GateWorld's Vision Statement .Suggestions welcome

[Sela]

I am so glad to hear that Darren is at least attempting to do something about the overwhelming negativity (and that is the right word) that GW has spiraled down into. While I have spent less time here over the last year or so, I am willing to give it a shot with the new rules.

I've read through the Vision Statement and agree with the slant he's taking in trying to bring the site back into a more fan friendly atmosphere with the participants showing basic human kindness and respect to each other. That doesn't mean you can't voice an opinion on the shows that is in the negative but the way you do it has to show respect for your fellow posters. That has been what has been sorely lacking at GW for a long time - respect of other people and their opinions. While I agree with Marimba's statement that behind every post there is a poster who is a real person, there are longtime bullies on GW who only seem to want to press this point when someone calls them on their bully-ing. Online personas are one thing, we all have them to a certain extent, but if part of your persona is to be a bully on-line then quite frankly, I wouldn't care to get to know you offline no matter how nice you're suppose to be in "real life". It takes so little to be nice/respectful without being Polliannish and I for one am glad to hear that it's coming back into style on GW.

Way to go Darren!

[dragongirl]

Not everyone else in the thread is going to agree that everything about Stargate is craptacular/OMG SQUEEE!!!!. One POV is not neccesarily anothers, for example, Rod might say "Blimey did you see what Keller did with that scalpel, she nearly cut Sheppard's finger off, I can't stand her why don't they ship her back to Earth she's incompetent. Jane might say "Pity she didn't try and cut his head off, Sheppard's a pratt, where on Earth did she go to medical school, Disneyland?" Freddie might say "I like Keller, but if she did that in real life she'd be struck off, do they have medical advisors on the show?". The core of the discussion is in agreement, Keller's lack of medical skills (in their opinions) but they all have other opinions which the others don't agree with.

But there is still an over all base that is the same (the writers screwed up) but what about the person that comes in and say I love Keller (why do so many people do that) and they don't agree with a lot of what the others are saying they are going to feel like an outsider and they wont post where if that person goes to a thread where everyone else Loves Keller and they can all sit around and talk about why they all like her (dispite the writers mistakes)

why can't you have that with everyone? If all people post respectfully, then you'll find support even from fans who don't agree with you. I know that I've got very excited for my shipper friends in the past because I've seen stuff in an episode that I know they'll like.

I have NEVER attacked someone personally but I can't stop others from doing that. I can't go in and change what ______ said to me or to others. I will say that I have done that and in the case of one or two people I still do that there are a couple people who are on an opposing ship that post in a thread I post in and we are always respectful to each other and we have discussions back and forth. I have no problem with it but when someone attacks someone personally not much is done to stop it. I mean you can report it but I see very little action that that other than a MOD saying please don't make personal attacks. The person might no longer make direct attacks but they are still there and they get very rude in posting after that so I just ignore them (not that that happens all that often I have only ignored 2 people)

[Lady eliza]

What about the elizabeth weir/john sheppard relationship thread? Is that staying put? It's for Atlantis too.

[Reiko]

But I don't love everything there is about it. Therefore, I will often point out the flaws of the show in discussion. Many members on this forum view this as somehow unacceptable and will give me grief for it every chance they get, as if my way of analyzing the show is bad.

I share the same experience that FAII has noted in this post. For awhile, mostly back during Atlantis' Season 4, I stayed out of a lot of general discussion threads and refrained from creating discussion threads due to the fact that those posts/discussions often centered around an analysis and how the production could have made it better. And this seemed to have prompted some people to say things like the aforementioned in one of my previous posts, "don't be so negative" or "there's no room for you here anymore if you don't like the show."

This created problems for me as these so-called "negative" threads can create some great discussion. But honestly, I was tired of being labeled and I didn't return to the general discussion threads because of it.

But this new positive side will come at the cost of more censoring of negative opinions, which is my point.

Whether you intend it or not. I understand that the mods definately don't want this to happen, and want to reassure us that it won't happen, but with this new emphasis with this policy it seem that it will happen with an unknown degree. I know the mods don't want that, but let's just say the the positivity aspects being encouraged and the negativity aspects being cut back on is doing this.

Disgruntled fans are still fans - they're here because they care, not because they need to declare to the world their hatred of bebop or Robert C Cooper.

Just like others and Pitry here have mentioned, many of the fans here that are branded "negative" are still fans, here because we still care enough and find GW a worthy place to hang out with friends. We may be considered heretical because we don't follow every direction TPTB takes, but we're still fans, and we enjoyed the show in the past or are still looking for remnants of what it used to be. We're here to discuss why we don't like the new changes, not just stomp around and say "That episode sucked."

I am one of those fans of previous seasons. I gave season four a chance, but I still think what tptb did was wrong. Does this no longer make me a fan? No, we are still fans; we are just not fans of the new seasons.

