Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hedwig]

And then there was Daniel and his friendship? with Reece. Would Thor know about what happened with Reece and her replicator pets? Sorry, that's what they were, weren't they. Memory on that ep is fuzzy.

I'm pretty sure Thor would have been told everything that happened with Reece, including Daniel's "friendship" with her, if it can be called that. We only ever heard that her "body" was given to the Asgard, and nothing much more after that, except where Thor said the Asgard had activated the signal within Reece that called the replicators to "come forth".

[iiradned]

Great job Rachel and hlndncr on the reviews. Since I came late to this part of the discussion, everything I would like to say has already been said.

And like you guys I too am waiting for the S/J payoff.

[UhSir]

Rachel500 and hlndncr, I enjoyed your reviews very much. It looks like I think about the same as everyone else who posted.

Favorite Sam/Jack scene:
In Part 1, the Sam and Teal'c scene that Lucycat mentions. Teal'c is totally channeling Jack and the look Sam gives him seems like she's looking at Jack.
In Part 2, when Sam is found, with Sam smiling at Jack and Jack holding back. Ouch! The angst... it hurts so good.

Re: the guys feelings about the idea that Sam was dead. I agree that they didn't have time to react to it but I do think they did a little. Teal'c was visibly upset when the ship was destroyed. Jack was more revealing about it when he saw the image of Sam trapped in the replicator blocks.

I wonder about the scene with the team discussing Jack being in command of the SGC, with (Daniel) “You can do whatever you want” and (Sam) “Within reason...sir.” My first time watching it had me thinking back to “no consequences” happenings in Window of Opportunity. Did Jack ever tell Sam about the kiss? Sam's embarrassed “...sir.” makes me think he did. I don't think he ever told Daniel or Teal'c though.

I don't think Fifth using Pete in Sam's dreams was a production decision. I think it was partly to further expose Sam's true feelings about her relationship and also to indicate how emotionally immature Fifth was. I can see Sam dreaming about escaping from her hectic life and running away to Montana. It's one of the most remote parts of the country. Advertising and most fiction stories regularly tout the serenity of small town farm life. So I can see Sam halfway, sort of wishing her life could be like that and Fifth misinterpreting those wishes. Factor in that Fifth is more like a computer and Sam is trapped and he wants to make her think she's gotten out of it. So search her brain for “escape” and here's what he found: Pete equals “escape” from her black-widow curse of a life.

[Petra]

Hi guys! I know I was MIA for most of season 7 and I can't promise I'll be here for every episode this season (*collective sigh of relief is heard* ) but RL has calmed down a bit, so I hope I'll be able to participate in most discussions...

First of all, great reviews Rachel and hlndncr! As usual

After consulting his teammates, Jack accepts the promotion and the new position. His first order of business? To promote Sam to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel.

So...I'm back, and I'm back to making unpopular statements

I don't think Sam's promotion was Jack's first order of business. All you guys more familiar with American military feel free to correct me, but I've read some discussions here on GW about that and my impression is that Jack couldn't have promoted Sam because there simply was not enough time for that. Most likely it was General Hammond's order -possibly one of the last - and Jack only did the honours. In fact I'm hoping that was the case, because otherwise there would be a whole new can of worms to deal with in regards to favouritism and damage to Sam's standing after she and Jack officially got together after Threads.

So I'm a firm believer that Jack did not promote Sam. However weird that sounds on a shippy thread.

OK, the Weir stuff back at the SGC isn’t really shippy, but it’s also not a very significant part of the ep IMHO. It does do a nice job of setting up her character as a good leader (all ready to take over the Atlantis expedition)

I just want to say that I love New Order in general and enjoy Weir/Daniel parts very much, but I must say I much prefer Jessica Steen's Weir. TH never quite worked for me. Neither here nor in SGA.

I’m going to skip ahead to the end because Jack’s promotion doesn’t really play a role in the main story; it’s really just tacked on to the end as set up for the rest of the season.

Right, third unpopular opinion. I would have preferred to see Jack's promotion than Sam's.

*ducks and continues to type under rotten fruit bombardment*

Ideally we could see both and I'm very happy we got to see how proud of Sam everybody was (plus it looked shippy, as hlndncr noted), but...we already saw Sam being promoted and how proud her friends were. We know that. If anyone of SG-1 was singled out for a praise or even a simple "good job" it was usually Sam or Daniel.

