Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

*sneaks in*

Another sig.
Remnants this time.

http://img5.myimg.de/SparkyCare3dfba.jpg

*runs away*

You come back here for your hug. Your art is awesome.

Oooh, I can't wait.

I'll go submit prompts somethime tomorrow or Tuesday.



Hee! These are awesome as always, gateraid.

Okay, and a question because I haven't seen Outcast and I think it's answered there -- what happened to John's mother?

JM reported on his blog that a scene was cut out of Remnants about John.

Spoiler:

Supposedly part of his guilt and self flagellation had to do with his mother.

That's all we know.

And I was disgusted for all 5 seasons at the lack of backstory and emphasis on John. He's the lead character for God's sake. He should have had several stories mostly about him every season.

[Scary Kitty]

Okay, and a question because I haven't seen Outcast and I think it's answered there -- what happened to John's mother?

John's mother wasn't mentioned at all in Outcast; most of us speculated that she had died a long time ago. And SR mentioned the bit in Mallozzi's blog about the reference in Remnants that had been cut from the script.

And I was disgusted for all 5 seasons at the lack of backstory and emphasis on John. He's the lead character for God's sake. He should have had several stories mostly about him every season.

Exactly! John's obviously supposed to be the lead, as he's played by the top-billed actor on the cast. Yet we still know next to nothing about him, his so-called focus episodes have ended up being overwhelmed by unrelated stories and more about the other characters. What the hell is up with that?

[Irish Eyes]

I finally got over my doubt and insecurity and watched GitM... Really wasn't looking forward to the demise of Liz and damn... I cried my eyes out

People who still deny sparky after this episode are either blind or stupid!

You should go read the GitM general discussion thread. There are some awesome reviews in there by non-Sparky shippers who totally agree after that episode that there was something between J/E.

[Scary Kitty]

You should go read the GitM general discussion thread. There are some awesome reviews in there by non-Sparky shippers who totally agree after that episode that there was something between J/E.

I second that. As much as GitM made all of us grind our teeth and breathe fire, it also gave us some absolutely juicy Sparky moments that we've been feasting on ever since. And if the non-shippers can see it too... well, that just says something about the power of Sparky.

[Ruined_puzzle]

I was browsing the Atlantis gallery and found this one of sparky. It's a new one because I remember thinking back when they came out that I wanted them to be closer and hey look there was one were they actually are. This made me so happy.



Also sparky is still the only kiss in the gallery. sparky = teh canon. Or at least someone at sci-fi likes them because they are pictures of teh mouthsmash out there, they just chose no to put them in the gallery.

[Scary Kitty]

I was browsing the Atlantis gallery and found this one of sparky. It's a new one because I remember thinking back when they came out that I wanted them to be closer and hey look there was one were they actually are. This made me so happy.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...r/sparky-1.jpg

*goes to look* Oooh, there's a lot of new ones we haven't seen before! Darn, I wish they were bigger.

Also sparky is still the only kiss in the gallery. sparky = teh canon. Or at least someone at sci-fi likes them because they are pictures of teh mouthsmash out there, they just chose no to put them in the gallery.

See? 'Sparky is on screen, therefore it is canon' applies to our computer screens just as much as our TV screens.

[gateraid]

Today's installment

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

:keller: What's going on? Kate was late for work, so they called me.
Uh, nothing. The alarm clock got, uh, broken. I thought she needed a lie in
:keller: Broken? Hey, what were you doing in here? The door was locked. I had to use the medical override to get in. And there was a sock on the door too

Spoiler:

I told you not to touch that (poor *******, he helps her and she thinks he's a creep)
:keller: Whoa. It was really creepy. For a moment, I thought everyone hated me and that I was completely incompetent. And that I had feelings for Rodney
ME?!
Actually, you have to fall asleep for it to kick in. That stuff is actually true

Spoiler:

I'll send a jumper back for you two. If I can be bothered

Spoiler:

I see now why you're still a major. You're supposed to looking for Atlantis, not girlsgonewild.com

Spoiler:

There's a perfectly logical explanation for it Rodney. Tell him John
Right. When we beamed back from the Deadalus, Hermoid must've miscalculated, and beamed us into the storage closet. An easy mistake
But why were you naked?
Well, somehow our clothes didn't beam down with us
Hermoid must've been having a really bad day. He's not as smart as you, after all
You got that right! But why was John on top of you?
It was really cold in there, and he was trying to warm me up. You know, with body heat
Oh, that makes sense. But what was all that noise?
...................

