GateWorld's Vision Statement .Suggestions welcome

[ToasterOnFire]

Hmmm...interesting. Not sure where the forum is going or whether it's going to be a place where I'll continue to enjoy posting. No biggie, I'm just one fan, whatever.

Keep in mind that the overwhelming negativity that so many point out is temporary and will ease with time. Some fans are upset that SGA has changed in a way that they didn't like. Some fans are upset that SGA was canceled. Some fans are upset that SGU was the reason that SGA was canceled and that SGU has been dangled as the next fix for Stargate fans. Some fans think that the concept/PTB/sides for SGU stink.

Think of the fandom insanity that erupted between SG1's s8 and s9, continuing into s10, and escalated to a finale when SG1 was canceled. Less than one year after that I'd warrant that most of the nastiness on GW had died down as people left, moved on to SGA, let emotions simmer, etc. The same will happen with SGA and eventually with SGU.

Also, from what I've seen TWoP has a stronger banning policy here. Insult a fellow poster and you get smacked, do it again and you get banned. IMO, GW has a pretty weak ban enforcement compared to other forums.

I've been petitioning to get rid of the red rep system for years.

[Crazedwraith]

So does this mean that the Ship threads and the pro character threads (e.g. Samanda) will be deleted? "cause if you do this you're destroying the most popular threads and people will migrate to other, friendlier forums...

The mods have said (quite a few times actually) that:

C&R is not affected by these changes as of yet.

[kiwigater]

So does this mean that the Ship threads and the pro character threads (e.g. Samanda) will be deleted? "cause if you do this you're destroying the most popular threads and people will migrate to other, friendlier forums...

No, we realise the C&R folder is it's own entity, and will evaluate it seperately. There may be changes there, but they will be laid out clearly, and won't be implemented until sometime next year (current thinking is March-April-ish).

[kiwigater]

I find it interesting that despite the ad nauseum reassurances from the mods that criticism/negative comments aren't being banned there still seems to be a pretty heavy feeling that this is exactly what's going to happen. Just an observation...

I'm open to suggestions as to how we can possibly be clearer.

[Shipperahoy]

I find it interesting that despite the ad nauseum reassurances from the mods that criticism/negative comments aren't being banned there still seems to be a pretty heavy feeling that this is exactly what's going to happen. Just an observation...

You know what? If we were going to half the posts in here would have been deleted. Half the thread is people criticizing the vision statement and saying that they think it's going to stifle free speech. What's the word I'm searching for? Oh yes...irony.

[ShadowMaat]

You know what? If were were, half the posts in here would have been deleted. Half the thread is people criticizing the vision statement and saying that they think it's going to stifle free speech. What's the word I'm searching for? Oh yes...irony.

Use a nice irony rod to smack some sense into people. Works every time. One way or another...

[SunKrux]

I'm open to suggestions as to how we can possibly be clearer.

For me it's the ratio of "Pollyannas" to "naysayers" that worries me. There are far more "Pollyannas" that actually post on this forum than "naysayers". I know for me, that worries me, even after all the reassurance mods have given. Minorities tend to be over looked until they make themselves heard you know.

[SunKrux]

You know what? If were were, half the posts in here would have been deleted. Half the thread is people criticizing the vision statement and saying that they think it's going to stifle free speech. What's the word I'm searching for? Oh yes...irony.

I'm actually not criticizing the change, just questioning the wording. See again, perception. You and others (to me) are preceving my posts (and possibly posts like mine) as me criticizing the change. I'm honestly not, I am honestly questioning how the change is going to effect the minority here, the naysayers.

I'd rather not be smacked with any kind of rods please. Unless Sky wants to use the noodle of doom on me...then I might be okay with getting smacked...maybe.

[Laura Dove]

well thank you but as far as I can tell, Mads and I are saying the same thing, just in different ways.

You say:

There's no reason why someone can't come in and say that they dislike something as long as they do so respectfully.

She says (about people needing to just shut up if they dislike a character):

Quite honestly: yes. If they can stomach McKay in the show that they watch, they can stomach people talking about mcKay.

To me, that sounds rather contradicting.

who knows? this thread is about discussing these ideas. Nothing has been set yet. The point is, a general feeling of negativity (of the belittling other fans kind, not the making constructive criticisms of the show kind) has pervaded the forum and made it rather unpleasant. What we want to do is turn that around, and we would like the forum as a whole to 'own' this turning around. So, how would you like to go about doing this in a way that keeps your enjoyment of the forum?