Otoh we never saw something similar with Jack and given his self-doubts expressed in Zero Hour (can I just say that I can't wait for Josi's review?) I think it would have made a great counterpoint to see his friends being so proud and supportive of him, confident in his abilities when he himself seems unsure of them.

Plus his promotion had a far bigger impact on the season than Sam's.

Having Jack become “the Man” brought back into play some of the leadership and diplomatic skills his character seemed to have lost with Daniel’s return.

I wholeheartedly agree. As you may recall at the beginning of season 7 I was complaining that Daniel's return erased all of season 6 development for Jack's character, so I'm really happy that season 8 saw the return of that character development and shook things up a little.

I freakingly love Jack's promotion to a general and think it was a great - if a bit overdue - move on TPTB's part.

Along with Jack’s promotion came Sam’s, which I didn’t think was as successful because IMO we didn’t get to see Sam as the leader of SG1 nearly enough

Ah, yes. Again, I agree. IMO it would be far more interesting to ditch pretty much all the episodes in the middle (which are all either Earth-based or ship-based) in favour of some off-world action showing off Sam in charge and the guys getting used to it. Alas, it was not to be.

But why would Fifth ignore Sam’s obvious feelings for Jack that he must have seen within her mind? Perhaps because they are chaotic and unresolved? Sam doesn’t even really understand them so Fifth certainly wouldn’t be able to interpret them.

I believe you are spot on right there. I don't think what Sam feels for Jack is simple. There's love and desire and affection, of course, but there's also uncertainty, sense of duty, admiration for his as a man and an officer, amusement, pain, anger at him ending up in a situation which she needs to rescue him from again, perhaps? and etc etc There's no way a machine would be able to sort through all these conflicting emotions and understand them correctly, when Sam herself has this problem.

Also, there is one more moment that can be taken as shippy, although I personally treat it as a plothole. When the guys are down on the planet and come across Replicators' ship, Jack had plenty of time to fire upon it (and stop the season's arch ) with his Ancient weapon. He didn't, and I've seen people on the forum cite this scene as an example of his feelings for Sam clouding his judgement. He could have destroyed Fifth, but he didn't out of fear for Sam's life.

And I have to ask the question: If it had been Jack, would she have been more likely to be taken in by Fifth’s deception? I really don’t think so. As much as she may long for happiness with Jack (and I think it is difficult to deny that at least some part of her still does), I don’t think she really believes it’s possible under any circumstance.

I also don't think she would have bought it, but for slightly different reasons. For all of Jack's talk about fishing and free time he's as much a workaholic as the rest of his team. I just can't imagine him ever being ready to drop everything, severe all his ties with the program and to move to Montana to become a blissfully unaware farmer out of his own free will (it's kinda like what he said in 100 Days to Laira, part of him would never forget and stop being soldier). He would have gone nuts and I think Sam knows that. She wouldn't have bought this scenario with Jack because of its sheer impossibility.

Also, I think Sam looked really good in this ep... not that she doesn't always look good, but she was tanned, her hair was a good cut (imo) and her blue eyes really popped out. Plus she was sporting the super-chick sleeveless tank-top... no more bulky BDU tops for her!

Yep. I agree that Sam/AT looked amazing in season 8.

Having said that, I am definitely NOT a fan of sexing up the show and the cast's clothes.

One other point... why do you think neither, Jack, Daniel or Teal'c seemed that broken up by her supposed death??

I think it was because they were ona mission. I don't remember anyone on SG-1 reacting very emotionally to other member's death on a mission - they usually saved it for until they were safely home.

Seriously, though. I hear you about the ship name, too. Of ANY of them--Sam has done the most for the Asgard, and who gets all the credit? Jack and Daniel. What the heck? When I heard that, I wanted to kick Thor's little gray heinie

Umm..I can't agree with that. Or rather, I agree completely on Daniel - hearing that the Asgard named their ship after him was a huge WTF? moment. It still puzzles me. And yes, Sam would be a much more logical choice. However, I expected O'Neill II. Yes, Sam saved the Asgard in Small Victories, but since then Jack rescued Thor in Revelations/Descent and led the mission to trap Replicators in Unnatural Selection, so he did a lot to deserve it.

Yep. I always thought Sam may have gotten a little secret satisfaction out of blowing up Jack's ship.

Just out of curiosity, why?

[EvenstarSRV]

Lovely review, and I completely agree with your favorite quote and scene. I've always wished we had gotten to see some follow up to Sam and Weir's relationship after that standoff in her office. IIRC those two aren't shown speaking to each other again until Pegasus Project.

