Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Akamaimom]

Like I said in my edit, Hedwig--someone with more sleep than I!!! My daughter is having a sleepover with her cousin, and they were up at 4 AM, after having gone to sleep FINALLY at 11:30. I am really tired!

[Petra]

I think if Jack were in a meeting, or had to go to a meeting, or needed to write a memo, etc. he would be bored.

Quite possibly

I would like to have seen an episode that was more or less devoted to explaining those roles better while SG1 was on base rather than on a mission.

Me too. It would have been interesting.

Maybe especially what Teal'c did besides sitting in his room, amongst all those candles, kel-no-reeming. I always thought it was a wonder the fire alarms didn't go off with all those lit candles in such a small space.

LOL. I always wondered how did he manage to blow out all those candles fast enough to get to the control/gate room whenever there was an emergency.

This actually brings up a salient point. In "Prodigy", () when the Chief of Staff arrived on base, Jack mentioned something about not getting his memos. Do you all think this is because he doesn't bother checking them, or that modern technological capabilities aren't something of which he readily avails himself? For example--he has email, but doesn't like logging in, or he doesn't know how?

I find the idea of Jack - or any AF colonel - being considered stupid enough to not know how to check his e-mails slightly insulting. C'mone, he wouldn't have gotten his eagles/stars if he didn't have basic skills re working on a computer. Besides in CotG - back in 1997 when laptops weren't all that common - he already had one and was using it along with his telescope. Technically illiterate person wouldn't do that.

I also think that he's responsible enough to check his messages and the whole I'm-not-getting-my-memos thing is a joke on his part, just another way to make himself appear dumber than he really is.

[Akamaimom]

I find the idea of Jack - or any AF colonel - being considered stupid enough to not know how to check his e-mails slightly insulting. C'mone, he wouldn't have gotten his eagles/stars if he didn't have basic skills re working on a computer. Besides in CotG - back in 1997 when laptops weren't all that common - he already had one and was using it along with his telescope. Technically illiterate person wouldn't do that.

I also think that he's responsible enough to check his messages and the whole I'm-not-getting-my-memos thing is a joke on his part, just another way to make himself appear dumber than he really is.

I agree--but this seems to be a running joke. There are various places where this happens. And with the Chief of Staff showing up in Prodigy (although wouldn't you like to see an episode called "Progeny" in SG-1? It would finally settle the debate of what they named their kids. . .if they had any. . . ), he seems genuinely nonplussed. He would have been told the General would be there. He would have known. If anything, he should have been shown acknowledging the joke. So--if he's computer literate, then that means that he's purposefully not checking his emails, or not checking whatever in box that he has.

Which makes him. . .What?

I DON'T think that Jack's stupid. I have never even remotely believed that. But I know many, many people who don't care enough about tech to learn it--astronomy laptop notwithstanding. (He cares about astronomy. It could be that he put himself out to learn that because he likes it.)

And remember when he's thinking about the General thing (Lost City-ish)--and he mentions that he doesn't have a desk? Sam tells him that he does have one, and he is again, genuinely surprised. What does this say about his character?

Obviously, if he's risen through the ranks through the years, he's smart. He's written his mission reports (Citizen Joe), but he puts off other tasks (personnel files--Zero Hour). He's somewhat of a dichotomy, when all is added up.

[hedwig]

Qu
LOL. I always wondered how did he manage to blow out all those candles fast enough to get to the control/gate room whenever there was an emergency.

I can see it now. Big emergency. Teal'c races out of his room to the control room to see what's going on. The fire alarm goes off a few minutes later. Everybody looks at Teal'c, and Jack says something like "you forgot to blow out the candles again, didn't you?"

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

On the subject of Jack being 2IC, see A Matter of Time ("In the meantime, Colonel..." "Understood, Sir."), and Chain of Command (in the gateroom, when it's Jack calling ten-hut and at ease).

Not that those two instances make it official.

Seaboe

[EvenstarSRV]

Ah but there's a whole shipper section which is just devoted to the ANGST!!!

I've seen sigs referring to a 'cave of angst'. Sounds like a scary place.

Like you I just don't see Sam and Jack as characters playing head-games deliberately or planning to play head-games either.