[Crazedwraith]

A Thought about SGU: You say the SGU folder will only be for fans of SGU. How can you be a fan of something that hasn't even aired yet? Or hasn't been cast for the most part?

Following that logic, why is that folder even open yet?

[Laura Dove]

Okay, the thread is moving to fast for me to reply to each interesting point, but you mods seriously need to discuss among yourselves about what you wish for the future. I'm not talking about the exact phrasing of the Vision Statement, but the general goal you want to achieve. More precisely, GateGipsy and Madeleine_W, you are contradicting each other while replying to the same post of mine. (Do I need to say I find GateGipsy's vision of the GW forums much more welcoming than Madeleine_W's?)

So will, or won't, people who dislike certain aspects of the show be supposed to just shut up and swallow constant praise of these aspects? That silenced displeasure, not allowed to express itself anywhere, will build a growing unease inside the person, that may ultimately lead them to not enjoy Stargate at all.

Anyway, a point I think you should emphasise, even within the current rules, is that people need to use the "report" feature when confronted with bullying, and NEVER reply directly, even if they feel able to handle it. Some people (myself included) hate the idea of "crying out for mum", but it would help lower the ambient aggressiveness.

[Falcon Horus]

I read all the way through, even though I was supposed to be working on my Indesign exam (creating an E-folder for the Titanic) and I quoted some posts along the way - I sincerely hope I can still remember why.

First of all, I'm offended by the wording... as a branded anti anyway.

Negativity is not the sole responsible party here, as long as we are clear on that! Cause people make it out to be...

This is the biggest and best-known Stargate FAN site on the net. If people can't say here that they like the show, wouldn't that be a little silly?

Oh shoot... Oh, I remember again...

Imagine the following -> people telling other people that at GW negative opinions need a constructive underlaying reason while positivity can bloom like it has never before. Double standards at play, if you will.

You know, hypothetically speaking...

I don't find that a particularly good way of promoting a website/forum. But that's just me.

But who does it hurt? How does it damage GW?

Speaking of a 'poor choice of wording'...

Well that's what this is all about. We don't want intolerance anymore! We want a way of combating intolerance! This thread is your chance to help us do that.

Err hello... dear mods and moddesses (it's a word, I swear!),

remember this thread -> What causes intolerance of diverse SGA opinions?

I searched for it but I'm quite sure it had disappeared in the depths of GW. As far as I know people posted their opinion on the matter and then went back to do what they had been doing all along, and nothing changed.

What makes you confident, this new Vision-thing will be any different?

We also discussed making it compulsory for everyone to start every post with Cliff Simon is a sex god, which Shipper was rather in favour of, but we haven't decided on that one yet.

I've seen the man up close and personal, I wouldn't object.

Oh, that's it already... I thought I had more. *shrug*

[Fabrisse]

You do understand that Television Without Pity is a tightly moderated board which has never permitted disrespect toward other posters?

It's offensive that you would use that site as an example of a place where people are "allowed to diss to their hearts content."

[airrick]

1 - I spent a lot of time around the web and most forums are filled with a lot of conspiracy theory stuff about the shows/producers/directors/writers/actors and thats really part of the purpose of the forums, honestly otherwise all you get is fluff, no real conversations. I am not saying that everyone should be out there attacking the show, but challenging some of the formula's, addressing some concerns and questioning the decisions shouldnt be choked off. Once you start diving into any kind of censorship its a tricky situation, and when the people posting start walking on thin ice all the time places tend to get boring.

2 - I am all for pushing members to post better topics, more concise opinions etc. however I notice that these forums are pretty international. Its really hard to expect everyone from around the world to know whats considered appropriate manners for everyone else. This is a big problem with many multi-cultural websites. Some things that are considered funny and acceptable in another country might not be where I live. So how do you figure that out? You make the mistake, youre banned or your thread is removed because of a misunderstanding? How often will something like that happen?

3 - More people are against change than for it when it comes to websites. The functionality and cosmetics of the website are always up for debate. "
"I liked it better when it was this color!" "
"I preferred it when you could do this ____!"
You get what I am saying, therefore changing anything is going to be you do it and dont listen to what anyone has to say OR you take into consideration the people using your website and deal with a thousand nit picking posters.. your call.

I would say that from an administrative standpoint its always easier to just go with what you and your associates decided upon. Easier to work with a small group that can come together, get the job done and call it a day.
However, being someone from both sides of the neighborhood I know how it feels to be JUST a poster or JUST a member. Although we might not always get along with each other, do exactly what we are suppose to do we still contribute to the traffic that comes to the site. As tiny as one person may or may not be they are still important to the community and the people contributing.

Its horrible when people say they are leaving because they feel its to negative, but if those people were still posting positive threads then the balance wouldnt be out of.

Its a 2 way street, if the positive people bail because they dont like ANY negative threads then of course things will get MORE negative. The solution is for the positive posters to keep doing what they are doing and not leave because someone doesnt like their favorite character.

