Announcement

**Southern Red** · 08 January 2010, 05:29 AM

I felt the need for a bit of analysis so I did this. I included any ship that I thought was being written/portrayed, not necessarily that it was successfully done. I left out any that weren't obvious or I can't remember. Editing is encouraged. Disagreement is welcome.

Spoiler:

**Probie** · 08 January 2010, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

I felt the need for a bit of analysis so I did this. I included any ship that I thought was being written/portrayed, not necessarily that it was successfully done. I left out any that weren't obvious or I can't remember. Editing is encouraged. Disagreement is welcome.

Spoiler:

Don't remember to see hints of J/T in "The Storm" and "First Contact" but I always saw friendship between them when I was an anti-shipper. Another topic I know.
Well, he tried everything. He kept the worst for the end:McKeller

**Eri13** · 08 January 2010, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

I felt the need for a bit of analysis so I did this. I included any ship that I thought was being written/portrayed, not necessarily that it was successfully done. I left out any that weren't obvious or I can't remember. Editing is encouraged. Disagreement is welcome.

Spoiler:

Originally posted by Probie View Post

Don't remember to see hints of J/T in "The Storm" and "First Contact" but I always saw friendship between them when I was an anti-shipper. Another topic.
Well, he tried all "ships".

I would probably add J/E to "The Gift" because I always see it there, with John's defending Elizabeth to Teyla, with Bates and that part at the end. I don't really consider The Storm's J/T scene as shippy--it's kinda necessary. I also don't consider anything shippy in The Return Part II. That entire second part felt kinda anesthetized of ship.

**drewandian** · 08 January 2010, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

I would probably add J/E to "The Gift" because I always see it there, with John's defending Elizabeth to Teyla, with Bates and that part at the end. I don't really consider The Storm's J/T scene as shippy--it's kinda necessary. I also don't consider anything shippy in The Return Part II. That entire second part felt kinda anesthetized of ship.

I agree with "The Gift"; which J/T scene in "The Storm" are we talking about (I'm drawing a total blank and the kids are watching The Backyardigans so I can't pop the DVD in)?

**Eri13** · 08 January 2010, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by drewandian View Post

I agree with "The Gift"; which J/T scene in "The Storm" are we talking about (I'm drawing a total blank and the kids are watching The Backyardigans so I can't pop the DVD in)?

What immediately comes to mind for me is the scene in the very beginning when they discover the storm. John is flying Teyla back from the mainland after visiting the Athosians and they see the storm on the horizon. They're having a pleasant conversation but it's not really shippy to me.

**drewandian** · 08 January 2010, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

What immediately comes to mind for me is the scene in the very beginning when they discover the storm. John is flying Teyla back from the mainland after visiting the Athosians and they see the storm on the horizon. They're having a pleasant conversation but it's not really shippy to me.

That's the only scene I could think of too...and it's certainly friendly, but not shippy imo either

**Southern Red** · 08 January 2010, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Probie View Post

Don't remember to see hints of J/T in "The Storm" and "First Contact" but I always saw friendship between them when I was an anti-shipper. Another topic I know.
Well, he tried everything. He kept the worst for the end:McKeller

In First Contact the long look between them when he tells her to stay behind could be considered shippy if you lean that way. In TS the beginning in the jumper. They are having an actual convo and she's close to him and leaning toward him. You know if it were Elizabeth we'd consider it shippy.

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

I would probably add J/E to "The Gift" because I always see it there, with John's defending Elizabeth to Teyla, with Bates and that part at the end. I don't really consider The Storm's J/T scene as shippy--it's kinda necessary. I also don't consider anything shippy in The Return Part II. That entire second part felt kinda anesthetized of ship.

I thought about The Gift but wanted someone else to say it first to be sure. We'll add that. I need to remove TRII. I got the scene over the campfire in the wrong ep. So no J/T in that one.

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

What immediately comes to mind for me is the scene in the very beginning when they discover the storm. John is flying Teyla back from the mainland after visiting the Athosians and they see the storm on the horizon. They're having a pleasant conversation but it's not really shippy to me.

That's what I was thinking. Maybe we need to define what's meant by shippy. My loose definition is that it is whatever you think it is. If viewers ship a couple, they see ship where others don't. Example: J/E in The Gift.

Revised list:

Spoiler:

And notice that after the trouble he got into with the hug, Gero still wrote the desksitting scene in Coup. Curiouser and curiouser.

**drewandian** · 08 January 2010, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

In First Contact the long look between them when he tells her to stay behind could be considered shippy if you lean that way. In TS the beginning in the jumper. They are having an actual convo and she's close to him and leaning toward him. You know if it were Elizabeth we'd consider it shippy.

I thought about The Gift but wanted someone else to say it first to be sure. We'll add that. I need to remove TRII. I got the scene over the campfire in the wrong ep. So no J/T in that one.

That's what I was thinking. Maybe we need to define what's meant by shippy. My loose definition is that it is whatever you think it is. If viewers ship a couple, they see ship where others don't. Example: J/E in The Gift.

Revised list:

Spoiler:

And notice that after the trouble he got into with the hug, Gero still wrote the desksitting scene in Coup. Curiouser and curiouser.

maybe...maybe not...maybe I just spent too much time on marching band buses and expect people, when in a moving vehicle type thing, to be more prone to leaning into the person they're talking to if they're standing up.

this is going to sound really dumb, probably, but when something particularly shippy happens on-screen I get butterflies in my tummy. there weren't any butterflies for me at the beginning of "The Storm" (and I've gotten the shippy butterfly thing with J/T a couple of time, even though I don't actually ship them)

**Probie** · 08 January 2010, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

In First Contact the long look between them when he tells her to stay behind could be considered shippy if you lean that way. In TS the beginning in the jumper. They are having an actual convo and she's close to him and leaning toward him. You know if it were Elizabeth we'd consider it shippy.

Not necessary. If consider it shippy, all the episodes are J/E shippy. They are "glue" to each other. Maybe I need to re-watch this episode. "First Contact", I admit it can be shippy.
Like I said before I never had shippy butterfly thing with J/T (except for S and R) even with J/E before the season 4. Now butterfly is everywhere when I saw the first seasons.lol I will quote Eri (after drew), I'm anesthetized when we talk about this ship. Moderators, I know I'm OT. I stop talking.lol

**Southern Red** · 08 January 2010, 08:19 AM

Okay, so you guys seem to be saying that merely having a convo and looking at each other more than usual is not shippy or was not written as being shippy. Then on that basis, I should remove TS for J/T.

Then on the same basis, I'd have to remove GUP for Sparky. Arguments to the contrary?

**Lythisrose** · 08 January 2010, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Okay, so you guys seem to be saying that merely having a convo and looking at each other more than usual is not shippy or was not written as being shippy. Then on that basis, I should remove TS for J/T.

Then on the same basis, I'd have to remove GUP for Sparky. Arguments to the contrary?

*peeking in* um, I'm watching GUP right now and they just had the cutest little interchange where he's convincing her to use the jumper and a grappling cable to rescue Rodney. He literally bounces while talking to her and she certainly has a twinkle in her eye when talking to him.
I don't know exactly how to explain it, but there is definitely something going on between these two.

**Probie** · 08 January 2010, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Okay, so you guys seem to be saying that merely having a convo and looking at each other more than usual is not shippy or was not written as being shippy. Then on that basis, I should remove TS for J/T.

Then on the same basis, I'd have to remove GUP for Sparky. Arguments to the contrary?

I'll do the stupid girl again. "Convo" means...?

In GUP, there are looks and smiles and...I'm not objective.lol
Honestly, I don't remember a scene between John and Teyla very shippy in the Storm but maybe I'm wrong. Is there a long look there? *Dory is back*.
In general "looking at each other more than usual" is shippy. But some scenes are not shippy even if there is a "look". *trying to find an example with John and Elizabeth* Ok let me think a second. i will be back with a scene.lol

**Probie** · 08 January 2010, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Lythisrose View Post

*peeking in* um, I'm watching GUP right now and they just had the cutest little interchange where he's convincing her to use the jumper and a grappling cable to rescue Rodney. He literally bounces while talking to her and she certainly has a twinkle in her eye when talking to him.
I don't know exactly how to explain it, but there is definitely something going on between these two.