Ah, Pete. Well I think the mention of him here is to support the appearance in Part 2 when Fifth uses him in his fantasy world. But to pick up on some recent discussions, given the timing - I can't see that Pete has featured very heavily in Sam's thoughts for the weeks Jack's been missing (she literally is completely focused on Jack); she's taken aback by Teal'c's question and her answer that everything is greta is clearly false enough that Teal'c gives her the eyebrow. I personally think her answer that it's hard to say goodbye to someone you care about (not love) when you know you may never come back, is less about how she feels about Pete and more to do with her choice: she's chosen to risk her life to save one man (the one she knows she loves) and has left the man she is dating back on Earth. I'm sure that is causing all kinds of internal questions and debates that she's suppressing and trying not to think about.

I would agree that Sam hasn't been thinking much about Pete while trying to find a way to save Jack in the weeks since Lost City, but I would guess that she probably saw/talk to him just before leaving to find the Asgard, if only to let him know that she would be out of touch for an extended period of time. So her feelings about him and saying goodbye (potentially forever) was probably what was one of the things currently on her mind on the ship.

Even if Sam didn't really love Pete (and IMHO she did), I still think it must have been a difficult moment for her to deal with the idea that she could very likely die on this mission and Pete would never know what really happened to her. I remember how distraught Sam was at the prospect of having to possibly explain to Mark why Jacob had died in the Devil You Know, and I think Sam was concerned that someone would have to do the same for Pete and she was worried about the pain that would cause someone who cared for her.

One of these days I may learn to be succinct, but apparently today is not that day.

New Order Part 2, continued

Fifth:
I find myself thinking of Fifth as a tragic character; someone I feel sorry for more than anything. Through his own emotional immaturity and infatuation with Sam he is first deceived and trapped in the time dilation field, then tries and fails to get Sam to love him so he lets her go, and after creating a version of Sam that he’s sure will bring him happiness she too deceives him and eventually destroys him. Other than maybe the brief time when he’s torturing Sam in revenge for leaving him (and I must note that AT’s acting was amazing in the scene where she begs him for mercy), he never really had the upper hand. It seems he was destined for rejection and failure. Sam’s responsibility in the tragedy of Fifth I think is best left for the Gemini discussion. I’ll just say that in the end Fifth fell victim to the curse of Sam because, like pretty much all her suitors before him, he made the mistake of trying to drag her into his world and place his emotions and expectations on her.

Nice description of Fifth, I agree is quite a tragic character and his arc is one of my favorites in Stargate.

As far as a character explanation goes, I’m still having trouble coming up with one that is completely satisfying to me. Fifth explains that he created the illusion of her and together on a farm in Montana because he was attempting to give her something she wanted badly enough that it would convince her to stay. But we’ve never seen any indication that Sam is interested in farming (or Montana for that matter); in fact it seems quite opposite from the geeky, tech loving Sam we know. It could say that Sam has thought about being with in a traditional, domestic situation and this is how Fifth chose to interpret those thoughts. But why would Fifth ignore Sam’s obvious feelings for Jack that he must have seen within her mind? Perhaps because they are chaotic and unresolved? Sam doesn’t even really understand them so Fifth certainly wouldn’t be able to interpret them. Sam tells Fifth that human emotions are very overwhelming and I believe she speaks from experience here, having been driven by her emotions for Jack throughout this entire adventure.

My take on Pete's presence in the illusion vs Jack (besides the production issues), is that IMO Fifth was like an adolescent, he did not have that maturity for understanding deeper or more complex emotions. So his readings of Sam's emotions are more likely to be on a relatively superficial level, with Sam's current feelings for Pete more prominent to him than the undercurrent of her more complex emotions for Jack.

And I have to ask the question: If it had been Jack, would she have been more likely to be taken in by Fifth’s deception? I really don’t think so. As much as she may long for happiness with Jack (and I think it is difficult to deny that at least some part of her still does), I don’t think she really believes it’s possible under any circumstance. So maybe that’s why Fifth shied away from that scenario. Because he knew he could not make it believable to her.

I don't think Sam would have believed any scenario Fifth presented, but I'd say she'd be more likely to not believe Fifth's scenario if it'd been Jack simply because last Sam knew he was still frozen. I don't think Fifth has the maturity to understand Sam's emotions regarding Jack, so IMHO they did not influence his choice regarding his illusion.