Aggressiveness and belittling of other people's opinion make the forum unpleasant, yes. But it's wrong to claim they only come from people who express negative views on the show, as many "she/he's dead, get over it" proved it to me. As I said before, more open and constructive discussion threads would make the forum much more enjoyable than it currently is. This includes people from BOTH sides bringing more fuel to their point, instead of dismissing those who happen not to enjoy anything TPTB give us.

What I'm sure is that making people who are not blindly positive about their show feel unwelcome is a move in a direction that would KILL even more my enjoyment of the forum.

I'm speaking of the existing shows; SGU is a different matter. As Crazedwraith noted, SGU doesn't technically have fans yet, considering how early in the production stage it is, so you can do anything you please without ruining the experience for anybody.

Oh my! Have a look in this thread alone! You have no idea how many times we say 'please use the report feature'.

I know. But maybe this, and only this, need to be put in the Vision Statement, instead of pointing fingers at those who express their dislike of some part of the show.

[ShadowMaat]

I'm actually not criticizing the change, just questioning the wording. See again, perception.

I think (I hope) that once Darren touches solid ground again and has time to re-work his "vision statement" to make it clear that it's hostility in general and not negative comments/criticism that are to blame that a lot of the fear and confusion will be cleared up. Maybe. But when the wording right there in the statement implies that naysayers are the primary source of blame and the primary target of this new regime, well, there's only so much damage control the mods can do about that.

[SunKrux]

I think (I hope) that once Darren touches solid ground again and has time to re-work his "vision statement" to make it clear that it's hostility in general and not negative comments/criticism that are to blame that a lot of the fear and confusion will be cleared up. Maybe. But when the wording right there in the statement implies that naysayers are the primary source of blame and the primary target of this new regime, well, there's only so much damage control the mods can do about that.

I'm with you, but some people are preceiving our concern differently, to me anyway.

[TrueRomantic]

Okay, I'm in a rush so I've only read through page 5 so far, but I'm going to go back and read the rest of it later. I understand that the C&R stuff isn't going to be affected yet, but when changes are coming (I think it was said March/April?) will there be discussion about the changes like there is now in here about the changes that are happening?

Also, I'm just clarifying. None of the mods specifically told anyone that the ship threads are possibly/probably getting deleted, right? Because that's what I was told. That it came straight from a mod that the ship threads were getting deleted.

And I'm not trying to tattle or be disrespectful in this post. Sorry if it seems like I am.

[Rachel500]

The GateWorld Community Vision Statement
January 2009

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The GateWorld community exists as a place for fans all over the world to enhance their enjoyment of the Stargate franchise by sharing it with others. Our vision for this forum is that it will be a positive place for the enjoyment of Stargate and science fiction, a place to communicate and build friendships, and a home that is open to challenging discussions. While we affirm everyone's right to critique things they do not like, we request that such comments be made with tact and respect for others -- and that after you make it, you move on. Our forum may be large, but it is our home, and we want to spend our time talking about the things we enjoy about our favorite shows.
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<snippety-snip>.

Firstly, I just want to say that I think the vision statement is a good beginning for setting out what you would like GW to be about; friendship, respect and love for the show where constructive criticism is allowed but continual negative dislike of the show is not. Personally, I'm all signed up to the vision statement as a statement of intent. I come to GW to celebrate the franchise, the shows, the stories, and its characters with other fans. So count me in.

I also appreciate that ultimately, a bad reputation for GW harms the long term future of GW being in operation and therefore it is not in any of our interests for this negative publicity to continue if we want GW to continue to exist and more, thrive. Therefore things do need to change if perception about Gateworld is to change.

However, I admit confusion around the strategy for achieving the vision which seems to be:

a) return to general discussion threads only in SGU forums to begin with and then to filter through to the rest of the forum
b) get stronger on modding non-constructive negativity about the show in discussion threads and modding non-constructive discussions that turn into 'I didn't say what you claimed I said'; 'read my post again you jerk' type exchanges between people.

As far as (b) is concerned I'm very supportive. My question would be: do you have enough mods to really keep track of the whole forum to enforce it? My suggestion would be to have even clearer rules about what is and isn't allowed under these non-respectful negativity debates/posts.

But on (a) I'm not sure this will achieve what you - we - want in terms of vision.

I think the problem comes down to what people enjoy about the shows, characters and stories differs enormously individual to individual.

Say, I personally love the Pineapple. I spend most of my limited time I get to play on GW on a pro-Pineapple thread. My own personal view is that if this went to a general Pineapple discussion thread while I appreciate the right for someone not to like the Pineapple, I don't really want to read anti-Pineapple posts even respectful ones during my very limited spare personal time that I am choosing to spend on the thread.

