GateWorld's Vision Statement .Suggestions welcome

[Madeleine]

"A fun place that is a destination worldwide for Stargate fans that hold respectful, intelligent, fun and wide ranging conversations about the show". Just make it clear that polarising threads will disappear and a move towards more constructive, polite, respectful and open discussion is required and people who can't contribute in such a fashion really aren't welcome..

Sounds good, really

Can you think of wording that would make the bolded part a part of the mission statement without being a bit too nebulous to matter?

[Repli!kat]

People have different motivations for coming to a site such as Gateworld.
Not everyone is here to celebrate the love of a particular show.
Some people just want news of a particular actor or to look at the pretty pictures. Some people like talking to friends about something they have in common.
Some people's sole motivation is to discuss what they do not like.
Why is this not as valid as any other reason?
As a general philosophy of life, those who dislike something are more inclined to try to change it, otherwise how would social injustices be righted?
I just have a hard time buying into the notion that the end all and be all of a "fan" site is praise for said show.
It's nice to know that there is a place where one can come and air one's gripes about the direction of the shows and see if others agree.
I can't imagine that TPTB are so fragile that they are hurt by comments on an Internet board anyway. They put their product/themselves out there in the public eye to be viewed, and should be prepared to take the criticism from that public when it is offered.
I don't post all that often anyway, so this most likely won't affect me personally, but I like that people have been able to come here and "vent" when they feel like it as well as squee.

[Reefgirl]

Then I suggest that the wording of the "Vision Staement" be changed.

OK, I haven't read this whole thread yet I'm way back at post #160. Whilst I do applaud what the mods are attempting to do, I do have a problem with the method they are trying to achieve it by.

First off - A Vision Statement??? Do we really need that kind of business management gobbledygook here? Unfortunately the wording of the statement seems to be what is causing the problems that some people are seeing.

I found that GateGipsy's post here http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....&postcount=139 did more to explain what the mods want for GW than that rather biased "Vision Statement". The wording of that statement is going to give you (the mods) problems in the future - hey, it seems to be generating a few problems with people now.

I suppose a few simple questions need to be asked and answered by the mods. What are you really aiming for? A fun place that is a destination worldwide for Stargate fans that hold respectful, intelligent and wide ranging conversations about the show. Or a place where "positive" people are given preference and GW becomes known as a biased forum? It's all in the wording which way the "Vision Statement" will be perceived and the way I'm seeing it at the moment is that the Vision is skewed to one side and it will cause future problems. The polarising words seem to be around (surprise, surprise) the use of "positive" and the perceived unbalanced checks on the "negative".

Personally I'd prefer this "A fun place that is a destination worldwide for Stargate fans that hold respectful, intelligent, fun and wide ranging conversations about the show". Just make it clear that polarising threads will disappear and a move towards more constructive, polite, respectful and open discussion is required and people who can't contribute in such a fashion really aren't welcome. Keep it simple and lose the biased wording or do you really only want positive people here all agreeing with each other? Yes, I do realise I just took it to the extreme but I feel that the wording of the "Vision Statement" is laying the foundations to possibly take the forum there in the future.

I guess my problem is that I like what you all are trying to achieve here but I think that your chosen method to achieve it is seriously flawed.

Now, lots of catching up to do, back to page 9 and post #161.

A very good point

People have different motivations for coming to a site such as Gateworld.
Not everyone is here to celebrate the love of a particular show.
Some people just want news of a particular actor or to look at the pretty pictures. Some people like talking to friends about something they have in common.
Some people's sole motivation is to discuss what they do not like.
Why is this not as valid as any other reason?
As a general philosophy of life, those who dislike something are more inclined to try to change it, otherwise how would social injustices be righted?
I just have a hard time buying into the notion that the end all and be all of a "fan" site is praise for said show.
It's nice to know that there is a place where one can come and air one's gripes about the direction of the shows and see if others agree.
I can't imagine that TPTB are so fragile that they are hurt by comments on an Internet board anyway. They put their product/themselves out there in the public eye to be viewed, and should be prepared to take the criticism from that public when it is offered.
I don't post all that often anyway, so this most likely won't affect me personally, but I like that people have been able to come here and "vent" when they feel like it as well as squee.

Another good point

[poundpuppy29]

I have read the Vision Statement and the most of the posts in this thread and I am very sad about the current direction of GW. Why am I sad because it feels like this forum is only going to be for those who are happy with Stargate and those who are not happy they will have to justify themselves and as some one who has been on both sides of fandom wars in this fandom it seems like Nazi Germany what you are proposing. I love this forum why do I love it because I can see all sides of the discussion and now you are taking that away and for what I don't see up side to this.

