GateWorld's Vision Statement .Suggestions welcome

[Shipperahoy]

Okay, I'm in a rush so I've only read through page 5 so far, but I'm going to go back and read the rest of it later. I understand that the C&R stuff isn't going to be affected yet, but when changes are coming (I think it was said March/April?) will there be discussion about the changes like there is now in here about the changes that are happening?

Also, I'm just clarifying. None of the mods specifically told anyone that the ship threads are possibly/probably getting deleted, right? Because that's what I was told. That it came straight from a mod that the ship threads were getting deleted.

And I'm not trying to tattle or be disrespectful in this post. Sorry if it seems like I am.

Nobody said anything about the ship threads being deleted. What has been said here, and by me via PM when I was contacted by people concerned, is that no decision has been reached yet regarding the C&R folders. It's an ongoing discussion and if anybody has any input in to that aspect then they are free to bring their concerns here.

[tagger]

"Morality cannot be legalized."

I'm not sure a forum "attitude" or forum "cultural outlook" (positive or negative), can be changed with rules, or externally enforced limitations. The change has to occur internally, with each poster.

Also, I think the negative feel in GW is no different than the bloggers/ armchair critics I read everywhere on the internet. It seems like most everyone likes to poke holes in shows, talk about their dislikes more than their likes? This seems to be the Age of Armchair Criticism (I include myself in that group, of course ).

I think negativity is prevalent everywhere, not just GW, so how do you change that?

Additionally, the disinhibition that occurs with the relative anonymity of the internet seems to encourage posters to be more aggressive than they are in RL?

I am all for a more positive feel to GW. I prefer the positive threads, and tend to hang out there. I don't give a rip if that makes me a "Pollyanna". I have enough stress and negative stuff every day. Negative posts just add to my already stressful life, so I avoid them.

Personally, whether I like a show or not, I know each episode takes a ton of hard work, effort, and creative energy to pull off. Hard work is not a free pass through all criticisms. Nonetheless, I feel like I need to at least acknowledge the work that went into a show or episode. In the end, if I dislike a show, I stop watching whether I post anything or not.

Currently, I feel free to state my dislikes in certain episodes, plot holes, etc... and it does not sound like that will change.

I will be interested to see if changing the rules will change the feel of the forum.

Changing rules and changing people are two different things.

[TrueRomantic]

Nobody said anything about the ship threads being deleted. What has been said here, and by me via PM when I was contacted by people concerned, is that no decision has been reached yet regarding the C&R folders. It's an ongoing discussion and if anybody has any input in to that aspect then they are free to bring their concerns here.

Okay then. That's what I took everything I've read in here to mean, but I wanted to clarify.

Then onto the topic of my input...

Perosnally, I don't think threads like the ship, thunk, etc threads should be deleted. I can't say much for anything besides the ship threads, but I know those are (at least the S/J Family Discussion Thread) usually friendly and respectful. I mean, just today we had a logical, thought out, polite, respectful discussion about Pete and his involvement/role with Sam. Mind you, this was on the Sam and Jack thread!! I'll admit that feelings are occasionally hurt when something is misinterpreted, but to my knowledge the people involved always apologise. While obviously we don't like people to talk about/mention either Jack or Sam being with someone besides the other, we listen to arguments about the necessity, or lack thereof, of other relationships.

IMO, to get rid of these threads would be detrimental to GW. The majority of the friends I've made were through the ship thread, and it is a place that I feel safe stating my opinion, even if it will be slightly different from others. Even thunk threads serve a purpose, if for no other reason than a great place to get pics for sigs, lol. Please don't get rid of the ship etc threads. They are, IMO, an integral part of GW. I know I wouldn't have much use for GW if not for the ship thread. It's what I'm interested in. Why would I want to go to threads that aren't about what I'm interested in?

Did that even make any sense, lol?

[starlover]

*comes in trembling*

I normally don't venture out of my "safe" GW threads...but since we are discussing in here possibly a big part of the GW forums future...I want to add my two pennies...atleast...if you all don't mind it.