Now while I can scroll past, maybe even start using the ignore facility, and would possibly only see the occasional anti-post in the mantra of 'find something you enjoy and post on that' spirit, I would still find it unsettling and upsetting to see anti-posts. And what if it becomes a challenging discussion with only respectful arguments on both sides? I don't want a challenging discussion about the Pineapple; I don't want to read challenging discussions about the Pineapple; I just want to enjoy the Pineapple. I fear my overall enjoyment of spending time on the Pineapple thread may diminish as a result.

Personally, I don't see the problem being the existence of 'Anti' and 'Pro' threads. I don't see that that on its own is what drives the perception of GW as a negative place. I do see the value in having 'safe' havens for people to vent, or share purely positive thoughts, without having to defend their fundamental like/dislike of a particular aspect of the show. Actually, that makes it less likely to spiral into 'you're an idiot who can't see'; 'well, your argument makes no sense' debates.

What I see has led to the negative perception of GW is issues with the posts within the threads and in how some people engage in debate with fellow posters.

If you're doing (b) as a strategy then you're tackling these things, and if (b) is successful as a strategy, then I fail to see why you need to do (a).

However I do get that maybe the Pro/Anti labelling isn't in line with the focus on enjoyment vision. Perhaps an alternative is to make the Anti threads, 'Critique' threads instead, and 'Pro' threads, 'Enjoyment of' threads.

[Shipperahoy]

I'm actually not criticizing the change, just questioning the wording. See again, perception. You and others (to me) are preceving my posts (and possibly posts like mine) as me criticizing the change. I'm honestly not, I am honestly questioning how the change is going to effect the minority here, the naysayers.

I'd rather not be smacked with any kind of rods please. Unless Sky wants to use the noodle of doom on me...then I might be okay with getting smacked...maybe.

I am not pointing fingers but being critical of the vision statement is, by it's very definition, critcism. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Criticism in itself is not necessarily negative. The whole purpose of this thread is for people to give us their opinions and any ideas you might have for how to make the mission statement better. Also, I didn't say anything about criticizing the change, just the vision statement.

What I was saying is that a very large chunk of this thread is filled with people saying that negativity itself is going to stifled and that those with negative opinions are going to be unfairly targeted and, as I said, if that were the case we'd deleting posts left and right in this thread. We are still forum for open discussion and that's not going to change.

[marimba26]

The thing that's causing me to wonder now is all this "there is a person behind that post". Yes there are people behind every post, however, let us all remember not every person behind the post is a "pollyanna" or a "naysayer" Not everyone's brain is equipt to be constantly positive...which is what I'm seeing as being expected of all fans here now.

So since you are using my words here, I feel I should clarify. Nope, not every person behind that post is positive. I am certainly not positive all of the time. What I do try to be though is considerate and that is where the "person behind the post" part comes in. For example, you have obviously taken time to think out what you are writing here. As such, it is my responsibility to respect that by reading and responding thoughtfully and with your opinions in mind. If I can not respond in a constructive way and with respect for you as a person, then it is my responsibility to keep my thoughts to myself. So while you are correct that not everyone can be a "pollyanna" (most people aren't), even a person with a contrary opinion can give thought and consideration to the other person by responding without malice if they choose to respond. I believe at one point that this did exist on GW and IMHO returning to this is what Darren is driving at.

I'm more than willing to play nice so long as people are more tolerant of folks like me who are not always Pollyannaish.

This is exactly the problem as I see it. Many parts of the forum have become polarized and intolerant. The point I was making about a potential friend behind the post is not that I will make friends with everyone here or that I necessarily desire to do so. It is that I have many friends with diverse interests that I have met through fandom and that if I had been as intolerant as some are, I would never have had the opportunity to develop those friendships.

Most people here are just people like you and I who want to enjoy the show. Not necessarily pollyannas and not necessarily overly negative. Just people like the rest of us who are trying to have a little fun. I guess what I am trying to say is that we need to treat people here like we would treat someone in person. Most of them, we will never get to know. But they are people and most of us would never behave the way some behave here if it were in person. It is easy to dehumanize people when we can't see their faces. It is easy to be rude and obnoxious if we don't think we are hurting someone. But when people are mean-spirited and malicious online, they ARE hurting someone. There is nothing wrong with having a negative opinion. It is when that negative opinion is escalated to meanness that it becomes a problem.