Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Yes, The Kindred was one of my favorites of the Season, I think. I really enjoyed how hard Rachel worked to show the audience Teyla's connection to Kanaan, because before it, I completely wasn't sold. But she seemed to try and impart those feelings as best she could and I felt convinced, if not entirely sold. It was at least evident how much it hurt Teyla that he was gone.

Definitely. And

Spoiler:

it'll be helped along even more early in Season 5 by how she keeps after Woolsey about getting Kanaan released from the refugee camp on the mainland where he and the rest of the surviving Athosians have been quarantined after their rescue. She totally wants Kanaan with her and Torren in Atlantis.

And Carson! *sigh* My heart broke a little at Rodney and Carson's convo about Elizabeth. And it was weird to see the confinement room before GITM.

*pets Carson* Although, I'm pretty sure that's the same isolation room we've seen in McKay and Mrs. Miller, among other episodes.

TLM--I think the fact that it ripped off BIS but went the other way. I mean, I can't even begin to describe how angry I was that they didn't think it would be shortsighted to suggest Rodney would spend 25 years only trying to send John back after all the bad crap had happened. How about finding a point in time to which you could send John to, um, I don't know--TELL THE GROUP NOT TO CREATE FRICKIN' MICHAEL IN THE FIRST PLACE? I mean, the possibilities were endless as to what Rodney could have done to fix time.

No kidding! I mean, at least give us a reason why it wouldn't have worked, like there was some sort of quirk in the needed kind of solar flare that would prevent John from being sent back to a point before he was sent forward in time. Something! Anything! Argh.

Not to mention how Sam's death alone was so anti-SG-1. Do we really believe--even those of us who didn't see every episode of SG1--that Sam would be by herself in command of the Phoenix? Where were her team? I couldn't believe they wrote that.

Yeah. I can see her sacrificing herself if it ever came to that, but damn, it would be with her teammates, going out in a blaze of glory to take down the bad guys.

I appreciated the connectivity, but I just couldn't believe it most of the time. So I spent the entire episode admiring how hot John looked, even with sand all over him. And I did actually like the McKeller. I guess I like them, IDK. I haven't seen Brainstorm yet.

Anyways, much more at my LJ if you want to hear my raves and rants.

I will add one thing--I did appreciate some of the parallelism. The connection to BIS WAS there, and I saw that. Having John in Stasis to save Atlantis and the galaxy was pretty cool, because that's a direct connection to what happened with Elizabeth. And the McKeller was so the reverse of Intruder! They even had coffee together in the mess.

LOL! Oh yeah, sandy!John was definitely hot. And I don't know why, but seeing him with that bandana over his face and his sunglasses covering his eyes made me giggle. Intergalactic outlaw, and all that.

McKeller in TLM was actually kinda cute. Brainstorm... ugh, you're gonna need some strong toothpaste to take the nasty taste of that one out of your mouth. (and it's times like this that we really need a puking smilie for the board)

[nogigglingmajor]

Hi all,

Here is a link to the photos and summary of the Stargate Con, written by my friend who is president of the scifi club at my uni. And yes, I'm Bethany that keeps getting mentioned. Enjoy...I know i sure as hell did!

http://users.tpg.com.au/adsl4vhb/Sta...rgate2010.html

[Anuna]

Guys, I ahve a few questions, regarding my second episode (namely, the John - menatl whump episode). First of all, may I suggest a title - "Shape of my heart" - yeah, I know it's poetic, but it came from this song - which suits John, I believe, especially the deeper, darker aspect of him ("I'm not a man of too many faces, the mask I wear is one").

Also, how badly am I allowed to injure him? Meaning, whump him physically?

Here is my idea:

Spoiler:

John is kidnapped and tortured, but not in order to give information - he is tortured in order to be broken and trained into an obedient slave. Yes, I've watched too much of "Legend of the Seeker", why do you ask? Pegasus should have its equivalent of Mord'Sith - without magical agiels, but a race that does the sam will breaking through sever whump routine. (they can still have pain inflicting weapons, similar to Goa'uld). I was thinking that this could be a good opportunity to foreshadow the new enemy race we'll be introducing in the season finale - they themselves could be the slave trainers, or they could have an entire race of followers (like Mord'Sith are esentially a race/order created with the ourpose of serving Lord Rahl), warriors that can inflict and stand great pain (physical pain) and can break another person's will and turn them into an enemy, who is essentially a perfect spy and a very dangerous threat to have around. They're dangerous because they're brain washed but still intelligent and still the people who they "used to be" only with a new mission and no fear of dying.