I can agree that Darren and the mods are trying to make GW into a friendlier place. We all love friendly places. As for deleting negative comments I understand that as well. I can't really tell or say a lot about really "pro" threads or "anti" threads, since I've never gone there. I like SG for what it is, I love the shows. If I discuss something I do it in my safe thread, where I am since the beginning of GW, the S/J thread.

This thread is partly the reason why I joined GW. I'm not a person that comes into a forum quickly and voice my opinion about something. I'm normally speaking to shy about it, but something on this forum made me go out of my hiding space and come here. I think it's the friendly atmosphere of the threads I'm in. I can voice my opinion, good or bad, without being attacked for it. I would hate to see this go away. I think the C & R threads are the "best" threads of GW. Since you go there to discuss something you love and you have something in common with the people in there. In the first post of this thread it's said that GW is to make friends, I think the C&R threads make this happen. I've seen it happen. I made friends on these threads, and I can honestly not see myself make real friends on episode discussions or game threads( and this is all IMHO, some people perhaps really can, I'm perhaps way too shy for this)

I just hope, whatever the future of GW forum is going to be that the C&R threads are staying. They are the thing that made me come to GW. I'm not interested in going in various threads on GW, I love GW because I have one place to come and go. I don't have to check several things, just one...it's easy, simple and it makes me happy.

Back to the negative thing that is going on on GW. I haven't felt it. Perhaps this is because I'm only in a small part of GW, but even if I venture out of my safe place, I don't have had problems with people, atleast not big ones. I can understand that Darren and the mods want to make a stricter policy on GW. It's in the end Darrens site and we are his guest, happy to play along(IMHO)...but there are many people who don't look in this folder only a small selection of the 37,000 members will post there opinion. Some are too shy, others don't care...but I think we, or rather, the mods and all, have to think about the people who aren't having a loud opinion as well. I hope that in the end everything will be good and that 2009 will be another awesome year on GW forum.

Sorry for the long post and I hope it makes sense.

[Lady eliza]

It's the same for me on the S/J relationship thread and on the Sheppard/weir relationship thread, as I support both. They are both respectful and positive threads to go to. Please when the time comes, don't let them go. These threads are the only place I go go to and everyone knows what I'm talking about, which I so missed when living at home. Now i'm in my own flat, it's even more important.

[Alipeeps]

Wow. This thread took a lot of reading!

Just wanted to add my tuppence that I can see the motivation behind the vision statement and have to agree that a fan site is be definition somewhere that people would expect to come to and find enjoyment and discussion of the relevant show as opposed to pervading negativity. I am in favour of anything that moves the forum back towards being a more open and friendly and positive (in overall behaviour, NOT in opinion) place to be but still allows discussion and respectful criticism (as opposed to relentless bashing). I'll be interested to see how the vision statement evolves and is implemented and I think the most important points made in here (and in some previous threads on GW about how to solve the polarisation and aggression) are those about taking personal responsibility for how we post - about recognising that there is a person behind each poster, about posting our views in a respectful manner, about thinking about how what we've posted might affect others, and about having a more open and accepting attitude to other's views.

One quick specific point I did want to respond to:

So will, or won't, people who dislike certain aspects of the show be supposed to just shut up and swallow constant praise of these aspects? That silenced displeasure, not allowed to express itself anywhere, will build a growing unease inside the person, that may ultimately lead them to not enjoy Stargate at all.

This kinda relates to what I've said above about personal responsibility and being open to other people's views - at the most basic level, will you have to swallow constant praise of aspects you don't like? Yes. Because other people will always enjoy and praise aspects that you don't like. But that's ok. Them liking those aspects and posting that enjoyment of them is not a personal insult to you, it's not denigrating your opinion that those aspects are not likeable, it's not attacking or dismissing you, it's just having a different opinion. And as long as that opinion is posted respectfully, then yes, you will have to learn to live with it - just as those people that enjoy those aspects you dislike will have to learn to live with your politely posted criticism of those aspects.