[ShadowMaat]

Maybe "negativity" isn't the best word choice since even when applied to general grounds still appears to lean more toward the "those with a negative view" rather than "those who make the posting environment less enjoyable." "Hostility" might be better since it's a more neutral term that still conveys the unpleasant atmosphere that seems to be overwhelming Gateworld.

[Reefgirl]

Maybe "negativity" isn't the best word choice since even when applied to general grounds still appears to lean more toward the "those with a negative view" rather than "those who make the posting environment less enjoyable." "Hostility" might be better since it's a more neutral term that still conveys the unpleasant atmosphere that seems to be overwhelming Gateworld.

Agreed

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

Is the SGU lulz thread on the hit list?

[ScifigirlSG]

Maybe "negativity" isn't the best word choice since even when applied to general grounds still appears to lean more toward the "those with a negative view" rather than "those who make the posting environment less enjoyable." "Hostility" might be better since it's a more neutral term that still conveys the unpleasant atmosphere that seems to be overwhelming Gateworld.

I've also heard about 'fighting' going on in some social groups.

[CazzBlade]

(If they leave the room in all the mcKay scenes, then they might want to put the mckay fans on ignore.)

I can't stand McKeller, didn't watch Brain Storm because of it. However, I'm very good friends with someone who is a big McKeller fan, I don't want to put her on ignore

[poundpuppy29]

I just think this Vision Statement is stifling I think all Pro and Anti threads should stay so people can talk to those who agree with them. I am sorry if TPTB don't like reading negative things but they should know all actions have reactions and there are consequences when they make moves with cast changes and storylines.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

I just think this Vision Statement is stifling I think all Pro and Anti threads should stay so people can talk to those who agree with them. I am sorry if TPTB don't like reading negative things but they should know all actions have reactions and there are consequences when they make moves with cast changes and storylines.

What's the point of having a discussion if everyone agrees with you?

[Steve 2]

You've got to be kidding me. This, folks, is that metaphorical slippery slope that is said to be paved with good intentions that after a short, nondiscernable u-turn leads straight down into the fiery depths of hell. I can't, for the life of me, see why you would even consider attempting to change the "tone" of Gateworld. It is disturbing and disappointing that such a ridiculous attempt at censorship (yes, that nasty, evil word) could be prompted by the obviously vociferous complaints of "long-time fans" who can resonably be numbered at perhaps a couple of dozen (cripes, say 100 even) out of the proudly touted 40,000 members, the criticism of, what, three or four "peer websites", and, heaven forfend, the almighty people involved with the production themselves. Gateworld is, whether or not it's by design or desire, the single most respected and active medium for Stargate on the internet. This is where people come to find out about Stargate. Take it from a relatively new member; the notion that this place is too negative and can no longer be considered to appropriately "support" the shows is to view the situation from such an insular and limited perspective that it has now become potentially damaging to the site.

I get that the changes you all hope to be making are intended to be and are in fact likely to be much subtler and less noticable than what is being made out here. I think. Nonetheless, the discussion in this thread does indicate a rather high level of intolerance for any criticism and general unhappiness with the product being provided. It does, in fact, seem that there is a desire to change the perceived reception of that product by silencing those who would speak out. Time and again there is a condemnation of "nasty" or "inappropriate" criticism. Fine. No one who joins here does so without tacitly agreeing to conduct themselves in a somewhat decorous manner. And the current rules and moderation at Gateworld are rather explicit when it comes to enforcing and policing general behavior. But we're talking about more than that here. And the problem with going further than what is already done in regards to moderation is that you now are entering the entirely subjective realms personal interpreations and reactions. There is no way that you will be able to safeguard the delicate sensibilities of everyone who comes here. That you're even trying to do so seems unbelievable. Someone is always going to dislike what another person says. You all know that. And the fact is that some people are much more capable of saying what they mean and describing what they feel than others are. If I'm going to criticize the show you can be damn well assured that everyone who reads that criticism is not only going to understand the gist of that criticism, but also the heat and passion with which I feel I intend. That is what you are trying to erase from this website.

This is, as some of you are so happy to constantly insiuate, a privately owned forum. I don't think that any of us ever forgot that. And if Darren's current intention is to turn this place into one where only resounding praise and faint criticism can be found, then there's nothing to be done (frankly, I know a number of people who think that about Gateworld now). There are, after all, a number of websites that only offer moronic, insipid criticism based on the most superficial of ideas. But if the desire is to provide a forum where actual, intelligent discussion of the shows can be had, then adimttedly trying to cut down on or influence the direction and nature of that discussion is undermining to the intention.

I'm also a little put off by the implied notion that the negativy that is oh so prevalent here at Gateworld is a result of improper or uncouth posts from forum members, rather than a result of the product being supplied. Without wanting to turn this into a lengthy debate on specifics, has it at all been suspected that the negativty surrounding Stargate has to do with the continued production of an inferior and unsatisfactory product? You're all very smart people, I'm sure it has. Taken simply from my own selfish perspective, I'm a big fan of SG1. It's my opinion that the quality of storytelling, acting, and general production of has been going down for the last few years, and that a new low has been reached by Atlantis recently. I can provide a number of reasons and even some empirical evidence as to why. I know that many of you agree with this. Why, in this community of which I am supposedly an equal part, need I be the one who gets muffled? What now makes a "positive" experience more valuable or useful than my "negativy" or just "less positive" one?

[marimba26]

So I'm one of those older members who doesn't play here much any more and it's probably about time I said why to the forum since I am the very demographic we're discussing with this new mission statement.

I have always (even when I violently disagree) tried to be constructive and polite. Period. It was Shadowma'at that taught me that there is a person behind that post (even though I've never told her that). She unknowingly taught me that the day I met her in 2004 at the Gateworld dinner. There were people there who had NEVER MET HER and yet were horrible to her. In person. I didn't much care for what she had to say at the time and she and I still disagree on many things. But she is a person. Who has become a friend. And no matter what she (or anyone else here) says, there is no reason to EVER be mean and rude because there is a person behind that post and every post. So that day, at that dinner, I realized that there might be a potential friend there behind the post that I didn't agree with. So it is my responsibility to be careful what I say and rewrite until I say what I mean without attacking that person (or delete the entry if I can't). And I have since made many friends whose philosophies were dramatically different from my own but we all have one thing in common--we love the show (or at least used to/want to).

That said, I haven't played here much in more than a year because I have gotten sick of all the sniping and camps. I have tired of people who say things to others that they would never say to them in person. One camp hates the other and vice versa. I won't bring up particular groups because that is not the point of this post but this kind of behavior is divisive and it is miserable for those of us who just come here to get away and have a little fun.

I came into Atlantis from SG-1, so I'm an old-timer you might say. There were many I disagreed with in the SG-1 fandom but they played their way and I played mine. And we had fun. But when I shifted to the new show, all of a sudden, it was not okay to like people who had opposing viewpoints any more. The SGA fandom quickly formed violent camps that refused to acknowledge any viewpoint but their own and many were forced to pick sides or risk being ostracized by the very people they agree with. I am not here to pick sides. Never was. I just want to play and have fun. But it stopped being fun when I started getting attacked by people who didn't care for my taste. When I started getting called names by people who were FORMER threadmates in the old fandom and everything escalated to outright hatred, that's when I said enough.

And when Gateworld tried to put a stop to it, those who were guiltiest cried 'censorship'. The First Amendment is not a shield for bad behavior. Period. It does not protect those who would slander, libel or defame, it only says that you may say what you wish. On your own nickel. Last I checked, this was Darren's nickel and he was kind enough to share it with the rest of us. He does NOT however have to put up with bad behavior. Just as you may write a letter to your newspaper and they may choose whether or not to print it. The Constitution protects your right to say what you please. It does not require others to listen or to reprint or otherwise forward your opinion.

As owner of this forum, Darren (and the moderators) decide ultimately what kind of place this will be by the rules/policies they set. This used to be a great place to play. This was the place where shippers like me could come and express their love of something and not be persecuted for it. And I can speak to this because I tried two other major forums before landing here. And in the last year, Gateworld has sadly joined the ranks of those other forums by trying to give people the experience they claim they want. All the while being disparaged in other places by those very people. And those of us who have tried to be considerate and remember that there are people behind those posts have chosen to go away quietly rather than suffer a free-for-all environment where only those who cry the loudest are taken seriously (even though they are often the biggest offenders).

So I am behind this change. And those who wish to cry foul should remember that they also were once welcomed here with open arms.

[poundpuppy29]

What's the point of having a discussion if everyone agrees with you?

it nice to know you are not alone and in each of those threads you can have a discussion with out pleading your case every time yes general discussions are good too why can't we have them all I don't agree with the logic of this direction and the motives behind it.

[Lythisrose]

What's the point of having a discussion if everyone agrees with you?

But not everyone comes here for the discussion. Sometimes they just want to Squee or the opposite. Why is that not a valid motivation for visiting the thread?
Just wondering, as I don't think everything needs to be a discussion. Saving tje character threads for the squeeing and the dissing as seperate entities would satisfy those needs. The general discussion areas would be the back-and-forth idea tossing places.