[Flowerbud]

Today's installment

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]7724[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

:keller: What's going on? Kate was late for work, so they called me.
Uh, nothing. The alarm clock got, uh, broken. I thought she needed a lie in
:keller: Broken? Hey, what were you doing in here? The door was locked. I had to use the medical override to get in. And there was a sock on the door too

[ATTACH]7725[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

I told you not to touch that (poor *******, he helps her and she thinks he's a creep)
:keller: Whoa. It was really creepy. For a moment, I thought everyone hated me and that I was completely incompetent. And that I had feelings for Rodney
ME?!
Actually, you have to fall asleep for it to kick in. That stuff is actually true

[ATTACH]7726[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

I'll send a jumper back for you two. If I can be bothered

[ATTACH]7727[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

I see now why you're still a major. You're supposed to looking for Atlantis, not girlsgonewild.com

[ATTACH]7728[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

There's a perfectly logical explanation for it Rodney. Tell him John
Right. When we beamed back from the Deadalus, Hermoid must've miscalculated, and beamed us into the storage closet. An easy mistake
But why were you naked?
Well, somehow our clothes didn't beam down with us
Hermoid must've been having a really bad day. He's not as smart as you, after all
You got that right! But why was John on top of you?
It was really cold in there, and he was trying to warm me up. You know, with body heat
Oh, that makes sense. But what was all that noise?
...................

Hilarious! I especially liked the last one.

[Luciana]

You come back here for your hug. Your art is awesome.

[KrisRussel]

Today's installment

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]7724[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

:keller: What's going on? Kate was late for work, so they called me.
Uh, nothing. The alarm clock got, uh, broken. I thought she needed a lie in
:keller: Broken? Hey, what were you doing in here? The door was locked. I had to use the medical override to get in. And there was a sock on the door too

[ATTACH]7725[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

I told you not to touch that (poor *******, he helps her and she thinks he's a creep)
:keller: Whoa. It was really creepy. For a moment, I thought everyone hated me and that I was completely incompetent. And that I had feelings for Rodney
ME?!
Actually, you have to fall asleep for it to kick in. That stuff is actually true

[ATTACH]7726[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

I'll send a jumper back for you two. If I can be bothered

[ATTACH]7727[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

I see now why you're still a major. You're supposed to looking for Atlantis, not girlsgonewild.com

[ATTACH]7728[/ATTACH]

Spoiler:

There's a perfectly logical explanation for it Rodney. Tell him John
Right. When we beamed back from the Deadalus, Hermoid must've miscalculated, and beamed us into the storage closet. An easy mistake
But why were you naked?
Well, somehow our clothes didn't beam down with us
Hermoid must've been having a really bad day. He's not as smart as you, after all
You got that right! But why was John on top of you?
It was really cold in there, and he was trying to warm me up. You know, with body heat
Oh, that makes sense. But what was all that noise?
...................

*dies laughing with the last one*
OMG... It's too hilarious

[Southern Red]

I was browsing the Atlantis gallery and found this one of sparky. It's a new one because I remember thinking back when they came out that I wanted them to be closer and hey look there was one were they actually are. This made me so happy.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...r/sparky-1.jpg

Also sparky is still the only kiss in the gallery. sparky = teh canon. Or at least someone at sci-fi likes them because they are pictures of teh mouthsmash out there, they just chose no to put them in the gallery.

So where is his hand? Is that why he's smiling and she looks like she's about to raise an eyebrow? Inquiring minds in the gutter want to know.

[Luciana]

I felt so very inspired by Anunas Vegas fic I read today.

[Reiko]

I was browsing the Atlantis gallery and found this one of sparky. It's a new one because I remember thinking back when they came out that I wanted them to be closer and hey look there was one were they actually are. This made me so happy.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...r/sparky-1.jpg

Why have a never seen this before! *is happy for new pic*

Great art Luci and captions gateraid. Now I have to go take finals.

[Luciana]

Walli turned into a sig.




Snurchable.

[Eri13]

I must have missed the Phantoms questions My response to that ep is: outstanding performance by PM (I forgot that one in his top 5 Reiko, but in terms of acting I think it is his best).

While I hate backstory in general (I've always thought it is a cheat's way of telling a story) this ep was done really well. Sometimes I tend to forget about it because it is standalone, rather than part of an arc.

Most other points have been covered more eloquently than anything I could have written


TRI/II

It seems like an ep that if TPTW could go back and do again, they would. After all, we see the ancients (the focus of a good number of seasons on SG1, let alone Atlantis) for what seems like a few minutes, only to have them killed off screen by the replicators (oh the irony in that ). As a sidenote, the woman that played the rep Capt looks a lot like the woman who played the young Linea (the Destroyer of Worlds) back in early SG1. She delivered the same quality performance there.

In a perfect world, the ancients would have had an ep to themselves, whether that be in helping them fix their ship, or them coming to Atlantis and discovering our 'poor treatment' of their former home, or some other reason.

I've always found TRI slow, but maybe that stems from too many WTF moments?

* Elizabeth (a leading negotiator on earth) not being involved in the discussion with the ancients

* Rodney being the one to point ^ out

* John not being concerned about Elizabeth (not to mention her situation to begin with), although I completely understand the reasons for sending Carson instead of John (teh ship). But Carson and Rodney have actually known Elizabeth for longer than John, and equally they should know what is OOC for her too

*the SGC's apparent abandoning of Atlantis. Why did we not really hear of anything until it was attacked?

*why did we not see part of an ep devoted to their new lives (ie how they don't really make them as happy, or how they find it hard to relate to their new friends)

* O'Neill stays in Atlantis? Really? The head of Homeworld security? He may as well have tested the gate bridge. And don't get me started on his only being a two-star and holding that position. Homeworld should be a four-star position, and have a place on the Joint Chiefs at the very least.

* jeepers, SGA-1 did seem to escape the SGC easily

*Elizabeth has a frakking GUN, with no reservations AT ALL? Whatever

*I agree the windback is a bit of a cop out, but in the context of the series it is okay. It worked here, and they only did it once.

* General O'Niells underwater scenes dragged on too long. I liked them, but we all knew he wasn't going to die on SGA. Endlessly tortured perhaps, but not die. Plus some of you would have liked to see JF swimming instead. I would have settled for TH or RL (they'd have had to use a really strong adhesive for teh wig) but whatever floats your boat.

And on with the pics

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]7689[/ATTACH]
I think being here devalues your position. After all, you are smarter than Rodney, and commander of Earth's most sophisticated ship, yet you are manning a position that can be filled by a Lt.
Dr Weir never felt she had to do that
I know, but I get to fire the weapon, so it's all good

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]7690[/ATTACH]
:keller: Why yes, I can see replicators from my house

[ATTACH]7691[/ATTACH]
OMG, we're doomed

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]7692[/ATTACH]
Why are you so covered up? Now I don't have so much to look at when Rodney is talking
Oh put it back in your pants flyboy. Some of us have important stuff to do

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]7693[/ATTACH]
Why yes you are an Elizabeth substitute, but this is AU, so it doesn't matter.

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]7694[/ATTACH]
You don't want to get into a p***ing match with me Colonel. My ship is MUCH bigger than yours. My ship pwns your ship. Your ship is so is so pathetic it has to park inside of my ship so it doesn't get hurt.

I was asking where you were when I posted the Phantom questions!

Agree with the bolded part too. As much fuss as Brad Wright/Rob Cooper made at the beginning of Atlantis that Weir would never carry a gun, no one batted an eyelash at her ability to do so in 'TRI/II'.

Lol, look at Lizzie screaming at him!

I LOVE THAT PART.

OMG, Shep just gave Rodney a Gibbs headslap! *dies laughing*

Really? I so need to go back and watch that!

I finally got over my doubt and insecurity and watched GitM... Really wasn't looking forward to the demise of Liz and damn... I cried my eyes out

Spoiler:

There were tears in my eyes when the replicators and Franibeth were walking towards the gate, but when she walked to it alone and turned around to look at John one final time, I felt my heart break and the waterworks broke lose
But what really did it was John's face after the gate shuts down. OMG... He looks so incredibly sad and heart broken and alone and ready to start crying and... I just wanted to wrap my arms around him and comfort him... The man really looked like he needed a comforting hug.
What I did like about the episode: McKays guilt about re-activating the nanites. We always focus on how guilty John must be feeling after leaving her behind on Asuran, but we forget that it all started with Rodney activating those nanites in the first place... I honestly never considered how guilty he must be feeling.
What I also loved: the fact that when McKay gave Liz the ability to speak through the computer, the first person she asked about was John... aaww, I grinned at that

People who still deny sparky after this episode are either blind or stupid!

Spoiler:

Also what I don't believe is that Liz's friends (and especially John and Rodney) would just give up on her. They know there is a possibility to create flesh and blood bodies and I really think that in their spare time, they would be working on that to try and get her back.

I don't think I'm ever going to watch it again, it left me heart broken, without hope and depressed for the rest of the day...

I actually enjoyed GITM more than I hated it--I don't blame the writer in general, actually, because the writer was Carl Binder, who is one of our Sparky champions.

Spoiler:

I doubt we would have gotten as much of the Sparkiness (the line "what if one of them wanted to stay?" is totally Binder-to-Sparky-fan-luff) if anyone else had written it. And Binder gives JF a lot to work with in the unspeaking moments as well. I presume I have to give credit to the directors, too, for knowing where to place Joe in relation to Franibeth as well.

I absolutely loathe the ending--but I have a hard time blaming just Binder for it. I don't know whose brainchild it was, if it was that way before or after Torri turned it down, etc. At least he didn't just kill her, zap her into a thousand replicator bits. Then I would have blamed him. While I hate the sacrificial lamb--again--it does parallel John's sacrificial tendencies, and if the writers don't get foolish and try and hook John up in the movie, then canon-wise she's out there for him to save at any point in time. Of course in fanon that's already been done.

My feeling is, just based on how Elizabeth has been treated overall, there was no chance at a happy ending--the best we could have gotten, of course, being ascension. I don't know why they didn't consider it, but then, I don't know why they axed Elizabeth/Torri in the first place, so...

I accepted Michelle Morgan because she did a pretty good job--and for me, I'm a fan of Elizabeth as much as I'm a fan of Torri. While my number one scenario would be to have Torri back as Elizabeth, I'm amenable to anyone so long as Elizabeth comes back.

But yeah--it's d/led on my iPod, but I have a hard time seeing myself watching it anytime soon. While, in hindsight, the effect is better with the way John ended up in S5, being alone and obviously shaken (perhaps broken) by what happened to Elizabeth--GITM is one of those episodes that completely reinforces the reasons for his despair--it's still not an episode I take easily. Thankful for how much more Sparky it was than I was expecting (to the point, as pointed out, that non-shippers basically went 'yeah, it's totally there') but still brokenhearted with the way my favorite character was treated overall.

I like the other solutions posed to the problem too, that it was AU or not the 'real thing'. Keep 'em coming.

The Return part I questions coming today...

The Return part II questions coming tomorrow...

Echoes coming SOON!

(I watched it again last night for fun. Will probably watch it one more time before the recap, just...cuz. )