Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[jdjunkie]

Indeed, there will be a huge resurgence of fix-it fics. Those of us who aren't constrained by SG1 canon are not going to let a trivial thing like TPTB making S/J canon, to stop us from enjoying the aspects of the show we prefer.
We'll continue, as we always have, reading the subtext, following the charisma and chemistry, rather than just accepting that a relationship should happen just 'because they are meant to be'. FF

This. A thousand times.

And OMG the fix-it fic will be tremendous. I've read some amazing Meridian fix-its and fix-its that totally fixed Unending for me. The passion, skill and vision of our fanfic writers will put right any nonsense movie #3 might offer. If it ever gets made (caveat)

[Aragon101]

I'm actually in the process of writing a gen fic with SG1's final adventure before Sam leaves for Atlantis, Teal'c leaves for FJN, and Daniel retires to his study

I plan on throwing the S/J Fans a total red herring. an EVIL one that makes perfect sense in the context, but will be misinterpreted!

It'll be giving them a hand to get on teh boat, then giving them the boot!

whuahahahahaha!

Seriously though, Fanfic does these characters oh so muc justice.

[Frostfox]

This. A thousand times.

And OMG the fix-it fic will be tremendous. I've read some amazing Meridian fix-its and fix-its that totally fixed Unending for me. The passion, skill and vision of our fanfic writers will put right any nonsense movie #3 might offer. If it ever gets made (caveat)

The daft thing is, if the third film gets made, the S/J fans will have worked themselves into such a frenzy, that nothing short of Love Story will satisfy them. And they won't get 90 minutes of Sam/Jack making out (eww, I just threw up a little at the very thought).
So they won't be happy and the rest of fandom will have had to put up with whatever pathetic display of inappropriate behaviour TPTB think equates to romance.
So no one will be happy.
And it will be done at the expense of Team interaction, the one thing guaranteed to make all fans happy.

I'm actually in the process of writing a gen fic with SG1's final adventure before Sam leaves for Atlantis, Teal'c leaves for FJN, and Daniel retires to his study

I plan on throwing the S/J Fans a total red herring. an EVIL one that makes perfect sense in the context, but will be misinterpreted!

It'll be giving them a hand to get on teh boat, then giving them the boot!

whuahahahahaha!

Seriously though, Fanfic does these characters oh so muc justice.

Fanfic is wonderful.
S/J fanfic leaves me cold. I used to really enjoy Kira/Odo and Jadzia and/or Ezri/Julian in DS9 fandom but S/J fanfic is too vanilla, too tame for my tastes, even without TPTB doing such a poor job that I hate the pairing. Plus TPTB for DS9 didn't warp their characters to fit the romance; it grew naturally out of the characters and their situations, unlike S/J, it never felt forced or grafted on.
But I still hold that the fanfic writers would do a more convincing job with the Jack and Sam than the show writers ever managed in 10+ years.

FF

[Aragon101]

The daft thing is, if the third film gets made, the S/J fans will have worked themselves into such a frenzy, that nothing short of Love Story will satisfy them. And they won't get 90 minutes of Sam/Jack making out (eww, I just threw up a little at the very thought).
So they won't be happy and the rest of fandom will have had to put up with whatever pathetic display of inappropriate behaviour TPTB think equates to romance.
So no one will be happy.
And it will be done at the expense of Team interaction, the one thing guaranteed to make all fans happy.



Fanfic is wonderful.
S/J fanfic leaves me cold. I used to really enjoy Kira/Odo and Jadzia and/or Ezri/Julian in DS9 fandom but S/J fanfic is too vanilla, too tame for my tastes, even without TPTB doing such a poor job that I hate the pairing. Plus TPTB for DS9 didn't warp their characters to fit the romance; it grew naturally out of the characters and their situations, unlike S/J, it never felt forced or grafted on.
But I still hold that the fanfic writers would do a more convincing job with the Jack and Sam than the show writers ever managed in 10+ years.

FF

It's funny, a show like SG1 was so full of potential that i'd say a significant portion of the fans remain with it more out of love of the fandom than teh show itself. I haven't watched an episode in quite some time, but i still love the possibilities and untaken roads that the show could have taken.

Fanfic will almost always do better than the show ever did. Even the craptastic fanfics that serve no purpose but to put them together actually has the two of them wanting to get together instead of Jack about to cough up his lunch.

It's like all the Xander fics in the buffyverse. People seek to empower him so that's what they do in fanfic, people want to see S/J put together well, so that's what they do

Will it ever convince me? Nah. The show didn't believable sell the ship to me. So since Fanfic is derivative of what's been on the show, in turns its very difficult for me to see S/J even in fanfic, but i wholeheartedly acknowledge that it does it exponentially better and if it had been on screen, i may have been more accepting.

The scene i'm going to write is awesome. They're all in Sam's house with a farewell party, Jack takes her off on her own for a minute, they have a ufn little talk, then he hands her a jewelry box and says "I've been hoping to give you this sooner rather than later."

Sam's all agog, and when she opens its....

Spoiler:

It's Jack's Colonel Eagle Pin, she's been promoted

WHUAHAHAHAHA!!! (okay yes it's a tired fandom thing, but still that's gonna be one hell of a trick twist )

[jckfan55]

It'

The scene i'm going to write is awesome. They're all in Sam's house with a farewell party, Jack takes her off on her own for a minute, they have a ufn little talk, then he hands her a jewelry box and says "I've been hoping to give you this sooner rather than later."

Sam's all agog, and when she opens its....

Spoiler:

It's Jack's Colonel Eagle Pin, she's been promoted

WHUAHAHAHAHA!!! (okay yes it's a tired fandom thing, but still that's gonna be one hell of a trick twist )

Mean. But I think it would be in character for him to

Spoiler:

give her his eagles. As a proud CO/friend.

[Frostfox]

It's funny, a show like SG1 was so full of potential that i'd say a significant portion of the fans remain with it more out of love of the fandom than teh show itself. I haven't watched an episode in quite some time, but i still love the possibilities and untaken roads that the show could have taken.

Fanfic will almost always do better than the show ever did. Even the craptastic fanfics that serve no purpose but to put them together actually has the two of them wanting to get together instead of Jack about to cough up his lunch.

It's like all the Xander fics in the buffyverse. People seek to empower him so that's what they do in fanfic, people want to see S/J put together well, so that's what they do

Will it ever convince me? Nah. The show didn't believable sell the ship to me. So since Fanfic is derivative of what's been on the show, in turns its very difficult for me to see S/J even in fanfic, but i wholeheartedly acknowledge that it does it exponentially better and if it had been on screen, i may have been more accepting.

The scene i'm going to write is awesome. They're all in Sam's house with a farewell party, Jack takes her off on her own for a minute, they have a ufn little talk, then he hands her a jewelry box and says "I've been hoping to give you this sooner rather than later."

Sam's all agog, and when she opens its....

Spoiler:

It's Jack's Colonel Eagle Pin, she's been promoted

WHUAHAHAHAHA!!! (okay yes it's a tired fandom thing, but still that's gonna be one hell of a trick twist )

I got into SG1 because I liked the slash fandom, I freely admit that.
Having been part of a couple of teeny, tiny slash fandoms, I found it refreshing to be interacting with a large, healthy fanbase.

I find SG1 frustratingly lightweight at times. I suppose it's a balancing act, SG1 is famous for its humour and it's part of what made the show unique and such a long runner, but the characters (and actors) could have handled more weighty plotlines.
Fanfic can cater for my need for deeper, gritter stories.

Fanfic can go into relationships with greater depth and emphasis than the show, we can hear the inner thoughts of the characters in a way you never do in a TV show. Motivations and inner dialogue can be used to give insight that a 42 minute TV show, focusing on action and plot, can't.

It's why I'm not overly fussed over canon, canon itself is limiting, limited by the constraints of a production company producing a mainstream, middle of the road TV adventure show for a white, US based, heterosexual audience. Fanfic is limited only by our imagination, canon is our starting point but we can go way, way beyond it.

Mean. But I think it would be in character for him to

Spoiler:

give her his eagles. As a proud CO/friend.

Of course, because Sam & Jack friendship is an important part of The Team. It just shouldn't be at the expense of The Team.

FF

[Frostfox]

Apparently, our well thought out and well argued reasons for finding Sam/Jack risible all boil down to us being 'incredibly sexist' and is all about the power dynamic between the characters. It's nice to know our place.

Strangely, I thought our discussions about how male writers have been treating a female character had been even handed and fair, but perhaps we have been mistaken and have been bashing the character, while seeing Jack as blameless, all along? I thought that power dynamics was just one of myriad reasons why S/J was a train wreck of an attempt at a relationship, not that it was the crux of all our debates.

And how we are all slashers (sorry jckfan55 and Aragon101, hate to break the news you are slasher to you like this) and Sam gets in the way of our OTP, so we all drag her down and complain about her being SuperSam, when we give the boys a free pass. Because, you know, we always bash her here.

Yes, I have reported the posts in question to the mods, but, as they are still there 48 hours later (and getting support, of course) in a part of the forum where I feel it inappropriate to post a rebuttal, I thought I would discuss with you our dreadful tearing down of her character and our 'incredibly sexist' behaviour. So when did you last post some incredibly sexist, anti Sam discussion in this thread?

FF

[Killdeer]

Oh what nonsense. I don't mind debate, but I wish fans would stick to their own perspectives and opinions instead of making sweeping statements and generalizations about other people's opinions.

EDIT: Not directed at you Frostfox, in case it came across that way.

[discodiva]

*snorts*....

[Frostfox]

*snorts*....

It's one thing to say 'Sam is just pining for her boss, that's so weak and girlie' and something entirely different to say 'Sam is just pining for her boss, that's such a weak and girlie way of writing her, why didn't TPTB come up with something better'. The first assumes that Sam is a. real (!) and b. to be treated differently because she's the female, held to a higher standard, as it were. And could be, sexist.
The second expresses frustration that after decades of poor characterisation of women in SF as just the girlfriend, the love interest, the companion, TPTB kept perpetuating the theme with a genuinely interesting and 3 dimensional character that they themselves had created in the first place.

But I'm a slash fan, so I only wrote that for show, really I think that Sam gets in the way of Jack/Daniel, so it's all an invalid argument anyway. Because, clearly, I couldn't keep my fanfic preferences separate from my overall reading of SG1, that would be way beyond my capabilities.

FF

[discodiva]

Steady on girl....you're talking sense there.....I blame the heat myself!.....


I make no apologies for my dislike of the way that any romantic "relationships" have been written on Stargate....I find only the Daniel/Shau're partnership to have been written with any sensitivity and understanding and that, imho, was due to the fact that it had already been established beautifully in the film and it was very hard for the writers to "muck it up"......as for the others, well if certain people on here have their own perceptions of me and my supposed reasons for disliking S/J ship then so be it......I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it.....got far more important things in my real life to lose sleep over than some TV program and its fandom....


As for the characters.....well there are times when every single one sends me screaming for the hills over the stupid way they've been written and equally sometimes each one of them has me cheering in my seats at how bloody wonderful they are......and that's ALL of them........and there really should be a Janet Frasier icon....


Deeds xx

[Frostfox]

Oh what nonsense. I don't mind debate, but I wish fans would stick to their own perspectives and opinions instead of making sweeping statements and generalizations about other people's opinions.

EDIT: Not directed at you Frostfox, in case it came across that way.

That's okay, hon, I didn't think it was.

I just get tired of the "I respect their opinion, they are perfectly entitled to it, BUT... I'm going to give a reason why they are wrong and I am right, right, right anyway".
The only 'BUT' I have is 'but my opinion is just as valid'.

FF

[Aragon101]

Apparently, our well thought out and well argued reasons for finding Sam/Jack risible all boil down to us being 'incredibly sexist' and is all about the power dynamic between the characters. It's nice to know our place.

Strangely, I thought our discussions about how male writers have been treating a female character had been even handed and fair, but perhaps we have been mistaken and have been bashing the character, while seeing Jack as blameless, all along? I thought that power dynamics was just one of myriad reasons why S/J was a train wreck of an attempt at a relationship, not that it was the crux of all our debates.

And how we are all slashers (sorry jckfan55 and Aragon101, hate to break the news you are slasher to you like this) and Sam gets in the way of our OTP, so we all drag her down and complain about her being SuperSam, when we give the boys a free pass. Because, you know, we always bash her here.

Yes, I have reported the posts in question to the mods, but, as they are still there 48 hours later (and getting support, of course) in a part of the forum where I feel it inappropriate to post a rebuttal, I thought I would discuss with you our dreadful tearing down of her character and our 'incredibly sexist' behaviour. So when did you last post some incredibly sexist, anti Sam discussion in this thread?

FF

Link?

[jckfan55]

Apparently, our well thought out and well argued reasons for finding Sam/Jack risible all boil down to us being 'incredibly sexist' and is all about the power dynamic between the characters. It's nice to know our place.

Strangely, I thought our discussions about how male writers have been treating a female character had been even handed and fair, but perhaps we have been mistaken and have been bashing the character, while seeing Jack as blameless, all along? I thought that power dynamics was just one of myriad reasons why S/J was a train wreck of an attempt at a relationship, not that it was the crux of all our debates.

And how we are all slashers (sorry jckfan55 and Aragon101, hate to break the news you are slasher to you like this) and Sam gets in the way of our OTP, so we all drag her down and complain about her being SuperSam, when we give the boys a free pass. Because, you know, we always bash her here.

Yes, I have reported the posts in question to the mods, but, as they are still there 48 hours later (and getting support, of course) in a part of the forum where I feel it inappropriate to post a rebuttal, I thought I would discuss with you our dreadful tearing down of her character and our 'incredibly sexist' behaviour. So when did you last post some incredibly sexist, anti Sam discussion in this thread?

FF

Fascinating. I must have been kidding myself. Considering that I'm one of the early members of the Sam's a Great Character Thread... (And check out my Sam-hating sig )

I love Sam. I love Jack. I don't love them *together.*

I'd have been all for Sam finding happiness in love (with Pete or some other non-team member) if we'd have gotten something decent written along those lines (and without going overboard on personal life stories). You know I had kind of wanted to see more on their personal lives--until we got what we got. Be careful what you wish for.

And I think we've been critical of the way tptb dealt with Jack too. Come on, I know the guy is uncomfortable expressing his feelings, but you'd think he'd have ultimately dealt with the situation squarely. Both of them would have. And actually Divide and Conquer should have put it to rest, imho.

It's one thing to say 'Sam is just pining for her boss, that's so weak and girlie' and something entirely different to say 'Sam is just pining for her boss, that's such a weak and girlie way of writing her, why didn't TPTB come up with something better'. The first assumes that Sam is a. real (!) and b. to be treated differently because she's the female, held to a higher standard, as it were. And could be, sexist.
The second expresses frustration that after decades of poor characterisation of women in SF as just the girlfriend, the love interest, the companion, TPTB kept perpetuating the theme with a genuinely interesting and 3 dimensional character [I]that they themselves had created in the first place[/I].


FF

Well said, as usual, FF.

Ah, well. People will think what they think. It's nice to have people here who may come from different perspectives but can get along in their common disappointment with the S/J situation.

[Aragon101]

As a rare pairings shipper (well not really, i just go with what feels right to me) none of the ships proported by TPTB have made much sense to me beyond the ones they didn't touch upon or wanted to.

Jack/Sara
Teal'c/Ish'ta
Sam/Just about anyone but Jack and Pete.
Daniel/Sha're - Sarah Gardner
John/Nancy (from SGA S4 Outcast)

Those are the only ones i think were at least half decently done, but very very underused. Romance is just so dreck on SG-1 that it's very sad. Bu then again i just remind myself. Ignorance is bliss. If i don't know what i'm watching makes no sense, then what's the harm?

It's lashing out at those who do i have a problem with. I'd love to see which thread this is you're speaking of FF.