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    Originally posted by jckfan55 View Post
    Fascinating. I must have been kidding myself. Considering that I'm one of the early members of the Sam's a Great Character Thread... (And check out my Sam-hating sig )

    I love Sam. I love Jack. I don't love them *together.*

    I'd have been all for Sam finding happiness in love (with Pete or some other non-team member) if we'd have gotten something decent written along those lines (and without going overboard on personal life stories). You know I had kind of wanted to see more on their personal lives--until we got what we got. Be careful what you wish for.

    And I think we've been critical of the way tptb dealt with Jack too. Come on, I know the guy is uncomfortable expressing his feelings, but you'd think he'd have ultimately dealt with the situation squarely. Both of them would have. And actually Divide and Conquer should have put it to rest, imho.



    Well said, as usual, FF.

    Ah, well. People will think what they think. It's nice to have people here who may come from different perspectives but can get along in their common disappointment with the S/J situation.
    I'm well known for my Sam hate too.
    Much as I like Jack (at times, when not being written as Dumb!Jack) alpha male action heroes are ten-a-penny in SF/action/adventure shows. Interesting, strong, unique female characters are much rarer (getting better all the time, thankfully, but so slowly) so seeing a bad job made of Jack's romantic life doesn't annoy me any way as much as the hatchet job of Sam's. In my reading of SG1's handling of relationships, the indignities and idiocy piled on to Sam, stings and annoys more than those done to Jack's.

    But because I'm incredibly sexist, that's all rubbish, really I hate Sam for getting in the way of Daniel/Jack.

    Like you, had it been done better, I wouldn't be any where near as critical, DS9 did relationships just fine, thank you. Clearly I am only 'incredibly sexist' in my criticism of SG1, not DS9.

    Originally posted by Aragon101 View Post
    It's lashing out at those who do i have a problem with. I'd love to see which thread this is you're speaking of FF.
    Nope, no links, I'm not interested in starting a Thread War, just disappointed that the Mods didn't uphold my complaint against the original post. And venting my frustration here, where we endeavour to vent our dissatisfaction with TPTB's handling of a relationship between two of their characters without descending into being rude or disrespectful to TPTB, the actors or fellow fans.

    FF
    sigpic

    Comment


      Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
      I'll take challenging, nuanced, clever TV over cliché, safe, dull TV every day. Leading man gets leading woman! Woo hoo! What an iconoclastic bit of writing that is, no one has ever done that on TV before. Yawn.
      This. I've found that a lot of people can't see my problem with this huge cliche... but it's so massively prevalent on TV that I can see it coming from ten miles off on a foggy day. Which makes it both predictable, cliched, and uninteresting to me. I'm generally not into writing that follows a formula that precisely (let alone such a tired formula). I will freely admit that I usually don't give such pairings a chance to grow on me... because I become bored with them in two second flat. If other people enjoy them, great. But it's usually not to my tastes.

      Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
      I find SG1 frustratingly lightweight at times. I suppose it's a balancing act, SG1 is famous for its humour and it's part of what made the show unique and such a long runner, but the characters (and actors) could have handled more weighty plotlines.
      Fanfic can cater for my need for deeper, gritter stories.
      This is actually a really good point. Oddly enough, fandom has largely ruined SG-1 for me, to the point where I haven't been able to stomach watching more than an occasional episode for about a year now. But not re-watching has given me some distance to think about it and realize exactly how campy and silly it was, right from the beginning. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I enjoy a great amount of diversity in my sci-fi and I can even put up with some pretty sloppy writing on occasion if there's something in the show to catch my attention. But SG-1 was never focused on heavy themes and emotionally impacting storylines. Actually, it wasn't usually all that good with "serious" emotion, at all. Forever in a Day, Meridian, Abyss, Changeling, Heroes... those are really the only serious episodes I can think of that handled heavy drama and emotions in a competent way.

      Now I don't mind a certain level of campy, silly, lighthearted fun in my sci-fi. I frequently enjoy it. But in retrospect, that's what SG-1 was for me, and when you try to mix in grandiose love-stories into that, it just comes off silly and sappy. Hence the reason I can't take Sam/Jack seriously. It's just too over-the-top chesey romance for me. Some shows can balance the silly/fun bits with the serious/heavy/emotionally-impacting bits. But SG-1 only rarely achieved that balance.

      Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
      Apparently, our well thought out and well argued reasons for finding Sam/Jack risible all boil down to us being 'incredibly sexist' and is all about the power dynamic between the characters. It's nice to know our place.
      Wait, huh? How is anything we've said sexist? Honestly, my reasons for disliking the way Sam was written and the way she was paired with Jack are firmly rooted in feminist theory. I've always said that Sam shouldn't need a guy in her life (because relegating her to a secondary role as "Jack's girlfriend" would be sexist) and that women in sci-fi should be allowed to be strong without having to be perfect and look/act like an idealized woman for the guys to droll over. You know, they should be allowed to be strong, but also be real. For me, that's the height of feminism. When we stop forcing women to play these perfect little roles in order to be acceptable, and just let them be people, with faults and strengths and quirks just like the guys are. Sam never worked that way for me because they were trying too hard to sell her as this awesome idealized woman.

      But maybe that's just the opinion of one crazy "anti-shipper."

      Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
      And how we are all slashers (sorry jckfan55 and Aragon101, hate to break the news you are slasher to you like this) and Sam gets in the way of our OTP, so we all drag her down and complain about her being SuperSam, when we give the boys a free pass. Because, you know, we always bash her here.
      Oh, guess that means I'm a slasher too. Huh, good to know. Okay, well I might support a slash pairing on a different TV show (of course, it happens to be canon on that show, but never mind those silly little details), so I'm sure that must make me a die-hard slasher on everything. Not surprisingly, I've had several people assume I was a slasher just because I dislike Sam/Jack. It's almost humorous, really, especially since I describe myself as a gen fan (NoRomo) for SG-1. Still, I started out as a Daniel/Sha're shipper and will probably stay that way forever.

      Originally posted by jckfan55 View Post
      And I think we've been critical of the way tptb dealt with Jack too. Come on, I know the guy is uncomfortable expressing his feelings, but you'd think he'd have ultimately dealt with the situation squarely. Both of them would have. And actually Divide and Conquer should have put it to rest, imho.
      I think at this point, I place more of the blame on Jack. He was the superior officer, he should have dealt with it responsibly, like an adult. End of story.
      Chief of the GGP (Gateworld Grammar Police). Punctuation is your friend. Use it!

      Great happy armies shall be gathered and trained to oppose all who embrace doubt. In the name of Hope, ships shall be built to carry our disciples out amongst the stars, and we will spread Optimism to all the doubters. The power of the Optimi will be felt far and wide, and the pessimists shall become positive-thinkers.
      Hallowed are the Optimi.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
        I'm well known for my Sam hate too.
        Much as I like Jack (at times, when not being written as Dumb!Jack) alpha male action heroes are ten-a-penny in SF/action/adventure shows. Interesting, strong, unique female characters are much rarer (getting better all the time, thankfully, but so slowly) so seeing a bad job made of Jack's romantic life doesn't annoy me any way as much as the hatchet job of Sam's. In my reading of SG1's handling of relationships, the indignities and idiocy piled on to Sam, stings and annoys more than those done to Jack's.

        But because I'm incredibly sexist, that's all rubbish, really I hate Sam for getting in the way of Daniel/Jack.

        Like you, had it been done better, I wouldn't be any where near as critical, DS9 did relationships just fine, thank you. Clearly I am only 'incredibly sexist' in my criticism of SG1, not DS9.



        Nope, no links, I'm not interested in starting a Thread War, just disappointed that the Mods didn't uphold my complaint against the original post. And venting my frustration here, where we endeavour to vent our dissatisfaction with TPTB's handling of a relationship between two of their characters without descending into being rude or disrespectful to TPTB, the actors or fellow fans.

        FF
        Not planning on starting one

        Just want to see what i've been called. I've had enough of ship wars. It's simple curiosity now. PM if you don't want to publicize it.
        Originally posted by Apostle's Message Redux
        Shepard understood. Given the situation, he wasn't sure that exposing the planet to this kind of secret was smart. Miranda had regaled him with stories of how horrible 20th century Earth sounded in her history lessons and it made him leery. "I agree, god knows what would happen if Grunt got loose."

        Joker snorted and muttered loudly. "Run! It's The Incredible Hulk! Kill it with fire!"
        Read the story ---- Apostle's Message Redux, ME/SG Crossover

        Comment


          Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
          This. I've found that a lot of people can't see my problem with this huge cliche... but it's so massively prevalent on TV that I can see it coming from ten miles off on a foggy day. Which makes it both predictable, cliched, and uninteresting to me. I'm generally not into writing that follows a formula that precisely (let alone such a tired formula). I will freely admit that I usually don't give such pairings a chance to grow on me... because I become bored with them in two second flat. If other people enjoy them, great. But it's usually not to my tastes.
          Oldest, saddest cliché on TV and one I have little inclination to watch. Life is too short to waste my time on drivel.
          But, of course, in reality I don't like it because I'd rather Daniel/Jack get together, obviously.

          Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
          This is actually a really good point. Oddly enough, fandom has largely ruined SG-1 for me, to the point where I haven't been able to stomach watching more than an occasional episode for about a year now. But not re-watching has given me some distance to think about it and realize exactly how campy and silly it was, right from the beginning. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I enjoy a great amount of diversity in my sci-fi and I can even put up with some pretty sloppy writing on occasion if there's something in the show to catch my attention. But SG-1 was never focused on heavy themes and emotionally impacting storylines. Actually, it wasn't usually all that good with "serious" emotion, at all. Forever in a Day, Meridian, Abyss, Changeling, Heroes... those are really the only serious episodes I can think of that handled heavy drama and emotions in a competent way.
          It was brought home for me recently by a LJ meme about favourite TV shows, all I could think of to say about SG1 was that the cast and crew clearly loved working together.
          It was fun, but can't hold a candle to something like Life on Mars, Queer as Folk, Son of God or Red Riding.

          Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
          Now I don't mind a certain level of campy, silly, lighthearted fun in my sci-fi. I frequently enjoy it. But in retrospect, that's what SG-1 was for me, and when you try to mix in grandiose love-stories into that, it just comes off silly and sappy. Hence the reason I can't take Sam/Jack seriously. It's just too over-the-top cheesy romance for me. Some shows can balance the silly/fun bits with the serious/heavy/emotionally-impacting bits. But SG-1 only rarely achieved that balance.
          All their romances, except possibly the tiny glimpse we got of Jack/Sara and Daniel/Shar'e, were juvenile or melodrama. They were much much better at writing non-romantic relationships - Sam and Jacob was very well done, for example, that was a relationship I never tired of.
          SG1 was lightweight fun, for that, it was great. If you stop to analyse it too closely, it doesn't hold up very well.

          Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
          Wait, huh? How is anything we've said sexist? Honestly, my reasons for disliking the way Sam was written and the way she was paired with Jack are firmly rooted in feminist theory. I've always said that Sam shouldn't need a guy in her life (because relegating her to a secondary role as "Jack's girlfriend" would be sexist) and that women in sci-fi should be allowed to be strong without having to be perfect and look/act like an idealized woman for the guys to droll over. You know, they should be allowed to be strong, but also be real. For me, that's the height of feminism. When we stop forcing women to play these perfect little roles in order to be acceptable, and just let them be people, with faults and strengths and quirks just like the guys are. Sam never worked that way for me because they were trying too hard to sell her as this awesome idealized woman.

          But maybe that's just the opinion of one crazy "anti-shipper."
          But Jack it the uber-man, all women must fall down and worship at the glory of Jack/RDA. If you don't you are clearly not a True SG1 Fan. Questioning the glory of Sam/Jack makes any other argument or discussion invalid and deeply flawed.

          Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
          Oh, guess that means I'm a slasher too. Huh, good to know. Okay, well I might support a slash pairing on a different TV show (of course, it happens to be canon on that show, but never mind those silly little details), so I'm sure that must make me a die-hard slasher on everything. Not surprisingly, I've had several people assume I was a slasher just because I dislike Sam/Jack. It's almost humorous, really, especially since I describe myself as a gen fan (NoRomo) for SG-1. Still, I started out as a Daniel/Sha're shipper and will probably stay that way forever.
          All part of some deep slashy conspiracy, clearly, remember, Sam gets in the way of Jack/Daniel, that's what it's all about really.

          Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
          I think at this point, I place more of the blame on Jack. He was the superior officer, he should have dealt with it responsibly, like an adult. End of story.
          Naw, he was pining after Daniel, get with the programme, Khent!