So the "swallow constant praise" bit, yes. You'll have to accept other people's positive opinions and not be offended by the fact that they praise what you dislike. The "shut up" bit? No. You don't have to shut up. You can disagree with those opinions praising those aspects you dislike - as long as you do so respectfully.

You do understand that Television Without Pity is a tightly moderated board which has never permitted disrespect toward other posters?

It's offensive that you would use that site as an example of a place where people are "allowed to diss to their hearts content."

I think you're possibly misunderstanding what was meant here by use of the word diss... I think the mods were referring to the fact that TWoP is intended to be a place to snark about and criticize TV shows - the mods were talking about dissing the *TV shows* to their hearts content, not dissing other users.

As has been mentioned in another post, TWoP is VERY tightly moderated - in some forums you can't even start a new thread without getting mod permission - abuse of any kind is certainly not tolerated and infractions and bans etc are handed down without mercy or, in my experience, even warning! I was once given a 6 day ban for accidentally (cos I was new and couldn't find a relevant thread for what I wanted to post) starting a new thread - the mod never contacted me to explain what I'd done wrong or to give me the benefit of the doubt as a newbie, I just logged on one day to find I couldn't post!! I wouldn't like to see GW head in that direction, personally.

You say:

Originally Posted by GateGipsy
There's no reason why someone can't come in and say that they dislike something as long as they do so respectfully.

She says (about people needing to just shut up if they dislike a character):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madeleine_W
Quite honestly: yes. If they can stomach McKay in the show that they watch, they can stomach people talking about mcKay.

To me, that sounds rather contradicting.

I think in this instance you may have misunderstood what Mads meant here - I may be wrong but my understanding of Mads' response here is related to what I discussed above - that to a certain extent you have to learn to deal with the fact that people are going to like - and will post about how much they like - a character that you dislike.

Her reference to "stomach people talking about mckay" doesn't mean "shut up and not post your negative opinion on mckay" but does mean "learn to accept and not get upset over the fact that people like mckay and talk about liking mckay". They're entitled to post their liking of McKay and you're entitled to disagree - politely - and post your dislike of him. Mads point was that if you can watch the show with McKay in it, even though you hate McKay, you can cope with reading posts that mention McKay in a positive light, even though you hate him.

If I'm misinterpreting Mads here then I apologise... just thought my explanation might help make things a little clearer?

[PG15]

I think a mod should make a new thread in C&R, sticky it, and have in it a reassurance to the residences of that forum that no change will come to it for the foreseeable future.

[Skydiver]

A Thought about SGU: You say the SGU folder will only be for fans of SGU. How can you be a fan of something that hasn't even aired yet? Or hasn't been cast for the most part?

Following that logic, why is that folder even open yet?

And....how can you dislike something that hasn't even aired yet and only has one confirmed cast member?

to reiterate what's been stated many, many times...you can say 'wow, i wouldn't have chosen carlysle as a lead', you just can't say 'omg, they cast that idiot!! wtf were they thinking!!!'

So does this mean that the Ship threads and the pro character threads (e.g. Samanda) will be deleted? "cause if you do this you're destroying the most popular threads and people will migrate to other, friendlier forums...

NOTHING will get deleted. SOME, and i repeat, SOME threads may be closed. and, like i said a few pages back, worst case scenario it may be a half dozen or so threads in the C&R area. I think i gave the ratio of 6 out of the first 100 threads the one time we looked.

That's hardly a massive amount, and it's not written in stone. Just ONE thing we've discussed.

Also, I'm just clarifying. None of the mods specifically told anyone that the ship threads are possibly/probably getting deleted, right? Because that's what I was told. That it came straight from a mod that the ship threads were getting deleted.

And I'm not trying to tattle or be disrespectful in this post. Sorry if it seems like I am.

