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**Dani347** · 14 April 2006, 03:29 PM

Upgrades is a wonderful episode, but right when they left to get on the ship, my enjoyment of it started going downhill. Because I knew that the retcon in D&C was upcoming for that part of the episode. My fun didn't return until the end with Teal'c being smug.

**Luz** · 14 April 2006, 04:55 PM

I don't like this ship at all, it's the most boring thing i've ever had to witness. It's cringe worthy having to see tptb forcing two people who couldn't have any less chemistry to be together.
However i try not to dwell on it too much, i just roll my eyes and try to ignore it, what i feel most is kind of embarrassment for the character of Carter, 'cause it always seems so one sided. I don't know if a ship has ever ruined an episode for me, probably not, the episodes that usually bugged the hell out of me were the ones where they didn't go off world.
Upgrades, uhmm, i can't remember which episode you're talking about, was it from season 8?, 'cause i only watched the first few episodes of that season. And season 9 hasn't been broadcasted here yet.

**Dani347** · 14 April 2006, 05:10 PM

No, Upgrades was season 4? It was the one where Anise (am I the only one who didn't have a problem with Anise?) brought the armbands that gave Jack, Daniel, and Sam (wouldn't work on Teal'c) super strength and speed and made them stupid, to quote Hammond.

**DEM** · 14 April 2006, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Dani347

(am I the only one who didn't have a problem with Anise?)

No! I liked Anise-Freya. Okay, so that one outfit was kinda distracting and I wondered how the actors managed to look her in the eye... heh... but, yeah, liked her. Thought she could have been a great recurring character in the long-run.

**JessM** · 06 June 2006, 05:21 PM

Hey everyone, I'm new to this thread, and I'm glad it's here (I've been skewered by S/J people before and I'm tired of it). I hated how they tried to force this 'ship back in season 4, and I hated what it did to Sam in seasons 7 and 8...she was practically mooning over Jack, agonizing over what to do... I thought she was going to move on after Grace and even though I didn't care for Pete very much, if it meant the end of that blatant shippiness, then all the better. I hated Threads, and I really hated Moebius Part 2.

Spoiler:

I think it almost ruined Sam's character - instead of seeing the confident, female soldier that we're used to, we were seeing, as I said before, someone mooning over her CO. I know that Sam is not perfect, but she almost lost my respect there. I was glad that there wasn't really anything in season 9, and I've started to like her better for it. With the news that RDA will be in a few eps in S10, I hope they don't try anything like they did in seasons 4, 7 and 8.

**fishyone** · 06 June 2006, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Dani347

(am I the only one who didn't have a problem with Anise?)

No, I liked Anise/Freya, too. I always wondered what happened to her.

Originally posted by JessM

Hey everyone, I'm new to this thread, and I'm glad it's here (I've been skewered by S/J people before and I'm tired of it). I hated how they tried to force this 'ship back in season 4, and I hated what it did to Sam in seasons 7 and 8...she was practically mooning over Jack, agonizing over what to do... I thought she was going to move on after Grace and even though I didn't care for Pete very much, if it meant the end of that blatant shippiness, then all the better. I hated Threads, and I really hated Moebius Part 2.

Spoiler:

I think it almost ruined Sam's character - instead of seeing the confident, female soldier that we're used to, we were seeing, as I said before, someone mooning over her CO. I know that Sam is not perfect, but she almost lost my respect there. I was glad that there wasn't really anything in season 9, and I've started to like her better for it. With the news that RDA will be in a few eps in S10, I hope they don't try anything like they did in seasons 4, 7 and 8.

I agree with what Jess said... (I've been more or less attacked just for saying ship split the team.

) I think that the ship between Sam/Jack seemed extremely one-sided, I hated how it seemed to weaken her character, and how it split the team. I'm a shipper, but I'd rather not see it on screen as SG-1 was a show about a team, not about a relationship.

**Dani347** · 06 June 2006, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by JessM

I hated Threads, and I really hated Moebius Part 2.

Spoiler:

And, I totally believe the ship messed up the team.

**fishyone** · 06 June 2006, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Dani347

Spoiler:

And, I totally believe the ship messed up the team.

You make some valid points there. I agree that

Spoiler:

It's nice to find someone who agrees with me on the ship splitting the team bit, especially after the attacks I got.

**JessM** · 07 June 2006, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by Dani347

Spoiler:

And, I totally believe the ship messed up the team.

