Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Parlay?

[Anuna]

Oh you know that song by Queen, "Don't stop me now"? LOL.

[JT-2]

LOL I think Rodney is far better Sparky shipper. Kolya may be good for ship on general terms, but let's not forget he is a) a bad guy, b) a sociopat, and c) there's nothing redeeming or good about him. He's cruel, ruthless and doesn't hesitate inflicting serious pain and harm to people in order to assure his interests are met - in fact I think a "terrorist" would be a good definition of him and his actions. Let's not romanticize his role much. I admire Robert Daavi and his amazing acting skills, I do. I think Kolya is far best bad guy in SGA, but he's a bad guy. Let's not forget that.

Totally agree with you. Kolya brings out some good Sparky because he's such a villian. But he's a truly terrible person. I watched The Storm/The Eye the other day, and Kolya was quite diabolical. He killled the 2 bacon-loving guys for no good reason. Even Sora was shocked, and said they could have been overpowered.

[Anuna]

Totally agree with you. Kolya brings out some good Sparky because he's such a villian. But he's a truly terrible person. I watched The Storm/The Eye the other day, and Kolya was quite diabolical. He killled the 2 bacon-loving guys for no good reason. Even Sora was shocked, and said they could have been overpowered.

Yes, exactly. He's a good bad guy because he can give you chills - with a reason. He is evil. I feel really uncomfortable when people try to make him into something good. he's not, period.

[JT-2]

Wow - I love this. And I read all this yesterday but my head hurt too much to respond properly to this wonderful insight.

I can't but agree with you here and i have to wonder is this some kind of miracle. Because it feels too much like continuity, and good writing and yes, in fact, ship - while PTB were swearing left and right they weren't writing it. Maybe this is just Universe being on our side? let me laugh in honor to that because we deserve it.

The thing is, within incredibily episodic SGA we had John and Elizabeth and a continuous progression of their relationship - in the beginning he seemed like he tried to oppose her more than it was strictly necessary, and she was patiently teaching him that they were on the same side, until, by the end of S1 John accepted that and in Siege we saw that he was "behind" her 100%. This change happened somewhere between Hot Zone and Siege. My own theory is that he realized she was giving him another chance even afterw hat he did in HZ - any of his previosu commanders would have demoted him to toilet cleaning function after that. However Elizabeth didn't, and after season 1 we know she fought for John remaining in position of military commander - and John realized this too.

I think I'm going to rewatch Epiphany - won't be a hard task after all. I love the episode. I think John has gotten over part of his issues and embarced Atlantis and people who were/are close to him on Atlantis as his chosen family. I think taht's when it settled in his head that he found a home where he belonged. He was at his best through rest of S2 and S3. After Carson died and after they all/he lost Elizabeth his balance shifted again, and that's something he could regain through SGA Rising season. (and it's a big pressure because "Gravity" should be a crucial episode for him, regaining this balance. oooh.)

Oh yeah, I think the continuity was a complete gift from the universe. Look at McKeller. They were trying to write that ship and it was all over the place!

This reminds me that I've gotta keep going with my S4/S5 rewatch. I'll never finish at the rate I'm going. Well, I think once I get past Doppelganger that I'll be able to just watch and not get so upset.

[Falcon Horus]

Oh you know that song by Queen, "Don't stop me now"? LOL.

Great, now I'm stuck with that song in my head... Woohoo!!!

[Anuna]

Great, now I'm stuck with that song in my head... Woohoo!!!

I live to serve, m'lady

[Southern Red]

Great, now I'm stuck with that song in my head... Woohoo!!!

Tell me about it. Since I watched The Mentalist last night, I've had "Copacabana" stuck in my head. Her name was Lola. She was a showgirl. *hates Patrick Jane*

And ITA on the Kolya discussion. He was John's nemesis...hateful, evil, heartless and cruel. He enjoyed making John suffer. Who punches a bound prisoner in the face like he did in Remnants? Who laughs at someone's suffering like he did in CG? Evil.