To the best of my knowledge, i think something got misunderstood. Nothing will be deleted. a thread or two may be closed, the posts will still exist and be a part of the forum's history.

and again, we're still discussing it. Frankly, our hands are pretty full with what's going on right now to worry too much about a maybe a month or two down the road

It's the same for me on the S/J relationship thread and on the Sheppard/weir relationship thread, as I support both. They are both respectful and positive threads to go to. Please when the time comes, don't let them go. These threads are the only place I go go to and everyone knows what I'm talking about, which I so missed when living at home. Now i'm in my own flat, it's even more important.

I'll repeat

we're not deleting threads.

[VSS]

I think a mod should make a new thread in C&R, sticky it, and have in it a reassurance to the residences of that forum that no change will come to it for the foreseeable future.

I agree with this.

It's a nice thought to think that people will venture off of the pro-threads, especially the ship threads, but I think that is extremely unlikely to happen. Maybe 25% of the posters on the protected threads venture out in to the main of GW, but most of them don't. They'll go somewhere else, where (as Rachel500 aptly put it) they can talk about their topic of choice with out having to defend it. Heck, I get tired of having to defend my favorite ship and I'm out on the general forums a lot. It just gets old, and it's non-productive- right up there with politics and religion, IMHO.

It would be kind of sad to lose the biggest threads with the most posts and page views and highest star ratings of the entire forum, but that's what will happen. Certainly, I don't understand why a pro-anything thread would be changed, if the point of the change is to make GW friendlier. I don't think it can get any friendlier than the pro-threads.

I would like the C&R threads to stay on-topic though. There are threads for almost every actor, show, character and every combination thereof. When we go OT, we lose posters who don't have time to read it all. Although, I must say, people are good about using OT notation and spoilers for personal things and that I don't mind, because part of the point (I hope) is to have friends here- I just mind the stuff that belongs on other threads.

[nowvoyager908]

Quite frankly, I find the proposed changes to be a bit disturbing. I know this site is not a democracy and the owners can impose whatever rules they choose. Posters can either comply or move on . . . simple. But I think the mods are taking a chance of whitewashing the site into irrelevancy. Except for the Pollyanas, why would anyone want to visit a website where discussion is stymied because criticism is frowned upon, unless of course you can provide chapter and verse to backup your opinion. But if your opinion consists of "OMG this show is awesome" . . . well then apparently you have a free pass and a lifetime membership.

I joined GW during the time when the changes to SGA's seasons 3/4 were the hot topics. The mixed threads were ugly, unpleasant places to be. It was a relief when the anti thread opened. Finally there was a place to congregate with like-minded folks without being bashed to high heaven for daring to have a critical thought about Stargate. And aside from the occasional troll, the thread was quite peaceful and actually very entertaining.

I don't post much anymore because the SGA I loved ended in season three, but I still lurk because I enjoy reading what others are thinking. And I still love SGA seasons 1 thru 3. It'll be quite a shame to see all of that go away in favor of Disneyfied Gateworld . . . the happiest place on earth.

Sorry, but it just seems like a lose/lose situation.

[Skydiver]

I think folks are getting a bit...confused?

this is from Darren's statement - which i will clarify he himself states is a work in progress -

While we are certainly not going to ban negative criticisms of the shows, we do ask that you state such comments in a respectful way, and then not dwell on them.

snip

You may express a criticism of the show if you can do it in a respectful and constructive way, and then let it go. Don't let your hatred of a character, a writer, or a storyline become the thing that defines you. Likewise, treat your fellow forum members with respect: Allow them to hold and to voice their opinions, too.

what this means is....no, you don't need to post a 4 paragraph dissertation to back up your opinion.

If you hate episode 104, fine. hate it. Just express that hate in a respectful way. And by respectful we mean something like 'ok, so i watched WArrior,and yeah, it was nice to see so and so's backstory...but the b story? boring. It really didn't fit in with the rest, or maybe i woudl have enjoyed it more had Ted and Bill been paired up instead of Mary and Ted. Mary and Ted are always paired up anymore. I'm bored with it. I'd like to see something else'

criticize it, just don't bash it.

