionnait]

I think seeing Liz and Teyla hang out would be cool. But I have no clue what the girl equivalent of beer and sports is.

Elizabeth has had a lot of stress... maybe Teyla is showing her how to meditate, but her kid interrupts?

As to Rodney, I remember his reaction in TMC and GITM. He was the first to warm up to Elizabeth. He so wanted her to be back, I feel he would be eager to have a good relationship once again with her.
Therefore I agree 100% with your idea.

Yeah, Rodney wears his heart on his sleeve when it comes to Elizabeth. I always really liked the Rodney/Elizabeth interactions.

The bolded jumped out at me. Since we're resurecting Elizabeth it would be appropriate to refer back to "This Mortal Coil", one of the episodes where a version of her died.

She didn't die. She was just deep frozen and is waiting to be rescued. Because all versions of Elizabeth have to be rescued.

Some things are universal. A lady almost killed me yesterday.

Spoiler:

We have this thing here called "turn right on red". I'm not sure you have it over there, but it means After coming to a full stop and looking both ways, if nothing is coming you can go right. But what a lot of people do is barely slow down. I've had people actually blow their horns at me for stopping. Anyway, this car whose driver was so tiny I thought the car was driving itself darted out in front of me and across 2 lanes of traffic. My brakes work fine.

OT

Spoiler:

Turn right on red has actually much history in Germany... It is indicated by little green arrows right next to the traffic light. We didn't originally have them in the western part, but when Germany was reunified, it was one of the few things that the west got from the east. So it's a little bit of German history.

Thanks everybody for your support. I'm sure everything will be fine.
Well, now a happy topic because I don' t want to be sad. I have a request. A stupid one of course because it's one of MY request.lol Is it possible to include a french in one episode during the season 6? Big role or small role. I don't care but just a french who stil alive at the end or a nice one (not like in SG1. Don't remember the epiosde but the guy was blond, weak and afraid of everything). It's an old frustration.lol

I think it's a good idea. We have so many different nationalities on the thread, why not make Atlantis more international.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Drivers out here in California are frakking CRAZY! Driving ten miles an hour slower than the speed limit in the fast lane and there's nothing ahead of them that would require them to slow down, not signaling when they're going to make a lane change, and of course, the traveling stop. ARGH!

Anyway, on to more fun stuff, like SS6. When did we move on to Found in Translation? Didn't drew say she had a few questions she wanted to ask about Quietus?

As to FiT, I love the idea of giving Woolsey some good moments with Elizabeth. Eri, your opening scene idea with the two of them is great! I can really see him wanting to reach out to her and help her back into the fold, because he's been the outsider before and he knows at least a little about what it must be like for her. And there's also the issue that maybe he's kinda sorta feeling some guilt about the whole Horizon attack plan from First Strike; he likely voted in favor of it along with the rest of the IOA and thus probably feels more responsible for what happened to her afterward.

Okay, to get us started we said this was to be a humor episode and I think we need that after all the heavy drama. Elizabeth is unsure of just where she fits in anymore. I can see her starting to act like the boss again and then stopping herself when she realizes she's not. We haven't talked much about Woolsey. I would imagine he'd have a big part in this one. Considering how kind and supportive he was to Ronon and Teyla in EatG, I can see him as being the same with her. He invites her into his quarters for wine and they talk. She feels more normal having a discussion about the city/what's happening/politics anything to normalize her. We may even want John to have a little eyebrow raise about her spending time with Dick. We also need to see the rest of the team and how they reach out to her. It could be amusing with Ronon's awkward attempts and Rodney making it all about himself. This is also a good time to insert some Teyla/Liz friendship and girl bonding. I think John would be the most difficult to adjust and may have to be nudged (probably by Teyla) in that direction. Elizabeth soaks up all the attempts to help from all the others but really needs more from John. The level of shippiness here has to be very subtle I think. We have to reestablish their friendship first.