But we love Davi because he's a great actor and are sad that such a good character got such a stupid ending.

[Falcon Horus]

But we love Davi because he's a great actor and are sad that such a good character got such a stupid ending.

Great... now the tune in my head changed to "It's the Wild, Wild West..." ...

[Southern Red]

Great... now the tune in my head changed to "It's the Wild, Wild West..." ...

I prefer the theme from Bonanza. Or that vaguely Clint Eastwoody music they played in Vegas.

[Anuna]

I prefer the theme from Bonanza. Or that vaguely Clint Eastwoody music they played in Vegas.

Spaghetti western, Ennio Morricone, I am doomed.

[Falcon Horus]

I prefer the theme from Bonanza.

My grandfather loved that show - hence why I know about it.

[Southern Red]

My grandfather loved that show - hence why I know about it.

Your grandfather. Sigh. My first crush was Michael Landon. I was about 10 at the time. LOL See I had my celebrity boyfriends even then.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!

I'll have you all know that all these songs you've got ping-ponging in my head will be the death of me, I swear.

Wow - I love this. And I read all this yesterday but my head hurt too much to respond properly to this wonderful insight.

I can't but agree with you here and i have to wonder is this some kind of miracle. Because it feels too much like continuity, and good writing and yes, in fact, ship - while PTB were swearing left and right they weren't writing it. Maybe this is just Universe being on our side? let me laugh in honor to that because we deserve it.

The thing is, within incredibily episodic SGA we had John and Elizabeth and a continuous progression of their relationship - in the beginning he seemed like he tried to oppose her more than it was strictly necessary, and she was patiently teaching him that they were on the same side, until, by the end of S1 John accepted that and in Siege we saw that he was "behind" her 100%. This change happened somewhere between Hot Zone and Siege. My own theory is that he realized she was giving him another chance even afterw hat he did in HZ - any of his previosu commanders would have demoted him to toilet cleaning function after that. However Elizabeth didn't, and after season 1 we know she fought for John remaining in position of military commander - and John realized this too.

I think I'm going to rewatch Epiphany - won't be a hard task after all. I love the episode. I think John has gotten over part of his issues and embarced Atlantis and people who were/are close to him on Atlantis as his chosen family. I think taht's when it settled in his head that he found a home where he belonged. He was at his best through rest of S2 and S3. After Carson died and after they all/he lost Elizabeth his balance shifted again, and that's something he could regain through SGA Rising season. (and it's a big pressure because "Gravity" should be a crucial episode for him, regaining this balance. oooh.)

Oh, indeed! Just look at where John was when we first meet him. He's stuck in a dead-end assignment at the bottom of the world, left there to rot by his superiors after he did the right thing at the wrong time. But Elizabeth doesn't care about that. All she cares about is that he has something that can help the expedition, and that little exchange she has with O'Neill says that she sees potential in Sheppard to be more. Elizabeth's willing to give him the chance that no one else was, and under her leadership, we see John thrive and develop into a fine leader in his own right.

Every time I think about that, I also think about that exchange John has with Harmony; while the episode itself was terrible, I think this scene gives us another of those "Weir's ghost" scenes:

SHEPPARD: Right! Nervous about being Queen?

HARMONY: No! Why would I be?

SHEPPARD: It's a lot of responsibility.

HARMONY: I know that.

SHEPPARD: Gotta put the needs of your people before anything else, including your own.

HARMONY: Some of the time, yes.

SHEPPARD: No, pretty much all of the time.

HARMONY: I'm sure I will strike a proper balance.

SHEPPARD: Just remember, you're not Queen because of divine right. You're Queen because they allow you to be Queen. If you're mean to the people, they may change their minds. Just remember that.

HARMONY: You know much about leadership, John.

SHEPPARD: Hard-learned lessons along the way.