People set out with good intentions. For me, Jack decides to protect Sam (and the rest of his team) better by stepping back from the very obvious flirting and admiration of her after Entity and Sam understands that. They do effectively prioritise their working relationship and shift to being friends through S5-S6. So far so good.

But where you and I differ is in whether during that time (a year and a half at this point), Sam and Jack continue to *know* without a shadow of a doubt that through all that time that they both continue to love each other deep down as more than friends.

For me, they haven't spoken about their feelings during that time and can't speak about them so as time progresses, things happen and doubt creeps.

While I don't think they continued to believe it 'without a shadow of a doubt', and I also don't think Sam and Jack would need to often talk about their feelings in order to continue to believe in their existence. I don't feel that Sam or Jack are the type to fall in love or out of love easily (platonic or romantic), so I don't think it takes something rather drastic, like the events of Beneath the Surface or Entity, to remind each other of the other's feelings.

And I don't believe, as some shippers, that there was some promise of one day that was supposed to sustain them. In fact, I think that the shift to focusing on their working relationship and friendship was in part an attempt to move on from their romantic feelings. So to me they're not promised to each other and that opens the door for miscommunication, assumptions being jumped to and confusion.

For example, I think they miscommunicate over the events of S5's Ascension: I think Jack ends up thinking something happened with Orlin and Sam; Sam thinks Jack encouraged her to go on a date with another man and therefore doesn't see her as a romantic interest anymore.

And yet to me, the way you phrase that, it does come across like Sam and Jack think they are promised to each other, because it sounds like an either/or between Sam and Jack having feelings for each other and them being able to date other people.

So I think they have doubts - unplanned and definitely not deliberate but they do lead to the characters themselves miscommunicating with each other over things like fishing invites because Sam can't just come out and say "do you still love me and does this invite still mean that you still love me."

See, that comes across as a mind-game to me. Jack's 'I'm inviting you as a friend, but really I love you, but I can't say that so I'm saying I'm just your friend. If you say yes that means you also love me, and yet if you say no is it because you love me but spending time alone with me is improper or because you think of me just as friend?' and Sam's 'does your inviting me mean I'm just a friend, or does it mean that you still love me but you can't say that so you're just inviting me as a friend? If I say yes that means I love you too, but if I say no it's because I think spending time alone with you is improper but I still love you'. That goes beyond miscommunication to me and into a double-speak that I just don't see for the characters.

But even then people occasionally do manage to miscommunicate with each other regardless. For me Sam's "you always invite me when you know I have something" is someone who is frustrated about Jack's behaviour because she doesn't understand it. If he - regardless of shipping and just with the two of them as friends - really wanted her to go fishing with him than (as you and others have said), why not just invite her at a time when they could both go?

IMHO, the fishing invite became a sort of in-joke for Sam and Jack by Sight Unseen, Jack didn't really expect her to go fishing with him and neither did Sam, but it becomes something they can banter about hearkening back to the invites from Nemesis and Small Victories, before the revelations of D&C. That's why Jack's invite only really works for me if it's not meant seriously, if it was well I obviously have few issues with it.

I'm not touching the fishing discussion even with a 10-foot pole! My brain is fried and I don't even know what I think. I've been reading Rachel and Evenstar's posts and thinking they both have valid points. I'm back to my original assessment: my brain is fried and refuses to cooperate.

But imagine the fish you can catch with a pole that size!

You know, that's one more thing that's been bugging me about the show. Jack is 2IC of the base, he must have been left in charge quite a few times (when Hammond was on downtime for example) - it doesn't make sense that Jack is portrayed as having nothing to do apart from SG-1 missions. If anything, given all the paperwork and command decisions he must have been involved in he should be at least as busy as Sam and Daniel. Ditto on Teal'c, what with all the military trainings he must have given and received.

I've always felt that Jack was more Hammond's head trouble-shooter or lead of the SGC's version of an emergency response team. 2IC of a base like the SGC seems to be more of an administrative position, while as head trouble-shooter Jack would get called in for crisis situations and such outside of SG-1's scheduled missions.