Just my quick thoughts. Feel free to ignore, tear them apart or disagree.

I agree. We need friendship/reaching out-type moments in this one. Everyone's probably still feeling a little unsettled about what happened in Quietus and guilty over their actions toward Elizabeth making her feel so uncomfortable and how it contributed to the escalation of the lockdown incident. So lots of awkwardness!

The bolded jumped out at me. Since we're resurecting Elizabeth it would be appropriate to refer back to "This Mortal Coil", one of the episodes where a version of her died.

We've already thought of that; that'll be coming up in Episode 19, What Dreams May Come.

[SMB_BOOKS]

YAY - we've been merged! (I thought I felt something funny.....)

Eri - loved the FIT teaser. Made me even more excited for SS6 - I can't wait until the team is back together again! (Even if it's only in our hearts and our minds, I'll take it!).

[Eri13]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Drivers out here in California are frakking CRAZY! Driving ten miles an hour slower than the speed limit in the fast lane and there's nothing ahead of them that would require them to slow down, not signaling when they're going to make a lane change, and of course, the traveling stop. ARGH!

Anyway, on to more fun stuff, like SS6. When did we move on to Found in Translation? Didn't drew say she had a few questions she wanted to ask about Quietus?

As to FiT, I love the idea of giving Woolsey some good moments with Elizabeth. Eri, your opening scene idea with the two of them is great! I can really see him wanting to reach out to her and help her back into the fold, because he's been the outsider before and he knows at least a little about what it must be like for her. And there's also the issue that maybe he's kinda sorta feeling some guilt about the whole Horizon attack plan from First Strike; he likely voted in favor of it along with the rest of the IOA and thus probably feels more responsible for what happened to her afterward.

I agree. We need friendship/reaching out-type moments in this one. Everyone's probably still feeling a little unsettled about what happened in Quietus and guilty over their actions toward Elizabeth making her feel so uncomfortable and how it contributed to the escalation of the lockdown incident. So lots of awkwardness!

We've already thought of that; that'll be coming up in Episode 19, What Dreams May Come.

Drew hadn't posted anything, so when's she's ready she can, but I think we've hung on Quietus long enough. We've got a couple of other episodes coming up that haven't had as much discussion as the last three have already had.

For FIT, the scene after the one I posted actually starts off with John piloting the jumper across the world and musing on Elizabeth and trying to figure out how to get her back into the swing of things. He's unsure of how to do that. One thing Elizabeth will notice will be his attitude and how he's a little more gruff in how he talks to people (remember, she's still used to a John who's not quite as affected by loss). Other changes will be observed by her as well.

While I'm don't know if mani-pedis exactly fit canon Atlantis *LOL*, perhaps we have Teyla and Elizabeth thrown together partway through the adventure and this gives them time to discuss Teyla's evolution and Elizabeth's concerns.

The way I saw this episode was that they would be off-world essentially the whole time, trying to figure out the problem with these smurf people. I think we had said something about marching to a temple, they being threatened by a monster or energy or volcano or something? Standard off-world Atlantis fare.

Should we take Elizabeth's re-integration slow? Like, here we spend time with just our principles (Ronon, Teyla, John, Rodney) and do the same with the next episode (Run Through the Jungle) and then when we get into "A Day in the Life of Rodney McKay" and "Blitzkrieg" we expand it more into exposition on her position/power in Atlantis. Like how much authority she should have, etc.

[Scary Kitty]

Drew hadn't posted anything, so when's she's ready she can, but I think we've hung on Quietus long enough. We've got a couple of other episodes coming up that haven't had as much discussion as the last three have already had.

Sounds good.

For FIT, the scene after the one I posted actually starts off with John piloting the jumper across the world and musing on Elizabeth and trying to figure out how to get her back into the swing of things. He's unsure of how to do that. One thing Elizabeth will notice will be his attitude and how he's a little more gruff in how he talks to people (remember, she's still used to a John who's not quite as affected by loss). Other changes will be observed by her as well.

While I'm don't know if mani-pedis exactly fit canon Atlantis *LOL*, perhaps we have Teyla and Elizabeth thrown together partway through the adventure and this gives them time to discuss Teyla's evolution and Elizabeth's concerns.

I think that might be a good opportunity for Elizabeth to try to ask about John's "new" attitude. This could end up adding to the awkwardness of the situation, as she's still getting used to the fact that she remembers everybody one way, but they're suddenly (to her) very different, whereas Teyla's uncertain because she's got to remember that Elizabeth has missed so much and doesn't know all these things. Maybe Teyla had suspected for a while before FS/Adrift/Lifeline that there might be something growing between John and Elizabeth (much like how Elizabeth had suspected there was something going on between Teyla and Kanaan, as FRANibeth revealed in GitM), and now Teyla's not sure what to tell Elizabeth for fear of upsetting the rebuilding of the relationship between Elizabeth and John.

The way I saw this episode was that they would be off-world essentially the whole time, trying to figure out the problem with these smurf people. I think we had said something about marching to a temple, they being threatened by a monster or energy or volcano or something? Standard off-world Atlantis fare.

Maybe a slog through a mud pit? Or is that too crackish?

Should we take Elizabeth's re-integration slow? Like, here we spend time with just our principles (Ronon, Teyla, John, Rodney) and do the same with the next episode (Run Through the Jungle) and then when we get into "A Day in the Life of Rodney McKay" and "Blitzkrieg" we expand it more into exposition on her position/power in Atlantis. Like how much authority she should have, etc.

I think taking it slow is a good idea; we'll need indicators in all these episodes of the passage of time since PM/Quietus so readers know how long it's been since her rescue. Also, somewhere in all this, we're going to need to know about Elizabeth's status with regards to Earth. Is she allowed to return to Earth? Does her mother/other family know that she's alive and has been rescued? If the answer is yes, we probably ought to have her return to Earth for a little while; it would be rather unusual if she was known to have been rescued after being MIA/POW for nearly three years and yet didn't return home for the obligatory familial visit. It could simply be an after-the-fact reference to a visit; she could have gone back to Earth after Quietus and FiT might take place a month or so later (to account for travel time), for example.

[nephtys59]

I think taking it slow is a good idea; we'll need indicators in all these episodes of the passage of time since PM/Quietus so readers know how long it's been since her rescue. Also, somewhere in all this, we're going to need to know about Elizabeth's status with regards to Earth. Is she allowed to return to Earth? Does her mother/other family know that she's alive and has been rescued? If the answer is yes, we probably ought to have her return to Earth for a little while; it would be rather unusual if she was known to have been rescued after being MIA/POW for nearly three years and yet didn't return home for the obligatory familial visit. It could simply be an after-the-fact reference to a visit; she could have gone back to Earth after Quietus and FiT might take place a month or so later (to account for travel time), for example.

Knowing the IOA, I think that -if Elizabeth was back to Earth- they wouldn't send her back to Atlantis so eagerly, considering what happened in Quietus. If we do that, we have to think about a believable reason to allow her back.

[Scary Kitty]

Knowing the IOA, I think that -if Elizabeth was back to Earth- they wouldn't send her back to Atlantis so eagerly, considering what happened in Quietus. If we do that, we have to think about a believable reason to allow her back.

Well, the idea is that at the end of Quietus, Elizabeth won't have any of the neutronium-based mechanical nanites anymore. She'll only have the organic nanites that are made from her own genetic material, so while she will still be able to interface with some Ancient technology like someone with the ATA gene, she'll no longer be capable of doing anything on the level of what she did in Quietus, and thus everyone from McKay and Carter to Keller and Beckett will rule that she's no longer a threat to Atlantis. Since there's already precedent for allowing Weir to remain on Atlantis with inactive nanites following The Real World, as well as allowing Jeannie Miller to continue her normal life on Earth after Miller's Crossing, there's no way the IOA can justify keeping Elizabeth from returning to Atlantis without looking like a bunch of hypocrites, and they know it. It's all about politics and not losing face.

