Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[JessM]

Cant agree with you but respect your right to your opinion.

Why did he kiss her then in Window of Opportunity? He didnt kiss Daniel!!!!

Maybe because Daniel wasn't around at the time? He wanted to do something outrageous in front of Hammond, something that he could never get away with if there were consequences.

Maybe we should also question why he rode his bike down the SGC corridors and made pottery.

When you get down to it, it's silly to argue over. I respect everyone's opinions even if I don't agree with them. Ship(or not) and let ship(or not).

[grasshopper64]

Maybe because Daniel wasn't around at the time? He wanted to do something outrageous in front of Hammond, something that he could never get away with if there were consequences.

Maybe we should also question why he rode his bike down the SGC corridors and made pottery.

When you get down to it, it's silly to argue over. I respect everyone's opinions even if I don't agree with them. Ship(or not) and let ship(or not).

Jess beat me to it! He did it because he was bored. A bored Jack can be very dangerous and do all sorts of crazy things
Yeah, Daniel wasn't around (but I've read the fic where he was ) If he had genuine feelings for Sam he would hardly have done it in front of a room full of people like that.
He did it because he could get away with it.

I'd just like to point out this is the ANTI Sam/Jack ship thread and none of us in here have to justify why we don't see S/J ship, anymore than people in the pro S/J threads have to justify why they do see S/J or in fact any other ship thread.

[Jace021903]

Just chiming in to agree. I really dislike that scene in WoO. Doesn't show love and caring to me; it shows disrespect. He made Sam the butt of his joke in front of the general.

[JessM]

Jess beat me to it! He did it because he was bored. A bored Jack can be very dangerous and do all sorts of crazy things
Yeah, Daniel wasn't around (but I've read the fic where he was ) If he had genuine feelings for Sam he would hardly have done it in front of a room full of people like that.
He did it because he could get away with it.

I'd just like to point out this is the ANTI Sam/Jack ship thread and none of us in here have to justify why we don't see S/J ship, anymore than people in the pro S/J threads have to justify why they do see S/J or in fact any other ship thread.

Heheh... sorry 'bout that! That's exactly it - we're dealing with Bored Jack, which is almost never a good thing. And I agree with Jace that it did seem disrespectful for him to do that to her, especially in front of his (and her) CO.

You're right, we shouldn't have to justify why we're not in favor of/don't see S/J ship here. If we wanted to do that, we'd be in a debate thread. I'm all for people expressing their opinions, but because of the thread title they shouldn't be surprised at the sentiments we express.

Not sure if that came off well....

[Luz]

Just chiming in to agree. I really dislike that scene in WoO. Doesn't show love and caring to me; it shows disrespect. He made Sam the butt of his joke in front of the general.

That kiss was meh!, I've just never seen any kind of attraction from him to her, and Carter only acts like a teen with a dumb crush. It was really embarrassing for the character because she looked desperate to get even a second of his attention, and he acted like he couldn't have cared less (I mean, when O'neill was still on the show).

So yeah, definitely not a show of deeper repressed attraction or affection or whatever, I'll go with the "he was just bored" theory.

[Easter Lily]

Just chiming in to agree. I really dislike that scene in WoO. Doesn't show love and caring to me; it shows disrespect. He made Sam the butt of his joke in front of the general.

I don't know that the kiss in WoO is really a great example of Jack's subconscious at work. But I agree with what most people have said here that it looked more like Jack being mischievous and defiant in the face of authority.

My husband and I call WoO the Groundhog Day episode... after the movie... and I guess I see WoO as a homage to GD. Phil the main character in the movie got up to no good in the film initially because he could get away with it. I see Jack in the same way. He was being disrespectful because he really didn't, as it were, "ask for permission". In the same way he was playing golf in the gate room or riding his bike rather freely around the SGC without any repercussions.

Other than that, WoO was a terrific episode.

[Jace021903]

I don't know that the kiss in WoO is really a great example of Jack's subconscious at work. But I agree with what most people have said here that it looked more like Jack being mischievous and defiant in the face of authority.

My husband and I call WoO the Groundhog Day episode... after the movie... and I guess I see WoO as a homage to GD. Phil the main character in the movie got up to no good in the film initially because he could get away with it. I see Jack in the same way. He was being disrespectful because he really didn't, as it were, "ask for permission". In the same way he was playing golf in the gate room or riding his bike rather freely around the SGC without any repercussions.

Other than that, WoO was a terrific episode.

Agreed. Overall, I really like the episode.

[Cory Holmes]

While I'm an adamant anti-Sam'n'Sir shipper, I think that the kiss in Window of Opportunity is the only kiss/romantic moment/mushy scene that the two shared that I didn't find cringe-worthy.

I have no idea why, but it really wasn't that bad to me. Maybe because I was (and still are) too busy laughing my ass off to be offended

[Madeleine]

I didn't mind the WoO kiss. It was about as romantic as a... as a yellow shellsuit, but it was in the same spirit as the mustard & ketchup face and the bicycle and the not-very-carbon-neutral game of golf. Silliness with no consequences because Jack needed to blow off steam, poor chap.

The bit that doesn't sit right is the porridge-dribble leer at the end, because then he's back in the world of consequences and reality, and he should have kept the whole kiss thing in the realm of the unreal didn't happen world. It's ickky to think of him having kissed Sam and thinking about it and her not knowing.

Still, it's not a big deal, not enough to spoil a great ep like WoO. It's all just TV, and the leer at the end is easy to shunt into the part of my mind that lets TV characters get away with appalling levels of irresponsibility, rudeness, violence or impractical behaviour cos in TV land that's what happens .