[hlndncr]

Hi guys! I know I was MIA for most of season 7 and I can't promise I'll be here for every episode this season (*collective sigh of relief is heard* ) but RL has calmed down a bit, so I hope I'll be able to participate in most discussions...

Welcome back to you and your unpopular opinions.

So...I'm back, and I'm back to making unpopular statements

I don't think Sam's promotion was Jack's first order of business. All you guys more familiar with American military feel free to correct me, but I've read some discussions here on GW about that and my impression is that Jack couldn't have promoted Sam because there simply was not enough time for that. Most likely it was General Hammond's order -possibly one of the last - and Jack only did the honours. In fact I'm hoping that was the case, because otherwise there would be a whole new can of worms to deal with in regards to favouritism and damage to Sam's standing after she and Jack officially got together after Threads.

So I'm a firm believer that Jack did not promote Sam. However weird that sounds on a shippy thread.

I concur that Hammond would have been involved in her promotion and it would have been a long process. But I'm also certain that Jack would have had something to do with it to; he was her CO and immediate supervisor for 7 years. I also believe that at the very least, Jack would have been able to exert some influence over the time so that he could make presenting her with the promotion his first order of business. (And personally I see nothing wrong with that in terms of Sam's standing or career in the future for many reasons I'm sure I'll mention somewhere along the way.)

I just want to say that I love New Order in general and enjoy Weir/Daniel parts very much, but I must say I much prefer Jessica Steen's Weir. TH never quite worked for me. Neither here nor in SGA.

Can't agree with you here. I much prefer TH to JS. I think TH brought a lot more gravitas to the role for me.

Right, third unpopular opinion. I would have preferred to see Jack's promotion than Sam's.

*ducks and continues to type under rotten fruit bombardment*

Ideally we could see both and I'm very happy we got to see how proud of Sam everybody was (plus it looked shippy, as hlndncr noted), but...we already saw Sam being promoted and how proud her friends were. We know that. If anyone of SG-1 was singled out for a praise or even a simple "good job" it was usually Sam or Daniel.

Otoh we never saw something similar with Jack and given his self-doubts expressed in Zero Hour (can I just say that I can't wait for Josi's review?) I think it would have made a great counterpoint to see his friends being so proud and supportive of him, confident in his abilities when he himself seems unsure of them.

Plus his promotion had a far bigger impact on the season than Sam's.

From a production stand point I don't think they could have shown Jack's promotion in a believable way without Hammond and/or the President and those actors just weren't available. And Jack did give an acceptance speech, which I think was their cheat for his promotion ceremony.

I think we did see some of what you are talking about regard Jack's uncertainties and the support of his friends in the scene in Daniel's office when they're discussing his promotion. Frankly, it's not the promotion scene, but the before and after that would have been more interesting (and a realm better suited to fanfic) IMHO.

And what I like about seeing Sam promoted is the parallel with the previous promotion. It hearkens back to the first time, but doesn't feel the same. We get to see the growth in the characters and their relationships from the one to the other.

Overall, what they did worked for me for both Sam and Jack.

Ah, yes. Again, I agree. IMO it would be far more interesting to ditch pretty much all the episodes in the middle (which are all either Earth-based or ship-based) in favour of some off-world action showing off Sam in charge and the guys getting used to it. Alas, it was not to be.

Well I didn't think it was all that bad. Because Jack was now in charge they did have to do a few more earth/SGC based episodes out of necessity. And we got to see it from another perspective, of which Zero Hour is an excellent example that I too am looking forward to discussing.

But I will grant you that as the ships became more prevelant, we saw the steady demise of Stargate missions. I wish they would have given us a couple of the classic style SG1 adventures so to speak (team goes through the gate, gets into trouble, gets out of trouble, and goes home).

Also, there is one more moment that can be taken as shippy, although I personally treat it as a plothole. When the guys are down on the planet and come across Replicators' ship, Jack had plenty of time to fire upon it (and stop the season's arch ) with his Ancient weapon. He didn't, and I've seen people on the forum cite this scene as an example of his feelings for Sam clouding his judgement. He could have destroyed Fifth, but he didn't out of fear for Sam's life.

I don't see this as shippy, clouded judgment, or a plot hole. I don't think the hand-held weapon Jack created had the power or range to take out the ship. They were waiting for Thor to use the larger modified weapon and were on the planet trying to save Sam and also buy Thor time. The fact that Jack fired on the retreating bugs after Fifth warned him Sam would be killed says to me that he realized there was no choice and he was doing what had to be done.