I agree that

Spoiler:

You do make some great points. I remember that reaction shot actually, and thought it was great. It did seem like they were trying to throw a bone to the S/J shippers by sticking that ship stuff in at the last minute (at least it seemed that way to me). I'm with fishyone... I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who believes that the ship messed up the team. A few people on another thread kept fighting with me over that as well...

**Frostfox** · 07 June 2006, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Dani347

And, I totally believe the ship messed up the team.

Oh, amen to that!
And the blame lies firmly with the writing of it.
I had no issue with it when it was subtly done, like one of those trick pictures you can look at in two ways

Do you see the old woman or the young one or both?

Do you see the 'ship' or a close commander/subordonate/mentor/pupil relationship?
That's what the ship should have been like, but they kept on hammering at it, to the detriment of all the other fabulous relationships on the show.

Why should it be so subtle? Because it was illegal, against the honour of two very honourable characters and because women are too often seen as an appendage of 'their man'.
Sam was a spectacularly good example of a strong, independant, very human woman and all they did was reduce her to a simpering lovestruck school girl, not an attractive look for a 40 year old career soldier.

And before anyone comments on it, yes I am an unashamed slash fan but no, I don't want any slash on the show - the writers just wouldn't get it right, my imagination is much, much richer and more fufilling than anything the writers could come up with.

JessM, don't let closed minded or obsessed fans stop you from enjoying your particular ship. Remember, you fill in the gaps for your ship so much better in your own head and you're happy with your interpretation, you haven't been assimilated yet and no one, not even the writers can spoil that for you - if Sam and Jack had a wedding on the gate ramp (urk, that's an image I didn't need without a stiff drink

) the fanfic writers would be gearing up with marvelous divorce fic before the end credits rolled!

FF

**JessM** · 07 June 2006, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Frostfox

Oh, amen to that!
And the blame lies firmly with the writing of it.
I had no issue with it when it was subtly done, like one of those trick pictures you can look at in two ways

Do you see the old woman or the young one or both?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ca_o_vieja.jpg

Do you see the 'ship' or a close commander/subordonate/mentor/pupil relationship?
That's what the ship should have been like, but they kept on hammering at it, to the detriment of all the other fabulous relationships on the show.

Why should it be so subtle? Because it was illegal, against the honour of two very honourable characters and because women are too often seen as an appendage of 'their man'.
Sam was a spectacularly good example of a strong, independant, very human woman and all they did was reduce her to a simpering lovestruck school girl, not an attractive look for a 40 year old career soldier.

And before anyone comments on it, yes I am an unashamed slash fan but no, I don't want any slash on the show - the writers just wouldn't get it right, my imagination is much, much richer and more fufilling than anything the writers could come up with.

JessM, don't let closed minded or obsessed fans stop you from enjoying your particular ship. Remember, you fill in the gaps for your ship so much better in your own head and you're happy with your interpretation, you haven't been assimilated yet and no one, not even the writers can spoil that for you - if Sam and Jack had a wedding on the gate ramp (urk, that's an image I didn't need without a stiff drink

) the fanfic writers would be gearing up with marvelous divorce fic before the end credits rolled!

FF

Hey, FF!

You bring up some very good points, and I agree that it should have been subtle... the friendship I certainly don't mind at all, but they really carried the ship stuff too far. I like your attitude about your ship as well. That's how I see mine. I don't want to see it in the show because I know the writers will mess it up. It's best left to our imaginations ... and fanfiction... and music vids.

Thanks so much for the words of advice - they really bear repeating! I am not going to let them get me down.

**Jace021903** · 08 June 2006, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by JessM

Hey everyone, I'm new to this thread, and I'm glad it's here (I've been skewered by S/J people before and I'm tired of it). I hated how they tried to force this 'ship back in season 4, and I hated what it did to Sam in seasons 7 and 8...she was practically mooning over Jack, agonizing over what to do... I thought she was going to move on after Grace and even though I didn't care for Pete very much, if it meant the end of that blatant shippiness, then all the better. I hated Threads, and I really hated Moebius Part 2.

Spoiler:

I think it almost ruined Sam's character - instead of seeing the confident, female soldier that we're used to, we were seeing, as I said before, someone mooning over her CO. I know that Sam is not perfect, but she almost lost my respect there. I was glad that there wasn't really anything in season 9, and I've started to like her better for it. With the news that RDA will be in a few eps in S10, I hope they don't try anything like they did in seasons 4, 7 and 8.

Hi, Jess,

Sorry you have had a bad time.

I am not a shipper of any kind for Stargate--I don't think it's the writers' strong point--but I am all for people writing about it and talking about if they like.

It does bother me though when people are attacked for having a different opinion. I've still got scars from the old shipper wars so I sympathize. It's no fun.

If people would really stop and think about what they are basically saying which is kind of scary--there is something wrong with people who don't hold my opinion and it is OK to verbally attack them--(which happens over lots of issues on this board lately)--would they realize how silly it is to hurt real people over fictional characters? I don't know, I like to think they would, but then I'm an optimist by nature.

As easygoing as I am, I do take offense when a few people have said that there is something wrong with people who don't like S/J ship--oh, please, there's nothing wrong with liking it or not liking it. Is there something wrong with them because they don't like a particular pairing? Sam/Pete? Sam/anyone but Jack? What about Daniel/Vala? It's hypocritical and it offends my sense of fair play. (sighs for dramatic effect)

I do have this feeling that the writers aren't done with the ship yet, so fast forward buttons at the ready.

**Luz** · 08 June 2006, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by Jace021903

As easygoing as I am, I do take offense when a few people have said that there is something wrong with people who don't like S/J ship--oh, please, there's nothing wrong with liking it or not liking it. Is there something wrong with them because they don't like a particular pairing? Sam/Pete? Sam/anyone but Jack? What about Daniel/Vala? It's hypocritical and it offends my sense of fair play. (sighs for dramatic effect)

According to the generalizations i'm a o'neill/jackson slasher, just because i don't like this ship, or i'm just some obsessed Jackson fan who is jealous and angry because of all the time dedicated to Sam, and i wish the time was spend between o'neill and Jackson instead, *lol*. Actually i get a laugh when i read stuff like this.
It's not a mortal sin to hate this ship, it's one of the worse things i've had the misfortune to witness on t.v, like a trainwreck. A poorly written relationship, with a complete lack of follow up, it came from out of nowhere, and it's made worse by the fact that there is this complete lack of chemistry beween the actors. Plus the character of o'neill acts like Carter's feelings are nothing but a great source of amusement for him, she's nothing but a joke for him. His total disregard for her feelings is a turn off, it's like he couldn't care less about her.
The ship is probably going to be resolved during the last episode of SG1, as a cop out, like so many other long dragged ships before, JAG, and XF come to mind, and i'm sure like those the RST is going to be a huge piece of crap.

**Jace021903** · 08 June 2006, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by Luz

According to the generalizations i'm a o'neill/jackson slasher, just because i don't like this ship, or i'm just some obsessed Jackson fan who is jealous and angry because of all the time dedicated to Sam, and i wish the time was spend between o'neill and Jackson instead, *lol*. Actually i get a laugh when i read stuff like this.

Don't you just love generalizations?...Me either.

It's not a mortal sin to hate this ship, it's one of the worse things i've had the misfortune to witness on t.v, like a trainwreck. A poorly written relationship, with a complete lack of follow up, it came from out of nowhere, and it's made worse by the fact that there is this complete lack of chemistry beween the actors. Plus the character of o'neill acts like Carter's feelings are nothing but a great source of amusement for him, she's nothing but a joke for him. His total disregard for her feelings is a turn off, it's like he couldn't care less about her.

My new motto is "Ship is like beef jerkey." Why beef jerkey, you ask? Well, I'll tell ya...my husband adores beef jerkey; he could eat it all day long--he even makes his own. I hate beef jerkey, it's too salty and spicy and does bad things to my digestion. My husband and I have a running joke where he tries to convince me that I would really like beef jerkey if I just gave it a chance and it is so good, how he just can't understand how I could not like it.

Ship is like that. People who like it--great, have a ball, stuff yourself with all the ship you like. I, however, do not like it no matter how good people tell me it is. It is, say it with me, a perference.

The ship is probably going to be resolved during the last episode of SG1, as a cop out, like so many other long dragged ships before, JAG, and XF come to mind, and i'm sure like those the RST is going to be a huge piece of crap

I think so too.

**Luz** · 08 June 2006, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by Jace021903

Ship is like that. People who like it--great, have a ball, stuff yourself with all the ship you like. I, however, do not like it no matter how good people tell me it is. It is, say it with me, a perference.

Exactly, we all have a right to like them or not, there are many ships i like, but i'll never try to force feed them to anyone, and you'll definitely not see me calling someone anti-social or dysfunctional just based on the fact that that person doesn't like a ship.
Most asumptions are so way off, i've even read that all of us anti-S/J are Carter-haters, *lol*. Between you and me, Carter is the only character from SG1 i can still stomach, which cannot be said about Jackson who used to be my favorite. I'm not a Jackson/Carter shipper either, another favorite of mine

.

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Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

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