GateWorld's Vision Statement .Suggestions welcome

[~Dave]

This is not the place to discuss specific incidents that are not directly related to the mission statement: the sort of thing you are talking about will be no different before or after, and if you feel you were hard done by, you can raise the matter with us by PM.

As to "political correctness" - people mean different things by those words, so I try never to use them. If you mean steering clear of bigotry and of inciting hatred, we'll continue to steer people away from it, yes.

I won't come crying to you about anything. I'm sure you see what's going on. If you think what is going on is acceptable, then it's not for me to complain about it. You've obviously made your decision manifested by inaction.

On the other hand, I know that Mods are chosen because they are tops at what they do. And I think you should be entitled to your own point of view. But it concerns me that the Mods regularly insert themselves into topics expressing a preference for one view or another as a regular poster. What can we expect in the way of them "Moderating" someone they strongly agree with? I'm not sure a topic remains unbiased when the "authority figures" inject their opinion. It's like a school teacher telling students that God does not exist. A valid opinion, but is it appropriate for them to be expressing it to those who see that person as in charge of their discipline?

~Dave

[GateGipsy]

No, by the wording of the statement - and yes, I'm aware it's not the rules yet, which is why I'm arguing it rather than sayign goodbye - I should have left the thread never to come back after the initial post and gone instead to play in the DW subforum.

The original post here was a starting point. Darren has made posts since then. I have a quote from one in my signature. Do you have a problem with what he says there? I can't see how what he has said in my sig would in any way impinge on your as a poster on the forum if you make your posts respectfully. From what I can tell from what you have said, then this is your POV as well.

The SGA folder is for an existing show, one that hasn't actually stopped airing yet. I imagine that you are a fan of the show, if not of the episodes that you have pointed me to, and that is why you are participating in that folder. If you took the example you've given me, the one about Fran, and lets say that is the sort of post you only EVER make then we'd be wondering why you're in that folder, and for the sake of the other people who are fans of the show (maybe not all of the show, but still there are parts they like, just as you do in reality) we'd like to able to suggest that you leave.

Let us use Madeliene's ealier analogy. I love jazz. But not all jazz. I love swing, I love dixie, I do not like bebop. In fact, I hate all bebop. So if I went to a jazz forum, I would participate in the swing forum and the dixie forum, and I would talk about what I liked, loved, and loathed. But it would be plain wrong to go to the bebop forum to just repeatedly tell people that what they were listening to wasn't music but noise. I don't have anything good to say. I have plenty of reasons why I think it is noise and not music. But I have nothing else to say about bebop. And if I go on and on about this, how will it make the bebop fans feel? What would that do to the bebop forum tone? Is it fair that I should be allowed to continue doing this?

[GateGipsy]

I won't come crying to you about anything. I'm sure you see what's going on. If you think what is going on is acceptable, then it's not for me to complain about it. You've obviously made your decision manifested by inaction.

No no no! Don't assume anything! You have no idea how many threads and posts we have to wade through. We do try our best but it is just IMPOSSIBLE to read every single post as thoroughly as is needed. We would need 100 posts. Please please please use the report post feature, or PM one of us with your problem. Trust me, we do not always see it - something may be happening and we might not be stopping it, but that might just be because there's been another big spat elsewhere that is tying up so much of our attention we haven't seen it. It does not imply that we find it acceptable!

[GateGipsy]

will the lines like "not a true fan" also be off limits due to the fact that it's the cause of most of the negativity in the SG folders.

it's the lowest of the low as far as i'm concerned i mean everyone enjoys the show but your level of enjoy meant and dedications is different.

if it's is brought up could would a member get a harsh response from the mods ??

That would get a response, and a snip. Please ignore those and report them. Those cross the current respect rule. Our 'prime directive' is no negative personal comments about cast, crew and other posters.

[Lahela]

Lahela
I am going to stress again that the C&R folder is not yet fully discussed and no major decisions have been made. While different ideas have been thrown out here and we welcome your thoughts please do not think we have made any decisions as of yet.

The C&R folders are still under discussion.