Most of us are adults and in order to realize that life isnt always about fluff and smiles we should grow up and just learn to get along with each other.

Complaining about negative threads is silly, if you dont like the negative threads then start positive ones.. or post positive feedback on the negative threads. It is possible, I have been on the web a long long long time..

Thank you

[GateGipsy]

Okay, the thread is moving to fast for me to reply to each interesting point, but you mods seriously need to discuss among yourselves about what you wish for the future. I'm not talking about the exact phrasing of the Vision Statement, but the general goal you want to achieve. More precisely, GateGipsy and Madeleine_W, you are contradicting each other while replying to the same post of mine. (Do I need to say I find GateGipsy's vision of the GW forums much more welcoming than Madeleine_W's?)

well thank you but as far as I can tell, Mads and I are saying the same thing, just in different ways.

So will, or won't, people who dislike certain aspects of the show be supposed to just shut up and swallow constant praise of these aspects?

who knows? this thread is about discussing these ideas. Nothing has been set yet. The point is, a general feeling of negativity (of the belittling other fans kind, not the making constructive criticisms of the show kind) has pervaded the forum and made it rather unpleasant. What we want to do is turn that around, and we would like the forum as a whole to 'own' this turning around. So, how would you like to go about doing this in a way that keeps your enjoyment of the forum?

Anyway, a point I think you should emphasise, even within the current rules, is that people need to use the "report" feature when confronted with bullying, and NEVER reply directly, even if they feel able to handle it. Some people (myself included) hate the idea of "crying out for mum", but it would help lower the ambient aggressiveness.

Oh my! Have a look in this thread alone! You have no idea how many times we say 'please use the report feature'.

[Falcon Horus]

I love your logic airrick (and your nickname too). Can't green you though, I ran out of gas ... green, I mean.

[kiwigater]

You do understand that Television Without Pity is a tightly moderated board which has never permitted disrespect toward other posters?

It's offensive that you would use that site as an example of a place where people are "allowed to diss to their hearts content."

Fair point, unless you're a moderator on a board it's often hard to infer how much goes on behind the scenes.
Although I haven't been to those boards, seeing as they've been held up as a model for how to allow criticism without hostility I'd be open to hearing your ideas (do you mod there, or are you a poster?). This thread is for discussion and ideas!

[SunKrux]

Ok, I understand that the "antis/naysayers/lessthanpositive" fans aren't going to be banned, but again I still feel like we/they/whatever are the ones who are going to have to do the most changing because the "Pollyannas" will possibly be more apt to report their posts than the antis et al.

The thing that's causing me to wonder now is all this "there is a person behind that post". Yes there are people behind every post, however, let us all remember not every person behind the post is a "pollyanna" or a "naysayer" Not everyone's brain is equipt to be constantly positive...which is what I'm seeing as being expected of all fans here now.

And again, it's all up to the interpretation and perception of each individual. I know many folks have probably interpreted my posts in a manner that I did not intend them to do so, because of their preconceived notions about life. I honestly do try to post with respect 99% of the time and sadly I have had people tell me that I am mean and a bully, when I'm trying to get them to calm down and see reason, because in their "OMG PANIC/FLAIL" mode they can not see how their behavior is effecting everyone else.

I'm just sharing this because try as I might, I am not, nor will I ever be a "Pollyanna". I have a lot of "Pollyanna" type friends and lucky for all concerned, we do tolerate each other rather well. It's the "Pollyannas" and "naysayers" that don't know the others and quite frankly act like they'd rather not know the other that worry me. I'm more than willing to play nice so long as people are more tolerant of folks like me who are not always Pollyannaish. My brain is not wired to be positive and happy all the time and I don't feel it's fair that it's possible that folks like me will be penalized - whether it's intentional or not - for it.

I'm not really worried about being censored because I tend to censor myself (unless attacked and then admittadly I sometimes do not censor myself). I'm honestly more worried that because of my less than positive stance on a lot of things that slowly over time I'll be made to feel even more unwelcome than I have been up to now. I admit that I only frequent certain threads, because quite frankly this place is so huge I'd get lost and then the crying and whining would start and that's not pretty. The threads I do frequent are for me safe havens in this big scary (kidding) place. That and my time is limited a lot of the time and it's so much easier to just check the threads I've subscribed to than it is to wade through the entire site.

Just to remind Darren and the mods, I honestly do appreciate all you all do and are trying to do and appreciate your taking the time to discuss this with the fandom. You lot totally rock!

[silly sally]

So does this mean that the Ship threads and the pro character threads (e.g. Samanda) will be deleted? "cause if you do this you're destroying the most popular threads and people will migrate to other, friendlier forums...

[ShadowMaat]

I find it interesting that despite the ad nauseum reassurances from the mods that criticism/negative comments aren't being banned there still seems to be a pretty heavy feeling that this is exactly what's going to happen. Just an observation...