[nephtys59]

Since there's already precedent for allowing Weir to remain on Atlantis with inactive nanites following The Real World, as well as allowing Jeannie Miller to continue her normal life on Earth after Miller's Crossing, there's no way the IOA can justify keeping Elizabeth from returning to Atlantis without looking like a bunch of hypocrites, and they know it. It's all about politics and not losing face.

That was different. Elizabeth was still the leader of Atlantis.
But now the leader is Woolsey and I can't see Earth removing him from his position to give leadership back to Elizabeth.
So, why send her back? What for? Just for negotiations/translations? Mmm ... I'm very doubtful about that.
Too easy.
I'm all for the "let's not send Elizabeth back to Earth" solution.

[Southern Red]

Just for info and SS6 planning for those who are writing Teyla oriented stories, it looks like from this con report that Rachel was very pleased with Teyla's story. Like us, she wanted more about her people. Sounds like we're on the same page with her at least. And she also wasn't happy to lose Carson and Elizabeth.

[Scary Kitty]

That was different. Elizabeth was still the leader of Atlantis.
But now the leader is Woolsey and I can't see Earth removing him from his position to give leadership back to Elizabeth.
So, why send her back? What for? Just for negotiations/translations? Mmm ... I'm very doubtful about that.
Too easy.
I'm all for the "let's not send Elizabeth back to Earth" solution.

I think you're misunderstanding me here. None of us is suggesting that the IOA give leadership back to Elizabeth. We all thought she was wasted in that position. And frankly, after the way they've screwed with her in the past, I don't think she'd want the job back even if they offered it to her.

As for why she'd be allowed to go back to Atlantis? Hey, if the Genii won't deal with anyone else but her, they're going to have to let her go back, otherwise the Coalition falls apart, and they can't have that. There's also the issue of her missing memories of what happened to her following her capture. If the best chance for her to regain those memories is in Atlantis (and the IOA will want her to remember because they want that information), then they'll let her go back. They won't like it, but they won't have a choice.

[Southern Red]

Hey we passed 95000 posts!

[Eri13]

That was different. Elizabeth was still the leader of Atlantis.
But now the leader is Woolsey and I can't see Earth removing him from his position to give leadership back to Elizabeth.
So, why send her back? What for? Just for negotiations/translations? Mmm ... I'm very doubtful about that.
Too easy. I'm all for the "let's not send Elizabeth back to Earth" solution.

I think sending her back to Earth is to reunite her with her family and friends. To let her see her Mom again and stuff. As a visit.

But if we're going to question why send her back, we have to ask the bigger question of 'why keep her?' If she's considered a threat at all, just because she's on Atlantis and hasn't walked through the gate really doesn't mean anything. If the SGC/IOA regard her as a danger, she'll be forced to return to Earth whether she or anybody else likes it or not. I think it's more an issue of whether the IOA considers her dangerous at all or not.

We're, of course, asserting she is no longer a threat, which means the IOA really has no call to keep her on Earth any more than they have to force her to leave Atlantis. And based on Elizabeth's experience, knowledge of Pegasus/Ancient, and her ties to the SGA Expedition, she is a much more valuable asset to the Atlantis expedition than anywhere else.

I'm breaking my work rule *runs out of forum*

[Scary Kitty]

Just for info and SS6 planning for those who are writing Teyla oriented stories, it looks like from this con report that Rachel was very pleased with Teyla's story. Like us, she wanted more about her people. Sounds like we're on the same page with her at least. And she also wasn't happy to lose Carson and Elizabeth.

See? We're just giving Rachel what she wanted to see all along.

And hey, we've crossed 95,000 posts!