I guess I'm just a bit anxious... I enjoy a good discussion (like the ones we've had in the Ronon/Keller discussion thread - no bashing, just good debate from both sides of the divide) and I worry that that won't be allowed. I wouldn't dream of going into a "pro" thread to voice my reasons for disliking a ship, because it would disrespectful to the Pros, so I like the neutral ground of non-partisan discussion threads for that opportunity for open dialogue

[Pitry]

The original post here was a starting point. Darren has made posts since then. I have a quote from one in my signature. Do you have a problem with what he says there? I can't see how what he has said in my sig would in any way impinge on your as a poster on the forum if you make your posts respectfully. From what I can tell from what you have said, then this is your POV as well.

The SGA folder is for an existing show, one that hasn't actually stopped airing yet. I imagine that you are a fan of the show, if not of the episodes that you have pointed me to, and that is why you are participating in that folder. If you took the example you've given me, the one about Fran, and lets say that is the sort of post you only EVER make then we'd be wondering why you're in that folder, and for the sake of the other people who are fans of the show (maybe not all of the show, but still there are parts they like, just as you do in reality) we'd like to able to suggest that you leave.

Let us use Madeliene's ealier analogy. I love jazz. But not all jazz. I love swing, I love dixie, I do not like bebop. In fact, I hate all bebop. So if I went to a jazz forum, I would participate in the swing forum and the dixie forum, and I would talk about what I liked, loved, and loathed. But it would be plain wrong to go to the bebop forum to just repeatedly tell people that what they were listening to wasn't music but noise. I don't have anything good to say. I have plenty of reasons why I think it is noise and not music. But I have nothing else to say about bebop. And if I go on and on about this, how will it make the bebop fans feel? What would that do to the bebop forum tone? Is it fair that I should be allowed to continue doing this?

T'is funny - it sounds klike we're disagreeign but I suspect we're actually saying the exact same thing.

I said it in my first post in this therad, I think: This might as well be a matter of wording and wrodnig alone. The original statement did not differentiate between disgruntled fans and trolls, which is what I would call the people you described in your last paragraph. From the calrifications posted on this thread I can only advise to re-word the statement in order to reflect this very, very important distinction. Disgruntled fans are still fans - they're here because they care, not because they need to declare to the world their hatred of bebop or Robert C Cooper.

But this also goes back to what I said in my original post. I really do appreciate GW's nice and friendly attitude in moderation about everything, but the fact is that a part of that friendly and nice attitude is what allowed the trolling in the first place. I've seen things here that would not have been tolerated in any other forum I've ever participated in, and in fact said so more than once in threads. Personally, I feel the solution is to pointedly stop specific trolls rather than declare war on negativity.

[~Dave]

No no no! Don't assume anything! You have no idea how many threads and posts we have to wade through. We do try our best but it is just IMPOSSIBLE to read every single post as thoroughly as is needed. We would need 100 posts. Please please please use the report post feature, or PM one of us with your problem. Trust me, we do not always see it - something may be happening and we might not be stopping it, but that might just be because there's been another big spat elsewhere that is tying up so much of our attention we haven't seen it. It does not imply that we find it acceptable!

I appreciate that. Thank you. But as I indicated, there were mods regularly putting their own opinions into that thread as regular posters. It was hard for me to believe they weren't reading the other posts. But maybe I'm just misreading the whole thing.

Do you have a response to the second part of my post you left out of the quote? They are both closely related.

~Dave

[GateGipsy]

On the other hand, I know that Mods are chosen because they are tops at what they do. And I think you should be entitled to your own point of view. But it concerns me that the Mods regularly insert themselves into topics expressing a preference for one view or another as a regular poster. What can we expect in the way of them "Moderating" someone they strongly agree with? I'm not sure a topic remains unbiased when the "authority figures" inject their opinion. It's like a school teacher telling students that God does not exist. A valid opinion, but is it appropriate for them to be expressing it to those who see that person as in charge of their discipline?

