Isn't the Trust right? Endgame total spoilers

[TheHomegaMan]

I'll play Devil's Advocate here. I think it was an excellent plan in theory, just with a minor thing that should have been added. They should have let the Tok'ra know and spread the word among a few Jaffa sympathetic to the rebel cause. Then, and only then, should the attack have been launched.

I mean, how many of you would be complaining if the Asgard, for example, went from world to world using Jack's weapon to wipe out every replicator in sight, even Human-Form Reps? Yeah, that's what I thought....

[Racer1441]

Is the Jaffa, good or bad, issue very much like the matrix movies?

Remember the scene where they explain that most people are alright, they just arn't free from the matrix, but until they are, they can be used to destroy you so they are the enemy.

I'm some what torn on what i believe should be done.

[Mr Prophet]

The trust were murdering jaffa solely based on the fact that they were jaffa.

True; I just feel the need to protect my corner from friends who make sweeping generalisations and leap for compare the opposing view to the Nazis.

The episode on listen again may have switched by now, but there was a solid argument against doing either on last week's Jeremy Hardy Speaks to the Nation.

Warning the Tok'ra and Jaffa wouldn't have worked. Let's say you tell your fifth columnist that you're going to nuke his hometown in two days. Do you think he'll leave without warning anyone? Or will he call his brother, tell the girl at the office he quite fancies and at least tip the nod to a couple of good mates. To the Jaffa, the enemy aren't faceless; they're family. Misguided family who'd shoot you on sight, but family nonetheless.

And the Replicators are a different case. The bugs are merely interplanetary locusts with a savant flare for technology and the humanoid Reps - while undeniably sophonts - have demonstrably embraced evil and set themselves against the world - they have made an informed and reasoned decision to walk away from compassion and adopt a creed of overthrowing all other life. Moreover, there are no Replicator civilians, no Replicator children - although I guess Jaffa children would be okay until the starvation and rotting corpse related diseases set in - and since Fifth's return to the fold, no Replicator dissenters.

Despite which, I still wouldn't be entirely happy with it. Dramatically at least, I'd expect the Asgard - 'friends to all, except for the Goa'uld' - to extend an olive branch, albeit very cautiously and at gun's length. Likewise, while I would expect Jack to be all for wiping out the last of them, I'd be disappointed if Daniel were willing to just gloop an unknown group of Replicators, or even if Sam were utterly sanguine with it once she'd worked through her inner pain.

I mean, the Jaffa who still serve are enemies who have to be killed if faced in battle, but there's a big difference between killing a soldier in battle and nerve gassing his home town.

[Sarcazmo The Clown]

Well, Mr. Prophet... I'm one of those people who doesn't agree with euthenasia, but that's opening a whole 'nother can o' worms... not worth the fight and its not the point of this thread...
And I stand by my generalization... killing innocent people is wrong, I don't care WHY you do it

[Ancient 1]

When the snake dies doesn't it create some toxin that kills the host? That would be the reason for the hosts dying so quickly.

[Major Fischer]

When the snake dies doesn't it create some toxin that kills the host? That would be the reason for the hosts dying so quickly.

That would contradict Sam's survival when Jolinar died. Or when Kendra's goa'uld died. I don't think a dying being can prevent it's body from releasing a toxin as it died.

[TheHomegaMan]

Jolinar chose to die to preserve Sam's life. Perhaps the release of toxin is a defense mechanism to prevent an unwanted removal or in the face of imminent death. And we still don't know how Thor's Hammer worked, so it could just as easily be that Kendra's symbiote was outright destroyed or beamed out or who knows what.

[Chevron_nine]

I don't think the Trust plan was a good one at all. Once the System lords become aware of what we're capable of they would probably unite and send an all-out attack on earth using their combined forces.

As for the dying Jaffa, if Teal'c told them to take out their symbiote's once they started feeling funny they probably could have lived long enough to get some tretonin. I'm guessing it was probably the goa'uld blood toxin that killed them.

[Major Tyler]

When the snake dies doesn't it create some toxin that kills the host? That would be the reason for the hosts dying so quickly.

That would contradict Sam's survival when Jolinar died. Or when Kendra's goa'uld died. I don't think a dying being can prevent it's body from releasing a toxin as it died.

Major Fischer is right, but that could be the reason why the Jaffa died so quickly. Perhaps the infant Goa'uld released a toxin into the Jaffa.

Edit: Chevron_nine must have posted the same time I did. Great minds...

[Uncle Dick]

1) That is condeming an entire race (jaffa) for being enslaved against their will.

I think the very fact that there are rebel Jaffa discounts the idea that they are trapped against their will in the service of the Gou'ald. They do have a choice, it's just not a very pretty one.

As we've seen in other episodes, such as Bloodlines (where Daniel guns down a tank full of presumably sentient baby Gou'alds), There But For… (where alt. O'Neill nukes Chulak) and Last Stand (where the symbiote poison is first used), SG-1 is not above using morally questionable tactics to obtain their ends. There will obviously be consequences of the Trust's attack in future episodes, but if I was SG-1, I wouldn't rule out using the poison in defense of Earth sometime in the future.

[aschen]

I'm starting to like the Trust. The SGC and Tok'Ra have been far too tolerant in regards to the Goa'uld. A force of such magnitude NEEDS to be delt with appropriately.

[Skydiver]

When the snake dies doesn't it create some toxin that kills the host? That would be the reason for the hosts dying so quickly.

from summit
DANIEL: And it doesn't kill the host?

REN-AL: Not the chemical itself, but as you know, the dying symbiote
releases it's own toxin which is just as deadly.

now one thing....it's implied that it's a conscious choice. Since Jolinar didn't kill Sam, nor did Kanan when it left Jack (yeah, Kanan wasn't dying but he did leave)

So, given Sam and Kendra and Skaara we have a couple of possibilities

a) the symbiote toxin is released by choice. Jolinar chose not to, Kendra's snake either chose not to or was prevented from doing it by the Hammer, and Klorel either didn't choose to kill Skaara, or was prevented from doing so by the Tok'ra. Klorel also wasn't dying.
We don't know how Sarah and Osiris was separated. Daniel said the Tok'ra did it, but again, we don't know all the details.

b) Barring Asgard influence, Sam and Jolinar were a fluke and a continuity oops and the toxin release is autonomic response on part of the symbiote and sam/Jolinar is an error.

[Major Tyler]

Barring Asgard influence, Sam and Jolinar were a fluke and a continuity oops and the toxin release is autonomic response on part of the symbiote and Sam/Jolinar is an error.

Perhaps not releasing the toxin takes the concious effect. That would mean that the symbiote in "Endgame" was too surprised and didn't have time to prevent her toxin from killing the host.

[Atum]

Their rationale would be the same as 'ok, one person from country X is planning a terrorist attack, so we're gonna nuke the whole country to keep ti from happening again'

No, the attacks already happened. They know who the bad guys are. Plus, it works.

It is genocide and it's murder.

Extinction is the alternative. You would rather have that?

But to murder someone who hasn't attacked you just to keep them from possibly doing it some day? That's wrong.

Again, they HAVE previously attacked.

I think the Trust is spot on in their strategy. When the stakes are that big, the "ends" are all that matter.

[cobraR478]

I think the very fact that there are rebel Jaffa discounts the idea that they are trapped against their will in the service of the Gou'ald. They do have a choice, it's just not a very pretty one.

As we've seen in other episodes, such as Bloodlines (where Daniel guns down a tank full of presumably sentient baby Gou'alds), There But For… (where alt. O'Neill nukes Chulak) and Last Stand (where the symbiote poison is first used), SG-1 is not above using morally questionable tactics to obtain their ends. There will obviously be consequences of the Trust's attack in future episodes, but if I was SG-1, I wouldn't rule out using the poison in defense of Earth sometime in the future.

They are still enslaved. There were rebel blacks while there was slavery in the US, does that change the fact that there were still slaves?

Using the poison to defend Earth from an attack is so incredibly different than dialing random Goa'uld occupied planets and killing everyone that it is uncomparable in my opinion.