As for seeing Jack doing paper work, from what I can currently recall he was reading files in the commissary in Urgo and Heroes, as well as going over new recruits' files in Proving Ground, again in the commissary. That's why Jack didn't know he had a desk, he just always worked in the commissary so he could be near all the pie.

[Schmacky]

Just really quickly... I haven't caught up on the last page and a half (and I swear, when I have more time I will actually partake in the real discussion here)....

I didn't mean that Daniel and Teal'c should have special treatment. And that they should get whatever they want or anything like that. I just meant I don't mind if Daniel and Teal'c are treated by Jack differently than any other civilian. Or Hammond for that matter. Nothing they've been "given" has been unfair to any other civilian. Nothing drastic. That's Jack's team. That's Hammond's flagship team. Like it or not, even in the military, there are perks to being the best.

As a member of the Air Force, I know all about the regs and fairness and what should or shouldn't happen. But I also know that when you have a close team, outsiders don't even come close. Jack will never treat other civilians the same as Daniel and Teal'c. He won't treat other officers the same as he does Carter. And it's not a bad thing. He knows these people, knows them as much as he knows himself. There is a trust. It's all about trust. A lot of real-world military units run like that. It takes time and effort on the "outsider" to get treated the same way as the inside team. And IMO, that's not a bad thing. Well, for me personally it's a bad thing because my job requires me to be the outsider all the time trying to weasel my way into that small group.. but I completely understand why it's like that and I don't think it's necessarily wrong.

Anyway, I'm sorry. This is probably all OT.

[Cagranosalis]

Anyone seen Toomi around? It's been a while, and I think it's her turn.

It is/was. Smoke & Mirrors, supposed to have been on Thursday. I don't know what's happened to Toomi?

If anyone else wants to have a go at it, or just discuss the episode, I'll kick it off here:

Banner by Josiane

Josi can you delay posting your next one by a day to give some discussion time to this one? No worries if you can't; we'll just do them in tandem.


I only have one thing to say about Smoke & Mirrors right now. Jack = Hot!


Yeah, shallow.

[Akamaimom]

& Mirrors[/i] right now. Jack = Hot!


Yeah, shallow.

Forgivable if it's true.

[hlndncr]

I'll take a crack at Smoke & Mirrors, get the ball rolling:

Summary(from GW ep guide)
Colonel O'Neill is charged with the murder of Senator Kinsey, and the rest of the team must uncover a conspiracy in order to clear his name.

Favorite Scene
“Jack” shoots Kinsey. As Cags pointed out, he looks good, and it’s just so satisfying seeing Kinsey go down.

Favorite Line
Barrett: Sometimes, you've gotta cross the line, Major. You've just gotta know when to step back. (It reminds me of angst.)

Generally
I look at this episode as a mirror image of Desperate Measures. In DM Jack went all out to find and rescue Sam, using whatever means necessary, including working with Maybourne. In S&M we have Sam doing whatever it takes to clear Jack and get him back, even if it means teaming up with someone from the NID she doesn't quite trust.

This story really is all about trust. The team doesn't trust their eyes or the evidence because they know Jack. (And at this point I have to wonder if Sam and Teal’c wish they had gone fishing with him.) As Sam points out, they have to trust one another with their lives every day, which forms a bond that can’t be understood by those on the outside. (I think Schmacky’s earlier comment is right on point here.) Although, I think it is interesting that Jonas, who has the lowest trust reservoir as the new guy, is the one who brings up the possibility that Jack may be involved in an undercover op (hearkening back to Shades of Grey), and he has to be brought in on the Foothold/mimic device history. So we see the Jonas is still working building those bonds of trust.

Then we have Sam and Barrett trying to develop enough trust to achieve both of their goals, for Sam freeing Jack and for Barrett cleaning out the NID (relatively speaking). And ironically when "The Committee" is taken down at the end of this episode it is later replaced by a similar shadow organization called "The Trust."

Sam and Barrett
As far as Sam’s “other love interests” go Barrett isn’t the worst of the lot, but I personally can’t see them together either. First, I look at their history. The first time they met, he held her at gun point and then essentially had his associates keep her in custody, and he said flat out that he doesn’t trust her. I think it would take a lot to get over that kind of first impression, especially as the antagonism continues in their next meeting at NID headquarters. While some of Barrett’s statements may have been for show because his office was bugged, Sam’s reactions were genuine. And even later when he asks her out in Resurrection he’s rather insulting to her when she turns him down. Some of that may have been to cover his embarrassment, but not completely pardonable IMO.

Add to that his association with the NID. Sam certainly hasn’t had good experiences there. She mentions the operation in Steveston (Nightwalkers) where she was goa’ulded (again), and she doesn’t hide her bitterness over the experience. Of course Barrett wasn’t directly responsible for that incident, but as he pointed out that one was actually a legitimate operation, just as shady even though not conducted by rogue elements.

This brings me to the second reason I don’t see them together, the differences in personality and mind-set. Barrett is comfortable operating in the seedy world of blackmail and illegal arms dealers; it is a game to be played. Sam understands secrecy yes, and she showed at the arms warehouse that she can play the game when the stakes are high enough. But even her approach with the arms dealer was more straight forward. She declared who she was (a Major in the USAF) and even tried to appeal to his conscience at first. Barrett says it’s OK to cross the line if you know when to step back. But I think Sam has been stepping along some lines for quite awhile and she understands the danger involved with that kind of thinking in a very personal way.

I do have to compare Barrett to Narim at this point. It seems like an odd comparison I realize, but I see them as being on the opposite sides of the spectrum. I could never see Sam interested in Narim because he was too much of a rule follower. OTH I can’t see Sam with Barrett because he finds it to natural to be a rule-breaker.

So what makes Jack different? For me, Jack is a combination of honor and risk taking that falls somewhere in the middle of this spectrum. He has done “some damn distasteful things” in the past, all under orders and in service to his country. But I think he is troubled by the shady dealings of his past and wants to move away from them.

I have always seen Barrett’s interest in Sam as being entirely one-sided, if for no other reason than timing. Here, Sam is intent on proving Jack’s innocence. I don’t even think she recognizes Barrett’s interest in her beginning to blossom. She sees this as a working relationship, maybe a little more friendly, but definitely not personal. We don’t have any indication that there is any further contact between them until she contacts him again in Heroes to get information on Woolsey, again as business transaction. And personal overtones would have been inappropriate and far from her mind then anyway because she just lost her best friend and almost lost Jack again. Then they meet up again in Resurrection, where he asks her out (something of a surprise to her I think) and she points that she’s seeing someone. There just doesn’t seem like there was ever any real opening for him, and frankly, I’m fine with that.

Sam and Jack
While these two don’t have a lot of screen time together in this episode I see it as being very shippy because of Sam’s fierce determination and relentless quest to clear him. Her first statement on the subject is, “There's no way Colonel O'Neill could've done this,” and she never waivers from that position. She doesn’t need to know anything else because she knows him. (“When you work with someone that long, you just know.”)

Yes, I think she would have given the same benefit of the doubt to Jonas and Teal’c and I think she would have worked equally hard to clear them, but for me her actions are all tinged with an additional edge of desperation because it is Jack. For example, when the arms dealer identifies Jack as the one who purchased the supposed murder weapon, Sam lets some of her distress show.

In the end DM and S&M shows me that Sam and Jack have a solid foundation of trust in one another that shows in their actions. They believe in each other, look out for each other, go the mat and save the day when the other needs them. It’s who they are, and it’s what they do.

[Rachel500]

We are never told on the show that Jack has a break and that's why he visits others. And it's TPTB conscious decision to show them working while he isn't. I don't need to see him working, little mention once in a while - when others are talking about their work for example - of his duties would have been enough.

And personally I'd be happy to watch him reading phone book for the entire ep, let alone work in cafeteria

You are right. Jack being 2IC of the base is fanon, just like Daniel being the Head of Archeology Department or Sam being the head scientist of the SGC - none of these things has ever been confirmed onscreen. But given the attitude of the base personnel towards him it makes sense, IMO.

[/SIZE]

I agree. The Other Side is the perfect example of how it can be implied that Jack had as much work as the rest of his team. But on the other hand we have episodes like PonR, when Sam, Daniel and Teal'c are all impatient for the briefing to start because they must go back to their work and they list all the things they were doing earlier while Jack basically says he was doing nothing and is bored. All I'm saying is that it would have been nice to hear something like "I was in the meeting with other SG team leaders" or something.

Just using your quote to respond in general to the debate.

I tend to think Jack checking in with his team-mates is him working. Isn't that part of the job as team-leader to check in and ensure the team is OK/getting a break if they need it/having a sounding board if they want one? So, for me when Jack is checking in with the team, that is him working. It's not just because he has nothing better to do than bother them.

I also think that there's a difference between officially being the next in the chain of command due to rank, and having additional operational responsibilities for the base that probably came with being Hammond's official deputy. It's likely there was an official operational command structure outside of the SG teams (we see in Heroes that they have a PR man) that may or may not have included a colonel at or above Jack's rank/time in grade; someone that was in command during the night shifts, for example. For me, Jack is too overwhelmed by the sheer amount of work in assuming the command of the SGC for him to have been very exposed to it prior to S8 - which as an official deputy/base operations staff he surely would have been.

I rather see Jack though as the squadron leader for the SG teams (hence why he led the greet to Bauer), a role that seems to go to Reynolds in S8/S9/S10. And I do think Jack would occasionally if rarely have deputised for Hammond and had command of the base for experience (Hammond did leave him in charge in A Matter of Time although I tend to put that down to the fact that it was a crisis situation) just as Sam and Reynolds apparently did in S10.

I'm generally of the opinion that the scene in Progeny was written with the express purpose of providing a scene for the visiting real AF General rather than with respect for Jack as a character (because why would he need to be told what his team were doing, for instance) so I tend to put it down to a miscommunication - perhaps his memos - electronic or otherwise - really had gone astray. For me, the additional mention in Entity(?) is clearly meant to be a joke.

And as for the "uh, you have a desk"/"I do?" exchange in New Order, I tend to write that off to both Sam and Jack teasing each other a little over his "I'd have a desk" remark because while it's shown that Jack usually does his paperwork in the mess with some dessert at his side to sweeten the deal, it's highly unlikely he didn't have an official office somewhere in the SGC even if he rarely used it (after all, Sheppard gets a huge office all to himself in SGA's The Return).

But all views are valid given it is one of the many, many things left ambiguous.

[Rachel500]

And yet to me, the way you phrase that, it does come across like Sam and Jack think they are promised to each other, because it sounds like an either/or between Sam and Jack having feelings for each other and them being able to date other people.

I think we have different views about what being promised means.

For me, a promise is an explicit and verbally expressed wish to remain monogamous to each other between two people who love each other. For me, Sam and Jack never make such a promise.

As to the bolded, generally, isn't that the case in all relationships? That if someone is in love romantically with someone else, even if its unrequited, we generally don't expect them to be dating other people?

OT Personal

Spoiler:

Maybe for me it's a personal thing but I know I didn't date someone else until I had really "moved on" and accepted that I would only have friendship with my first love. And knowing he had started seeing someone else definitely suggested to me that he no longer felt romantically inclined towards me. Did I think he still loved me in some way? Definitely as a friend but I assumed no longer as a "love."

See, that comes across as a mind-game to me. Jack's 'I'm inviting you as a friend, but really I love you, but I can't say that so I'm saying I'm just your friend. If you say yes that means you also love me, and yet if you say no is it because you love me but spending time alone with me is improper or because you think of me just as friend?' and Sam's 'does your inviting me mean I'm just a friend, or does it mean that you still love me but you can't say that so you're just inviting me as a friend? If I say yes that means I love you too, but if I say no it's because I think spending time alone with you is improper but I still love you'. That goes beyond miscommunication to me and into a double-speak that I just don't see for the characters.

Again, we differ here because mind-games for me equals intent to play said mind-games. I don't think Jack intends to play mind-games with Sam so there are no mind-games for me - just miscommunication because they can't talk openly about it, they make assumptions about what the other means, and what they hope it means and therein lies the problem.

[josiane]

It is/was. Smoke & Mirrors, supposed to have been on Thursday. I don't know what's happened to Toomi?

If anyone else wants to have a go at it, or just discuss the episode, I'll kick it off here:

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...andmirrors.jpg
Banner by Josiane

Josi can you delay posting your next one by a day to give some discussion time to this one? No worries if you can't; we'll just do them in tandem.


I only have one thing to say about Smoke & Mirrors right now. Jack = Hot!


Yeah, shallow.

Certainly I can And yeah, that's the first thing that comes to mind for me too for this ep
Not to mention for the next one, which is going to make writing the review fun... can I find anything to say that isn't just mindless drooling and thunking?

I'll take a crack at Smoke & Mirrors, get the ball rolling:

Generally
I look at this episode as a mirror image of Desperate Measures. In DM Jack went all out to find and rescue Sam, using whatever means necessary, including working with Maybourne. In S&M we have Sam doing whatever it takes to clear Jack and get him back, even if it means teaming up with someone from the NID she doesn't quite trust.

Absolutely, me too. The scene where Sam turns up to talk to Barrett is particularly reminiscent of Jack going to see Simmons when Sam's missing, visually as well as in terms of plot.

Sam and Barrett
As far as Sam’s “other love interests” go Barrett isn’t the worst of the lot, but I personally can’t see them together either. First, I look at their history. The first time they met, he held her at gun point and then essentially had his associates keep her in custody, and he said flat out that he doesn’t trust her. I think it would take a lot to get over that kind of first impression, especially as the antagonism continues in their next meeting at NID headquarters. While some of Barrett’s statements may have been for show because his office was bugged, Sam’s reactions were genuine. And even later when he asks her out in Resurrection he’s rather insulting to her when she turns him down. Some of that may have been to cover his embarrassment, but not completely pardonable IMO.

Add to that his association with the NID. Sam certainly hasn’t had good experiences there. She mentions the operation in Steveston (Nightwalkers) where she was goa’ulded (again), and she doesn’t hide her bitterness over the experience. Of course Barrett wasn’t directly responsible for that incident, but as he pointed out that one was actually a legitimate operation, just as shady even though not conducted by rogue elements.

This brings me to the second reason I don’t see them together, the differences in personality and mind-set. Barrett is comfortable operating in the seedy world of blackmail and illegal arms dealers; it is a game to be played. Sam understands secrecy yes, and she showed at the arms warehouse that she can play the game when the stakes are high enough. But even her approach with the arms dealer was more straight forward. She declared who she was (a Major in the USAF) and even tried to appeal to his conscience at first. Barrett says it’s OK to cross the line if you know when to step back. But I think Sam has been stepping along some lines for quite awhile and she understands the danger involved with that kind of thinking in a very personal way.

I do find Barrett by far the most palatable of Sam's suitors, but I think that's mostly because his attitude to Sam is far more reasonable - he clearly likes her and would like to get to know her better, but there's none of that 'I really love you, look see/feel/remember how I feel, you must feel it too surely because I've shown you' creepy stuff that we get from Narim/Martouf/Orlin etc. I agree that as you say Barrett is not exactly a perfect match for Sam for all the reasons you list, but I think a relationship with him would have been less unhealthy from the start than if she'd given in to any of the others.

I do have to compare Barrett to Narim at this point. It seems like an odd comparison I realize, but I see them as being on the opposite sides of the spectrum. I could never see Sam interested in Narim because he was too much of a rule follower. OTH I can’t see Sam with Barrett because he finds it to natural to be a rule-breaker.

Nice comparison! I'd never thought of that

Sam and Jack
While these two don’t have a lot of screen time together in this episode I see it as being very shippy because of Sam’s fierce determination and relentless quest to clear him. Her first statement on the subject is, “There's no way Colonel O'Neill could've done this,” and she never waivers from that position. She doesn’t need to know anything else because she knows him. (“When you work with someone that long, you just know.”)

Yes, I think she would have given the same benefit of the doubt to Jonas and Teal’c and I think she would have worked equally hard to clear them, but for me her actions are all tinged with an additional edge of desperation because it is Jack. For example, when the arms dealer identifies Jack as the one who purchased the supposed murder weapon, Sam lets some of her distress show.