          FF
          sigpic

          Comment


            Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
            It was brought home for me recently by a LJ meme about favourite TV shows, all I could think of to say about SG1 was that the cast and crew clearly loved working together.
            It was fun, but can't hold a candle to something like Life on Mars, Queer as Folk, Son of God or Red Riding.
            Yeah, that's sort of been my feeling as well when looking back on it with some distance. When I try to think of my favorite sci-fi shows and why I like them, I usually can just say that SG-1 was good for a laugh, lighthearted fun, some great one-liners, and awesome teamwork between the characters. But I won't hesitate to tell people that Doctor Who has much more depth to it.

            Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
            But Jack it the uber-man, all women must fall down and worship at the glory of Jack/RDA. If you don't you are clearly not a True SG1 Fan.
            I wish I could laugh at this... I really do. But too often I've had people say almost this exact thing to me. Somehow because I don't find RDA/Jack to be the epitome of hotness and awesomeness, I must be demented or something. And don't get me wrong, I love Jack's sarcasm (not his goofiness and random quips, but the real sarcasm) and I think RDA is awesome... especially as MacGyver. But Jack is not the be all and end all of SG-1 for me. In fact, I found that I could appreciate SG-1 even more without the distraction of his goofiness and the underlying indigestion... uh, I mean, romantic angst... he felt for Sam.

            Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
            All part of some deep slashy conspiracy, clearly, remember, Sam gets in the way of Jack/Daniel, that's what it's all about really.
            No, no, no. See the real problem is that Jack gets in the way of Sam/Barrett. Or was that Sam/Thor? I don't know, but surely it was one of those two pairings. Or maybe Sam gets in the way of Jack/Kerry. No wait, it's Jack/fishing! Yeah, that must be it. The real OTP of SG-1. All that time trying to get away to his cabin and go fishing, but the universe found ways to keep him away. It's a great story of star-crossed lovers.

            Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
            Naw, he was pining after Daniel, get with the programme, Khent!
            I thought we established that it was Teal'c pinning after Daniel? Or is that a different program? Help, I don't know which program to get on board with... so many to choose from!

            Wait! I've got it! The perfect set of pairings: Jack/fishing, Daniel/ascended-Sha're, Sam/Cameron, Teal'c/Vala. There you go! Everyone's happy. Ok, well, maybe not everyone, but at least I'm happy.
            Chief of the GGP (Gateworld Grammar Police). Punctuation is your friend. Use it!

            Great happy armies shall be gathered and trained to oppose all who embrace doubt. In the name of Hope, ships shall be built to carry our disciples out amongst the stars, and we will spread Optimism to all the doubters. The power of the Optimi will be felt far and wide, and the pessimists shall become positive-thinkers.
            Hallowed are the Optimi.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
              Yeah, that's sort of been my feeling as well when looking back on it with some distance. When I try to think of my favorite sci-fi shows and why I like them, I usually can just say that SG-1 was good for a laugh, lighthearted fun, some great one-liners, and awesome teamwork between the characters. But I won't hesitate to tell people that Doctor Who has much more depth to it.
              TV is not my favourite medium for SF, not by a very long chalk, I'm a book girl (she typed, eyeing the wall o' books opposite her with love and affection). I'm not much of a TV person at all (spent most of the evening in the garden, listening to Fairport Convention, drinking a chilled rosé and reading a friend's very satisfying second novel).

              Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
              I wish I could laugh at this... I really do. But too often I've had people say almost this exact thing to me. Somehow because I don't find RDA/Jack to be the epitome of hotness and awesomeness, I must be demented or something. And don't get me wrong, I love Jack's sarcasm (not his goofiness and random quips, but the real sarcasm) and I think RDA is awesome... especially as MacGyver. But Jack is not the be all and end all of SG-1 for me. In fact, I found that I could appreciate SG-1 even more without the distraction of his goofiness and the underlying indigestion... uh, I mean, romantic angst... he felt for Sam.
              Even RDA didn't think Jack was the be all and end all of SG1, bless him.

              Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
              No, no, no. See the real problem is that Jack gets in the way of Sam/Barrett. Or was that Sam/Thor? I don't know, but surely it was one of those two pairings. Or maybe Sam gets in the way of Jack/Kerry. No wait, it's Jack/fishing! Yeah, that must be it. The real OTP of SG-1. All that time trying to get away to his cabin and go fishing, but the universe found ways to keep him away. It's a great story of star-crossed lovers.

              I thought we established that it was Teal'c pinning after Daniel? Or is that a different program? Help, I don't know which program to get on board with... so many to choose from!

              Wait! I've got it! The perfect set of pairings: Jack/fishing, Daniel/ascended-Sha're, Sam/Cameron, Teal'c/Vala. There you go! Everyone's happy. Ok, well, maybe not everyone, but at least I'm happy.
              Some one once said Sam's eyes are on Jack, Jack's eyes are on Daniel and Daniel's eyes are on that really interesting stele over there. "Indeed," says Teal'c.

              FF
              sigpic

              Comment


                Oh dear. Is someone being wrong on the internet again? Is it us? Oh dear....


                Originally posted by discodiva View Post
                I make no apologies for my dislike of the way that any romantic "relationships" have been written on Stargate....I find only the Daniel/Shau're partnership to have been written with any sensitivity and understanding and that, imho, was due to the fact that it had already been established beautifully in the film and it was very hard for the writers to "muck it up"....Deeds xx
                This.

                Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
                I just get tired of the "I respect their opinion, they are perfectly entitled to it, BUT... I'm going to give a reason why they are wrong and I am right, right, right anyway".
                The only 'BUT' I have is 'but my opinion is just as valid'.

                FF
                THIS.

                Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
                Wait, huh? How is anything we've said sexist? Honestly, my reasons for disliking the way Sam was written and the way she was paired with Jack are firmly rooted in feminist theory. I've always said that Sam shouldn't need a guy in her life (because relegating her to a secondary role as "Jack's girlfriend" would be sexist) and that women in sci-fi should be allowed to be strong without having to be perfect and look/act like an idealized woman for the guys to droll over. You know, they should be allowed to be strong, but also be real. For me, that's the height of feminism. When we stop forcing women to play these perfect little roles in order to be acceptable, and just let them be people, with faults and strengths and quirks just like the guys are. Sam never worked that way for me because they were trying too hard to sell her as this awesome idealized woman.

                But maybe that's just the opinion of one crazy "anti-shipper."
                THIS.

                Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
                Some one once said Sam's eyes are on Jack, Jack's eyes are on Daniel and Daniel's eyes are on that really interesting stele over there. "Indeed," says Teal'c.

                FF
                Aaaaand this.


                Seriously, any polemic that includes sweeping generalisations is pretty redundant.

                Do I dislike Jack/Sam? Yes. Am I slasher? Yes. I also read and write het and gen in SG-1 and I love the team above all else. Heaven only knows where I fit into those sweeping generalizations. Because, obviously, we all have to fit somewhere. Apparently. Actually, I prefer not to fit. That way, I can go on my own little way, doing my own thing. And not have to prove I'm right, right, right.

                *sigh*

                Comment


                  Originally posted by jdjunkie View Post
                  Seriously, any polemic that includes sweeping generalisations is pretty redundant.

                  Do I dislike Jack/Sam? Yes. Am I slasher? Yes. I also read and write het and gen in SG-1 and I love the team above all else. Heaven only knows where I fit into those sweeping generalizations. Because, obviously, we all have to fit somewhere. Apparently. Actually, I prefer not to fit. That way, I can go on my own little way, doing my own thing. And not have to prove I'm right, right, right.

                  *sigh*
                  It's nice to have a thread where we can have an intelligent discussion without having to pander to delicate little snowflakes who have to be the centre of attention and whose opinion is very important. Everyone's opinion here carries equal weight.

                  We can debate, dissect and discuss without drama and rancor and without disrespecting the actors, crew, TPTB or, just as importantly, fellow fans.

                  FF
                  Last edited by Frostfox; 11 July 2010, 09:10 AM. Reason: a surfit of nox
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                    Well i disrespect TPTB somewhat but S/J is only partially the reason so i rarely bring it up

                    The cast/crew have no animosity from me Hell they SOLD the show to me with their quality work

                    Sam/Jack is pretty much - IMO at least - a symbol of how if it's on TV, it MUST be true. Who cares about whether it's 'realistic' or 'believable' or not? Two people were acting the scripts written by a bunch of middle aged men with issues who were writing for 'beautiful' people. so anything they write MUST be taken as fact!

                    I wonder, if a panel of say a thousand writing professors were to examine SG-1's dramatic story, how many would say it was a well thought out and well told story?

