Rodney McKay/David Hewlett Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

[McKayRocks!]

Well this is the only dignified pic I have! I know it is well used but I can stand to see it again!



Arlessiar - I like your idea about being last in the queue - wish I had thought of it!

Mx

[Arlessiar]

Now to your rant, Willow.
First let me say that I completely agree with everything you said! Greened ya.

Spoiler:

I for one am desperately hoping that McKay will get to use that dam brain of his.He seems to be focusing more and more on less scientific type activities, or rather we see less of him in his lab actually working on things

I'd love to see him in the lab some more, too. Of course I understand that this show is mainly about gate travel and adventures, but a little more scientific stuff in general would be nice, and McKay is the man for that, why not use his character this way?

["McKay and Mrs Miller"]
This could be a great character exploration episode.

Then again I can't help thinking from some of the other spoilers I have read, that this too may end up a 'joke at McKay's expense' episode. [...]
Also if most or all of those on Atlantis would 'rather be working with Jeannie instead of McKay' as apparently DH stated in a recent interview. *I don't know* It seems like an episode to "put McKay in his place" and I for one don't want to see that!

I was looking forward to this ep so much, you have no idea how much. Well, I still do, but as more and more info was published my enthusiasm was diminished. Now I fear that this might not only be a cliché episode, but also, like you said, an "let's pick on McKay and his supposed brilliancy" episode.
In the end everything might turn out alright, we have to see the ep first, but my expectations aren't that high anymore, now I just hope that it won't be a bashing fest. Hope I can still trust Martin Gero, since he likes to write for the McKay character.

TPTB need to reassert that McKay has earned his place on Atlantis and that includes his place on The Team. They need to make it clear that McKay is a genius if only to make it reasonable that Sheppard and the others would risk their lives to save him.

I agree, they need to make clear again why McKay is on Atlantis, why he is needed there, and why he's valuable. It's not enough to just say that he's a genius when all you see is his arrogance and his failures. I really think it's time that RM has big success with something. That doesn't mean (since I see the non McKay fans screaming already) that I want him to have all the big storylines and all the attention. No, certainly not, I can be realistic, you know? But I want a counterpart for "Trinity". The authors, the actors, the press everyone emphasizes that McKay is a genius, but mostly we see him doing nothing really scientific or he's screwing something up. I want to see that he's as good as everyone and he himself claims. It's not enough to see that he can work on an atomic bombs or can use an ancient computer or deal with a ZPM, Zelenka and others can do all that too. And look at Sam Carter - not that I like that she seems to know a solution for nearly everything, but at least she does have some successful moments and even gets credit for it from other characters on the show. Does she deserve that more only because she's more humble than McKay?

And about the 'worth saving' bit: I noticed that a fandom tends to fill the gaps a TV show (or book or whatever) has. When there's not enough romance or whump or something, they compensate and put it into fanart or fanfic or discussions. And the more there is about one specific subject, the more it's missing in canon.
It's the same in this case: Did you see how many teamfics are out there, trying to come up with substitutes for the lack of emotional involvement on the show? How many fics there are where Sheppard shows that he leaves no-one behind? And how many fics deal with Rodney's insecurities and his friends giving him the support or reassurement he needs and telling him what he means to them? Friendship fics, millions of them! Did we ever hear the word "friend" on the show?
I don't say that all of these fics are perfect, but it shows that people feel that there's something missing on the show and that it needs to be said. And there's so much out there about Rodney and his importance and brilliancy, and that he's not only arrogant but also very easily hurt - why can't they do a tiny little bit of that on the show?
Btw, I always voted for the option that TPTB actually should take a look at the fandom, what they often try to avoid. But they really should, not because they should take ideas, and not because they should see things like slash (they should be grown up enough to ignore/accept that), but only to see what their show is lacking. If you look at the fandom in general and gather enough data, then you can get a good picture of what the people think of their favourite show, and that can be a good influence. In a way fandom is a mirror, reflecting the consequences of your actions.

I know that there has been talk about The Team dynamics and how some don't feel as if there is any comradeship as they had with SG-1 under Jack's command. Well no wonder if we don't get to really see them risking their lives for each other, if we see *again Runner* the leader of said team making sloppy decisions, Sheppard needed to take control of the situation in Runner and find McKay, make that his number one priority.

I'm also still wondering how strange Sheppard acted in 'Runner'. Yes, he wanted to get Ford back, who was also a member of the team, but his reaction to the news that McKay was gone was nearly an insult.

Well, so much about this. I still have my hopes and fears for season 3. Let's see how it'll turn out.

Bye, A.

EDIT: Forgot spoiler tags *facepalm*

[teknikal]

i can picture you hugging him and then him looking down to realise..hes moving!!!

[watcher652]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...JustRodney.jpg

What episode is this cap from, I don't recognize it off hand. Thanks.

[Arlessiar]

What episode is this cap from, I don't recognize it off hand. Thanks.

I have to admit I don't know right now, I made this cap a long time ago. Unfortunately I can't look through my eps at the moments because, well, they're gone, and it's too late here to search for the DVD right now. It's definitely from the first season (shirt. ) and my guess is that it's Sanctuary, but I'm not sure. Sorry that I can't give you a better answer right now, tomorrow in the evening I could take a look at my DVD.

Bye, A.

[Catsitter]

I have only seen up to "Duet" so far (waiting to get some more DVD's for my birthday in a couple of weeks!) but every time I think about "Runner" it annoys me because
sorry I didn't realise that this was a spoiler because I thought this was already discussed on this thread, I am really sorry!

Spoiler:

there was no reason given why Rodney had to go on the mission, and if I start thinking about why Weir and Sheppard made him go on it, hmmm... well, I just have to stop thinking about it really! They could so easily have put in some stuff about needing him to go and monitor the radiation's effect on the equipment or something, but of course then he would have agreed it was important for him to go so they couldn't have had all that "funny" stuff about sun cream etc. Without that, surely there must be some military types who would have been more suitable for the mission? Perhaps military friends of Ford's? I suppose he had some? It can't be the fact that Rodney is part of Sheppard's team as it was not an exploration team type of mission and there were loads of people not on the team who went. All I can think is that Shep can't bear not to have Rodney nearby! Well, like I said, I just get angry every time I think about it. And you are all so right, Shep doesn't seem too worried about him being missing . Well, let's say it is my least favourite out of the 4 season 2 ones I have seen so far.

I am really looking forward to "McKay and Mrs. Miller", though, but I suppose it will be ages and ages before I get to see it.

[Willow'sCat]

Morning glad I don't have work I didn't sleep well, don't know why at least this time I could sleep in.

teknikal Sorry to hear you can't be around so much, yes work takes up big chunks of time but hopefully the money (if nothing else) makes it worth it.

Arlessiar thanks for the green. I just got redded! It came in handy (wasn't who I thought it would be)

What episode is this cap from, I don't recognize it off hand. Thanks.

I am pretty sure it is from Sanctuary when he is talking with Peter and asks what happened to all his Saturday nights. One of my favourite scenes, the lighting and posture seem right to me it's kind of like this one. Well his head is in the right place and his hair is as messy/ruffled.

[Willow'sCat]

Remember spoilers people!

Season two/three spoilers.

Spoiler:

I'm also still wondering how strange Sheppard acted in 'Runner'. Yes, he wanted to get Ford back, who was also a member of the team, but his reaction to the news that McKay was gone was nearly an insult.

Spoiler:

You see for me Ford was/is expendable sadly that is what being in the military is about (sorry but in this context yes it is), but of course Sheppard seems to have made a reputation on not leaving anyone behind (apparently Afghanistan and that black mark) so on one level I understand why he reacted the way he did, but it was still wrong it still put the most important person on Atlantis at risk. Whether people like it or not Atlantis needs McKay more than it needs even Sheppard. In fact look at the way Sheppard will throw himself into harmful situations to protect the people of Atlantis. That is now why he is there, even more so then having the gene.

Runner wanted in my mind to say too much about Sheppard and Fords relationship, really other then introducing Ronon it was a Sheppard/Ford episode. But where TPTB may have gone a little wrong IMO is not making it clear why McKay was on the planet, why Sheppard was quite frankly hostile to him and then not having Weir talk to him about all of that, in a real way. I haven't watched it for a while and I do know Weir and Sheppard did talk when he went back to Atlantis but I don't remember him specifically saying he had lost McKay (sorry if I got that wrong).

For Sheppard Runner was in some ways in keeping with his character but it was not a good example of how the Team should behave, and maybe it was a changing of the guards episode with Ronon coming into the show but it still felt like it was trying too hard to say too much. In the end it said very little.

Re: McKay & Mrs Miller:

I was looking forward to this ep so much, you have no idea how much. Well, I still do, but as more and more info was published my enthusiasm was diminished. Now I fear that this might not only be a cliché episode, but also, like you said, an "let's pick on McKay and his supposed brilliancy" episode.
In the end everything might turn out alright, we have to see the ep first, but my expectations aren't that high anymore, now I just hope that it won't be a bashing fest. Hope I can still trust Martin Gero, since he likes to write for the McKay character.

I was also looking forward to this episode, and still am if only for the Hewlett family angle. Unfortunately the spoilers leave a lot to be desired, I don't expect that much from SGA but if they are going to do an episode like this and have McKay's sister then at the very least it should have a lot of development for McKay or it will just be another filler episode and what is the point?

But I want a counterpart for "Trinity".

I think they tried for that in "Inferno" he did come up with a great plan, not sure of the science behind it but it worked and all involved were very impressed and let him know it. Of course the same episode had him fawning again over a blond and being rather silly.

Does she deserve that more only because she's more humble than McKay?

You know the comparisons to Sam get old very quickly, Sam is military and she is written to be hard as nails but with a soft scientific underbelly, not always to the betterment of females everywhere but then men write most of this stuff, she is also very much the second in command and that gives her automatic respect. If Jack could trust her then she has to be OK.

McKay didn't have that in SG-1 of course he was the antagonist and some in SG-1 fandom still see him as a (well you know what). On SGA he has been tamed a little (already mentioned that) but he doesn't have the soft underbelly *be quite* he grates even with people who know him well, so in short YES if he was humble like good old Samantha Carter, then he would get/have more respect. Well open respect because I do think they respect him but they are wary of his ego getting out of hand ("Trinity") but he did light up in "Inferno" when they started to praise him and I would rather see that more often then the obvious "whumping" of him emotionally, I mean there is whump and then there is treating him like a punching bag to justify everyone else's place on Atlantis.

The Team:

I was so glad to hear not only Martin Gero but also Brad Wright make mention of the need to have a better team dynamic in the show. The (maybe) third episode may see this but personally I think for it to happen we need to see them communicating more with each other, I notice while watching even season 9 of SG-1 that Mitchell manages to have conversations with the other team members and he is the new guy! I don't think it is because three of them are from Earth I think it is because over the space of 2-3 seasons the writers really worked on developing a way to have that happen in episodes, whether it was Daniel/Jack talking as they wandered around a new planet, or Sam trying to explain what this new technology was for and some banter. Teal'c interactions may be less but it still seems more then we get in SGA!!!

Maybe one of the problems is that the writers don't have a solid understanding of Ronon or Teyla, they do most of the banter between McKay/Sheppard well (although was it me or did it seem like there was less banter in season two) but even the conversations between Ronon and Teyla seem stilted. Maybe with a new enemy to fight they will be able to relate better to one and other, but it is a glaring whole in the series if you ask me.

Yes SGA is a little different, there are more credited actors/characters to make involve in episodes but really the Team is the best place to start when trying to make the show worth watching.

[Willow'sCat]

Old school McKay.

[ToasterOnFire]

Anyho, on to the ramble/rant.

Spoilers for season's 2 & 3

Spoiler:

I for one am desperately hoping that McKay will get to use that dam brain of his.

He seems to be focusing more and more on less scientific type activities, or rather we see less of him in his lab actually working on things, I mean really "Trinity" for all it's faults was good if only to show that he actually is a scientist.

I know 99% of people like the "blow 'em up" episodes but I do hope for a little science in my scifi and I would like to see it on screen instead of it just being the cliched we have been working on this for months and now it is ready to be used... in the nick of time research blah, blah blah!

Having read some of the spoilers for the first (maybe only) McKay centric episode "McKay and Mrs Miller" it would seem we are going to get a McKay having to deal with his own personal failings, either between him and his sister Jeannie or in a whole of person sense.

Lets face it, he is not married, he has no children he has only his work and it seems even his life's work may have been less important to the scientific world if his sister had not chosen to have a family.

This could be a great character exploration episode.

Then again I can't help thinking from some of the other spoilers I have read, that this too may end up a 'joke at McKay's expense' episode. If he is to meet with Sam if it is made clear in the episode that he would have been second choice to go to Atlantis if Jeannie had gone ahead with her career. If it turns out Jeannie is smarter and if it turns out she would have followed a similar career path to her brother.

Also if most or all of those on Atlantis would 'rather be working with Jeannie instead of McKay' as apparently DH stated in a recent interview. *I don't know* It seems like an episode to "put McKay in his place" and I for one don't want to see that!

Hearing that makes my heart sink, I really cannot understand why TPTB need to make McKay (even with his grating personality) so un-liked amongst his peers, I don't think they hate him but yes sometimes I get the impression they wouldn't care if he did leave Atlantis.

To me it sends a mixed message; either you are going to say he is a valuable member of the Team and must be protected or you are going to say he is so easily replaced that sure Sheppard can leave him behind (Runner) to save Teyla instead. I think sometimes TPTB skirt too close to saying he is not that valuable or that intelligent and yeah maybe he could be replaced.

Of course I don't think he is replaceable but it is the impression, the impression that Sam is so much smarter, that now his sister is smarter, that there must be hundreds out there smarter... well why have McKay? TPTB need to reassert that McKay has earned his place on Atlantis and that includes his place on The Team. They need to make it clear that McKay is a genius if only to make it reasonable that Sheppard and the others would risk their lives to save him.

I know that there has been talk about The Team dynamics and how some don't feel as if there is any comradeship as they had with SG-1 under Jack's command. Well no wonder if we don't get to really see them risking their lives for each other, if we see *again Runner* the leader of said team making sloppy decisions, Sheppard needed to take control of the situation in Runner and find McKay, make that his number one priority.

I understand it was a difficult situation Ronon had that tracker device thing, and so The Wraith were going to come across him at some point but it still makes no sense for Sheppard to be so blase when Lorne tells him McKay is missing.

I don't remember who has the gene to pilot the Jumpers but it seems silly to have only one military type able to pilot the Jumpers if they need to return to Atlantis for back up or as in this case to get Beckett. I am not even sure why McKay was on this mission. Wasn't it to get Ford back? OK yes I have not watched it for a while.

Of course it makes interesting TV to a point but why not do both? Why not make this the type of situation where you think that yes Sheppard understands how important McKay is to Atlantis and he personally goes out and searches for him. Instead we almost feel the contempt he had for McKay right from the start of this episode. I understand with events in future episodes why Sheppard may feel that way but it seems so out of the blue in Runner, also I will say they became a little closer and acted more like a Team in later episodes but I still feel TPTB are sending mixed messages.

You can't have a Team if it's members just don't like each other or if members hold each other in contempt. They need to respect each other at the very least but IMO we haven't felt that for ages, we have a fractured Team. Buck stops with the Leader, which is why I am looking forward to the opener of Season 3 becasue at least 3 of the Team members will have to work together and yes McKay looks like he will be using his brain to get them off the Hive Ship. Of course it may end in Sheppard and Ronon just blasting their way off... ho hum.

OK that will do I have to go and eat.

Wow, I'd like to tag a big WORD to all of that.

My additional thoughts...

Spoiler:

I've also noticed the "meh" attitude the others have on the team when McKay is in trouble. It's particularly pronounced in GUP - Rodney's sinking in a dead PJ and Shep and the others seem to have this attitude of "Weee...we get to try out this new rescue procedure!" It just felt...off.

I appreciate Rodney because he's such a flawed character, but it's easy to reach a point where the character's flaws are used so often or contradict previous development that they become crippling. Having Rodney drop the gun clip in Siege 3 and run like a screaming girl in Runner were WAY OTT scenes meant for a laugh, but ultimately weakened the character and ruined all the progression he's had in the first season, IMO. I was frustrated with such scenes, and I hope that they are minimized in s3.

I wish there had been more fallout from "Trinity". I don't see the point of dragging a character down if you never get the chance to see them get back up. Rodney's mistake in Trinity and his subsequent loss of trust with both Shep and Weir were never mentioned after that ep - a complete waste.

I'm looking forward to McKay and Mrs. Miller as long as 1) He doesn't act like a misogynist around his sis (DH apparently made some comment way back in s1 about McKay being one, though I certainly haven't seen it and don't want to start seeing it now), 2) He doesn't turn into a total doofus around Carter. Some awkwardness is fine for me, but I'd like to see their relationship progress past TPTB's vision of Rodney as bumbling high school guy with a crush into something more productive and respectful (non-shippy please) and 3) the purpose of this ep isn't to put Rodney in his place like you mentioned.

[Abydonian Princess]

ah yes but having the puddle jumper would attract rodney!!!

Good point!!
Well if you have a puddle jumper I shall have to think of something else - perhaps a dress made from power bars!!

Yeah well here's a photo I took of what I like to call my Rodney luring Device, I keep it in my back yard well hidden by vines and leaves and stuff. I have a feeling that once word gets out that I have one of these, Rodney will come running, hell they might even launch an expidition and I'll have Shep, Rodney and Ronan knocking on my door... hmmm

ArlessiarYou poor thing! I couldn't think of anything worse! I do back all my stuff up regularly but I'm still terrified of that happening to me! I really don't know that much about computers so I can't give you much advice just good luck. I hope you get it all sorted out soon! *HUGS*

Hope this cheers you up somewhat

[Willow'sCat]

Wow, I'd like to tag a big WORD to all of that.

My additional thoughts...

Spoiler:

I've also noticed the "meh" attitude the others have on the team when McKay is in trouble. It's particularly pronounced in GUP - Rodney's sinking in a dead PJ and Shep and the others seem to have this attitude of "Weee...we get to try out this new rescue procedure!" It just felt...off.

I appreciate Rodney because he's such a flawed character, but it's easy to reach a point where the character's flaws are used so often or contradict previous development that they become crippling. Having Rodney drop the gun clip in Siege 3 and run like a screaming girl in Runner were WAY OTT scenes meant for a laugh, but ultimately weakened the character and ruined all the progression he's had in the first season, IMO. I was frustrated with such scenes, and I hope that they are minimized in s3.

I wish there had been more fallout from "Trinity". I don't see the point of dragging a character down if you never get the chance to see them get back up. Rodney's mistake in Trinity and his subsequent loss of trust with both Shep and Weir were never mentioned after that ep - a complete waste.

I'm looking forward to McKay and Mrs. Miller as long as 1) He doesn't act like a misogynist around his sis (DH apparently made some comment way back in s1 about McKay being one, though I certainly haven't seen it and don't want to start seeing it now), 2) He doesn't turn into a total doofus around Carter. Some awkwardness is fine for me, but I'd like to see their relationship progress past TPTB's vision of Rodney as bumbling high school guy with a crush into something more productive and respectful (non-shippy please) and 3) the purpose of this ep isn't to put Rodney in his place like you mentioned.

Can I have your brain? You put it so much better then I did.

Spoilers season 3

Spoiler:

I don't think around his sister he would be anything other then respectful becasue they are siblings and obviously from what he said in Letter's from Pegasus, Rodney feels the need for a stronger relationship with Jeannie. At least I am hoping for much respect towards her.

As for Sam; well it will probably happen (rumour is she will appear in the episode) but thankfully it should be a very brief encounter and not disturb SGA McKay's character too much.

I think he is a little misogynistic, but again it is born more out of not knowing how to really relate to women then thinking they are lesser beings. In a completely non shippy way, I actually think McKay is the type of guy who when he does meet the right women he would be nothing but respectful. He just needs to meet her.

What you said about TPTB vision of Rodney... right on the money it is the same with the Kirking of Sheppard, they want to type cast them I think because it is easier for them to write the characters, but I hope Martin Gero can get away from some of the more bumbling aspects of McKay's character ( Mr Gero you are so much better then that man! ) and present some kind of well rounded, if not arrogant Rodney. I really don't mind the arrogance it is the silly/fumbling and searching for the right words McKay that I don't like.

LESS IS MORE!!!

Just please don't make me cringe.

[Arlessiar]

Arlessiar thanks for the green. I just got redded! It came in handy (wasn't who I thought it would be)

Red? Did you cause trouble again, hun? Nah, really, I'm sorry about that red dot, wish I could give you more green to compensate.

I am pretty sure it is from Sanctuary when he is talking with Peter and asks what happened to all his Saturday nights.

Yay, thanks, so my memory isn't absolute crap. It was 'Sanctuary'.

Hope this cheers you up somewhat

Yes, it does, thanks!

Have to go to work, Bye!
A.

[Willow'sCat]

Red? Did you cause trouble again, hun? Nah, really, I'm sorry about that red dot, wish I could give you more green to compensate.

Heehee, people just don't like it when you point out that maybe a thread has already been started with the same topic. Jeez people around here are touchy.

Yay, thanks, so my memory isn't absolute crap. It was 'Sanctuary'.

I only know it because it is a great line, so Rodney.

Er... have fun at work, you don't often pop by before work, get up too early?

Well I am off to watch a rather questionable Joe Flanigan TV pilot he did in the late 90's, sounds um interesting. I think it was heavily ripped off from the X-Files.

[RoryJ]

Whew, two posts in one week . . . I've been lurking for four years now, so this is a mini-mildstone for me, hee hee.
In response to Willow'sCat's (thanks for the green, btw ) post about Rodney actually being respectful to the "right" women, I completely agree. We've seen this from him in concerns to both Sam and Elizabeth (and I'm referring to them in a non-shippy way; I love Rodney's relationship with both women, but I ship Sam/Jack and Sparky . . .)
With Sam in Redemption, we see him start the episode being a bit misogynistic, or at the very least, sexually disrespectful. He tells her that she's "just as sexy as ever" in the control room when she is working with fellow colleagues, all of whom heard the comment. Rude. Rodney, but rude. However, as the episode progresses, he realizes Sam is a formidible scientist and starts to work with her in a more respectful way. The key scene is when he deems her worthy to know about his uncomfortable childhood and his feelings of inadequacy in both music and science, a revelation that we know is a momentous step for the Rodney of SGA, who would NEVER be so upfront about his own self-doubts and childhood experiences (a fact that makes me look forward to McKay and Mrs. Miller that much more, if only for the backstory).
As for Elizabeth, I'm not a McWeir shipper at all, but I LOVE his relationship with Liz and want to see more of it. Look at how he speaks to her. There are so many moments when he opens with the same level of snark and irreverence when speaking with her just as he does with everyone else, but then quickly backpedals when his brain catches up with his mouth. Off the top of my head, I can think of the second scene he had with her in Childhood's End as an example, but most noticably in Duet, when

Spoiler:

he snaps at her in the hangar and then immediately reels it in, the apologetic look on his face very telling and, IMO, very sweet.

Rodney doesn't like to disappoint Elizabeth, and he is always trying to behave better around her, at least the way I see it. I love the scene in Home when he feels very uncomfortable not wearing any pants around her (what a strange sounding sentence . . .) and he almost blushes with embarassment. Rodney+Elizabeth= cute, and IMO respectful.
Something I just though of when it comes to him and women; he was very respectful and considerate with Allina in The Brotherhood before the others pointed out her crush. In the first scene with them, he was thanking her for their hospitality, commenting her on her work, telling her how smart she was, asking her to call him Rodney, etc. It was only after the others messed with his mind that he got all flustered.
To sum up a very long-winded post, I think Rodney starts out with slight misogynistic tendencies, but it really is just him acting superior to women, which is silly, because he acts superior to everyone: man, woman, or Asgard. In fact, all of his relationships with females exemplify a Rodney who's on his best behavior.

Spoiler:

Except the comment in Epiphany when he called Teyla "Xena". It was OOC in my opinion. We've never had a reason to think that Rodney would be so rude in concerns to Teyla. Look at how he defended her in Suspicion, or how he valued her comment about his bravery in The Seige III, or how he trusted her with very important techinical tasks in both Aurora and Epiphany. Sigh, you know what? Rodney+Teyla=cute, too. We need more interaction between those two in season 3, b/c they're adorable. I always giggle at her "Are you alright?" in Aurora, followed by Rodney's little, "So send me in?". Adorable.

Anyways, Rodney=love. I think that was the point of my post.