Indeed, just as in DM Jack's actions are tinged with that little bit extra desperation because it's Sam. It's nothing they wouldn't do for Daniel and Teal'c, but their feelings just add that little buzz, almost.

In the end DM and S&M shows me that Sam and Jack have a solid foundation of trust in one another that shows in their actions. They believe in each other, look out for each other, go the mat and save the day when the other needs them. It’s who they are, and it’s what they do.

Exactly

[Rachel500]

Smoke and Mirrors

Great off-the-cuff review hlndncr!

Generally

I think my first thought on watching it so many years ago was: not another one without Jack being around. And I've come to appreciate the idea of it more as time has gone by. But I'm still very meh about it (although I love the interrogation scene with Teal'c).

Clearly there is meant to be an allusion to Sam/Barrett on his part (the whole covering her outside of the house explosion thing for one thing) but like hlndncr, I pretty much see it being one-sided with Sam's focus very much on freeing Jack and her appreciation for Barrett's help associated with that.

Sam and Jack

I think hlndncr pretty much said it all

I also view this now as the mirror of Desperate Measures, with Sam working to rescue Jack before its too late which does make it somewhat shippy.

I think my main disappointment is that there isn't a scene with Jack thanking the team (and Sam specifically) at the end rather than the whole public outing thing with Kinsey.

[Petra]

You know how I always praise season 6? Well, S&M is the one ep of this season that I can’t stand. There are some nice scenes (mainly Jonas/Janet/Teal’c stuff, plus the ending; I love Jack/Kinsey interplay at the end) and all SG-1 members look particularly good, and then there’s Jack in dress blues…*slide into gutter*…but I can’t get past mind-numbingly stupid plot which is frankly insulting to viewer’s intelligence. The idea of framing Jack for Kinsey’s murder and resolving the rogue NID plot for good (it was supposed to be the last season) is a good one, but its execution…

Spoilered for general S&M rant:

Spoiler:

Right, so Jack’s accused of murder based on one tape and testimony of one neighbor who is never again (or before) heard of. Who cares that Jack had spent who knows how many years in black ops, probably had been involved in some assassinations and therefore should be smart enough to NOT get himself filmed (c’mone, even I, if I ever planned to commit crime, would check for cameras) and NOT dump the murder weapon in a pond in front of my house. Oh, and there’s this delightful scene in which we are informed that the act of dumping was seen by some neighbor and yet in the next scene Jack says there’s no one around his cabin for some 20 miles or so. Also, we’ve never heard or seen any neighbours near the cabin. So who was the witness? Then there’a this little fact that trip from Colorado to Minnesota isn’t exactly short and I find it hard to believe that during his way up there and then back Jack didn’t stop even once for gas/groceries/drink (not to mention some motel), didn’t use his credit card or bathroom, that his car wasn’t spotted by any of the traffic cameras, etc.

And Barret? Some agent who in his first appearance in the series was insignificant enough to be left guarding Sam and Daniel (and failed at it, btw) is now important enough to be on a super secret mission from the White House that no one else knows about? Because he’s the only clean and trustworthy agent in the entire NID? How and when did this happen? Also, we only have his word for it; Sam doesn’t even bother checking if it’s true, but goes ahead and tells him the biggest secret of the SGC because he told her to trust him. Oh yeah, and Jonas remembers the SGC personnel better than Teal’c and Jack is insulted that his team would think he was on a secret mission even though they had every right to think so, given SoG events.

I’d better stop now. Honestly, there are so many plotholes and OTT and OOC behavior that I could rant for hours..

As for Sam and Jack, I don’t find S&M particularly shippy. I tend to see it as a team episode. Plus I’m one of those shippers who think Sam and Barret had good chemistry and I could see him as her love interest – certainly he would have been better than Pete. I agree that I never saw Sam, as portrayed in the series, interested in him romantically/sexually – that was entirely one-sided on his part. But out of all her suitors he’s the only one – besides Jack - I could see ina relationship with her. I don’t think she’d consider him too dangerous – I think Sam likes dangerous guys, which is part of the reason why I found her potential involvement with Narim/Martouf/Orlin and Pete so unbelievable.