Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hedwig]

Hedwig, what about when Teal'c turns up and zats the Jaffa when Daniel collapses in Upgrades? You don't consider that a last minute rescue?

I'm at home, so can't quote.

Seaboe

Ooops! I forgot that one. Sorry. I was browsing through my little booklet that came with the DVDs and picking out episodes that I remembered stuff from and that one slipped through the cracks. Although I would add a few more to the "nick of time/last second" rescues.

Maternal Instinct - glowy Oma rescues them by killing all the Jaffa
The Tomb - Ringing out at the last second before the tomb exploded
Descent - Thor rescues Sam and Jack as they are about to drown
Off the Grid - SG1 beamed away just as Lucian Alliance is about to kill them
The Scourge - SG1/IOA reps beamed off planet just as bugs were about to get them
Camelot - Cam escapes the Korolev in a 302 just as Korolev explodes
Flesh & Blood - Daniel saves himself from being blown up with the Korolev
Flesh & Blood - Daniel/Vala beamed off Ori ship as they were about to be killed
Company of Thieves - Daniel/Vala rescue Sam from being killed by Lucian Alliance bad guy by beaming bad guy off ship

And they kind of made fun of the last second rescues/nick of time in "200".

[Cagranosalis]

Oh nice list hedwig! You know your stuff.


As a percentage of all "nick of time" rescues, there's still 17 out of 200+ episodes/ten years. Across the 7 SG-1 regulars, that's not much so it's nice to see TPTB didn't overplay that line.



Awesome review of Unnatural Selection Petra. I'm tyring to find something to debate in it but I think I agree with pretty much everything you say and see there, but especially the comment about it being the perfect opportunity to explore more about who Jack, Sam, Jonas and Teal'c are. Jonas I can forgive us not knowing much at this point because he's the new guy still (and, sadly, wasn't around long enough to be adequately developed). We know most about Teal'c through all the Jaffa stories and most notably in Threshold (which gives us pretty much his entire history) and The Changeling. What we know of Sam is only titbits thrown in in various episodes as suited the whim of the episode; she has a brother/nephew and niece, her mom died when she was in her early teens, she was once engaged to Jonas Hanson and her dad was an Air Force officer - what else do we know? Not much. But that pales into insignificance by what we don't know about Jack! One of the biggest frustrations I have ever had about SG-1 is that TPTB often failed to commit the backstory stuff down for these characters and, quite often, that was left to the actors themselves to speculate on (I recall reading a paragraph somewhere where RDA had given his take on Jack's background but that's by no means canon). I understand why that might be (flexibility) but it would not have hurt them to have the bare basics like their dates of birth just, sort of agreed on somewhere.

[Akamaimom]

Ooops! I forgot that one. Sorry. I was browsing through my little booklet that came with the DVDs and picking out episodes that I remembered stuff from and that one slipped through the cracks. Although I would add a few more to the "nick of time/last second" rescues.

Maternal Instinct - glowy Oma rescues them by killing all the Jaffa
Descent - Thor rescues Sam and Jack as they are about to drown
Off the Grid - SG1 beamed away just as Lucian Alliance is about to kill them
The Scourge - SG1/IOA reps beamed off planet just as bugs were about to get them
Camelot - Cam escapes the Korolev in a 302 just as Korolev explodes
Flesh & Blood - Daniel saves himself from being blown up with the Korolev
Flesh & Blood - Daniel/Vala beamed off Ori ship as they were about to be killed
Company of Thieves - Daniel/Vala rescue Sam from being killed by Lucian Alliance bad guy by beaming bad guy off ship

And they kind of made fun of the last second rescues/nick of time in "200".

Would the fact that Sam injected herself with the antibiotic thereby killing the symbiote in "NightWalkers" count? It sort of seemed Deus Ex Machina-ish to me.

[Petra]

And I think from a team perspective, I agree with Petra; this is one time when the absence of Daniel is really felt.

I'm not sure if you mean the entire episode or this one little moment I mentioned, so I'd like to clarify that I don't miss Daniel in the *episode*. I think that had he been in it we would have gotten a repeat of J/D focused antagonism and as much as I love The Other Side/Scorched Earth/Red Sky I was ready for a different take on a moral dilemma. I don't see the point of Jack - or anyone else for that matter - informing unknown humans of SG-1's mission objective and I think that part of the scene wasn't needed, especially when it was something totally OOC for anyone except Daniel.

Also, showing how different Jonas' reaction and behaviour was to what Daniel's would have been was a clever way of showing how different the two characters really were.

ETA:

Awesome review of Unnatural Selection Petra. I'm tyring to find something to debate in it but I think I agree with pretty much everything you say and see there,

Hmm, did I manage to "pull Josiane", meaning write a review so awesome that there's nothing more to add?
Just kidding.

but especially the comment about it being the perfect opportunity to explore more about who Jack, Sam, Jonas and Teal'c are. Jonas I can forgive us not knowing much at this point because he's the new guy still (and, sadly, wasn't around long enough to be adequately developed).

See, I can't forgive Jonas because at the time TPTB didnt know he wouldn't stick around for much longer and as a new guy he especially he should have been given more development. And Jack..the less said the better

[hedwig]

Would the fact that Sam injected herself with the antibiotic thereby killing the symbiote in "NightWalkers" count? It sort of seemed Deus Ex Machina-ish to me.

It would probably fit into the "close to last second" category since she wasn't actually in danger of being killed. But it would still be close since she was about to be taken prisoner.

I'm pretty sure there are a few more than the 25 or so "saves" listed, but I'll move on to another category of lists for now.

I'm not sure if you mean the entire episode or this one little moment I mentioned, so I'd like to clarify that I don't miss Daniel in the *episode*. I think that had he been in it we would have gotten a repeat of J/D focused antagonism and as much as I love The Other Side/Scorched Earth/Red Sky I was ready for a different take on a moral dilemma. I don't see the point of Jack - or anyone else for that matter - informing unknown humans of SG-1's mission objective and I think that part of the scene wasn't needed, especially when it was something totally OOC for anyone except Daniel.

Also, showing how different Jonas' reaction and behaviour was to what Daniel's would have been was a clever way of showing how different the two characters really were.

ETA:

Hmm, did I manage to "pull Josiane", meaning write a review so awesome that there's nothing more to add?
Just kidding.



See, I can't forgive Jonas because at the time TPTB didnt know he wouldn't stick around for much longer and as a new guy he especially he should have been given more development. And Jack..the less said the better

And once again, I'm in agreement with you on all points.

[EvenstarSRV]

Great review Petra! US is definitely one of my favorites from S6.

This is my biggest complaint about US. It should have been a 2 parter – or a 3-parter, if we include Prometheus. I can’t believe the writers missed out on such opportunity! First says he and Jack are to visit every place Jack’s ever been and then..nothing happens. We don’t get to see anything. I still remember my profound disappointment the first time I watched US. I’m still disappointed, all those years later. Jack and Jonas desperately needed some background (we don’t even know if they had families FCOL) and who’d have turned down the chance to learn something new about Sam and Teal’c? BW came up with a perfect way to delve into SG-1’s past before the program without any need to change or characterize actors and he did *nothing*. I’m a huge supporter of BW and his writing but this is probably the biggest mistake he’s ever done.

I'm not so sure they could have strung the plot out far enough for US to be a two-parter. And while I would have love to have gotten more about Jack or esp Jonas's past, if they'd attempted to fill the time with mostly just character backstory it would have taken away from the imminent threat of the Replicators and bogged the show down, IMO.

Sam and Teal’c claimed they didn’t remember anything from sharing their minds with the Replicators; Jonas said it was like a nightmare and Jack didn’t say anything. Is it possible that he and Jonas remembered what happened? And if so, why? Could it be because they were both more advanced human beings?

I feel it's more that Sam and Teal'c just didn't want to talk about it, something I think they both share with Jack, only we as the audience got to see what happened to Jack. Sam later shared her mind with Fifth and seemed to remember what happened that time (and did so again later with Replicarter).

IMO it’s a very interesting episode for S/J because it shows a full spectrum of their interactions. We get to see Jack’s blind faith in Sam’ s scientific abilities, several times (e.g during their first talk with Thor or when Jonas tries to convince Jack not to blow up the ship); Sam laughing at his sarcastic remarks; their playful side when they banter about Prometheus vs Enterprise (Jack is so totally whining and Sam’s so trying not to laugh at him ); their military side and innate trust going both ways: Jack trusts Sam when she volunteers to share her mind with Fifth and she trusts him when he orders her to deceive Fifth; their caring side (the moment Jack drops to his knees Sam doesn’t fight the Replicators to save herself but to get to him; after the second time he’s the one she checks up on first; in turn after the first time she’s the first he checks up on too) and finally the conflict between them. They don’t argue, but Sam doesn’t even try to hide that in her opinion they did the wrong thing and he tries to explain his decision even though as a CO there’s no reason for him to do it. Whether one sees it as just friendship or something more, he cares deeply about what she thinks of him.

That last scene always reminds of the the last scene from the Other Side, where Sam is confronted head-on with Jack's almost ruthless practicality and it brings up somewhat conflicted feelings regarding her own actions and feelings. Sam questions whether what they did, use Fifth's humanity against him to stop the Replicators, was the right thing to do. And yet, Sam was entirely complicit in Jack's decision, she set the timer and she lied to Fifth about leaving him behind to ensure the plan succeeded. It feels to me like Jack, a veteran of Black Ops, has reached a certain level of comfort with sometimes employing underhanded tactics to complete the mission, while Sam still struggles with the idea that doing the right thing on one level (stopping the Replicators) may require her to do in wrong thing in another way (lying to Fifth). I think she felt something similar in the Other Side, stopping Alar was the right thing to do, but Jack's way of doing it felt wrong to her.

In case anyone is interested, here is a list of last second/nick of time rescues that I found:

Into the Fire - Jack saves Sam from Hathor and her hand device
Small Victories - Sam/Thor rescue Jack/Teal'c from getting eaten by replicators
D&C - iffy, but included since Sam got Janet to stop Anise from causing injury to Jack
Tangent - Sam/Jacob/Daniel rescue Jack and Teal'c
Fifth Man - Sam/Daniel/Teal'c rescue Jack/Tyler as they are about to be shot by Jaffa
Desperate Measures - Jack rescues Sam
48 Hours - Sam/McKay rescue Teal'c
Death Knell - Jack/Teal'c rescue Sam from super soldier
Descent - the team rescue themselves seconds before the mothership explodes
Prometheus - Jack/Teal'c save Sam from hijackers who are about to shoot her
Homecoming - Jonas saves Daniel from staff blast
Avenger 2.0 - Jack/Teal'c rescue Sam and Felger from Jaffa
Evolution - Jack rescues Daniel / Burke rescues Jack and Daniel
Grace - Sam saves herself and the Prometheus crew
Endgame - Prometheus rescues Sam/Daniel/Teal'c/stargate just before cargo ship jumps into hyperspace
Flesh & Blood - Teal'c rescued from the Lucian Alliance ship by the Odyssey seconds before LA ship goes into hyperspace

I didn't count Teal'c showing up in "Upgrades" since he didn't actually rescue them other than having a zat with him and zatting a couple of the Jaffa on the run back to the gate. I'm pretty sure they'd have made it anyway without that.

There may be others, but those are the obvious ones that spring to mind.

And, btw, excellent review of "Unnatural Selection" by Petra.

Nice list! There's also Oma/the Ancients slowing down the SGC's self-destruct in Threads.

[hedwig]

Great review Petra! US is definitely one of my favorites from S6.



I'm not so sure they could have strung the plot out far enough for US to be a two-parter. And while I would have love to have gotten more about Jack or esp Jonas's past, if they'd attempted to fill the time with mostly just character backstory it would have taken away from the imminent threat of the Replicators and bogged the show down, IMO.



I feel it's more that Sam and Teal'c just didn't want to talk about it, something I think they both share with Jack, only we as the audience got to see what happened to Jack. Sam later shared her mind with Fifth and seemed to remember what happened that time (and did so again later with Replicarter).



That last scene always reminds of the the last scene from the Other Side, where Sam is confronted head-on with Jack's almost ruthless practicality and it brings up somewhat conflicted feelings regarding her own actions and feelings. Sam questions whether what they did, use Fifth's humanity against him to stop the Replicators, was the right thing to do. And yet, Sam was entirely complicit in Jack's decision, she set the timer and she lied to Fifth about leaving him behind to ensure the plan succeeded. It feels to me like Jack, a veteran of Black Ops, has reached a certain level of comfort with sometimes employing underhanded tactics to complete the mission, while Sam still struggles with the idea that doing the right thing on one level (stopping the Replicators) may require her to do in wrong thing in another way (lying to Fifth). I think she felt something similar in the Other Side, stopping Alar was the right thing to do, but Jack's way of doing it felt wrong to her.



Nice list! There's also Oma/the Ancients slowing down the SGC's self-destruct in Threads.

Now that I think of it, there are a couple of other similar situations where it came down to pretty much the last second. Good catch.

[iiradned]

Just got back from a meal out with my family and the couple in next booth were discussing the relationship between Sam and Jack and how the events of last night's episode will affect their future. Naturally my shipper ears perked up at this and I started to eavesdrop

As the conversation went on they started discussing Sam's pregnancy. Preggers, Sam never got preggers on SG-1. And then it was mentioned that the pregnancy was written in because of Poppy's real life pregnancy.

Poppy playing Sam and really preggers, it hit me that they were talking about another Sam and Jack - Samantha Spade and Jack Malone of the FBI Missing Persons Unit from the show Without a Trace portrayed by transplanted Aussies, Poppy Montgomery and Anthony LaPaglia.

It seems that not only do I have shipper lenses in front of my eyes, but I also have shipper sound filters covering my ears.

and soooooo married and hopefully expanding their family

[josiane]

Awesome review, Petra!

I tend to see Unnatural Selection as a mirror reflection of WoO. WoO was a lighthearted comedic episode with a pretty dark, poignant scene at the end while US is a pretty dark, philosophical episode that starts in a light, humorous even, way. Both are team-y, but with distinct focus on Jack. Both even reference Charlie and deal with time machines.

Nice insight - I'd never made that connection before. The connection that always comes to mind here for me is to put US with New Order, which makes them a mirror for Frozen and Abyss - here, Jack orders Sam to do something she is uncomfortable with, and the consequence for her (unbeknownst to him) is that she ends up being taken hostage by Fifth and tortured. I have a whole theory about how throughout the series Sam and Jack's experiences mirror one another a lot like this, which means that by the time they get to the end of season 8 they really understand what the other has been through and it gives them a great emotional/psychological equality.

I don’t usually talk about visuals but in this case I think it’s necessary. I’m impressed by how the tone is set by colours. During the lighthearted part of the episode set on the ship colours, while darkish (it’s a ship after all), are clear and intense. Once on the planet they become dull and darker and darker. But the true masterpiece is presenting Jack’s subconsciousness as a dark, abandoned Gateroom with a surreal blue tinge. I know some fans complained that it was a rip-off of Meridian but I don’ think so. SGC is just as important to Jack as it is to Daniel, maybe even more so. And Daniel’s Gate room wasn’t as dark. Lights were dimmed, but they were there. In Jack’s version there are none. I think it conveys superbly how both men see themselves. Daniel believed his life was a failure but he didn’t doubt that he was a good man. Jack believes that his life has a purpose and he does right things, but that he isn’t a good enough person, as josi said in her awesome review of Abyss. I imagine that his torture at Baal’s hands, the fact that Baal finally broke him, solidified this conviction.

This is a fantastic insight, just

[Zoser]

snipped

Prometheus


.

Admittedly, I'm just not fussed about this one although there are some nice moments, I always thought the follow-up to Sam's expeience with Adrian Conrad and her confronting him would be more meaningful. And I think as a way of getting rid of Conrad and Simmons though who had effectively been the S5 villains, it was a good enough story.

Sam/Jack



I love Jack's anger as he exits the car and immediately starts yelling because I do find it shippy and too over the top for it just to be concern for his team-mates, and Jack has never been upset about hardware.

Conrad has been subsumed by the Goa'uld in him so why would there be this big confrontation between Conrad and Sam. Conrad who wanted Sam's life to help rid him of the Goa'uld is gone. Sam is logical - Conrad has gotten more than his just desserts.
The Goa'uld probably doesn't give a rat's patootie about any of the humans after he has command of the ship, they are only to use to benefit the Goa'uld. He doesn't even care about Conrad when he readily jumps to Simmons to save his own snakey life.

And yes indeed - Angry Jack is smokin' hot!

Just noticed Akamaimom and I share similar thoughts.

[hlndncr]

Sorry for the delay on this review; RL you know.

Banner by Snow White

Summary:
SG1 brings back an ancient device with no discernable purpose from a sandy planet (one of Jack's favorites ) and Jonas starts seeing bugs flying through walls. At first, when no one else sees the creatures, General Hammond determines the team (and especially Jonas) is in need of a rest. So Jack goes fishing and everyone else stays on base and works. Soon people on and off base begin to see the creatures and Jonas is vindicated. It is later discovered that the ability to see these extra-dimensional bugs is passed on by touch. Jack helps with the quarrantine of Colorado Springs while Sam and Jonas try to figure out how to reverse the effects of the device, which they do by moving around the control crystals. Meanwhile, Vernon Sharp, a gas station attendent Jack ran into on his way out of town, has broken quarrantine because he doesn't believe the cover story. Jack, with information the team obtained from Vernon's crazy grandma, tracks him down at a local airport and convinces Vernon to give himself up by telling him a version of the truth.

Favorite Scene:
The fishing invite, of course!

Favorite Line:
Fishing, Carter. I'm going fishing. . . . No, really. I think you should come…fish. Fish some more.

Generally:
This is probably among one of my least favorite Stargate episodes. I just find it boring and uncompelling. If it weren't for the fishing invite, I would be hard pressed to find anything at all worth watching here.

First, we don't really learn anything new about our characters. We know Sam is smart and a good leader who can take charge when Jack is gone. Jonas feels like the "new guy" still trying to earn everyone's trust. Jack likes to fish, and Teal'c doesn't.

Here we are beginning to see shades of season 7, where RDA cut back his time on the show; so Jack goes fishing, gets injured, is in jail (next episode), or has some other important task (like setting up the quarrantine) to do off-base (and off camera) for most of the episode.

Also, once again we have what you could sort of characterize as a Jonas episode that does absolutely nothing to open up or expand upon Jonas' character. He feels like the others don't really trust him or put enough store in his word. But General Hammond did immediately lockdown the base on his say so. While Jack and Sam (nice looks over the briefing table in this scene) did suggest that they thought he was hullucinating; I think they were also trying to demonstrate that it wasn't out of mistrust but based on a true concern for his well-being. He is a little put out that he seems to be the only one who didn't get a fishing invite, but again, we already know his relationship with Jack is cordial but not particularly close. In the end we see that Jonas is a smart, sweet guy who is doing his best to show he belongs and find his place on the team. I'm pretty sure I could have gotten that from the original casting sides.

Next, the guest charaters, Vernon and his grandmother, are supposed to be in there for laughs, I think. But I find them neither funny nor compelling. Vernon is rather bland and his grandmother is just stereotypical old lady crazy. I think the best example of how this all falls flat for me is when Mrs. Sharp agrees to tell Jonas and Sam what she knows (which apparently is nothing) because they look like a "cute couple." I didn't find this funny or even slightly amusing; it was just seemed awkward and out of place.

But my biggest complaint about the episode is the complete lack of danger. The big climax is that Jack must find Vernon before he shakes hands again. The only thing in real peril in this episode was Vernon's sign.

There are a couple of scenes in the briefing room and General Hammond's office where they are trying to create a sense of peril by explaining all the trouble seeing these bugs might cause. But it reminds me of those drug commericals where you have actors trying to make FDA warnings sound like casual conversation among friends: These Ancient research devices are not for everyone. If you start seeing extradimensional bugs, be sure to talk to your doctor. Do not shake hands with SGC personnel if you suspect you are pregnant or may become pregnant with an alien baby.

So what are some good points in this episode?

The fishing invite, which I'll get to.

Sam and Jonas have a nice friendship moment where she apologizes for not believing him that was played very well by AT and CN.

Jack in jeans.

Sam and Jack:
As I've said before, the one thing that saves this episode for me is Jack's fishing invite to Sam. Because it is the last one we see, I think it has some significance for their relationship. The first thing I noticed about this scene is that the subtext of "fishing" is much more front and center. Just the way he says, "I'm going fishing" sounds less than innocent. And his comment about fishing and then fishing more? It seems very suggestive to me.

While the invite may at a glance seem to be offered casually and out of the blue, I see it as actually quite calculated. He's been thinking about it. He wants to ask her. He's ready to go and has her walking with him as he heads for the elevators and out the door. At the last possible second he throws it out there again, escape route ready. She thinks he doesn't mean it. He knows just how much he does.

But the real kicker is the round about way Jack brings up what they've left in the room. It's like he can't help himself. Jack says, "There's always something." His subtle complaint that those barriers are still there between them. But Sam isn't about to take all the blame for that and she pushes back. She essentially tells Jack, "You know the score. You can't complain when we are where we are because of choices we've both made."

After this, Jack doesn't ask Sam again. He knows that unless and until circumstances change, there will be no fishing. He tries to make light of it as the elevator door closes, physically and metephorically cutting off the expression of his true desire to fish with Sam. And I have to wonder if it wasn't Sam who brought up fishing the next time.

[leiasky]

And I have to wonder if it wasn't Sam who brought up fishing the next time.

Snipped only to save space....

Ok, fic writers...post Threads.... who asked who? Ficlet anyone....?


I agree this is one of my least favorite episodes save the fishing invite.

[josiane]

Well done for finding as much as you did in this ep, hlndncr, I agree there's not really that much here. But that was a great analysis of the fishing invitation - it is very calculated and the subtext here is as obvious as it was back in Nemesis/Small Victories, but entirely more angsty. I always think it's interesting that we get this invitation here - it fits with the way that Sam and Jack seem closer and more of a twosome in season 6 than they were in 5, and maybe it's enough that Jack feels he's in a position to at least ask again, even though he clearly doesn't actually expect her to take him up on it.

[Petra]

Great review hlndncr, but boy, do I disagree with you! On almost everything.

I *like* Sight Unseen, you see. It's not one of my favourites, but it's more than "meh" too. It's lighthearted and not meant to take too seriously; just shameless, fluffy, slightly cheesy fun. Plus, I really like those colourful, silly bugs. How often do we see "aliens" in all the colours of rainbow?

First, we don't really learn anything new about our characters. We know Sam is smart and a good leader who can take charge when Jack is gone. Jonas feels like the "new guy" still trying to earn everyone's trust. Jack likes to fish, and Teal'c doesn't.

I agree in part. While we don't learn anything about the characters per se, we do learn a lot about their interpersonal relationships and interactions; and don't they make up a character's development to a large degree?

Here we are beginning to see shades of season 7, where RDA cut back his time on the show;

True. I'd like to add though that season 6 dealt with RDA/Jack's absence very well, unlike season 7. All those reasons why we don't see Jack onscreen are believable and thought through, and as much as I love Jack I can't say I missed him this season. Screentime and development of all members of SG-1 was very even, IMO.

Also, once again we have what you could sort of characterize as a Jonas episode that does absolutely nothing to open up or expand upon Jonas' character.

Well, I don't think it's a Jonas episode. I tend to think of it as a team ep. Anyway, I think we do learn about him. He's eager to leave the base, which apparently he hasn't been able to do often, he spends his free time reading and educating himself in general (so it's not only the Weather Channel and Daniel's notes ). His friendship with Teal'c continue to grow stronger, to the point where T became his confidante and introduced Jonas to kel'noreeming. And I just love Jonas' interaction with Sam. It's so warm and comfortable and teasing; a far cry from their behaviour at the beginning of the season. The scene when Sam apologises to him and then mock-orders him to go back to work and he's right there with her, going along with the joke is one of my favourite teamy scenes of the series. It's reminiscent of S/D interaction in the first 2-3 seasons, except more lighthearted and teasing.

I think they were also trying to demonstrate that it wasn't out of mistrust but based on a true concern for his well-being. He is a little put out that he seems to be the only one who didn't get a fishing invite, but again, we already know his relationship with Jack is cordial but not particularly close. In the end we see that Jonas is a smart, sweet guy who is doing his best to show he belongs and find his place on the team.

I think you are spot on here, and it also demonstrates how much the team gelled. Because they really are concerned about him, and want to believe him. I think this ep proves he already found his place on the team.

As for fishing invite, IMO it's very important to Jack/Jonas relationship. We know that Jack invites only his closest friends: Sam, Daniel, Teal'c, Thor. Even Janet was never invited, so it's hardly surprising that Jonas isn't either. But I believe the scene should be read with its counterpart in Prophecy, where Jack finally does invite Jonas on a little trip, just the two of them. That second scene wouldn't be so important without this one.

I'm pretty sure I could have gotten that from the original casting sides.

Ouch! That's harsh!

Next, the guest charaters, Vernon and his grandmother, are supposed to be in there for laughs, I think. But I find them neither funny nor compelling.

Now see, I do find them funny. Well okay, Vernon is a bit annoying, but even he coaxes a few smiles out of me. And I can never stop grinning throughout the scene with his grandma. It's amusing to watch how Sam and Jonas desperately try to keep a straight face listening to grandma's revelations, how cunning Sam is and how surprised Jonas is seeing her lying through her teeth without any remorse. I think they are both very charming in this scene. Plus, on the shallow note, they both look very good! It's one of Sam's better outfits, me thinks. And Jonas is cute.

But my biggest complaint about the episode is the complete lack of danger. The big climax is that Jack must find Vernon before he shakes hands again. The only thing in real peril in this episode was Vernon's sign.

I agree about the lack of danger, but I think it was done this way on purpose. What's the point of having the characters in real, dramatic peril when the ep isn't supposed to be taken seriously? SU is a filler episode and it works in this regard.

S/J

Just the way he says, "I'm going fishing" sounds less than innocent. And his comment about fishing and then fishing more? It seems very suggestive to me.

I totally didn't notice, and now I wish I'd had, 'cos I like where you are going with this!

While the invite may at a glance seem to be offered casually and out of the blue, I see it as actually quite calculated. He's been thinking about it. He wants to ask her. He's ready to go and has her walking with him as he heads for the elevators and out the door. At the last possible second he throws it out there again, escape route ready. She thinks he doesn't mean it. He knows just how much he does.

I agree with this, for a change.

But the real kicker is the round about way Jack brings up what they've left in the room. It's like he can't help himself. Jack says, "There's always something." His subtle complaint that those barriers are still there between them. But Sam isn't about to take all the blame for that and she pushes back. She essentially tells Jack, "You know the score. You can't complain when we are where we are because of choices we've both made."

I'm not sure what to make of it. I don't quite see what you see, but I'm not sure what I see anyway and I just confused myself too. I think Jack complaints and they are both frustrated a little, but I'm not up to looking for deeper reasons tonight.

I also noticed that when Sam was discussing fishing with Jonas and the reasons why she declined Jack's invitation, she said that she didn't find it "relaxing" and I couldn't help but laugh. Duh, of course that spending downtime alone with the guy you are in love with and have hots for but aren't allowed to touch wouldn't be relaxing. In fact it would be downright frustrating and stressful

[hlndncr]

I also noticed that when Sam was discussing fishing with Jonas and the reasons why she declined Jack's invitation, she said that she didn't find it "relaxing" and I couldn't help but laugh. Duh, of course that spending downtime alone with the guy you are in love with and have hots for but aren't allowed to touch wouldn't be relaxing. In fact it would be downright frustrating and stressful

I noticed that too, and I completely agree with you there. And you know if they were "fishing" she certainly wouldn't be relaxing.

I'm glad you like the ep. (My mom likes it too.) It is interesting to know your reasons. Different things appeal to different people, which is good. No Stargate episode could ever be considered a complete failure, even though we each have or opinions on which ones come close.