Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Jace021903]

Exactly, we all have a right to like them or not, there are many ships i like, but i'll never try to force feed them to anyone, and you'll definitely not see me calling someone anti-social or dysfunctional just based on the fact that that person doesn't like a ship.

Hee, I suddenly got this mental image of the Green Eggs and Ham book. "I do not like it, Sam-I-Am."

OK, been around kids too much...need...adult...conversation....

Most asumptions are so way off, i've even read that all of us anti-S/J are Carter-haters, *lol*. Between you and me, Carter is the only character from SG1 i can still stomach, which cannot be said about Jackson who used to be my favorite. I'm not a Jackson/Carter shipper either, another favorite of mine .

That's what grates. How can someone know who is person really is based on one opinion about one particular subject? They can't obviously, but it doesn't stop them from putting the generalizations out there.

I have to laugh too because I've been called Carter-despising, het-hater before--they don't know me very well.

[Dani347]

Exactly, we all have a right to like them or not, there are many ships i like, but i'll never try to force feed them to anyone, and you'll definitely not see me calling someone anti-social or dysfunctional just based on the fact that that person doesn't like a ship.
Most asumptions are so way off, i've even read that all of us anti-S/J are Carter-haters, *lol*. Between you and me, Carter is the only character from SG1 i can still stomach, which cannot be said about Jackson who used to be my favorite. I'm not a Jackson/Carter shipper either, another favorite of mine .

Ah, dysfunctional, and someone who hates romance. Hey, I watch Grey's Anatomy which is shippy all over the place (although I hate the main ship, but I'm a big shipper for other couples).


And, I like Sam. I didn't like Sam during seasons 7 and the later part of season 8, but it wasn't just because of the ship. It was how she acted during the big push of ship. Some of my most favorite characters have been involved in ships I've hated.

And, I am a J/D friendshipper (I've always gravitated towards male friendships, and for those who don't get it, that's not a euphemism for slash. I don't slash. I friendship) and I do feel it messed up the friendship. But, I never wanted Jack to not pay any attention to Sam and give all his attention and affection to Daniel. I just didn't want the opposite either. I just didn't like, to my eyes, how it seemed the ship meant Jack couldn't care about Daniel at all. There are other problems with the ship, so I still wouldn't like it, but they could have kept the friendship and the ship. And, I know a lot of people felt they still did (or never saw a friendship between them, and so never saw it go away) but I saw it devolve directly when ship started to make its push. So, no, it's never been "Jack's paying attention to Sam! He's not supposed to pay any attention to her. He's supposed to be exclusively Daniel's!" Again, to bring up Grey's Anatomy, it has characters obsessed with their SO's, or people they want to be SO's, and the friendships with others and interactions are still there.

it came from out of nowhere

That's another problem. I know that to some it started in episodes like The Broca Divide or maybe even the pilot. But, that may be because of a difference in opinion on the definition of ship. Physical attraction does not equal ship in my mind. If you were to say that Jack thinks Sam is a really hot woman, it wouldn't bother me, and it also wouldn't convince me that he has feelings for her. Sam jumping Jack in the state she was in just doesn't scream love or caring. And, I'm sorry, AU's don't tell me anything definite about this reality. Yeah, civillian Samantha Carter might have loved Jack, but I didn't see it with our military Sam. And, I just don't see them as this cosmic couple that spans realities and times. So, just because they kept putting AU's together, it just didn't get through to me that I was supposed to believe the burning passion of our Jack and Sam. So D&C came totally out of the blue.

And, doing it like that changed the way the story was told. If they had started laying a foundation of ship (not physical attraction, but romantic caring) then I think it might have just been a minor nuisance to me. Or even something I just ignored. Because it wouldn't be like I was watching one kind of show and suddenly had to adjust to another type of show.

[Luz]

And, doing it like that changed the way the story was told. If they had started laying a foundation of ship (not physical attraction, but romantic caring) then I think it might have just been a minor nuisance to me. Or even something I just ignored. Because it wouldn't be like I was watching one kind of show and suddenly had to adjust to another type of show.

Maybe if they'd started out as friends, but the relationship (if we can call it a relationship) has always been so awkward. I can't get past the Sire stuff, have they ever even had so much as a conversation?, there seems to be this invisible wall. To me it seems they've never connected even on the most superficial of levels.
IMO there's never been even the smallest hint that o'neill feels anything for Carter, sorry, but a bit of physical attraction doesn't cut it, i need caring, i need a frienship, i need a deeper connection. Something more than tptb shouting every once in a while "hey! here be ship!".

[Frostfox]

As easygoing as I am, I do take offense when a few people have said that there is something wrong with people who don't like S/J ship--oh, please, there's nothing wrong with liking it or not liking it. Is there something wrong with them because they don't like a particular pairing? Sam/Pete? Sam/anyone but Jack? What about Daniel/Vala? It's hypocritical and it offends my sense of fair play. (sighs for dramatic effect)

How horrilbly closed minded and foolish of them. How on earth can they cast such aspirations about other fans? What gives one group of fans the right to say that there is something wrong, something abnormal, about another group of fans?

Sam and Jack ship is not a religion, it's not compulsory to like it or agree with it to enjoy the show but some fans seem evangelical about it - they need to 'convert' all fans to loving it, it's as though non fans of the ship are heretics they need to convert and, unless every single Stargate fan embraces it, they will never rest.
Which is very strange to my fannish sensibilites, in SF fandom we have always celebrated the vast and fabulous array of differing aspects of fandom.

I've no problem with the fans enjoying S/J but I expect them to have respect for the aspects of SG fandom that I enjoy. I'm not rude enough to tell them how to enjoy the show or that they are wrong to like it, each to his own, I expect the same courtesy in return. Most of the S/J ship fans on this forum seem well behaved but if you get bullied by anyone, report it to a mod, I find Madeleine_W to be fair.

FF who has been in SF fandom since 1982 and has two Hugos to prove it.

[Commander Ivanova]

Maybe if they'd started out as friends, but the relationship (if we can call it a relationship) has always been so awkward. I can't get past the Sire stuff, have they ever even had so much as a conversation?, there seems to be this invisible wall. To me it seems they've never connected even on the most superficial of levels.
IMO there's never been even the smallest hint that o'neill feels anything for Carter, sorry, but a bit of physical attraction doesn't cut it, i need caring, i need a frienship, i need a deeper connection. Something more than tptb shouting every once in a while "hey! here be ship!".

Quite. I can't imagine them ever actually sitting down to talk to one another. That would soon reveal just how deep their relationship is.

[Dani347]

I don't understand why it's important for people who don't like the ship to "see the light." Who does it hurt if I think this ship is putrid and makes the characters look bad? And, if it actually does hurt the fans of the ship, I'm afraid I don't see that.

I had an interesting back and forth on Joe's blog, where I said I didn't see the ship, and someone kept trying to force me to, and when I just stubbornly insisted on being blind, they couldn't let it go with just an obviously we won't see eye to eye. They had to insult me as the last word.

I've got my own personal ships, and I might argue their merits if the conversation comes up, but in the end, I don't care if anyone else likes them or not.

[JessM]

Hi, Jess,

Sorry you have had a bad time.

I am not a shipper of any kind for Stargate--I don't think it's the writers' strong point--but I am all for people writing about it and talking about if they like.

It does bother me though when people are attacked for having a different opinion. I've still got scars from the old shipper wars so I sympathize. It's no fun.

If people would really stop and think about what they are basically saying which is kind of scary--there is something wrong with people who don't hold my opinion and it is OK to verbally attack them--(which happens over lots of issues on this board lately)--would they realize how silly it is to hurt real people over fictional characters? I don't know, I like to think they would, but then I'm an optimist by nature.

As easygoing as I am, I do take offense when a few people have said that there is something wrong with people who don't like S/J ship--oh, please, there's nothing wrong with liking it or not liking it. Is there something wrong with them because they don't like a particular pairing? Sam/Pete? Sam/anyone but Jack? What about Daniel/Vala? It's hypocritical and it offends my sense of fair play. (sighs for dramatic effect)

I do have this feeling that the writers aren't done with the ship yet, so fast forward buttons at the ready.

Hi, Jace. Thanks, I was quite disheartened by it all. I really like your attitude about the whole ship thing, and I agree with you. I may not necessarily share the opinions of people whether they ship or not, but I don't go out of my way to bash people for it. One thing I can't stand is when they go out of their way to attack you for ship or nonship on a basically gen list/site/thread. I've even had a S/J shipper or two flame me on fanfiction.net for a story I'd written, despite the fact that I'd made it clear at the outset that the story was NOT S/J.

I also agree that ship doesn't appear to be the writers' strong nature, and that is why I'd appreciate it if they'd keep the show ship-free. I suppose they're probably not going to, so I've got my fingers on the fast forward button, too.

[JessM]

According to the generalizations i'm a o'neill/jackson slasher, just because i don't like this ship, or i'm just some obsessed Jackson fan who is jealous and angry because of all the time dedicated to Sam, and i wish the time was spend between o'neill and Jackson instead, *lol*. Actually i get a laugh when i read stuff like this.
It's not a mortal sin to hate this ship, it's one of the worse things i've had the misfortune to witness on t.v, like a trainwreck. A poorly written relationship, with a complete lack of follow up, it came from out of nowhere, and it's made worse by the fact that there is this complete lack of chemistry beween the actors. Plus the character of o'neill acts like Carter's feelings are nothing but a great source of amusement for him, she's nothing but a joke for him. His total disregard for her feelings is a turn off, it's like he couldn't care less about her.
The ship is probably going to be resolved during the last episode of SG1, as a cop out, like so many other long dragged ships before, JAG, and XF come to mind, and i'm sure like those the RST is going to be a huge piece of crap.

It's funny, because I've seen quite a few S/J people who don't think very highly of Daniel. There was some site, I think it was jumptheshark.com, where they were calling Daniel all sorts of ridiculous names, and then in the next breath, "Sam and Jack belong together!" What a joke that was...

I don't mind the characters being friends, but I think it's gone too far with that UST they tried to push... I think that some have even said that there was a lot of that in Solitudes. I personally didn't see any UST in that episode. Sam was concerned about her CO and friend. I'm sure she would have been as concerned if she was with Teal'c or Daniel there instead of Jack. Then of course were the "maybes", like Jack's "lunch?" question to Sam at the end of Evolution Part 2 (I think it was that ep). I did think things seemed very forced.

I do hope that we won't see any RST in the last episode, but sadly that might happen... and it might very well be crap as you said. *sigh*

[JessM]

Exactly, we all have a right to like them or not, there are many ships i like, but i'll never try to force feed them to anyone, and you'll definitely not see me calling someone anti-social or dysfunctional just based on the fact that that person doesn't like a ship.
Most asumptions are so way off, i've even read that all of us anti-S/J are Carter-haters, *lol*. Between you and me, Carter is the only character from SG1 i can still stomach, which cannot be said about Jackson who used to be my favorite. I'm not a Jackson/Carter shipper either, another favorite of mine .

You guys nailed it. I am a shipper, though I know I'll never see it onscreen so I just prefer no ship there. I indulge in fanfic mostly, as far as that's concerned. I respect all shippers and non-shippers, as long as they respect me. I never try to force-feed it to anyone, either.

I think the name-calling and generalizations is ridiculous, too. I had a friend who is a Sam/Daniel shipper, and she was flamed by a S/J person, saying that S/D was "gross", and asking if she has her head in the sand to not see that Sam and Jack are made for each other.

I do love Sam and Daniel, they are my favorite characters, although if some things next season go the way I think they might, I will probably lose some respect for Daniel.

[Frostfox]

I don't mind the characters being friends, but I think it's gone too far with that UST they tried to push... I think that some have even said that there was a lot of that in Solitudes. I personally didn't see any UST in that episode. Sam was concerned about her CO and friend. I'm sure she would have been as concerned if she was with Teal'c or Daniel there instead of Jack. Then of course were the "maybes", like Jack's "lunch?" question to Sam at the end of Evolution Part 2 (I think it was that ep). I did think things seemed very forced.

I adored Solitudes, the team working to save each other/themselves. Sam's selflessness in pretending to be Sara for her dying friend. Well written and fabulously acted by all four of them. I even found the side arm comment amusing (and with someone that sick and that cold, it would only be his gun!).

FF

[JessM]

How horrilbly closed minded and foolish of them. How on earth can they cast such aspirations about other fans? What gives one group of fans the right to say that there is something wrong, something abnormal, about another group of fans?

Sam and Jack ship is not a religion, it's not compulsory to like it or agree with it to enjoy the show but some fans seem evangelical about it - they need to 'convert' all fans to loving it, it's as though non fans of the ship are heretics they need to convert and, unless every single Stargate fan embraces it, they will never rest.
Which is very strange to my fannish sensibilites, in SF fandom we have always celebrated the vast and fabulous array of differing aspects of fandom.

I've no problem with the fans enjoying S/J but I expect them to have respect for the aspects of SG fandom that I enjoy. I'm not rude enough to tell them how to enjoy the show or that they are wrong to like it, each to his own, I expect the same courtesy in return. Most of the S/J ship fans on this forum seem well behaved but if you get bullied by anyone, report it to a mod, I find Madeleine_W to be fair.

FF who has been in SF fandom since 1982 and has two Hugos to prove it.

Well said, FF. And thanks for the advice.

[Dani347]

It's funny, because I've seen quite a few S/J people who don't think very highly of Daniel. There was some site, I think it was jumptheshark.com, where they were calling Daniel all sorts of ridiculous names, and then in the next breath, "Sam and Jack belong together!" What a joke that was...

Now, I just want to say that I know not all J/S shippers feel this way, but as for the ones that do, it might explain why they see anybody who hates the ship as a rabid fan of Daniel (not that there's anything wrong with that) because it's the reverse of how they feel. They like the ship, they don't like Daniel, ergo, someone who doesn't like the ship must like Daniel. Without realizing it's true for some, not true for others, and may be true without being directly connected.

I've even had a S/J shipper or two flame me on fanfiction.net for a story I'd written, despite the fact that I'd made it clear at the outset that the story was NOT S/J.

Another thing I don't get. There are types of fanfics I don't like, but it's a matter of personal taste. I might get annoyed if a fanfic turns into ship with no sign beforehand (sort of like the show) but I'll just look for another fic. I wouldn't flame someone for the type of story they write. And, if it's clear from the outset what the story is going to be, then there's even less justification for complaining.

[JessM]

I don't understand why it's important for people who don't like the ship to "see the light." Who does it hurt if I think this ship is putrid and makes the characters look bad? And, if it actually does hurt the fans of the ship, I'm afraid I don't see that.

I had an interesting back and forth on Joe's blog, where I said I didn't see the ship, and someone kept trying to force me to, and when I just stubbornly insisted on being blind, they couldn't let it go with just an obviously we won't see eye to eye. They had to insult me as the last word.

I've got my own personal ships, and I might argue their merits if the conversation comes up, but in the end, I don't care if anyone else likes them or not.

See, that's what I can't stand... all that "do you have your head in the sand?" stuff. It really makes me wonder what is behind all that sort of talk. The S/J person who flamed me for my fic (it was a tag to Affinity) admitted that she wasn't happy and felt that her ship was sinking after a few not-good episodes (I'm pretty sure she meant the episodes featuring Sam and Pete).

I'm the same way... I couldn't care less if anyone liked my ship or not, so long as they don't attack me for it.

[JessM]

I adored Solitudes, the team working to save each other/themselves. Sam's selflessness in pretending to be Sara for her dying friend. Well written and fabulously acted by all four of them. I even found the side arm comment amusing (and with someone that sick and that cold, it would only be his gun!).

FF

That episode was well done. And I really liked how Daniel had forgone sleep and worked nonstop to find out where they were and get them home. I've read some nice episode tag fics for that one. One concerned Sam being upset and thinking that she'd failed Jack for not being able to figure out where she was. Daniel lent her a sympathetic ear, and it was nice to see (and this was a gen fic on a gen site). Another was basically Daniel's thoughts as he was watching Jack in the infirmary (and possibly Sam... I don't remember, but it was another gen fic).

[JessM]

Now, I just want to say that I know not all J/S shippers feel this way, but as for the ones that do, it might explain why they see anybody who hates the ship as a rabid fan of Daniel (not that there's anything wrong with that) because it's the reverse of how they feel. They like the ship, they don't like Daniel, ergo, someone who doesn't like the ship must like Daniel. Without realizing it's true for some, not true for others, and may be true without being directly connected.

Oh, same here... I know there are decent J/S shippers who respect other opinions, and I really appreciate that. And yeah, there's nothing wrong with being a rabid fan of Daniel. I've seen a few J/S fics that portrayed Daniel as a whiny pain in the neck. In one of the other threads here (it was a Sam thread), I mentioned how I wasn't too happy with

Spoiler:

the way Sam seemed to neglect Daniel at the end of Affinity, and how she ran right to Pete to accept his proposal, etc. while Daniel is lying on the ground unconscious from being zatted. I just didn't think she'd abandon someone who was a dear friend to her.

Well, some S/J people defended Sam by saying that Daniel has been awful to her quite a few times, listing his cool reception of her in Full Circle as one. It was as if she could do no wrong in their eyes, and Daniel could do plenty wrong, which I felt was unfair.

Another thing I don't get. There are types of fanfics I don't like, but it's a matter of personal taste. I might get annoyed if a fanfic turns into ship with no sign beforehand (sort of like the show) but I'll just look for another fic. I wouldn't flame someone for the type of story they write. And, if it's clear from the outset what the story is going to be, then there's even less justification for complaining.

Same here. If I see a fic that I don't think I'll like, I just don't read it... or if I start reading it and don't like where it's going, I stop and look for something else.