When they capture John, they quickly realize it won't be possible breaking him through physical pain and torture only, and that they have to break him mentally. Which allowes us to do a whump episode which includes a backstory, John's fears, issues, things he can't forgive himself for, and on the other hand, his team and Elizabeth are coming to rescue and we see Elizabeth being there for him through his recovery. We could learn following:

- more about John and how he became the person he is
- touch on his greatest fear - and why is that precisely (being abandoned!) his greates fear
- things he is not forgiving himself - Afghanistan, Sumner, Ford, Carson, Elizabeth - and why
- how he feels about Elizabeth's return and having her arund now
- we let the audience know that there is a new threat in Pegasus - only we don't tell them how big it is
- we explore Elizabeth/team relationship, show Elizabeth and Teyla friendship, explore how things work differently now, when she isn't a leader any more and can openly be worried about John and focused on him when he is in danger
- sparky moments! I totally wat a scene where he wakes up in infirmary and finds her by his side, and realizes "this one is real and she isn't going away". The team can walk in a bit later, but I want him to see her first, after he wakes up.

[Falcon Horus]

Hmm, that might be doable. Falcon, what does Claire think?

That it would be a fair compremise.

[Fionnait]

I appreciated the connectivity, but I just couldn't believe it most of the time. So I spent the entire episode admiring how hot John looked, even with sand all over him. And I did actually like the McKeller. I guess I like them, IDK. I haven't seen Brainstorm yet.

LOL! Oh yeah, sandy!John was definitely hot. And I don't know why, but seeing him with that bandana over his face and his sunglasses covering his eyes made me giggle. Intergalactic outlaw, and all that.

But we don't need TLM for that, do we? The Defiant One will do just fine:

Spoiler:

That it would be a fair compremise.

Whilst we're talking about hair colours... I want someone with a crazy hair colour appearing. Like blue. Can somebody include that in their episode?

[Anuna]

But we don't need TLM for that, do we? The Defiant One will do just fine:

Spoiler:

Whilst we're talking about hair colours... I want someone with a crazy hair colour appearing. Like blue. Can somebody include that in their episode?

Oooohhhhh, whumped John! *claps hands*

How about my new race of tortures having a crazy hair color?

[Fionnait]

Oooohhhhh, whumped John! *claps hands*

How about my new race of tortures having a crazy hair color?

That sounds good! Just not red, because we already have Wraith Queen red hair.

[Anuna]

No no, not red.

Speaking of red, has anyone seen SR?

[Southern Red]

Hi troops. It sounds like you've been busy working on SS6. All the ideas are great.

Anuna, I love the whump!John idea.

I like Kate better as a blonde also. Maybe I'm prejudiced but I like red hair only when it looks natural. I don't think her color was. It was too flat, but she'd work great as a strawberry blonde with some nice coppery highlights.

Eri, I'm glad you've finally watched S4. I never thought about it before but I'm willing to bet actually seeing Teyla's frantic search for Kanaan would change a lot of minds about that ship. And I suddenly understand why I've never understood why some people didn't think she cared about him. I didn't take into account that they may not have seen Kindred. She clearly wants him back.

On TLM, I thought a lot of John's reactions were way off and OOC. At the time I thought maybe it was Joe's acting choices that failed to sell it. Unusual for him to be so unfocused, but badwritingbadwritingbadwriting is a better explanation.

[Falcon Horus]

Whilst we're talking about hair colours... I want someone with a crazy hair colour appearing. Like blue. Can somebody include that in their episode?

Maybe something goes wrong whilst dyeing hair in Atlantis... a chemical reaction with something in the water....

[Southern Red]

No no, not red.

Speaking of red, has anyone seen SR?

*snort* You read minds now? I'm around. Just busy in RL.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Anuna, I love that idea you had. Sounds like it could make one hell of a sheppard episode.

[Anuna]

Anuna, I love that idea you had. Sounds like it could make one hell of a sheppard episode.

Hell would be the right word. Poor John. I have no mercy.

[Eri13]

Guys, I ahve a few questions, regarding my second episode (namely, the John - menatl whump episode). First of all, may I suggest a title - "Shape of my heart" - yeah, I know it's poetic, but it came from this song - which suits John, I believe, especially the deeper, darker aspect of him ("I'm not a man of too many faces, the mask I wear is one").

Also, how badly am I allowed to injure him? Meaning, whump him physically?

Here is my idea:

Spoiler:

John is kidnapped and tortured, but not in order to give information - he is tortured in order to be broken and trained into an obedient slave. Yes, I've watched too much of "Legend of the Seeker", why do you ask? Pegasus should have its equivalent of Mord'Sith - without magical agiels, but a race that does the sam will breaking through sever whump routine. (they can still have pain inflicting weapons, similar to Goa'uld). I was thinking that this could be a good opportunity to foreshadow the new enemy race we'll be introducing in the season finale - they themselves could be the slave trainers, or they could have an entire race of followers (like Mord'Sith are esentially a race/order created with the ourpose of serving Lord Rahl), warriors that can inflict and stand great pain (physical pain) and can break another person's will and turn them into an enemy, who is essentially a perfect spy and a very dangerous threat to have around. They're dangerous because they're brain washed but still intelligent and still the people who they "used to be" only with a new mission and no fear of dying.

When they capture John, they quickly realize it won't be possible breaking him through physical pain and torture only, and that they have to break him mentally. Which allowes us to do a whump episode which includes a backstory, John's fears, issues, things he can't forgive himself for, and on the other hand, his team and Elizabeth are coming to rescue and we see Elizabeth being there for him through his recovery. We could learn following:

- more about John and how he became the person he is
- touch on his greatest fear - and why is that precisely (being abandoned!) his greates fear
- things he is not forgiving himself - Afghanistan, Sumner, Ford, Carson, Elizabeth - and why
- how he feels about Elizabeth's return and having her arund now
- we let the audience know that there is a new threat in Pegasus - only we don't tell them how big it is
- we explore Elizabeth/team relationship, show Elizabeth and Teyla friendship, explore how things work differently now, when she isn't a leader any more and can openly be worried about John and focused on him when he is in danger
- sparky moments! I totally wat a scene where he wakes up in infirmary and finds her by his side, and realizes "this one is real and she isn't going away". The team can walk in a bit later, but I want him to see her first, after he wakes up.

I love the episode ideas, except my only objection is to the bad guys. I'd kinda like to keep the bad guys in "The Lost City" episodes completely unknown. Just to ramp up the tension and keep the audience guessing. I want readers to not have any idea what's coming.

I think you can do a stand-alone set of enemies that are similar to Mord-Sith, though. That stuff was brutal in the LOTS books to the point where it was cringe-worthy, so I imagine you could do a really excellent job with them here.

IDK about "Shape of My Heart" (though I love the song! Josh! *squees*). But it almost sounds fluffy for an episode that is most certainly not going to be fluffy. It feels like title-wise should be something, IDK, darker? Colder? However, that's just my opinion--I don't speak for everyone, so if everyone else likes it, it gets a thumbs up.

But we don't need TLM for that, do we? The Defiant One will do just fine:

Spoiler:

Whilst we're talking about hair colours... I want someone with a crazy hair colour appearing. Like blue. Can somebody include that in their episode?

I can also make the little non-English speaking aliens in "Found in Translation" with Blue Hair. Up to you guys.

Hi troops. It sounds like you've been busy working on SS6. All the ideas are great.

Anuna, I love the whump!John idea.

I like Kate better as a blonde also. Maybe I'm prejudiced but I like red hair only when it looks natural. I don't think her color was. It was too flat, but she'd work great as a strawberry blonde with some nice coppery highlights.

Eri, I'm glad you've finally watched S4. I never thought about it before but I'm willing to bet actually seeing Teyla's frantic search for Kanaan would change a lot of minds about that ship. And I suddenly understand why I've never understood why some people didn't think she cared about him. I didn't take into account that they may not have seen Kindred. She clearly wants him back.

On TLM, I thought a lot of John's reactions were way off and OOC. At the time I thought maybe it was Joe's acting choices that failed to sell it. Unusual for him to be so unfocused, but badwritingbadwritingbadwriting is a better explanation.

Yes, TK put a lot of Kanaan/Teyla into perspective for me and changed my view of that ship. I didn't object, but I didn't exactly see it, whereas now, particularly from Teyla's side, I see it, which was what mattered because Teyla is the one we know. Rachel was slam-bang in The Kindred, I applaud her for really doing a brilliant job of making that feel real and trying her best to show her love for him. It would have been easy to play that down but she didn't; I felt as a viewer that she was really trying to pull you into Teyla's despair.

John was just sort of there in TLM, but I don't wonder if that implausibility I saw was something other people felt. The episode just felt way out of the wheelhouse of the writing somehow. Almost Vegas-like in nature. Seriously, was the point? We learned nothing about our characters. The story was so poorly told there was no indication that John's disappearance significantly impacted people (if we had, we should have heard more about stuff like 'John Sheppard would want this' or 'I miss John.' We never heard that from anyone.)

It would have been easy to get them to that warehouse in a straightforward way, not this roundabout solar-flare-of-DOOM-time-travel-AU-lifestyle mishmash thing. Did we really have to tell John if he didn't rescue Teyla that the world as they know it would end? I don't think he needed anyone to tell him that. It wasn't like any of us, even Sparky shippers, would believe he WOULDN'T work his *** off trying to save her. She's his family, of course he's going to do whatever he can. At the end of the day, the time-travel thing was just a 70,700+ year long way of telling them where Michael was keeping Teyla.

And, in truth, it was a 70,700+ year-long trap!

*sigh* I'm going to stop thinking about it, it makes me angry. Now I have to get through S&R's 'scene' but after that I am looking forward to the rest of it, especially the mid-season 2 parter and Vegas.

[Fionnait]

I can also make the little non-English speaking aliens in "Found in Translation" with Blue Hair. Up to you guys.

What do you mean by making Anuna's baddies "unknown". Will we not see them or will we just know nothing about them? In the first case scenario it doesn't really make much sense to let them have blue hair, if we don't see them...