Exactly! It's difficult to say when a look is shippy or not. It's just obvious and we can't explain it.
Even Pierre Bernard saw the shippy looks between John and Elizabeth during the first season and teased Torri with it. It's obvious.

**Southern Red** · 08 January 2010, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Lythisrose View Post

*peeking in* um, I'm watching GUP right now and they just had the cutest little interchange where he's convincing her to use the jumper and a grappling cable to rescue Rodney. He literally bounces while talking to her and she certainly has a twinkle in her eye when talking to him.
I don't know exactly how to explain it, but there is definitely something going on between these two.

That's the scene I was thinking about. Plus the chocolate/peanut butter thing. Sounds shippy to me. So GUP stays.

Originally posted by Probie View Post

I'll do the stupid girl again. "Convo" means...?

In GUP, there are looks and smiles and...I'm not objective.lol
Honestly, I don't remember a scene between John and Teyla very shippy in the Storm but maybe I'm wrong. Is there a long look there? *Dory is back*.
In general "looking at each other more than usual" is shippy. But some scenes are not shippy even if there is a "look". *trying to find an example with John and Elizabeth* Ok let me think a second. i will be back with a scene.lol

Convo is short for conversation.

Unless you thought John and Teyla flying together in the jumper and talking about the Athosians was shippy, then there wasn't one. No long looks. But my point was that some people think it was shippy. It's a matter of how you feel about them. And the same is true of Sparky. I try to be too objective, I know. Which is one thing I hate about myself. LOL

Originally posted by Probie View Post

Exactly! It's difficult to say when a look is shippy or not. It's just obvious and we can't explain it.
Even Pierre Bernard saw the shippy looks between John and Elizabeth during the first season and teased Torri with it. It's obvious.

Who? What did he say?

**Eri13** · 08 January 2010, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Okay, so you guys seem to be saying that merely having a convo and looking at each other more than usual is not shippy or was not written as being shippy. Then on that basis, I should remove TS for J/T.

Then on the same basis, I'd have to remove GUP for Sparky. Arguments to the contrary?

This is just me personally, but to qualify as 'ship' for me, I have to see something 'personal' in the exchange.

That's why I got sold on Sparky, because so much of what J/E shared toed beyond the line of business into 'personal'. I wasn't trying to ship anyone when I started watching, but after a while all those balcony scenes and looks just kinda piled up. It was an easy ship to accept, and you know me--I'm pretty canon-happy.

There are definitely Sparky moments I don't consider shippy per se. The GUP one I do because they're having way too much fun when poor Rodney's stuck dying in a sinking jumper. They're almost flirting and their humor infects each other.

But...and I'll probably get reamed by this *puts up shields* I don't consider the balcony scene from Rising shippy. I consider it a good J/E moment, but not Sparky, if Sparky is the ship. It was about business. It was a good argument on John's part and a good one on Liz's. But there wasn't sexual tension beneath it, it was two different viewpoints trying to explain themselves and Elizabeth wins out by virtue of the fact she's the boss at that point. But no huffing and puffing and lingering looks. Nothing 'personal'. In fact, many scenes in Season 1 I don't consider 'shippy per se'.

Time also plays a factor, as well as what's been built upon in canon. I think The Eye plays a big part in why I took to Sparky more. You don't have an episode like that demonstrating John's desperation to that degree with many other characters. Perhaps Sateda for Ronon, or GUP or Doppelganger for McKay (I'd say more Doppelganger for McShep because John's more angsty there) and maybe The Ark for Teyla.

But those are all later episodes, whereas the The Eye takes front and center eight or nine episodes in. Whether you consider his reaction to what happened to her romantic or platonic it's still obvious that he cares about her a lot--especially considering he doesn't have the same fears or anger over what's happening to Rodney, who's still captive. Essentially TE establishes a personal connection between them which many scenes going forward have as a backdrop. And hence the arguments in THZ, for example, become more shippy because Elizabeth is angry he broke her trust, and he's angry because she won't let him protect her. Or his defending her in The Gift--with TE as a backdrop it looks a little like he's defending her from being attacked either professionally or personally.

Does any of that make sense? Maybe it does in my brain...

Announcement

Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment