Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

KoA died of natural causes, Henry had Anne Boleyn and Kathryn Howard executed (someone said I should pair John with Kitty, wrong on so many levels), More was also executed which Henry later regretted.

Anyway let me rephase that what I meant to say Sparky reminds me of More/KoA as a couple not them individually( personally the only thing I see between More and John is that they have the ability to never give up while I see more Parelles between KoA and Lizzie in personality...John I feel is an atheisist and for some reason Elizabeth as Jewish *ducks from flying objects* not die had catholic like More and KoA). Also if you in the Tudors fandom you would know Tomkat was one of the top non cannon couples.

Back to keeping this on the Sparky topic:



In terms of chivalry More and John are alike. When KoA was disgraced by Henry, More did everything in his power to support her, even to the bitter end. There are MANY examples in SGA where John defended Elizabeth's honor (Misbegotten for example) and life (The Storm/The Eye). KoA relied on More's support as did Elizabeth depended on John. Finally in both fandoms the showshad both couples show latent signs of attraction.

I mean I would go further in comparisons but some of you haven't seen the show. But hopefully you get the concept of what I am trying to explain.

Oh, you are talking about the show. I thought you were talking about history. I never saw the show so can't talk about that. But again, Sparky is without compare. We can all agree on that.

[TheLadyMore]

Oh, you are talking about the show. I thought you were talking about history. I never saw the show so can't talk about that. But again, Sparky is without compare. We can all agree on that.

Heavens No! , while they are both the same thing The show takes a life of it's own.

Yes Sparky is one of a kind it's Elizabeth and Johns characters that make them unique, but I have a tendency to compare and contrast my favorite aspects of my favorite fandoms.....it's a weird habit.

[Scary Kitty]

Teyla is certainly more mature than they are, that's for sure. LOL

Ohhh yeah. Why do you think I keep calling Teyla the older sister? LOL!

@JT -2 and Scary Kitty - you asked for Epiphany smut?

here you go.

That's the one! RAWR. *goes to reread*

The Tudors Nerd in me does not see John as Mr. Darcy. I see John as Thomas More and Elizabeth as his Katherine of Aragon. Yes I like More/KoA as a couple sue me. Anyway if you Sparkys like an explanation I will gladly give it to you.

Sorry, I just don't see the Tudors comparison at all.

But, this is a Sparky thread so why don't we get back to the topic? I'm sure we have prettier things to talk about, yes?

Indeed.

I reread Pride and Prejudice not too long ago and John is very much like Mr. Darcy. He doesn't talk a lot. He disdains the expected social jumping through hoops that's expected of him at times. He loves deeply and is self sacrificing. He's generous and courtly. I could go on.

Oh yes, John is very much like Mr. Darcy. Of course, it's rather hard to picture JF as Darcy when you've got Colin Firth. But I'll try.

I don't see John and Elizabeth as More and Katherine but your love for the Tudors must have led you to study them in depth and you know much more about them. i can't see John as the "Utopia" sort considering his comments about the pansy wannabes in Epiphany.

Hah! This.

[TheLadyMore]

Oh yes, John is very much like Mr. Darcy. Of course, it's rather hard to picture JF as Darcy when you've got Colin Firth. But I'll try.

Colin Firth maybe a hot Darcy as Keira Knightly is a great.....umm Elizabeth Bennet I believe....but if Torri and Joe were in that movie it would be epic.

Ps. I've got another couple to compare Sparky to that will make sense to us all.......

HAN/LEIA

[Anuna]

KoA died of natural causes, Henry had Anne Boleyn and Kathryn Howard executed (someone said I should pair John with Kitty, wrong on so many levels), More was also executed which Henry later regretted.

Anyway let me rephase that what I meant to say Sparky reminds me of More/KoA as a couple not them individually( personally the only thing I see between More and John is that they have the ability to never give up while I see more Parelles between KoA and Lizzie in personality...John I feel is an atheisist and for some reason Elizabeth as Jewish *ducks from flying objects* not die had catholic like More and KoA). Also if you in the Tudors fandom you would know Tomkat was one of the top non cannon couples.

Back to keeping this on the Sparky topic:

In terms of chivalry More and John are alike. When KoA was disgraced by Henry, More did everything in his power to support her, even to the bitter end. There are MANY examples in SGA where John defended Elizabeth's honor (Misbegotten for example) and life (The Storm/The Eye). KoA relied on More's support as did Elizabeth depended on John. Finally in both fandoms the showshad both couples show latent signs of attraction.

I mean I would go further in comparisons but some of you haven't seen the show. But hopefully you get the concept of what I am trying to explain.

See, this. I may be a narrow minded person, but they were real people. I just don't feel comfortable discussing who they should be paired up with. (It's the same thing with Band of brothers fandom... I don't care how pretty the actors are, this story is about real people, some of the still alive. have some respect toward the lives they lived).

Other thing is, it's very hard to follow your comparsions, at least for me. I don't watch Tudors and I don't think I ever will, and I suppose lot of your comments simply go unappreciated by some of our posters. We can't all follow the same shows everyone else does. I could go on about how Rodney and Sue Sylvester from Glee would be total soul mates, but I suppose you don't want to read that on Sparky thread. I think it's best if we all stick to what we all know and are familiar with. Of course, we will run comparsion between SGA and other things on occasion, but hopefully not on every page and in almost every post.

[Scary Kitty]

See, this. I may be a narrow minded person, but they were real people. I just don't feel comfortable discussing who they should be paired up with. (It's the same thing with Band of brothers fandom... I don't care how pretty the actors are, this story is about real people, some of the still alive. have some respect toward the lives they lived).

Agreed. It's one thing to compare them to fictional characters from other shows/books; that sort of thing is pretty common in literary analysis. But comparing them to real people... it starts treading close to RPF, and I do not like to go there. It's manipulating real people, and that's just wrong.

Other thing is, it's very hard to follow your comparsions, at least for me. I don't watch Tudors and I don't think I ever will, and I suppose lot of your comments simply go unappreciated by some of our posters. We can't all follow the same shows everyone else does. I could go on about how Rodney and Sue Sylvester from Glee would be total soul mates, but I suppose you don't want to read that on Sparky thread. I think it's best if we all stick to what we all know and are familiar with. Of course, we will run comparsion between SGA and other things on occasion, but hopefully not on every page and in almost every post.

Exactly. We're here for Sparky and Stargate Atlantis, not the Tudors, or Glee, or any other show. An occasional mention of other shows is perfectly fine, but let's not go overboard.

[JT-2]

There's way too much for me to reply to here to put in all one post. I'll have to break it up.

OH sweetie, I think I am in love with your brain! can we be friends?

I think that's a great way to describe it, she saw immediately that John wears his burdens heavily. I think she was able to read him well from the start, and he, perhaps, wouldn't let hismelf believe that someone finally is giving him the chance he's been craving. In the beginning, at least. He relaxed later and learned to let himself depend on her, and believe in her.

Yay - the resident shrink likes my brain! My brain can always use more friends!

And yes, by The Siege 2 he completely had her back.

So true. Right from that moment, he was the military commander in his own mind. That's a job that all commanders have to do at some time or another--give that speech to loved ones of a lost soldier. It's a sad thing and John did an admirable job. Her belief in him must have added to his strength at that time.

Don't you just know for all those months in Antarctica, he had been unsure of himself and had plenty of time to develop the bad self image he had when he first came to Atlantis? But, thanks to Elizabeth and all the new friends he had made, all that was overcome. It took a while longer to be completely at home, but by the end of his time with the pansy wannabes, he was over all that insecurity. Thanks mostly to her.

Of course, we can't give all the credit to Elizabeth. I would even include Rodney as someone who had helped John. The comfortable teasing relationship coupled with the actuality of being friends to the bone was very important to John and must have filled a void that his bad relationship with his brother must have left. And you can include Ronon, Teyla, Carson and even Ford also as friends who made John realize his own worth. Teyla always had a way of making people feel important, and her gentle little sister relationship with John was very important to him. I can't wait to read how you develop that and expand into all the "might have beens" in BoD.

Oh, definitely. He's very sarcastic and flippant in the beginning. I think it was his self defense mechanism. But he matured, partly due to Elizabeth believing in him. And she matured too partly thanks to him. She was very reticent to act early on, but got more decisive as time went on. That's what I love so much about them as a pairing - they both learned from each other. He became more deliberate; she more decisive. Perfect partnerships are based on each partner learning/helping each other. It's not all one way.

You guys are posting so fast I can't keep up, but I have to add something.

The last scene in The Intruder where even though they had spent 3 weeks together on the ship, he still couldn't stop looking at her even when Teyla was trying to brief them and compliment him on his promotion. I think he was sharing a sekrit moment with Elizabeth that said he knew it was all due to her. Awww.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/southernred/sga-2x02_3577.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/southernred/sga-2x02_3586.jpg

And look how proud Teyla is of her big brother. Hee. And ignoring her whiny little brother, Rodney. Also hee.

That's a great scene in a great episode. I'm surprised by who wrote it. But those people also wrote the epic "John Sheppard, are you defending my honor?" So they had their brief moments of greatness.

[Southern Red]

Now that the history HBO, or was it Showtime, comparisons are out of the way, back to our regularly scheduled Sparky.

[Scary Kitty]

Did someone say Sparky?

Here's a Sparkyrific motivational poster spam, all by our sadly-missed Reiko:

Spoiler:

[Anuna]

Now that the history HBO, or was it Showtime, comparisons are out of the way, back to our regularly scheduled Sparky.

I just LOVE how raw this moment is, and that' she's so honest with him, right there. *stares*

[TheLadyMore]

Elizabeth looks lie a deer in headlights

[Southern Red]

Elizabeth looks lie a deer in headlights

*puts tongue firmly in cheek* Looking at him will do that to you.

[JT-2]

Now that I've cooled myself down after reading the 'Nuna smut, onto part 2:

@JT -2 and Scary Kitty - you asked for Epiphany smut?

here you go.

Holy crap, girl! That was awesome! You get in their heads so wonderfully. And of course, there's nothing like your smut.

I reread Pride and Prejudice not too long ago and John is very much like Mr. Darcy. He doesn't talk a lot. He disdains the expected social jumping through hoops that's expected of him at times. He loves deeply and is self sacrificing. He's generous and courtly. I could go on.

I don't see John and Elizabeth as More and Katherine but your love for the Tudors must have led you to study them in depth and you know much more about them. i can't see John as the "Utopia" sort considering his comments about the pansy wannabes in Epiphany.

Yes I can definitely see the John/Darcy comparison. And man, if Colin Firth and Joe were ever on screen together, fangirls would explode in squee!

That "pansy wannabes" comment always makes me laugh!

Agreed. It's one thing to compare them to fictional characters from other shows/books; that sort of thing is pretty common in literary analysis. But comparing them to real people... it starts treading close to RPF, and I do not like to go there. It's manipulating real people, and that's just wrong.

Yes. I'm not a fan of shows that fictionalize real people. I get aggravated when movies completely disregard history. I understand changing a few things around, but when they completely ignore fact then I get annoyed.

[Southern Red]

Now that I've cooled myself down after reading the 'Nuna smut, onto part 2:



Holy crap, girl! That was awesome! You get in their heads so wonderfully. And of course, there's nothing like your smut.



Yes I can definitely see the John/Darcy comparison. And man, if Colin Firth and Joe were ever on screen together, fangirls would explode in squee!

That "pansy wannabes" comment always makes me laugh!



Yes. I'm not a fan of shows that fictionalize real people. I get aggravated when movies completely disregard history. I understand changing a few things around, but when they completely ignore fact then I get annoyed.

I love the "pansy wannabes" too. Almost as much as "treehuggy". I think he said that in TOR too. I may be wrong. Anyway, he said it. Those sounded so very Joeish. I wonder how much input he had sometimes.

Gotta go. We're cooking fajitas. Only a couple of days late for Cinco de Mayo.

[JT-2]

I love the "pansy wannabes" too. Almost as much as "treehuggy". I think he said that in TOR too. I may be wrong. Anyway, he said it. Those sounded so very Joeish. I wonder how much input he had sometimes.

Gotta go. We're cooking fajitas. Only a couple of days late for Cinco de Mayo.

"Tree huggy" was in Echoes. It was explaining the stuff the Ancients were trying to do in the bio-lab. Ok it's probably sad that I know that off the top of my head.

Ooooh fajitas! Yum! Enjoy!