Though Elizabeth is never mentioned by name, John totally has to be thinking of her and the lessons he learned from her here; I'm pretty sure I even saw the iconic woobie-for-Elizabeth face on display.

LOL I think Rodney is far better Sparky shipper. Kolya may be good for ship on general terms, but let's not forget he is a) a bad guy, b) a sociopat, and c) there's nothing redeeming or good about him. He's cruel, ruthless and doesn't hesitate inflicting serious pain and harm to people in order to assure his interests are met - in fact I think a "terrorist" would be a good definition of him and his actions. Let's not romanticize his role much. I admire Robert Daavi and his amazing acting skills, I do. I think Kolya is far best bad guy in SGA, but he's a bad guy. Let's not forget that.

Indeed. Kolya is EVIL incarnate.

And ITA on the Kolya discussion. He was John's nemesis...hateful, evil, heartless and cruel. He enjoyed making John suffer. Who punches a bound prisoner in the face like he did in Remnants? Who laughs at someone's suffering like he did in CG? Evil.

Who taunts someone about killing another, even when he didn't go through with it, as Kolya did to John about Weir in "The Storm"/"The Eye"? Evil, indeed.

But we love Davi because he's a great actor and are sad that such a good character got such a stupid ending.

I still wish there was a logical way we could fix that in Atlantis Rising, but there's just too many bits of evidence against it.

[Southern Red]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!

I'll have you all know that all these songs you've got ping-ponging in my head will be the death of me, I swear.







Oh, indeed! Just look at where John was when we first meet him. He's stuck in a dead-end assignment at the bottom of the world, left there to rot by his superiors after he did the right thing at the wrong time. But Elizabeth doesn't care about that. All she cares about is that he has something that can help the expedition, and that little exchange she has with O'Neill says that she sees potential in Sheppard to be more. Elizabeth's willing to give him the chance that no one else was, and under her leadership, we see John thrive and develop into a fine leader in his own right.

Every time I think about that, I also think about that exchange John has with Harmony; while the episode itself was terrible, I think this scene gives us another of those "Weir's ghost" scenes:



Though Elizabeth is never mentioned by name, John totally has to be thinking of her and the lessons he learned from her here; I'm pretty sure I even saw the iconic woobie-for-Elizabeth face on display.



Indeed. Kolya is EVIL incarnate.



Who taunts someone about killing another, even when he didn't go through with it, as Kolya did to John about Weir in "The Storm"/"The Eye"? Evil, indeed.



I still wish there was a logical way we could fix that in Atlantis Rising, but there's just too many bits of evidence against it.

Didn't Anuna just hit that analysis out of the ballpark? Her professional training certainly comes in handy around here. The thread "shrink". LOL

And, oh yeah, John just never thought he could repay Elizabeth for all she did for him. She just got him on a basic level that made words unnecessary. He knew he could never fool her. We saw that time and time again. I wish I had time to find pics to back up that statement, but it's in canon and can't be denied. One scene I remember, that I think was mentioned earlier, is the "king" scene at the end of The Tower.

He started out with a simple report to her on how they left things and then before he could stop himself, it got personal and he proudly proclaimed that he "got the girl". But, not missing a beat, Elizabeth got that teasing look on her face and called him on it. And he backed off immediately. Now what would the average guy have done, puffed out his chest and repeated that the girl was hot for his jeans genes. But what did John do? He made light of it and began to twitch a bit and look at her nervously while doing that shy look thing he does and saying that he turned her down. He wanted her to know the girl meant nothing to him. Why? I'll let you decide.

And she understood right away that it was a joke because instead of teasing him further, she went right back to what they were talking about and asked him another question. And then she smiled and asked him about being king, knowing that he wouldn't accept such a thing. Complete and utter understanding of each other. That's what we have there. Makes me wonder how that episode would have gone had John and anybody else been reversed in their roles. Rodney? LOL Ronon? even better

Oh, and:

Spoiler: