Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[VSS]

The Tok’ra Part 1

Favorite scene: When Sam and Martouf are out walking on the dunes talking about Jolinar.
Favorite Quote:
Jacob: Tell me what my little girl is doing.
Hammond: That’s classified.
Jacob: …Who am I going to tell? God?

Thanks, Jasminago!

Quite a bit happens in this episode, but it seems like most of it is just a set-up for the next episode. I still found a couple of little interesting tidbits, though.

In the opening scene, Sam seems to be awakening from some kind of hypnosis. In her dream, she’s seeing through the eyes of Jolinar/Rosha as the To’kra are escaping. Apparently she’s able to recall the address that she dials in her dream, much like Ferretti did in CotG. (I’ve always found it remarkable in both cases. I don’t think I could remember a six-symbol address unless I had time to memorize it). In any case, SG-1 and Hammond discuss the possibility of going there, and the decision is left up to Jack who doesn’t really want to go, but relents because it’s basically Sam’s idea. Isn’t this a little different from most of the other times he goes with her plan, though? This is all based on a dream, not data. And the briefing room scene is pretty interesting. He’s clearly supposed to be sitting next to her, but he never even pulled out the chair. Is it because of the psychiatric mumbo-jumbo she’s talking about, the fact that she was once host to a goa’uld or something else? Isn’t he supposed to sit down if Hammond is? Well, it’s an odd scene and Jack clearly isn’t comfortable with any of what’s going on.

Right before they depart, Sam calls her father and then has the talk with Hammond, and I loved Hammond in this scene. I was very surprised that Jacob had an apartment in Colorado Springs, but didn’t tell her. Why not? To be honest, that seems to be a Jack-like thing to do. Does he remind her of her Dad? He certainly seems Dad-like with that comment to Martouf about having her back by 11, and I wonder if that’s his way of stepping in for Jacob, as if he knows that Jacob is dying. Just so Sam will know she can count on him, like she might have depended on her dad. Even if Sam never told him, would Hammond? I don’t think it means she has some kind of Electra complex but they say women fall for men like their fathers. And then Hammond says she’s more like her Dad than she’d like to admit. I think he’s referring to her “tough soldier” attitude, any other thoughts on that?

So off they go and run into the To’kra, with Jack getting more unhappy by the minute as first their guns are taken away and then by the end of the episode they’re held against their will, which is a complete over-reaction on the part of the Tok’ra, but they’re in panic mode and don’t want to consider the possible explanations, I guess.

Although I like the scene with Martouf and Sam out on the dunes, it was an extremely manipulative thing for him to do, and in a lot of ways he reminds me of Pete- overwhelming her with these romantic overtures when she’s feeling vulnerable, just to get what he wants without taking into account how she feels about things. It might not be intentional, but it happens nonetheless, and it seems self-centered to me. Also, I wonder if this interrupted scene has some kind of parallel or resolution in the scene from the Ripple Effect. Isn’t that what JM indicated that particular near-kiss was all about? Something concerning unresolved issues? Sorry, I don’t see it. It seems to me that by the time of D & C the issues are pretty much resolved. i do remember she talked about it with Narim, so it's not as if it was an easy issue to work through, but I believe she did. Even here Sam knows the feelings aren’t hers. I would think they’d get easier to recognize as time goes by, not harder. Unless she was developing feelings on her own, but I never saw that, either.

Implications for Sam and Jack: Martouf clearly has misplaced feelings for Sam, and Jolinar’s feelings for Martouf seem to linger a lot longer than anyone realizes, including the audience, I guess. What Sam feels about this isn’t all that clear, but I don’t ever recall her looking at Martouf as more than a friend. In fact, this moment here is about as romantic as it gets for those two because Sam does realize the feelings aren't hers.

Also, Jack is pretty taken aback by the whole Tok'ra/goauld thing. Interestingly, he doesn't hold any of this against Sam for the most part. I think he thinks she's a victim. But the briefing toom scene shows how uncomfortable he is with the entire issue- he almost seems uncomfortable with Sam because of it. I don't really think that happens again, though.

[Kel]

As I know Jack couldn't be in Vietnam, because in 1969 he said he was very young

[Nynaeve506]

As I know Jack couldn't be in Vietnam, because in 1969 he said he was very young

Based on his birth year of 1952, he would have been 17 - one year shy of graduation and then he could have been drafted. He has the ribbons for Vietnam - so I think he went

Here's a question I've been wondering about -

doctor-patient confidentiality

I know that the doctor/psychiatrist would be required to report anything medically/mentally problematic that could hinder travel. For example, if Sam were pregnant, Hammond and her commanding officer would both have to be notified because it would/could effect her job duties (off-world travel, handling of certain potentially dangerous technology), but if for instance the father of said child was, oh, I don't know, said commanding officer, would the doc, if having that knowledge, have to tell Hammond?

I'm saying no because it's not medically relevant and the patient has some privacy. Thoughts?

[gater62]

Based on his birth year of 1952, he would have been 17 - one year shy of graduation and then he could have been drafted. He has the ribbons for Vietnam - so I think he went

Here's a question I've been wondering about -

doctor-patient confidentiality

I know that the doctor/psychiatrist would be required to report anything medically/mentally problematic that could hinder travel. For example, if Sam were pregnant, Hammond and her commanding officer would both have to be notified because it would/could effect her job duties (off-world travel, handling of certain potentially dangerous technology), but if for instance the father of said child was, oh, I don't know, said commanding officer, would the doc, if having that knowledge, have to tell Hammond?

I'm saying no because it's not medically relevant and the patient has some privacy. Thoughts?

If it pertains to breaking regulations, then I would think the doctor would have to inform the commanding officer, but I'm not really sure on that.

[Nynaeve506]

If it pertains to breaking regulations, then I would think the doctor would have to inform the commanding officer, but I'm not really sure on that.

My reason for arguing that the doctor wouldn't would be because say Sam had had an affair with a married man - the doc wouldn't go up to Hammond and say "Major Carter is pregnant and she's in a relationship with a married man." - adultery is against the code of conduct for the military as well.

Also, if that was the case it would hinder people from opening up to their doctors. I'm thinking of an episode of JAG where they were arguing a court case where according to post medical check ups there was alcohol in the blood, BUT due to the confidential nature of the file, it was non-admissible in court (and if I recall, no one, not even the commanding officers were allowed to view it) - and the doctor argued that this was the most sacred relationship because they needed to be able to be trusted by those they were caring for.

Make sense?

I was just wondering if maybe any nearby military personnel could weigh in on it, tell me if I'm reasoning this out correctly.

[Kel]

Hmm, I think it depends on only a friendship if you understand me For example, Janet wouldn't tell I suppose because she is Sams best friend. It's my guess

[Aveo_amacus]

Thanks KatG! I have absolutely no time to do any poking around (right now I am sitting outside the library of a one-horse town in the mountains around Lake Tahoe poaching their wifi) so these bits of news are very welcome. And that's a very interesting bit of news, indeed.

Spoiler:

Looks like they're pulling out all the stops to get viewers to watch SGU. But honestly, I'm kind of apprehensive. I don't know why. I like the source, though! Much less likely than other sources to be yanking our chains, IYKWIM.

Spoiler:

Of course, the source of the source could definitely be yanking our chains. So, taken with a giant grain of salt. Like the entire Salt Flats. A nice J/S moment could be anything. But, at least they have a scene together.

Spoiler:

I agree, an S/J moment could be a la the Shroud or 200, all it says to me is that if the source is right they may appear in the same episode. Like you VSS I'm not taking anything as written til I've seen it!

The Tok'ra
I agree with you VSS, I thought that Hammond meant Sam acts like a tough soldier and doesn't want anyone to see her weaknesses which is something she shares with Jacob.
On Jack, as you say, he's clearly uncomfortable with the whole situation, although he hasn't transferred this onto Sam, but he is very protective of her here, both in the briefing and on the planet. I think part of his reservations for them going is about how Sam will cope. Once they're on the planet he tries to keep an eye on her as much as possible, he's really not keen when she goes off with Martouf, and he tries to make sure she's ok most of the rest of the time.

Hmm, I think it depends on only a friendship if you understand me For example, Janet wouldn't tell I suppose because she is Sams best friend. It's my guess

I *really* doubt that! Janet might feel bad about it but she could be fired/court marshalled for covering it up.

[Rachel500]

On the discussion of regs/medical privacy, from everything I've read, I think there is less privacy in a military environment than in a normal environment.

If Sam became pregnant, I believe her doctors would be obliged to inform her chain of command given the health and safety connotations but may give her the option of informing them herself first (with possibly a time limit agreed). Same even if the Daddy is in the CoC - although if the doctor was aware of that fact and knows the fraternisation regs were broken they have an additional obligation to report it to someone more senior in the CoC. Again, they may give Sam time to report it herself (ie allowing her to give herself up rather than be turned in).

I always put the fact that Keller kept Teyla's pregnancy confidential as a sign of her being primarily a civilian doctor - and that she should have come forward given Teyla was being sent into frontline situations. Even in my work environment, I know under the H&S if I were to become pregnant they request you inform HR as soon as you know so they can ensure the workplace is safe for you (although informing your own manager and your colleagues is left to your own discretion).

[Kel]

If what I'm going to say will calm you.. I read about the similar situations in many fics

[Nynaeve506]

I completely agree that say for example Janet would have to disclose Sam's pregnancy. It's a medical condition that really (in my opinion) has no place in a combat situation.

However, whether or not she would have disclose the father's identity regardless of the situation, is what I'm shaky on. I don't think she would be in a court-martial position (although for the record, you don't really get court-martialed for breaking frat regs, a letter of reprimand and reassignment is probably the worst that would happen. It's when there's claims of favoritism from other officers, especially say if Sam got an assignment that had been competitive, that might lead to more serious action).

You do have less privacy in the military (I'm a child of the military, my father is a retired AF officer and if I could figure out how to ask him this without sounding very weird, I would LOL). However, there is still some level of privacy because they still want their people to be safe. The lives of military personnel can be quite sordid (I have a best friend who's enlisted AF, and the stories she has told me about some of her friends is something out of a soap opera sometimes)...

Breaking frat regs isn't medically dangerous. It's not recommended and it's a career killer, but not dangerous. However, say for instance Sam had an infection and Janet needed to know who she could have gotten it from or given it to, and say there was Jack... Janet would need to have the ability to get that information without having to compromise her patient. If she has to disclose it, then she risks her patients hiding information from her which then creates an environment of mistrust and the potential for more problems.

On the other hand, if Sam were talking about setting the self-destruct and killing everyone on base, then that's a direct danger and Janet would need to tell someone so they could get her some proper counseling.

See my reasoning?

[Rachel500]

I completely agree that say for example Janet would have to disclose Sam's pregnancy. It's a medical condition that really (in my opinion) has no place in a combat situation.

However, whether or not she would have disclose the father's identity regardless of the situation, is what I'm shaky on. I don't think she would be in a court-martial position (although for the record, you don't really get court-martialed for breaking frat regs, a letter of reprimand and reassignment is probably the worst that would happen. It's when there's claims of favoritism from other officers, especially say if Sam got an assignment that had been competitive, that might lead to more serious action).

You do have less privacy in the military (I'm a child of the military, my father is a retired AF officer and if I could figure out how to ask him this without sounding very weird, I would LOL). However, there is still some level of privacy because they still want their people to be safe. The lives of military personnel can be quite sordid (I have a best friend who's enlisted AF, and the stories she has told me about some of her friends is something out of a soap opera sometimes)...

Breaking frat regs isn't medically dangerous. It's not recommended and it's a career killer, but not dangerous. However, say for instance Sam had an infection and Janet needed to know who she could have gotten it from or given it to, and say there was Jack... Janet would need to have the ability to get that information without having to compromise her patient. If she has to disclose it, then she risks her patients hiding information from her which then creates an environment of mistrust and the potential for more problems.

On the other hand, if Sam were talking about setting the self-destruct and killing everyone on base, then that's a direct danger and Janet would need to tell someone so they could get her some proper counseling.

See my reasoning?

I see. However, I still tend to think that Janet would have to have a very good reason for keeping knowledge of fraternisation or any regulations breaking confidential despite the medical confidence issue - maybe she could argue she feared for Sam's or Jack's emotional health or the viability of the pregnancy was at risk.

Say, Sam did have an alien STD and Jack was her sexual partner in defiance of the regs. Sam may be embarrassed but she has no option to tell Janet as the regular check-ups would reveal it anyway, and given its alien only the SGC would be able to treat it in secrecy. In this scenario, ultimately the truth would be fairly self-evident to every body regardless of whether Sam was comfortable telling Janet or not.

In any other situation (even a normal STD), Sam probably has the right to remain silent and would take it - not just to protect herself or Jack but also to protect Janet from being placed in an awkward position. Janet - or any other doctor, may suspect who the father is, or who the sexual partner may be (especially if they have the same STD) but without formal proof, there would be no evidence to report a fraternisation.

[Kel]

In short, this question has many answers so... I agree Sam wouldn't have told Janet anything if it had put Janet in an awkward position but...if general Hammond would have asked Janet about something she had had to told him everything (difficult to say, you see) My english not very well, sorry

[Nynaeve506]

Actually, there is a right answer and it isn't mine!! LOL.

I decided to ask my dad (he's a retired Lt. Colonel and was 2IC of a squadron, so he's had to deal with command issues)...

And Janet would have been required by protocol to tell Hammond.

In fact, my father states that if another officer is aware of family problems or any issues they are supposed to report them. In fact, the whole issue of honesty with the doctors is an issue in the military. My dad says that there a lot of officers that will just suffer through medical conditions so that their commanding officers don't find out and end their career. Apparently even military therapists are required to report things to the COs. So yes, Rachel, you're right, there is very little privacy in the military (apparently even the COs can outright ask the therapist questions if they want to).

So if Janet withheld the information, she could be subject to disciplinary action.

I concede and stand corrected. My apologies

[Coela Bellatore]

And Janet would have been required by protocol to tell Hammond.

In fact, my father states that if another officer is aware of family problems or any issues they are supposed to report them. In fact, the whole issue of honesty with the doctors is an issue in the military. My dad says that there a lot of officers that will just suffer through medical conditions so that their commanding officers don't find out and end their career. Apparently even military therapists are required to report things to the COs. So yes, Rachel, you're right, there is very little privacy in the military (apparently even the COs can outright ask the therapist questions if they want to).

Yay, military shenanigans. Again this is fun pilot stuff, I pretty much don't know any of these sorts of things for the airforce. I know the Army's regs but those are different. I'll probably get a PTSD therapist when I get back, they're all the rage now. The Medical XO at the base I was on is a nice hot brunette so I my NCO's and I have decided we will tell the therapist that all are problems come from workplace frustrations. We figure if the XO wants to see what our sessions are about then she will take one look and won't open the files again.

[VSS]

Quick flyby post-

Actually, there is a right answer and it isn't mine!! LOL.

I decided to ask my dad (he's a retired Lt. Colonel and was 2IC of a squadron, so he's had to deal with command issues)...

And Janet would have been required by protocol to tell Hammond.

In fact, my father states that if another officer is aware of family problems or any issues they are supposed to report them. In fact, the whole issue of honesty with the doctors is an issue in the military. My dad says that there a lot of officers that will just suffer through medical conditions so that their commanding officers don't find out and end their career. Apparently even military therapists are required to report things to the COs. So yes, Rachel, you're right, there is very little privacy in the military (apparently even the COs can outright ask the therapist questions if they want to).

So if Janet withheld the information, she could be subject to disciplinary action.

I concede and stand corrected. My apologies

Yeah, I worked in a military hospital for three months and I definitely got the feeling medical confidentiality almost didn't exist, in terms of one's superior officers, anyway. Almost anything could be relevant regarding fitness to serve, and they were entitled to know.

[QUOTE=Aveo_amacus;10284444]

Spoiler:

I agree, an S/J moment could be a la the Shroud or 200, all it says to me is that if the source is right they may appear in the same episode. Like you VSS I'm not taking anything as written til I've seen it!

Spoiler:

I do have a little bit of a bad feeling about this only insofar as I've always thought there'd never be anything close to confirmation of their relationship in SGA or SGU unless there wasn't another movie. So, if this is a significant S/J moment, it may mean the movie isn't going to happen.