                    I don't deny that it has it's allure, it's just like Twilight IMO, a story that doesn't make sense, but because it's so "SQUEE!!!!" the 'mainstream' market buys into it. It's not a fault to like Sam/Jack, but i DO think it's a fault to excuse away bad writing.

                    That's just it. i don't have the romantic ship because i hate teh characters, quite the opposite. I hate that the characters have been trimmed down to simply a wang and a coochie snoochie. If you look at a Season 3-4 Sam versus a Seaosn 7-10 Sam, it's like looking at two completely different characters!

                    It's hard to talk about the ship and it's failings without offending people. That is NOT the point of being an "anti". i don't give two ****s about the fans qho like S/J, but i do care about quality entertainment and that is sadly, something S/J is NOT. It's a ship born out of the need for middle aged writers to live vicariously and 'get the stunning blonde beauty 15 years younger'.

                    Is there attraction? Sure! Is there friendship? Hell yes! Do i think there's a possibility of a romantic side to them? Not a healthy one.

                    I think TPTB see this too, and that's why they jumped into SGU with TJ and Young already established and in trouble. It's a knee jerk reaction to try and save what little respect they still have. And they're STILL being asked "WHEN ARE SAM/JACK MAKING BABIES!!!?!??!!?"
                    Originally posted by Apostle's Message Redux
                    Shepard understood. Given the situation, he wasn't sure that exposing the planet to this kind of secret was smart. Miranda had regaled him with stories of how horrible 20th century Earth sounded in her history lessons and it made him leery. "I agree, god knows what would happen if Grunt got loose."

                    Joker snorted and muttered loudly. "Run! It's The Incredible Hulk! Kill it with fire!"
                    Read the story ---- Apostle's Message Redux, ME/SG Crossover

                    Comment


                      No, no, no. See the real problem is that Jack gets in the way of Sam/Barrett. Or was that Sam/Thor?
                      Now you're talking!

                      http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/8...eciation/page4

                      that was a fun thread.
                      Last edited by jckfan55; 11 July 2010, 11:32 AM. Reason: fix quote

                      Comment


                        Sam/Thor can work Thor needs to test his new 'genetic' modifications, and Sam loves working on Asgard... technology

                        Oddly enough, is S/J really so sad that THOR has a better chance with her in our minds? That's...hilariously cruel

                        And Sam and Barret
                        Originally posted by Apostle's Message Redux
                        Shepard understood. Given the situation, he wasn't sure that exposing the planet to this kind of secret was smart. Miranda had regaled him with stories of how horrible 20th century Earth sounded in her history lessons and it made him leery. "I agree, god knows what would happen if Grunt got loose."

                        Joker snorted and muttered loudly. "Run! It's The Incredible Hulk! Kill it with fire!"
                        Read the story ---- Apostle's Message Redux, ME/SG Crossover

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Aragon101 View Post
                          Is there attraction? Sure! Is there friendship? Hell yes! Do i think there's a possibility of a romantic side to them? Not a healthy one.
                          That's it, short and sweet, imho.

                          Comment


                            Sorry for the mulitple posts but I lost the part that was my brilliant response to Khent, but here goes my (pithier) reconstruction:

                            1.Khent you *are* demented for not thinking RDA is smokin'.

                            2. I think Sam would find Jack's "humor" annoying as often as she'd find it amusing. Or am I projecting? I love Jack's comments, but I found him getting sillier by the later seasons.

                            3. The writers handled fairly light scifi with some thought provoking premises (though not always highly original, they put their SG twist on them). They wrote good team friendship--really brought to life by the cast. imho they just couldn't do believable romantic relationships (for any characters--though I could believe Jack and Sara had been together in the past) and should have stayed away from them.


                            Also: though a pro-ship post has re-invigorated us, I hope we can avoid getting into attack on others mode.
                            Last edited by jckfan55; 11 July 2010, 11:46 AM. Reason: add

                            Comment


                              I don't think anyone here actually cares enough to want to attack others. we're just expressing our dissatisfaction with an aspect of a show we otherwise love It's just that when we're generalized, we like to get together and laugh about it since we're obviously all slashers and haters and sexist beyond belief

                              my issues with TPTB are far more widespread than just S/J. I actually kinda respect them for doing TJ/Young and making it seem 'bad' It's nice to see these guys finally dealing with 'unhealthy' relationships in a long term basis, i just wish they'd put more thought into it.
                              Originally posted by Apostle's Message Redux
                              Shepard understood. Given the situation, he wasn't sure that exposing the planet to this kind of secret was smart. Miranda had regaled him with stories of how horrible 20th century Earth sounded in her history lessons and it made him leery. "I agree, god knows what would happen if Grunt got loose."

                              Joker snorted and muttered loudly. "Run! It's The Incredible Hulk! Kill it with fire!"
                              Read the story ---- Apostle's Message Redux, ME/SG Crossover

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Aragon101 View Post
                                Well i disrespect TPTB somewhat but S/J is only partially the reason so i rarely bring it up

                                The cast/crew have no animosity from me Hell they SOLD the show to me with their quality work

                                Sam/Jack is pretty much - IMO at least - a symbol of how if it's on TV, it MUST be true. Who cares about whether it's 'realistic' or 'believable' or not? Two people were acting the scripts written by a bunch of middle aged men with issues who were writing for 'beautiful' people. so anything they write MUST be taken as fact!

                                I wonder, if a panel of say a thousand writing professors were to examine SG-1's dramatic story, how many would say it was a well thought out and well told story?

                                I don't deny that it has it's allure, it's just like Twilight IMO, a story that doesn't make sense, but because it's so "SQUEE!!!!" the 'mainstream' market buys into it. It's not a fault to like Sam/Jack, but i DO think it's a fault to excuse away bad writing.

                                That's just it. i don't have the romantic ship because i hate teh characters, quite the opposite. I hate that the characters have been trimmed down to simply a wang and a coochie snoochie. If you look at a Season 3-4 Sam versus a Seaosn 7-10 Sam, it's like looking at two completely different characters!

                                It's hard to talk about the ship and it's failings without offending people. That is NOT the point of being an "anti". i don't give two ****s about the fans qho like S/J, but i do care about quality entertainment and that is sadly, something S/J is NOT. It's a ship born out of the need for middle aged writers to live vicariously and 'get the stunning blonde beauty 15 years younger'.

                                Is there attraction? Sure! Is there friendship? Hell yes! Do i think there's a possibility of a romantic side to them? Not a healthy one.

                                I think TPTB see this too, and that's why they jumped into SGU with TJ and Young already established and in trouble. It's a knee jerk reaction to try and save what little respect they still have. And they're STILL being asked "WHEN ARE SAM/JACK MAKING BABIES!!!?!??!!?"
                                I'm often critical of things I enjoy, I seldom accept any media as perfect, no art is above criticism.

                                I have respect for TPTB, it can't be easy churning out 10+ years of scripts. I just don't have blind acceptance that everything they ever consigned to screen is brilliant.
                                I don't have any friends in the media, with the exception of a sometime Dr Who writer, most of my author friends work in print, not TV. And all my friends and I talk about things other than their work when we get together, the kids/cats/husband/wife/job/whatever, is more likely to get conversation than work.

                                Sadly, in 10 years time, SG1 won't be discussed as a topic in academia or even amongst the SF community, it wasn't ground breaking or brilliant enough. Good, solid, harmless, entertainment? Yes. Iconoclastic, groundbreaking TV? No.

                                Originally posted by jckfan55 View Post
                                Sorry for the mulitple posts but I lost the part that was my brilliant response to Khent, but here goes my (pithier) reconstruction:

                                1.Khent you *are* demented for not thinking RDA is smokin'.

                                2. I think Sam would find Jack's "humor" annoying as often as she'd find it amusing. Or am I projecting? I love Jack's comments, but I found him getting sillier by the later seasons.

                                3. The writers handled fairly light scifi with some thought provoking premises (though not always highly original, they put their SG twist on them). They wrote good team friendship--really brought to life by the cast. imho they just couldn't do believable romantic relationships (for any characters--though I could believe Jack and Sara had been together in the past) and should have stayed away from them.

                                Also: though a pro-ship post has re-invigorated us, I hope we can avoid getting into attack on others mode.
                                The cast were wonderful. The crew were dedicated. It was clearly a great place to work and gave Amanda, Michael and Chris a great start to careers, in part due to RDA's mentoring of them.
                                Just because I don't rate it as brilliant TV, doesn't mean I don't think it wasn't a good show.

                                FF
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