In that same vein, if you happen to think it was a masterpiece and the 'best episode evah' don't go picking on and belittling those that don't agree with you. Accept that they don't like it as much as you do, don't get aggressive in defending the show or your opinion and simply move on.

[Sela]

Quite frankly, I find the proposed changes to be a bit disturbing. I know this site is not a democracy and the owners can impose whatever rules they choose. Posters can either comply or move on . . . simple. But I think the mods are taking a chance of whitewashing the site into irrelevancy. Except for the Pollyanas, why would anyone want to visit a website where discussion is stymied because criticism is frowned upon, unless of course you can provide chapter and verse to backup your opinion. But if your opinion consists of "OMG this show is awesome" . . . well then apparently you have a free pass and a lifetime membership.

I've been reading through the thread all evening and I think people are getting the wrong idea about what is being talked about when someone referes to "negativity". As I understand it, you can voice your opinion about what you like and don't like about the shows, the writing, the characters and the like. That is not what they're trying to put a stop to. It's the way you say what you say and how you respond to people who have an opinion different that your own, not what you say. That's the "negativity" they're trying to stamp out. The "meaness" factor of it all.

There's no reason to call people names or tell them they're idiots because they're new and maybe made a mistake or spoke out of turn, or if they don't agree with your favorite ship or your opinion of this week's episode. I've been in many a thread where the conversation has gotten heated and intense but everyone remained respectful of the other posters while giving voice to their own opinions. I don't see why that would be a problem. We are adults, after all. All Darren is asking us to do is to act like it.

[sg-1fanintn]

Gateworld has always been a place for people to come and talk about anything they wanted related to Stargate...as long as they did it respectfully and with sensitivity to the feelings of others.

Occasionally, we have run into personalities that don't want to conform to those rules, or who seem bound and determined to upset others. But those personalities are few and far between.

Personally, I would hate to see anything about Gateworld change...anything. It's the only online forum I belong to, and Stargate is the only show I've ever been interested in enough to go online and get acquainted with strangers in order to discuss it. I would hate to see any threads shut down, and I would most definitely hate to see any discussion topics (such as ships) restricted. For instance, I don't think Sam and Thor would make a great couple. But if there are people who do, then by golly, I'm happy for them to have their own thread and talk to one another.

I admit I need to get a little more informed on this topic. I meant to read what Darren posted about proposed site changes, but fall and the holidays are extremely busy, and I haven't had time. But as I get more educated on the topic, one thing will stay the same: I think Gateworld is fabulous just the way it is!

[sg-1fanintn]

I've been reading through the thread all evening and I think people are getting the wrong idea about what is being talked about when someone referes to "negativity". As I understand it, you can voice your opinion about what you like and don't like about the shows, the writing, the characters and the like. That is not what they're trying to put a stop to. It's the way you say what you say and how you respond to people who have an opinion different that your own, not what you say. That's the "negativity" they're trying to stamp out. The "meaness" factor of it all.

There's no reason to call people names or tell them they're idiots because they're new and maybe made a mistake or spoke out of turn, or if they don't agree with your favorite ship or your opinion of this week's episode. I've been in many a thread where the conversation has gotten heated and intense but everyone remained respectful of the other posters while giving voice to their own opinions. I don't see why that would be a problem. We are adults, after all. All Darren is asking us to do is to act like it.

Well...that's perfectly reasonable! In fact, it's the way 99% of the people I talk to on the forum act now.

Question: Are any of the major pro-threads at risk of being closed? These are some pretty happy places. People go there because of their love of the characters, the stories and the actors.

[Sela]

Well...that's perfectly reasonable! In fact, it's the way 99% of the people I talk to on the forum act now.

Question: Are any of the major pro-threads at risk of being closed? These are some pretty happy places. People go there because of their love of the characters, the stories and the actors.

I think maybe they're going after that last 1%.

The mods said earlier that closing those threads are not in their plans.