~Dave

This one does come up time and again. And we do often discuss this. There are pros and cons for having forum participants as mods. Darren feels that the pros in this case outweigh the cons. To balance things, he's tried to put together a team of people that see different aspects of the show. I am a Daniel Fan, I do not see ship, Shippermum does. I do not see D/J slash - MC does. I see Shep/Teyla, Tame sees Shep/Weir. Although I do predominantly see Shep/Mckay, I'm also really big on McKay/Carter

So, if someone needs modding and they're a shipper, I probably wouldn't do so immediately - I'd have a look, see if a shipper mod was around, and talk with them first. I might be allowing my bias to see a moddable offence where there isn't any. Ditto Sky will seek a Daniel mod. We also talk to each other, and usually dissect major modding decisions. We try to look at what we've done and find any sort of bias that might be in there. If there is a big event on the forum, we'll have a modding post mortum afterwards to see if we could have handled anything better.

Finally, Darren chose us because no matter what our fan preferences, we're all open to all opinions, and we all try to be as fair as possible as participants even before we became mods.

I don't think that this issue will be addressed by the new policies. It is probably more appropriate to discuss it elsewhere.

[~Dave]

This one does come up time and again. And we do often discuss this. There are pros and cons for having forum participants as mods. Darren feels that the pros in this case outweigh the cons. To balance things, he's tried to put together a team of people that see different aspects of the show. I am a Daniel Fan, I do not see ship, Shippermum does. I do not see D/J slash - MC does. I see Shep/Teyla, Tame sees Shep/Weir. Although I do predominantly see Shep/Mckay, I'm also really big on McKay/Carter

So, if someone needs modding and they're a shipper, I probably wouldn't do so immediately - I'd have a look, see if a shipper mod was around, and talk with them first. I might be allowing my bias to see a moddable offence where there isn't any. Ditto Sky will seek a Daniel mod. We also talk to each other, and usually dissect major modding decisions. We try to look at what we've done and find any sort of bias that might be in there. If there is a big event on the forum, we'll have a modding post mortum afterwards to see if we could have handled anything better.

Finally, Darren chose us because no matter what our fan preferences, we're all open to all opinions, and we all try to be as fair as possible as participants even before we became mods.

I don't think that this issue will be addressed by the new policies. It is probably more appropriate to discuss it elsewhere.

Once again I thank you for your honesty, and for discussing this with me. As a side note, I'm not sure where else would be more appropriate to discuss it. But in the interest of not being confrontational, I will just "let it go". LOL! Thanks again.

~Dave

[GateGipsy]

It is what this folder is for - you could start a thread in here.

[Shipperahoy]

Negativity isn't being outlawed, you simply have to justify your reasons for being negative because anything less than a fully positive statement is "hurtful" to other fans, TPTB, and all the wonderful people who make the show possible.

Positive statements, no matter how... unhelpful are not at issue because they're POSITIVE and thus promote a sense of peace and camaraderie amongst all who bask in its shallow warmth.

This isn't about making things "fair." That much has been made abundantly clear.

We're not asking forum members to join hands and sing kumbyah (in fact, please don't) and we're not thinking that everyone is going to be skipping along holding hands and everything is going to be rainbows and butterflies and ponies.

You do not have to justify negative comments. I would not mod a post that said "That episode sucked. It's the worst thing I've ever seen.". I would however mod a post that said "That episode sucked. The writers are talentless hacks." Do you see the distinction?

I would not mod a post that said "That was the best episode ever! That totally rocked!". I would mod a post that said "That was the best episode ever! Anybody who didn't like that episode must not have watched it.". Do you see the distinction?

[Briangate78]

One more suggestion....

Take away the rep system, or make it where people can only add green. People tend to red for all the wrong reasons and it makes people upset and turns into a fight. I feel you cannot get more personal than someone giving you a bad rep.

[Shipperahoy]

One more suggestion....

Take away the rep system, or make it where people can only add green. People tend to red for all the wrong reasons and it makes people upset and turns into a fight. I feel you cannot get more personal than someone giving you a bad rep.

We actually have been discussing taking away red reps. That might very well become a reality at some point.

[GateGipsy]

Yes here's hoping.

We also discussed making it compulsory for everyone to start every post with Cliff Simon is a sex god, which Shipper was rather in favour of, but we haven't decided on that one yet.

[~Dave]

We actually have been discussing taking away red reps. That might very well become a reality at some point.

If you do, could you make it retroactive? LOL! Hahahahaha!!!! J/K.

~Dave