[Frostfox]

I didn't mind the WoO kiss. It was about as romantic as a... as a yellow shellsuit, but it was in the same spirit as the mustard & ketchup face and the bicycle and the not-very-carbon-neutral game of golf. Silliness with no consequences because Jack needed to blow off steam, poor chap.

The bit that doesn't sit right is the porridge-dribble leer at the end, because then he's back in the world of consequences and reality, and he should have kept the whole kiss thing in the realm of the unreal didn't happen world. It's ickky to think of him having kissed Sam and thinking about it and her not knowing.

Still, it's not a big deal, not enough to spoil a great ep like WoO. It's all just TV, and the leer at the end is easy to shunt into the part of my mind that lets TV characters get away with appalling levels of irresponsibility, rudeness, violence or impractical behaviour cos in TV land that's what happens .

I loved the WoO kiss. Very silly, particularly Jack's silly hat. Not meant to be taken seriously at all.
As you say, the leer at the end was much less amusing and I don't like that kind of lack of respect being shown to Sam, a highly decorated officer who has had to fight tooth and nail to get where she's got and deserves to be treated with respect.

FF (oops, Robin Hood has just come on, it was written by my mate Paul so I'd better go watch as he'll want to know what we thought of it!)

[scarimor]

Cant agree with you but respect your right to your opinion.

Why did he kiss her then in Window of Opportunity? He didnt kiss Daniel!!!!

But he should have done!

But I agree with you really. Until the 7th season, most of the "pining" or whatever is the best word for it seemed to come from O'Neill towards Carter. In Divide and Conquer I got no sense that Carter reciprocated O'Neill's inappropriate (imo) feelings towards his 2IC. And while I see O'Neill as caring very much about Daniel and Teal'c in the same way that he cares about Carter on a deep professional/friendship level, it also seemed to me that this episode especially was pushing the sexual agenda re. O'Neill/Carter in ways that we've never seen with the other two on the team (and there's no way TPTB would push that).

And I didn't like it.

[JessM]

I loved the WoO kiss. Very silly, particularly Jack's silly hat. Not meant to be taken seriously at all.
As you say, the leer at the end was much less amusing and I don't like that kind of lack of respect being shown to Sam, a highly decorated officer who has had to fight tooth and nail to get where she's got and deserves to be treated with respect.

FF (oops, Robin Hood has just come on, it was written by my mate Paul so I'd better go watch as he'll want to know what we thought of it!)

Yeah, I think the fact that the WoO kiss was so silly was its saving grace for me. The leer at the end didn't really sit well with me either. I did see it as a lack of respect.

[DarkDesire]

Until the 7th season, most of the "pining" or whatever is the best word for it seemed to come from O'Neill towards Carter. In Divide and Conquer I got no sense that Carter reciprocated O'Neill's inappropriate (imo) feelings towards his 2IC.

That's funny because for me I've always seen more coming from Carter's side than Jack's although I didn't actually even see it at all until they started throwing the anvils towards it in S4. In fact, in Point of View they both seemed completely taken by surprised at the idea that they'd have a romantic relationship in an AU. At least that's how it played out to me anyway. I was really disappointed that they decided to go that route especially for Carter's character because I thought it was great to finally see a female character that wasn't pushed into a romance with one of the other main male characters like so many other shows tend to do. I felt it weakened her character and too often her main storylines became about the men in her life instead of about her as a character. Whereas the guys got more opportunities to develop on their own.

Looking back a page, I'm really glad that the convention with RDA and AT went well. I'm glad they weren't bombarded with a whole bunch of shipping questions like I feared because I agree that they seem tired of that kind of thing. I did hear someone say that they were asked why J/S never got together and RDA just mentioned that they wanted to stay true to the regs so I'm hoping it stays that way and I do like that so far it doesn't look like either of them believe that J/S are together right now. I know it'll be up to the writers but it's just nice to hear anyway and too funny that RDA said that Jack knew Sam was a man. I just can't see J/S together and I'm still holding out hope that they won't be in the end.

[Frostfox]

Looking back a page, I'm really glad that the convention with RDA and AT went well. I'm glad they weren't bombarded with a whole bunch of shipping questions like I feared because I agree that they seem tired of that kind of thing. I did hear someone say that they were asked why J/S never got together and RDA just mentioned that they wanted to stay true to the regs so I'm hoping it stays that way and I do like that so far it doesn't look like either of them believe that J/S are together right now. I know it'll be up to the writers but it's just nice to hear anyway and too funny that RDA said that Jack knew Sam was a man. I just can't see J/S together and I'm still holding out hope that they won't be in the end.

I'm fairly sure it's a dead donkey.
I don't think the writers/producers will resurrect it now, they have ten remaining episodes and more important fish to fry than one character's potential relationship with another character no longer part of the show. I would hope that Sam had more important stuff to do than that.

Spoiler:

RDA is only in one other episode, The Shroud, as far as we know. There has been talk from MS and others that he's there for Daniel, though I hope he has meaningful interaction with Sam and Teal'c too, I don't think they'll waste his appearance on S/J. I think AT, who knows how fond some of her fans are of the thing, would have given them a bone at GABIT or Avalon if there had been something significant.

Chin up, we only have half a season left, let's enjoy it without the spectre at the feast spoiling it for us.

FF

[JessM]

Well said, FF. I agree, it's probably a dead donkey now. And I give major props to RDA for what he said at Avalon - about them wanting to stay true to the regs. I did get the feeling from recent interviews that he didn't want to go the 'ship route, that he just wanted Jack and Sam to be friends.

That said,

Spoiler:

I can't wait to see The Shroud, especially if Daniel is the main reason Jack's there. It'll be great to see some long overdue - hopefully meaningful - interaction between them, without the spectre of S/J ship looming overhead.