I also don't think she would have bought it, but for slightly different reasons. For all of Jack's talk about fishing and free time he's as much a workaholic as the rest of his team. I just can't imagine him ever being ready to drop everything, severe all his ties with the program and to move to Montana to become a blissfully unaware farmer out of his own free will (it's kinda like what he said in 100 Days to Laira, part of him would never forget and stop being soldier). He would have gone nuts and I think Sam knows that. She wouldn't have bought this scenario with Jack because of its sheer impossibility.

If Fifth had latched onto the idea of Jack I don't think they would have been on a farm in Montana. I think Sam would have seen some version of a cabin in Minnesota. I still don't think that would have fooled her, but I think it may have tempted her, fleetingly.

Umm..I can't agree with that. Or rather, I agree completely on Daniel - hearing that the Asgard named their ship after him was a huge WTF? moment. It still puzzles me. And yes, Sam would be a much more logical choice. However, I expected O'Neill II. Yes, Sam saved the Asgard in Small Victories, but since then Jack rescued Thor in Revelations/Descent and led the mission to trap Replicators in Unnatural Selection, so he did a lot to deserve it.

Sounds like a ship named after Sam to me.

I think they like Jack and recognize him as the leader, but I still think Sam's the one mostly behind saving their skinny grey butts.

[hedwig]

But I will grant you that as the ships became more prevelant, we saw the steady demise of Stargate missions. I wish they would have given us a couple of the classic style SG1 adventures so to speak (team goes through the gate, gets into trouble, gets out of trouble, and goes home).

About the closest they came to this is "It's Good to Be King" where Sam, Daniel and Teal'c went through the gate to warn Maybourne, and then Jack came along later (through the gate) and the team was more or less back together.

I think they like Jack and recognize him as the leader, but I still think Sam's the one mostly behind saving their skinny grey butts.

When there was saving to be done of the Asgard, it was always Sam, or Sam/team that saved the Asgard, and always because of Sam's ideas. I don't recall any saves that were made by Jack, other than creating the weapon (from the ancient knowledge in his brain) in New Order, p.2. Were there any? Sam is also the one who realized that downloading Thor's brain from Anubis' ship (in "Descent") and giving it to the Asgard would likely save Thor (and it did).

Other than having the ancient gene, I don't know why it was Jack that Thor snatched from the SGC in "Nemesis". I'm not sure what he thought the ancient gene could to do defeat the replicators on his ship; and then it was Sam and Teal'c beaming up with an "idea" that did the actual saving.

[Akamaimom]

About the closest they came to this is "It's Good to Be King" where Sam, Daniel and Teal'c went through the gate to warn Maybourne, and then Jack came along later (through the gate) and the team was more or less back together.



When there was saving to be done of the Asgard, it was always Sam, or Sam/team that saved the Asgard, and always because of Sam's ideas. I don't recall any saves that were made by Jack, other than creating the weapon (from the ancient knowledge in his brain) in New Order, p.2. Were there any? Sam is also the one who realized that downloading Thor's brain from Anubis' ship (in "Descent") and giving it to the Asgard would likely save Thor (and it did).

Other than having the ancient gene, I don't know why it was Jack that Thor snatched from the SGC in "Nemesis". I'm not sure what he thought the ancient gene could to do defeat the replicators on his ship; and then it was Sam and Teal'c beaming up with an "idea" that did the actual saving.

I personally believe that it was because Jack was (is--you know what I mean) a man. Did we ever meet any female Asgard? Nope. As far as I could tell, they were all guys. Now, I know--they don't have organs--but Thor and Loki and the rest seemed to identify themselves as male. I think it was more guy to guy than anything else.

[Lucycat]

Write it in legalese. Then it would be TOTALLY clear. Ha ha ha ha ha.

Seriously, though. I hear you about the ship name, too. Of ANY of them--Sam has done the most for the Asgard, and who gets all the credit? Jack and Daniel. What the heck? When I heard that, I wanted to kick Thor's little gray heinie.

I concur! And imagine how the scene would have went if the ship was called Samantha Carter...

: Hey guys.... what's going on?

:Your mind has been interfaced with the Samantha Carter

**LONG PAUSE**

: Sweeeet!!!

: The name of Thor's ship is the Samantha Carter.

: D'oh!

Also, didn't it seem as if Daniel was totally confounded by the whole idea too? It was like he was thinking ... Why was the ship named for me?

[Lucycat]

I personally believe that it was because Jack was (is--you know what I mean) a man. Did we ever meet any female Asgard? Nope. As far as I could tell, they were all guys. Now, I know--they don't have organs--but Thor and Loki and the rest seemed to identify themselves as male. I think it was more guy to guy than anything else.

I suppose that could be true... but I also think Thor has a special fondness for him, since he was the first Earthling he's met!

As for a female Asgard, I think Hemidal was given female characteristics... and I think O'neill asked if she was a female... or was that in a fanfic? Geez, sometimes I confuse the two

[Akamaimom]

I suppose that could be true... but I also think Thor has a special fondness for him, since he was the first Earthling he's met!

As for a female Asgard, I think Hemidal was given female characteristics... and I think O'neill asked if she was a female... or was that in a fanfic? Geez, sometimes I confuse the two

I think that Heimdal was male, although Janet (Teryl Rothery) provided both the voice and the body for the digitized version. I don't think that any of them have ever stated explicitly what gender they are. Like I said, "Who knows?"

And I don't think that anyone ever asked. Hedwig would know--she knows everything! But if I had to guess, I'd guess that was a fic.

[Lucycat]

I don't see this as shippy, clouded judgment, or a plot hole. I don't think the hand-held weapon Jack created had the power or range to take out the ship. They were waiting for Thor to use the larger modified weapon and were on the planet trying to save Sam and also buy Thor time. The fact that Jack fired on the retreating bugs after Fifth warned him Sam would be killed says to me that he realized there was no choice and he was doing what had to be done.

I, too, wondered why Jack didn't shoot Fifth with the weapon when he was standing before him. If he zapped Fifth, then the other Replicators probably would not have know what to do, with their master gone. Giving Thor the time to zap the ship and save Sam. If Sam was still on the ship when it was zapped, wouldn't she just be left in a big pile of Replicator blocks? Or would the weight of the blocks come down on her with enough force to crushed her?

Okay... too much speculation! They couldn't kill Fifth here because they needed him to create Repli-Carter!

[hedwig]

I suppose that could be true... but I also think Thor has a special fondness for him, since he was the first Earthling he's met!

As for a female Asgard, I think Hemidal was given female characteristics... and I think O'neill asked if she was a female... or was that in a fanfic? Geez, sometimes I confuse the two

Actually, Sam and Daniel were the first earthlings that Thor met (at least as far as the series is concerned) - in "Thor's Chariot" at the Hall of Wisdom (or whatever) on Cimmeria, with Gairwyn. Jack didn't meet any of the Asgard until "The Fifth Race".

And I could have sworn there was a female Asgard in one of the episodes. But it was probably in a fanfic, and I'm confusing them. I know there have been female Asgard in fanfiction stories. In fact, in one fanfic, Thor makes a comment about his wife, and everyone pretty much goes "What?????"

[hlndncr]

I, too, wondered why Jack didn't shoot Fifth with the weapon when he was standing before him. If he zapped Fifth, then the other Replicators probably would not have know what to do, with their master gone. Giving Thor the time to zap the ship and save Sam. If Sam was still on the ship when it was zapped, wouldn't she just be left in a big pile of Replicator blocks? Or would the weight of the blocks come down on her with enough force to crushed her?

Okay... too much speculation! They couldn't kill Fifth here because they needed him to create Repli-Carter!

Oh you're talking about when Fifth first tells them to stop, not just when they come to the ship. I totally missed that! *headdesk*

I always thought that was a hologram. I don't know why. I guess because that makes it plausible that Jack couldn't just shoot him.

[Akamaimom]

I, too, wondered why Jack didn't shoot Fifth with the weapon when he was standing before him. If he zapped Fifth, then the other Replicators probably would not have know what to do, with their master gone. Giving Thor the time to zap the ship and save Sam. If Sam was still on the ship when it was zapped, wouldn't she just be left in a big pile of Replicator blocks? Or would the weight of the blocks come down on her with enough force to crushed her?

Okay... too much speculation! They couldn't kill Fifth here because they needed him to create Repli-Carter!

Weren't they concerned that the replicators could make themselves invulnerable to the device? I thought that's why they decided that they needed to do all of them at once before they could update and be resistant to the weapon. That's what I thought, at least.

And going back up to the Jessica Stein thing--I liked her MUCH more than TH as Weir. I didn't like TH--she's the main reason I never got into SGA. Her reading of the line "You're our prisoners. Take them away." (In the gateroom, about Camulus and that Japanese Sun goddess Goa'uld) makes my skin crawl. Literally. Crawl. I thought that JS was a better actress.